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Author Topic: What’s consensus?  (Read 293 times)
jaysabi
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September 18, 2021, 06:52:44 PM
 #21

[holy yikes]

OP's post is exactly why it's so easy to paint the crypto community as delusional.  Crypto hasn't transformed society and it's not going to in any of the ways OP is fantasizing about because it's not any of the things it's being presented as in that post.  And if you need it to be any or all of those things to see the actual utility of crypto, then you're going to live in an eternally unrealized fantasy world.

Further, the "consensus" concept in bitcoin is what has driven so much division because it requires so much compromise to reach consensus that large groups of people are unhappy.  Every time you see one of these major forks break off from bitcoin it's because a large group of people reject the "consensus" rules and change them the way they think is better.  The consensus aspect is highly overrated and your post doesn't reflect the reality of how divisive such a system has actually been.

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September 19, 2021, 07:53:36 PM
 #22

I like your idealism of seeing bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general as the glue that will put all this stuff together come the future but with a bit of realism, and without skepticism (yet), we could see that this is a bit too far-fetched really. Sure bitcoin and cryptocurrencies could transform the way people see currency and the concept of money but not so much as it would automatically change humanity into a much more understanding species. We're living at the verge of a war and a nuclear standoff. using a different way of paying stuff isn't going to magically solve this.
[holy yikes]

OP's post is exactly why it's so easy to paint the crypto community as delusional.  Crypto hasn't transformed society and it's not going to in any of the ways OP is fantasizing about because it's not any of the things it's being presented as in that post.  And if you need it to be any or all of those things to see the actual utility of crypto, then you're going to live in an eternally unrealized fantasy world.

Further, the "consensus" concept in bitcoin is what has driven so much division because it requires so much compromise to reach consensus that large groups of people are unhappy.  Every time you see one of these major forks break off from bitcoin it's because a large group of people reject the "consensus" rules and change them the way they think is better.  The consensus aspect is highly overrated and your post doesn't reflect the reality of how divisive such a system has actually been.
Couldn't agree more. I've been like this in the past, until I saw the reality of what bitcoin is all about. People should stop putting stuff in pedestals no matter how important or groundbreaking they are. Without proper human application, it'll all just go to waste. In the case of consensus, it's a bit of a grey area too because even now we can't even reach consensus and we haven't had the whole world in this ride yet.



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September 19, 2021, 08:03:51 PM
 #23

<snip>

That is the consensus of Bit Civilization, whose cornerstone is algorithms and technology, transcending human nature in that it is not governed by people and it manages people with the help of algorithms. That's why I gave it that name, it is an advanced human civilization. Bitcoin is leading us from a low-level civilization to a high-level one. It may take one or five or even ten decades, but I believe it will come and no one can stop it.


This is my understanding of some basic concepts of consensus. What's your point?
So are we really reaching a new consensus as you have said? It has been said so many times that Bitcoin is going to create a balanced distribution of wealth in the world, and if I am to see something about that, then it is far from that. There is no balance distribution of wealth, because the rich are even the ones that are getting more rich as they are taking advantage of every opportunity that comes out to increase their level of wealth.

The poor who don’t have money to invest in assets like this, cannot get anything from it. Unless they are going to work very hard for them to earn what they want. But there have been some average people who were able to invest little in Bitcoin and they became rich,  which is good.

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September 19, 2021, 08:11:38 PM
 #24

As is mentioned earlier, when Bitcoin is born, mankind entered a brand new civilization, which I named Bit Civilization. In my opinion, it's a higher civilization based on the idea of Bitcoin and will transform all aspects of human society, including but not limited to organization, family concept, tool, language, word, belief, law, system, city-state, country, assets, ethics, culture and art. The booming crypto world is the embryonic form of the future Bit Civilization.


As far as I'm concerned, substantially, human civilization is consensus, so is Bit Civilization, currency and value. Consensus constitutes value and value constitutes civilization.


So what exactly is consensus? Consensus mechanism is one of the core concepts of Bitcoin, only when we fully understand consensus, can we be more clear about the value that Bitcoin brings to us.


As I see it, the simplest explanation of consensus is shared knowledge, view, understanding and goal, which will temporarily eliminate differences and ease contradictions, rendering collaboration possible.


Another meaning of consensus is agreement, or contract. Reaching a consensus is garnering a contract. In constant struggle, compromise appears frequently, and the process of compromising is the course of forming an agreement. Consensus is to fix the agreement in the form of opinions, concepts or laws. Major difference indicates big consensus while minor difference signifies small one. In the history of human civilization, most of the consensus was formed in compromise.


We live in an objective world where the stimulation of education, learning, media and other external factors is ceaselessly affecting our cognition and then forming our subjective mind. Cognition is the fruit of accepting the consensus that exists. Concepts such as organization, family concept, tool, language, word, belief, law, system, city-state, country, assets, ethics, culture, art and so forth are not innate, but shaped owing to numerous collisions and concessions in violence and argument. In many cases, things themselves have no concepts and values at all but endowed by the collective consciousness of mankind.


In the past 5000-year history, human civilization came into being on the basis of consensus reached through repeated violence and compromise. But when Bitcoin was born, everything changed. Before, human nature determines whether a consensus can be achieved, normally by violence, treaties, agreements, laws and other forms. However, Bitcoin gives technology and algorithms the access to forming consensus . The previous consensus can be changed and discarded at will. Yet the consensus of Bitcoin is founded on cryptography and mathematics, and that abides by the laws of mathematics sorely.


That is the consensus of Bit Civilization, whose cornerstone is algorithms and technology, transcending human nature in that it is not governed by people and it manages people with the help of algorithms. That's why I gave it that name, it is an advanced human civilization. Bitcoin is leading us from a low-level civilization to a high-level one. It may take one or five or even ten decades, but I believe it will come and no one can stop it.


This is my understanding of some basic concepts of consensus. What's your point?
Consensus means that both parties agree to exchange something of equal value and of course this only happens at that time there are only 2 people, and you can pay 50% of the coin and 50% cash or 100% of the coin according to the agreement between two people. I think it's an agreement between two people.

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