Regulators are on next level desperate on Bitcoin and the cryptospace

[stompix]

You might be overestimating the government’s capabilities. Why then did they not stop those terrorists from crashing 2 airplanes on the twin towers and another one on the pentagon in the 911 incident?

Comparing apple pies and superglue.
By the same logic, if the government is unable to stop you from crossing the street on the red light they are unable to drop two atomic bombs in a war...
Are you seriously comparing the average user who most likely had already lost his seed phrase or never actually printed it with a terrorist cell?

Also, you reckon that the government can fully enforce their laws on the cryptospace? How would they know and stop me from sending 1 moneroj to pay someone who sold me an unlicensed firearm?

Try to do that in NK, and if you think that's an extreme thing, just try to get that firearm in Japan.
And to do a bit of crossposting, we're going to see it live as in one huge country experiment what cryptos can do in a country with a hostile government in Afghanistan, are you willing to bet on it? Behind every keyboard, there is a warrior, 2 hours behind bars in a cell and the numbers dwindle to 0.0 something

Again, the fact that they aren't doing anything is not because they can't, it's because is easier to let some small fish think they are free, it's easier to let a few people get some money crypto trading and keeping them occupied rather than having them queueing at the unemployment office and asking for food stamps or taking the matter in their own hands and rob somebody.

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[hatshepsut93]

He's correct in both statements. Without government greenlighting crypto, it won't get adopted by businesses, so it could only be used in informal p2p economy, which is only a small part of economy. He's also correct that a lot of DeFi is centralized, and if they are centralized, than what makes them different from centralized exchanges? If not much, then regulations could help reduce scams. 

Laughable, and stupid to say it like that. Businesses, and companies that need a “green light” to adopt Bitcoin, or “crypto”, should not be in the business of adopting Bitcoin or crypto. You’re allowing the government to censor you from using something permissionless and censorship-resistant?

So all the big and medium businesses should forget about accepting Bitcoin? Then how you expect to see any sort of meaningful Bitcoin adoption? People want payment methods that are universally accepted. People love Visa and Mastercard cards because you can pay with them everywhere. Why would people adopt Bitcoin if you can only make some p2p purchases with it or spend it with small businesses only (which is even now not a reality).

[bbc.reporter]

You might be overestimating the government’s capabilities. Why then did they not stop those terrorists from crashing 2 airplanes on the twin towers and another one on the pentagon in the 911 incident?

Comparing apple pies and superglue.
By the same logic, if the government is unable to stop you from crossing the street on the red light they are unable to drop two atomic bombs in a war...
Are you seriously comparing the average user who most likely had already lost his seed phrase or never actually printed it with a terrorist cell?

Also, you reckon that the government can fully enforce their laws on the cryptospace? How would they know and stop me from sending 1 moneroj to pay someone who sold me an unlicensed firearm?

Try to do that in NK, and if you think that's an extreme thing, just try to get that firearm in Japan.
And to do a bit of crossposting, we're going to see it live as in one huge country experiment what cryptos can do in a country with a hostile government in Afghanistan, are you willing to bet on it? Behind every keyboard, there is a warrior, 2 hours behind bars in a cell and the numbers dwindle to 0.0 something

Again, the fact that they aren't doing anything is not because they can't, it's because is easier to let some small fish think they are free, it's easier to let a few people get some money crypto trading and keeping them occupied rather than having them queueing at the unemployment office and asking for food stamps or taking the matter in their own hands and rob somebody.

However, it has clearly showed that they could not monitor everyone similar to the way that you have described. You reckon they can monitor all Monero users in their country and know where and when they send their coins?

Hehe the argument does not need to be about firearms. How would they stop someone from sending 1 moneroj as payment to a prostitute or for drugs or stolen credit card numbers? The argument is about enforcement of the rules.

[Wind_FURY]

He's correct in both statements. Without government greenlighting crypto, it won't get adopted by businesses, so it could only be used in informal p2p economy, which is only a small part of economy. He's also correct that a lot of DeFi is centralized, and if they are centralized, than what makes them different from centralized exchanges? If not much, then regulations could help reduce scams. 

Laughable, and stupid to say it like that. Businesses, and companies that need a “green light” to adopt Bitcoin, or “crypto”, should not be in the business of adopting Bitcoin or crypto. You’re allowing the government to censor you from using something permissionless and censorship-resistant?

So all the big and medium businesses should forget about accepting Bitcoin? Then how you expect to see any sort of meaningful Bitcoin adoption? People want payment methods that are universally accepted. People love Visa and Mastercard cards because you can pay with them everywhere. Why would people adopt Bitcoin if you can only make some p2p purchases with it or spend it with small businesses only (which is even now not a reality).

I believe it’s they’re choice whether to comply, or not. But shower thought, what would the use of Proof of Work be if your business needs the government’s “green light”/permission before it can start using Bitcoin? Then maybe your business truly has no need for Bitcoin?

