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Author Topic: Lightning Network Observer  (Read 12865 times)
Rath_
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February 08, 2022, 03:02:57 PM
Merited by fillippone (4), JayJuanGee (1)
 #121

if you speak to rath_ he will tell you his LN wallet does not have privacy, his wallet announces his channel balance changes to a central DNS/explorer/whole network so that everyone can see whats available to make routes.

Oh, wow. Slow down for a moment. I have never said that.

You should take a look at at least one paper describing the probing attack on the Lightning Network.

LN nodes gossip about channels available for routing and their total capacities. To issue a (multi-hop) payment, the sender creates a route based on its local knowledge of the graph. As local channel balances are not public, payments often fail due to insufficient balance at an intermediary hop. In that case, the payment is attempted along multiple routes until it succeeds. This constitutes a privacy-efficiency tradeoff: hidden balances improve privacy but hinder routing efficiency.

As for the "central DNS", you are ignoring the fact that nodes use DNS bootstrapping (just like Bitcoin nodes) to discover peers. Lightning nodes talk not only to their channel partners but also to other participants of the network. You fail to acknowledge that even though you can easily check it on your own by either setting up your own node or running a non-custodial wallet like Electrum.

oh and rath_ thinks even if i set my C to be private, he can still see
A-B-C-D-E
       \
       W-X-Y-Z

all because HIS wallet defaults and forces his channels to be public so he does not understand that privacy was and is possible.

Yes, I could still see WX, XY and YZ channels as you assume that they are public.

and instead can build routes without testing them. the flaw of this convenience of saving a few hundred bytes of data. is ofcourse lack of privacy, and also the reason he had a 70% fail rate for payments because he wasnt testing routes before trying to push payments

There is no other way to test if the payment will go through other than to actually send it. You fail to prove which "private message" in our opinion is actually supposed to do that. You will very likely come up with another non spec-complaint message.

For example, we suspect which edges might be able to forward a payment because their capacity seems big enough. But we can’t be certain unless we try it out or ask the channel owners directly. Even if we were able to ask the channel owners directly, their balance might change by the time we have asked others, computed a path, constructed an onion and send it along
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February 08, 2022, 03:20:53 PM
Last edit: February 08, 2022, 03:44:08 PM by franky1
 #122

1. people can use invoice uri that contain ip or tor addresses.
your reliance on your wallet having a dns bootstrap is a privacy concern.. for YOU
the 'convenience' of not needing ip/tor addresses in an invoice. is then the privacy loss by preferring a network map


2. you think the only messages involved in a LN are
node announce
channel_update
update_add_htlc
update_fulfill_htlc,
update_fail_htlc,
update_fail_malformed_htlc
commitment_signed
plus a few others.
YOU think there are only under a dozen message types and YOU think all payment messages involve "update_add_htlc"

in other topics i showed you there are like 500 different message types(spec compliant) and upto 65,000 custom, and each of those types can be used for a multitude of things
even simple messages like ping and pong can add payloads of different information, well outside of your "update_add_htlc" mantra where you think everything is done inside

3. maybe the many ways many wallets do it, is not spec compliant to YOUR wallet. but your wallet after all is not interested in privacy, hense why you think your wallet is limited to only a dozen message types.

4. when i go private it appears to you as "trampolining" and your map becomes broke because you cant see C. thus you if you were Z could not arrange a payment to A via your DNS bootstrap.

but other people with other wallets could. because they dont just create a route based on some bootstrap map, but by actually talking to peers

EG W does not tell X about C because WC is private. so X cant tell y and Y cannot tell Z .
so you as Z will just see Z-Y-X-W but not -C..
yet actually talking outside of the 'channel_announce' and 'channel_update' you can actually walk a path using other methods.


5. funny part is. if you really wanted to do some positive real feature promoting of LN. you could realise that the lack of a consensus means that LN does not need default, forced, public compliance. but hey, you prefer the forced default public compliance that has a 70% fail rate.. strange

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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February 08, 2022, 05:49:56 PM
Merited by fillippone (1), n0nce (1)
 #123

As I don't want to help you derail another topic, I replied in the Is LN Bitcoin? franky1: About scaling, on-chain and off-chain thread. If you are interested in continuing the discussion, please reply there.
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February 14, 2022, 11:55:16 AM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 05:25:49 PM by fillippone
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), n0nce (1)
 #124

When I listen to Jack Mallers I always feel that thrill of being alive in the exact moment when a new financial sistem it is being bootstrapped and being put in place for the whole human kind:


Quote

WBD460 - Orange Pilling the IMF with @jackmallers. We discuss:
- Conversations with Bezos and Facebook
- The famous peanut story
- How #Bitcoin BTC  levels the playing field
- The global implications of Lightning
whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/orange…




90 minutes worth listening to.

