Is Bitcointalk.org losing user base?

[Welsh]

We know most forum users have different goals to join this forum, there are only some users who are really interested in getting to know bitcoin technically while others are bounty hunters, traders, gamblers and spammers and other. If bounties and signature campaign are removed or banned, the user base will decline rapidly. I am very sure of that.

Whether or not that is a positive or negative thing is subjective. I'm sure there are users here hoping that the community rids of the spam issue that signature campaigns bring, and go back to a more tight knitted community, while others are probably hoping for more, and more active users so that there's more potential to earn.

[1714062386]

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[aysg76]

I guess this thread can be read in parallel to this one:

What Would Be Your Reason to Leave Bitcointalk?

Asking current members why they would leave the forum could hint us what led past users to walk the same path...

There maybe some reasons for members leaving this forum but as far i am concerned this forum is my top priority and best source of my learning and not going to leave it anytime soon and working to encourage my known persons to have a look on this forum which can open new doors for them to crypto world.

[skarais]

Intrigued by the number of merit distribution since several merit source were added, I took the time to make a little comparison from January to July 2021. Here's the graph.

Based on the data I obtained from the Merit Dashboard, it can be seen that since the addition of merit sources and merit bank, the distribution of merit throughout July has increased by almost 100% compared to June. Of course this is quite good even though the percentage increase in senders is still below 16%. I'm not really sure if the user base is growing any further because of this increase, but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle. The user base may be able to grow given the rise in bitcoin's price so far could have an impact on it.

[paulsonnumismatics]

Interesting, I just sorta came back. Any link that can explain the whole system? ty

Intrigued by the number of merit distribution since several merit source were added, I took the time to make a little comparison from January to July 2021. Here's the graph.

Based on the data I obtained from the Merit Dashboard, it can be seen that since the addition of merit sources and merit bank, the distribution of merit throughout July has increased by almost 100% compared to June. Of course this is quite good even though the percentage increase in senders is still below 16%. I'm not really sure if the user base is growing any further because of this increase, but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle. The user base may be able to grow given the rise in bitcoin's price so far could have an impact on it.

[skarais]

Interesting, I just sorta came back. Any link that can explain the whole system? ty

YEPS, you can search for something about merit statistics on the Merit Dashboard or you can also use the merit statistics. I use the Merit Dashboard more often to find data on merit statistics, including post statistics per local board. Use whichever you think is appropriate, I still use the first option.

[Findingnemo]

Intrigued by the number of merit distribution since several merit source were added, I took the time to make a little comparison from January to July 2021. Here's the graph.

Based on the data I obtained from the Merit Dashboard, it can be seen that since the addition of merit sources and merit bank, the distribution of merit throughout July has increased by almost 100% compared to June. Of course this is quite good even though the percentage increase in senders is still below 16%. I'm not really sure if the user base is growing any further because of this increase, but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle. The user base may be able to grow given the rise in bitcoin's price so far could have an impact on it.

Recently we can witness more and more newbies are entering the forum and trying to bring some contribution in the race if merit earning which is good to some extent because they are trying to bring something new but surely there is a drop in the real discussion lately especially after the people who can't run with the merit system, probably most of them were account farmers.

[Welsh]

Recently we can witness more and more newbies are entering the forum and trying to bring some contribution in the race if merit earning which is good to some extent because they are trying to bring something new but surely there is a drop in the real discussion lately especially after the people who can't run with the merit system, probably most of them were account farmers.

Loss of quantity that is replaced by quality isn't a bad thing in my opinion. Users come, and go, but we all stick around for the discussions. I would prefer to have less quality discussions, than having the place drowned out because of the abundance of poor quality discussions. At the moment, I think the forum is somewhat in between that metric, since there's definitely discussions here which aren't particularly of good quality.

I'm not really sure if the user base is growing any further because of this increase, but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle. The user base may be able to grow given the rise in bitcoin's price so far could have an impact on it.

While you might not see immediate effects, I do believe it's quite clear that the easier it is for users to rank up, and progress the more likely they'll stick around. Ignoring the account farmers which have an incentive to rank up, ranking up is progression, and as we know progression is a motivating factor, so if merit distribution increases, so will the likelihood of users sticking around.

[Pmalek]

but what matters most is that more users are involved in the merit distribution cycle.

And even more users should get involved. I still come across members who insist on hoarding and not distributing merits to others. I found a merit-worthy post a few hours ago. I did my usual check to see if that member gives out merits, and I discovered that he has received over 80 merits, but he hasn't sent a single one! I didn't give him anything after that.

I suggested recently that we could remind those who don't give out merits that the system wasn't created for people to only be on the receiving end. If other users stopped giving merits to such users, I am sure some of them would change their behavior. What I am suggesting might be controversial, but let's compare the forum to an island with limited resources. Every time someone says or does something the community likes, the other inhabitants award that person with a piece of that limited resource. The only problem is that two inhabitants keep getting their share of the rewards, but they never give anyone else the same even if they could. The resource becomes rarer and rarer while two pricks keep bags of it in their cellar. Do you think the community should keep rewarding them even if their contributions deserve it if the resource will never again enter the economy? I would say no.   

