1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[fizzisist]

Also, If I might ask BFL a second question, how can 32 x 1.05 = 50+ ?    What is the average guy missing?

We've never said or implied that 32 Singles constitute a 50gh/s Rig Box.  The street brawl logic of the previous thread came to that conclusion on it's own and left little opportunity for correction.

The Rig Box product uses different chips than the Single.  That's the simplest explanation.  The 32 expansion points allow different generation cards to be used along with the core interchangeably.

Regards,
BFL

I'm confused, I really thought you did say that the rig box consisted of 32 Bitforce singles, but I see no mention of that on your website now.

Found one quote:

BitForce Single PCB's are used in the Rig Box platform.  However, the Rig Box also employs parts unique to itself.  Why would we go to the trouble for such a small market?  We didn't.  Our product design is influenced by other factors beyond hash mining.

I guess you're saying that the same PCBs are used, but loaded with different chips. If that's the case, will you sell "rig box singles?" Will you sell a rig box with regular Bitforce singles?

Also, what other markets are you selling to? What other applications are there for this hardware?

[1713871514]

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[1713871514]

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[Brian DeLoach]

we didn't start this thread or announce ourselves at all...We were discovered in mid development by a few in the bitcoin community...we put up a pre-order page to keep it orderly...gmax heard about our project and posted...we hadn't expected to enter the market at the time our project was discovered.

You launched a website showcasing your product and you're surprised that it got found out? Before gmax, how did the "few in the bitcoin community" find out about your product? Did you expect them to be quite about it?

[BFL]

I'm confused, I really thought you did say that the rig box consisted of 32 Bitforce singles, but I see no mention of that on your website now.

And there never was.  It was merely crowd speculation in the last thread borne out of all the mindless scam chanting.  Somebody would make a reasonable (but innacurate) point of speculation, then someone else would take it as fact along with other "facts" and stretch it to a backwards conclusion.  Crowd wisdom would then just nod in self agreement.

Really, it was marvelous to watch...  and frankly, I expect it to start up again until we ship in volume because there's no practical consequence for being wrong.  

I guess you're saying that the same PCBs are used, but loaded with different chips. If that's the case, will you sell "rig box singles?" Will you sell a rig box with regular Bitforce singles?

Also, what other markets are you selling to? What other applications are there for this hardware?

The Rig box uses a core comprised of chips different than those used in our Single.  Single cards (and chips) are stacked on top of the core to achieve sum total performance.  A later version of the Single may use different chips, but that has yet to be determined.

To get an idea of target markets, consider the fields of medical imaging, medical research, security applications, financial  (monte carlo calculation clusters), Institutional Boinc, etc.  However, regarding SHA specific market applications, I'll leave that to the imagination.

[bulanula]

Thank you BFL for coming to post and answer our queries in this thread. Hopefully the flame wars and betting will stay out of this one.

My one question is this : How come all the three variables have changed for the worse since your "announcement" ? The power has increased, the price has increased and the performance has decreased ? This does seem like false advertising to me and does not inspire confidence. What if a salesman told you a car can go 200 km/h but the car only does 160 in real life. You would not be pleased.

The pre-order people expect the figures you have been posting at the beginning, namely $500, 20W and 1 Gh/s. If you fail to give them that then you are not to be trusted IMHO.

Good luck and hope you deliver those claims.

Thanks for coming here to cooperate with your customers !

[Turbor]

Will there be another test with Inaba before you ship out the units ?

[worldinacoin]

I hope that there will be another test soon, at least we know what to look out for.

[BFL]

Thank you BFL for coming to post and answer our queries in this thread. Hopefully the flame wars and betting will stay out of this one.

My one question is this : How come all the three variables have changed for the worse since your "announcement" ? The power has increased, the price has increased and the performance has decreased ? This does seem like false advertising to me and does not inspire confidence. What if a salesman told you a car can go 200 km/h but the car only does 160 in real life. You would not be pleased.

The pre-order people expect the figures you have been posting at the beginning, namely $500, 20W and 1 Gh/s. If you fail to give them that then you are not to be trusted IMHO.

Good luck and hope you deliver those claims.

Thanks for coming here to cooperate with your customers !

1.  The price didn't change for the people who took advantage of the pre-order offer.  
2.  We're currently running stable in the speed range specified.
3.  The power will likely be higher by an as yet determined margin.