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February 20, 2022, 08:40:01 AM
Merited by fillippone (3), Symmetrick (2), n0nce (1)
 #125

i support the lightning network since a few days with my own node now too and if there are interested guys i would open a channel with some of you Grin


https://twitter.com/cryptocygan/status/1492930549861826563

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n0nce
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February 20, 2022, 11:07:35 AM
Last edit: February 20, 2022, 11:38:39 AM by n0nce
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #126

i support the lightning network since a few days with my own node now too and if there are interested guys i would open a channel with some of you Grin


https://twitter.com/cryptocygan/status/1492930549861826563
These little tiny Raspberry Pi PC enclosures are so cute! Cheesy
Sure, what kind of size are we looking at? Would recommend a circular (or triangle) setup with multiple users like @Rath_, BlackHatCoiner and anyone else who wants to join!

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February 20, 2022, 01:06:24 PM
 #127


These little tiny Raspberry Pi PC enclosures are so cute! Cheesy
Sure, what kind of size are we looking at? Would recommend a circular (or triangle) setup with multiple users like @Rath_, BlackHatCoiner and anyone else who wants to join!

i already have an open channel with Rath_
i could contribute 0.005 - but can also provide contributions from 0.01 if necessary Smiley

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n0nce
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February 20, 2022, 01:16:01 PM
 #128


These little tiny Raspberry Pi PC enclosures are so cute! Cheesy
Sure, what kind of size are we looking at? Would recommend a circular (or triangle) setup with multiple users like @Rath_, BlackHatCoiner and anyone else who wants to join!

i already have an open channel with Rath_
i could contribute 0.005 - but can also provide contributions from 0.01 if necessary Smiley
Sounds good - let's see who else would be interested! Dual-funded or even circular channels are pretty useful, I think.

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February 23, 2022, 02:04:23 PM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 01:57:47 PM by fillippone
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #129

Paolo Ardoino seems quite happy with LN usage at Bitfinex.



I wouldn’t have expected such a growth, 0.1 BTC on average looks like a lot.
Nice to see.


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February 23, 2022, 02:45:05 PM
Merited by fillippone (3), JayJuanGee (1)
 #130

I wouldn’t have expected such a growth, 0.1 BTC on average looks like a lot.
Nice to see.
Total transactions increase as well as total value transacted in Lightning Network. It's good together with growth of channels, network capacity, channel capacity in Lightning network charts and with the higher demand on Bitcoin, Lightning Network will be sure one of best solutions for Bitcoin users now.

They can use other alternatives like Segwit address, Taproot but Lightning Network saves their transaction cost a lot.

Learn about Lightning Network with Mastering the Lightning Network: A Second Layer Blockchain Protocol for Instant Bitcoin Payments 1st Edition

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February 28, 2022, 05:25:18 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2022, 10:43:24 PM by fillippone
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #131

Someone built a KYC free exchange on the Lighting network:

Everyone says we need easy and cheap markets for non-KYC BTC... So I have done this.

Quote

**TL;TR:** Bitcoin is slowly being captured by the tight grip on the fiat on/off ramps. We need convenient, fast and cheap markets for non-KYC bitcoin. I have worked my ass off for two months to create an easy and private P2P exchange that uses solely lightning hold invoices. It is called RoboSats and I believe it can potentially rival centralized exchanges in ease of use and fees, while being totally private and having a close to custody-less pipeline. You can use it from your smartphone right now: it is straightforward to use even for the very noob. The platform is fully open source and will always be. It works quite well, but it is experimental: read the info and trade only small amounts. Open it now with Tor Browser: [Onion Link](http://robosats6tkf3eva7x2voqso3a5wcorsnw34jveyxfqi2fu7oyheasid.onion/)

## Background

One of the main threats for the Bitcoin network and its users is the ability of a few entities to control the fiat on/off-ramps. The tight grip on them allows for censorship and surveillance by linking funds with identities and strips the freedom away from Bitcoin. While there exists several peer-to-peer alternatives to centralized exchanges, these are rather technical, slow and costly. Most users still prefer the convenience of a centralized exchange at the cost of their privacy and a difficult initial setup (submit passport, selfie-video, etc). Things do not look too well for a truly free Bitcoin ecosystem.

However, there are opportunities too. Using the Lightning Network it might very well be possible to create a very user friendly, safe, fast and cheap peer-to-peer market. By using hold invoices as fidelity bonds and trade escrows, trust/security can be maximized. It will never be as secure as an on-chain escrow. But one can dream that an open p2p market like that could rival the ease of use of centralized exchanges and have very low fees too; yet, with minimal privacy invasion and a close to custody-less trade pipeline.

<…>

It looks like a BISQ like exchange over LN, with added privacy then.

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March 09, 2022, 10:47:16 PM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 01:43:46 PM by fillippone
 #132

Giacomo Zucco had a talk about LN and Privacy at Lightning Hack Day, INSTANBUL 2022


LIGHTNING PRIVACY – LIGHTNING HACK DAY, INSTANBUL 2022



Very interesting content wittingly exposed, as always with Giacomo Zucco.