[LoyceV]

I still come across members who insist on hoarding and not distributing merits to others. I found a merit-worthy post a few hours ago. I did my usual check to see if that member gives out merits, and I discovered that he has received over 80 merits, but he hasn't sent a single one! I didn't give him anything after that.

And here I am, hoarding more than 1000 sMerit
If a user doesn't send sMerit, that doesn't stop me from Meriting them when it's deserved. Hoarding still beats sending it to the wrong posts.

let's compare the forum to an island with limited resources.

Merit can be as limited or abundant as theymos wants.

[Pmalek]

And here I am, hoarding more than 1000 sMerit

You know very well that's not the same thing
You have more than 1000 sMerits because you are a merit source and your monthly allocation is probably a few hundreds source merits. It takes you a long time to empty that bag and get to your personal sMerits. That's because you have so much, not because you aren't giving it out regularly. You are also the most merited member on the forum, which keeps the stash always high. Not to mention the fact that you are part human and part alien tech posting miracle.  

Merit can be as limited or abundant as theymos wants.

True, but unless things change, we are stuck to having to receive 2 merits to be able to have 1 sMerit to give out. Everyone should chip in to keep the engine rolling. 

[KingsDen]

If a user doesn't send sMerit, that doesn't stop me from Meriting them when it's deserved. Hoarding still beats sending it to the wrong posts.

Imo, hoarding merits is not a good practice and will not promote the healthiness of the forum. Merit hoarding defeats two laws;
1. The natural law of giving: This law believes that "a giver never lacks", he that gives should recieve, vice versa.
2. The law of saturation: If a user keeps receiving merits without giving out, there should be a limit to which he/she will no longer recieve merits unless he begins to give out. If this law is applied by Theymos, the talk of merit hoarding will be a past.

I found a merit-worthy post a few hours ago. I did my usual check to see if that member gives out merits, and I discovered that he has received over 80 merits, but he hasn't sent a single one! I didn't give him anything after that.   

You know humans are good at predicting the unpredictable. Maybe the hoarder might be thinking that in the future, the merits might not be what it is today, maybe it can turn to something like a token that will have monetary value, hence the essence of hoarding 

However, the practice of merit hoarding is a form of merit abuse which can result to misuse of merit in the future (merit selling, meriting alts).
So, it should be frowned at especially when a non merit source does it.

[Pmalek]

2. The law of saturation: If a user keeps receiving merits without giving out, there should be a limit to which he/she will no longer recieve merits unless he begins to give out. If this law is applied by Theymos, the talk of merit hoarding will be a past.

I don't believe theymos will make any significant changes to the merit system. Limiting someone on how much they can receive would be a drastic measure in my opinion. Instead, the community can do their part just like they do with scammers or account sellers. There are no rules that forces users to award posts with merits, but there are also no rules to selling Bitcointalk accounts or scamming someone and we know what happens with those people and their accounts if they are discovered. The sanction for those who don't send sMerits could be simple. You aren't going to get any because it's a waste of sMerits giving it to you when all you do is keep them for yourself.

You know humans are good at predicting the unpredictable. Maybe the hoarder might be thinking that in the future, the merits might not be what it is today, maybe it can turn to something like a token that will have monetary value, hence the essence of hoarding 

That's just another reason not to award them with more if you ask me. 

[DdmrDdmr]

I tend to award merits regardless of their meriting habits/hoarding. I know a case or two on my local board that have a ratio of sent/generated below 10%, having received over 100 merits, but I prefer to merit their posts if they are worthy, even if it is just to mark something that might be interesting for others to read.

Some minor stats on the matter:

In general, there are 316 profiles that currently (as of last Friday) have:
-   Generated over (or equal to) 10 sMerits
-   Have been active or semi-active (logged-in over the past 90 days – that excludes Satoshi, Hal, etc.)
-   Have a ratio of sent/generated <= 10%

On aggregate, those 316 profiles have generated 10.470 sMerits (besides whatever airdropped amount they had), and given out only 234 sMerits.

236 of those profiles have never sent any sMerits.

There top cases have generated over 500 sMerits, and sent under 40 sMerits each.

[Daniel91]

I tend to award merits regardless of their meriting habits/hoarding. I know a case or two on my local board that have a ratio of sent/generated below 10%, having received over 100 merits, but I prefer to merit their posts if they are worthy, even if it is just to mark something that might be interesting for others to read.