In sum, only one of the three is changing and as stated in our pre-order terms, performance is guaranteed to meet the specifications listed or the order can be canceled for a full refund.

[BFL]

Will there be another test with Inaba before you ship out the units ?

We will conduct additional public demos with Inaba as we are able.  Video will also be published.

[worldinacoin]

Thank you BFL for coming to post and answer our queries in this thread. Hopefully the flame wars and betting will stay out of this one.

My one question is this : How come all the three variables have changed for the worse since your "announcement" ? The power has increased, the price has increased and the performance has decreased ? This does seem like false advertising to me and does not inspire confidence. What if a salesman told you a car can go 200 km/h but the car only does 160 in real life. You would not be pleased.

The pre-order people expect the figures you have been posting at the beginning, namely $500, 20W and 1 Gh/s. If you fail to give them that then you are not to be trusted IMHO.

Good luck and hope you deliver those claims.

Thanks for coming here to cooperate with your customers !

1.  The price didn't change for the people who took advantage of the pre-order offer.  
2.  We're currently running stable in the speed range specified.
3.  The power will likely be higher by an as yet determined margin.

In sum, only one of the three is changing and as stated in our pre-order terms, performance is guaranteed to meet the specifications listed or the order can be canceled for a full refund.

When do you expect the full product to be launched?

[BFL]

When do you expect the full product to be launched?

Thats the sort of question that can really get me in trouble.    If all goes on schedule with this final step, we'll be making deliveries at the end of this month.

BFL

[worldinacoin]

When do you expect the full product to be launched?

Thats the sort of question that can really get me in trouble.    If all goes on schedule with this final step, we'll be making deliveries at the end of this month.

BFL

Apologies, but really anticipating the launch

[rjk]

Thats the sort of question that can really get me in trouble.    If all goes on schedule with this final step, we'll be making deliveries at the end of this month.

BFL

hellyeah

[fred0]

The BitForce Saga Act III - The Crisis

Grandson: I just met BFL.

Granny:  Oh, and what did that nice man have to say?

Grandson: He said that they may need change the power specs from 19.8 to betwwen 30 and 60 watt.  But that they are still working on the problem, so time will tell.

Granny: Wh-what!! This throws off all my mining calculations.  Oh, how will I be able to afford my medication from Silk Road?

Grandson: Relax Grandma.  Although we pay $0.20 kWh, at current difficulty, the cost to mine one bitcoin will be $0.30, and likely less.

Granny: OMG, that's triple our original projected cost per bitcoin.

Grandson: Well, these numbers are not too good to be true, therefore, could it be, NOT a scam?

to be continued ?

[bulanula]

Where did the original power projection of 20W come from ?

How come it was changed so drastically and now predicted to be around double the original amount or around 50-60 watts ?

Did you mean that each chip consumes 20W ?

[fred0]

Where did the original power projection of 20W come from ?

How come it was changed so drastically and now predicted to be around double the original amount or around 50-60 watts ?

Did you mean that each chip consumes 20W ?

http://butterflylabs.com/products/

[rjk]

Where did the original power projection of 20W come from ?

How come it was changed so drastically and now predicted to be around double the original amount or around 50-60 watts ?

Did you mean that each chip consumes 20W ?

From what I understand, that was the expected load based on 'normal' FPGA work, however mining resulted in higher power usage, which is to be expected to be honest.

[worldinacoin]

I do not think it is really that "drastic", 20w to 60w doesn't really add up much to the running costs.

[sadpandatech]

Where did the original power projection of 20W come from ?

How come it was changed so drastically and now predicted to be around double the original amount or around 50-60 watts ?

Did you mean that each chip consumes 20W ?

http://butterflylabs.com/products/

  His question was not 'where did the forum speculators get that number from". It was "Where did BFL come up with the original 19.8w?" that is stated as the maximum power draw for the unit...

[makomk]

I do not think it is really that "drastic", 20w to 60w doesn't really add up much to the running costs.

It's the difference between being having much better power efficiency than the existing non-vapourware options and having noticably worse efficiency. I'm not sure that this would have gotten quite so much attention if they'd claimed 60 watts in the first place.

[legolouman]

I don't mean to be skeptical (still) but all of their numbers appear to be 'projected numbers'. From what they are saying, they are currently not hitting/not capable of hitting these numbers, so they make less optimistic calculations, and again, and again. People probably won't get 1.05 G/H at 20W for quite some time in that case.