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March 18, 2022, 03:21:30 PM
Last edit: May 15, 2023, 01:30:44 PM by fillippone
 #133

Lightning network ecosystem is growing organically:

The Bitcoin Lightning Network ecosystem is growing

Quote

The public capacity on the Bitcoin Lightning Network grew exponentially from April through September in 2021, with an annualized growth rate of more than 700 percent. Since, public capacity growth has been more subdued, only growing at a 48 percent annualized rate since the end of September.




An interesting analysis.

Of course a lot of LN growth has been driven by exchanges node, but there’s more outside.

Registration to arcane is free, just use a trowaway mail.

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March 19, 2022, 07:16:46 AM
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #134

It has now grown substantially with more people becoming aware about it and we see regular growth on the LN with bitcoin processing capacity being increased with time and adoption.


According to this report it has now reached 3534 bitcoin capacity another ATH this year which is again positive sign of growth.

According to glassnode data also it is now more then double in past 8 months only

July 2021 - 1600 btc
March - 3500+ bitcoins

Want to ask about the clarity on this method in which Bitcoin magzine has claimed that it can process 1000 times as much transactions as Visa can so is this true?

Read it here: Twitter

But you will see much more updates and growth within small period of time and solving lot of scalable problems.

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March 26, 2022, 09:36:09 AM
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #135

and the number of Bitcoins continues to rise on the lightning network ... also the number of nodes and channels is very remarkable and pleasing


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March 26, 2022, 11:51:31 AM
 #136

and the number of Bitcoins continues to rise on the lightning network ... also the number of nodes and channels is very remarkable and pleasing


Do you have an API for this? I'd like to hang something fun on my wall; recently acquired one of these LED matrices.
I'd probably have it switch between BTC amount in circulation and dollar valuation as well as LN info such as what you've got in that dashboard type image.


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March 26, 2022, 12:41:46 PM
 #137

When does Lightening become available for everyone to use? Am sure when this becomes available or integrated for all, some altcoins will just die. It will make the transaction fees from exchanges ineligible
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March 26, 2022, 01:27:20 PM
Merited by fillippone (3), JayJuanGee (1)
 #138

When does Lightening become available for everyone to use? Am sure when this becomes available or integrated for all, some altcoins will just die. It will make the transaction fees from exchanges ineligible
It's already! If you want a quick, easy setup and immediately be able to use it, I recommend to download https://breez.technology/ on your phone.
If you want more control, better privacy and better help the network, I recommend to follow my guide on how to set up your own full-fledged Bitcoin Node with Lightning on it as well.

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 #139


Do you have an API for this? I'd like to hang something fun on my wall; recently acquired one of these LED matrices.


i can't help you there atm. but if i get more info i would post it here.

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March 26, 2022, 05:21:48 PM
Merited by BitcoinGirl.Club (2), cygan (1), dkbit98 (1)
 #140


Do you have an API for this? I'd like to hang something fun on my wall; recently acquired one of these LED matrices.


i can't help you there atm. but if i get more info i would post it here.
I just had a look online, seems it's an iOS app called 'BASIO'. Grin


However, there's this public API for:
  • Mean LN channel size
  • Median LN channel size
  • LN capacity
  • # LN channels
  • # LN nodes

It's not the one the app seems to use. https://api.glassnode.com/v1/metrics/lightning/network_capacity_sum?a=btc returns:
Code:
[{"t":1645833600,"v":3454.18964184},{"t":1645920000,"v":3462.09444535},{"t":1646006400,"v":3452.9620351},{"t":1646092800,"v":3451.17943666},{"t":1646179200,"v":3452.60892108},{"t":1646265600,"v":3458.29277546},{"t":1646352000,"v":3469.17342262},{"t":1646438400,"v":3474.35490982},{"t":1646524800,"v":3479.46103892},{"t":1646611200,"v":3485.40261693},{"t":1646697600,"v":3495.51674819},{"t":1646784000,"v":3502.54781951},{"t":1646870400,"v":3517.89318252},{"t":1646956800,"v":3523.82731644},{"t":1647043200,"v":3534.09174852},{"t":1647129600,"v":3534.89017331},{"t":1647216000,"v":3540.45759254},{"t":1647302400,"v":3527.3297414},{"t":1647388800,"v":3538.52660487},{"t":1647475200,"v":3551.22349799},{"t":1647561600,"v":3555.29658047},{"t":1647648000,"v":3576.57044549},{"t":1647734400,"v":3570.1382307},{"t":1647820800,"v":3569.46816784},{"t":1647907200,"v":3559.04619983},{"t":1647993600,"v":3563.61007407},{"t":1648080000,"v":3568.38432668},{"t":1648166400,"v":3561.40869792}]

So a slightly lower number. Maybe it's the 1ML API, seems closer.

It can be used using: https://1ml.com/statistics?json=true - I think I'll use that for my code. New weekend project, I guess. Grin

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