Some minor stats on the matter:

In general, there are 316 profiles that currently (as of last Friday) have:
-   Generated over 10 sMerits
-   Have been active or semi-active (logged-in over the past 90 days – that excludes Satoshi, Hal, etc.)
-   Have a ratio of sent/generated <= 10%

On aggregate, those 316 profiles have generated 10.470 sMerits (besides whatever airdropped amount they had), and given out only 234 sMerits.

236 of those profiles have never sent any sMerits.

There top cases have generated over 500 sMerits, and sent under 40 sMerits each.

Very interesting statistics, I wasn't aware of it.
I guess some members just don't have the habit of using the merits on this forum, which is a shame because it's the perfect tool to show some forum member an appreciation for the quality of the post he wrote.
In this way, new members are further motivated to work harder and write better.
Nevertheless, no one can of course be forced to use all the functionalities of this forum.
On the Croatian part of the forum until recently we had a problem that we had a limited number of available merits for quality local posts, which has now finally changed after the promotion of new merit sources.
I also give the merits for quality posts, which contribute to the forum.

[_BlackStar]

236 of those profiles have never sent any sMerits.

If I belong to one of the 236 profiles you mentioned then right in this thread I just spent 4 sMerits for 4 different users including you and it's because of the posts I think they deserve.

Based on some opinion posts I've read, none of the users have said that hoarding sMerit is good and I can also clearly read when trying to send sMerit that "There is no point in hoarding sMerit; keeping it yourself does not benefit you, and we reserve the right to decay unused sMerit in the future.". Supposedly when users get merit, they should also issue it on other users' posts that they think are worthy. I don't think it's too difficult to find a suitable post, but due to differences in perception and knowledge between users, it is still possible for the desired quality standard to be different.

[DdmrDdmr]

<…> If I belong to one of the 236 profiles you mentioned <…>.

Nope. One of the criteria I used was having generated over (or equal to) 10 sMerits.

I figure that some people are really not that interested in the Merit System, which is understandable, and therefore barely award sMerits. That doesn’t mean that their posts are not merit worthy providing the content is good enough. After all, the idea is to merit the post based on its content (although the poster himself may also influence the outcome).

Both positions are probably fine though (taking into account whether the merited-to-be merits others or hoards). Sometimes the amount of available sMerits may bring in other factors into consideration when meriting, and the one being discussed is one of them. Others may take into consideration rank, personal likes/grudges, affinity, and so forth. These lateral criteria, which surpass the post’s content itself, are part of each one’s subjectivity, and diversity in criteria is what’s to be expected.

[Arvin01]

The merit mechanism is to encourage everyone to communicate more and express their inner thoughts. No matter if your idea is right or wrong, if you express your opinion and are useful to others, others will give you merit.
In this forum, you have to have the courage to express your thoughts. Maybe what you are talking about is the answer that others are looking for.
Have some tolerance for others. Why are there fewer newcomers in the forum because the forum is not popular? No, newcomers will be severely criticized for saying wrong ideas. We can't make everyone think the same. So be tolerant.
The advantage of forums better than other software is that you can really learn some knowledge. There will not be many ads, scams.
I like to learn on the forum, I can relax and immerse myself in the forum.

[anotherdayyyy]

I have a question, that is, when I replied to a post, then if someone quoted my message, how could I know it without checking the original thread? I've been bothered by the question for some time and it makes me feel kind of lonely here since I cannot feel others' feedback on my words except by merits or deleted notice.
one of my friends quit because she envied others for their merit coz she had zero. Though I do think her words really don't deserve merit, her confidence wasn't satisfied anyway.

[LoyceV]

if someone quoted my message, how could I know it without checking the original thread?

If you don't want to use the Watchlist, you can choose from 2 external services:
[TELEGRAM] Yet Another BitcoinTalk Notification BOT (merits, mentions, topics,+)
[new topic] LoyceV's notification bot

[KingsDen]

I have a question, that is, when I replied to a post, then if someone quoted my message, how could I know it without checking the original thread? I've been bothered by the question for some time and it makes me feel kind of lonely here since I cannot feel others' feedback on my words except by merits or deleted notice.

When you login, at the left top corner, there are three options; Show unread posts since last visit, Show new replies to your post and Watchlist.
.
These three options will help you, while the second option notifies you when there is a reply on the thread you are following; the watch list allows you to customise how you see them. I had same issue when I was a newbie, but these options solved it for me. However, some users also subscribe to telegram notification bot for same purpose.

one of my friends quit because she envied others for their merit coz she had zero. Though I do think her words really don't deserve merit, her confidence wasn't satisfied anyway.

If her purpose of coming to the forum is to be merited, she is right to leave since she was not recieveing them.
There was actually when I was making posts to gain merits, if such posts didn't get merited, I became less human to myself. But after I took my time to read threads and understand the purpose of the forum, I automatically changed my own purpose. Then, merits started coming naturally, even on some posts I least expected them. Advice her to return, if getting merits is her problems, she should not coward-away, she should return and face her problems by learning, then earning (merits).