[DooMAD]

I believe it’s they’re choice whether to comply, or not. But shower thought, what would the use of Proof of Work be if your business needs the government’s “green light”/permission before it can start using Bitcoin? Then maybe your business truly has no need for Bitcoin?

Think of it this way.  If someone has a rigid routine or process that they have followed for a long time, they are often reluctant to change it.  You tell them that you've got a better way to do it.  But you can't force them to change their ways.  So what you need is an opportunity to show them how you do things and hope they recognise why it's better.  But on the downside, they are, unfortunately, in a position to tell you not to do it your way and could potentially make things difficult for you if you continue doing it once they've asked you to stop.  They haven't reached the stage where they've told you not to do it anymore, yet.  So there may be a limited window of time to convince them that your way is better.

That's the "need".  To show that this works and that it's better.  

So, ideally, it's easier for businesses who recognise the benefits if any regulations and laws being implemented aren't impeding them in any way.  Businesses can't operate in a vacuum.  There will almost invariably be a physical premises with a door for authorities to kick down.  And Bitcoin has more utility if authorities aren't kicking doors down when companies use it.  

You're correct in that it is their decision whether to comply or not, but any business which is driven to operate underground generally won't be as successful as one which operates within the confines of regulations and laws.  It's a difficult trade-off if authorities do ever decide to curtail usage of Bitcoin.  They'll never shut it down completely, but they could drive it underground, reducing overall utility and usage.

[BOAEDAN]

regulators are on the next level of despair in bitcoin and crypto,,?? it's human nature that never have the slightest gratitude, don't even have the gratitude for what they have got from bitcoin, when bitcoin is at a high level, they praise bitcoin as high as the sky, but when the price of bitcoin falls, they even post things negative thing about bitcoin, what's worse, they provoke other people to leave bitcoin, but i will stick with it no matter what..

[hatshepsut93]

I believe it’s they’re choice whether to comply, or not. But shower thought, what would the use of Proof of Work be if your business needs the government’s “green light”/permission before it can start using Bitcoin? Then maybe your business truly has no need for Bitcoin?

There is no choice, their either comply or get fined and shut down.

Companies might have many reasons to adopt Bitcoin payments, not necessarily because they hate banks and centralized payment systems. I don't think we should gatekeep Bitcoin by saying that "only true cypherpunk anarchists deserve to use Bitcoin". If so, you will never see mainstream adoption.

[Ararbermas]

Regulation always happened when they all see the value of crypto currency especially when the price in the market really exploding and keep promising.. But when there's an issue occur and the prices in the market turn into long bear season, they suddenly refuse to adopt it and ban crypto currency wherein until they become the common problem in the space. That's what happened to some countries, so for sure in the future there's a tends that some of the country that regulate crypto now will decline it also because of some reason. Just saying.

[Bitstar_coin]

I think we should not understand estimate the power of government to enforce regulations on anything be it centralized or decentralized, even with the presence of vpn, tor, other privacy means I feel the government can still pull a string whenever they want to, means they can take extreme measures which will affect the entire market some how,
The crypto space is increasing rapidly free to everyone and it doesn't seem the government will ignore this for long, especially now that big institutions are tapping all the benefits, some form of regulations will certainly come, not very restrict perhaps.

[stompix]

However, it has clearly showed that they could not monitor everyone similar to the way that you have described. You reckon they can monitor all Monero users in their country and know where and when they send their coins?

That's the most important thing, they can't monitor everyone.
Of course, they can't monitor where you spend all your coins, where you go on a walk, or every word you say on the phone and do the same for the rest of the country, there will be gaps, but at one point when usage surges the gaps will no longer be there as users get connected by traces in real life. You pay a random hooker 100$, nobody will be able to stop that, but once she receives 100 of those payment sand she needs to somehow convert that money or suddenly decides on buying a car or a flat instantly the will become a target for law enforcement, then all they have to do is track her and simply pick one by one her clients.

It's pretty simple, can the government know when I'm mopping my flor? No! Can they find out where I bought my mop? Yeah, they simply need to take the surveillance video from my block of flats and they will see when I got it out of my car. The same with your drugs buy, they don't know when you paid for it with that, but they know a guy received a package from somebody they had under surveillance cause they were sending 20 packages a day across the country. Finding the needle in a stack becomes very easy when the stack is made out of needles, not hay.

[Ruvi2000sew]

I completely agree that, despite their powerlessness, they continue to try to regulate cryptocurrency despite the fact that they have no control over it. Right now, our country is dealing with that type of nonsense from the tax agency, and with the introduction of Axie Infinity, they're attempting to use the taxes angle even though there's nothing they can do about it; the best thing to do is laugh at them.

[nelson4lov]

I completely agree that, despite their powerlessness, they continue to try to regulate cryptocurrency despite the fact that they have no control over it. Right now, our country is dealing with that type of nonsense from the tax agency, and with the introduction of Axie Infinity, they're attempting to use the taxes angle even though there's nothing they can do about it; the best thing to do is laugh at them.

It's not just about the laughing but to completely shun traditional financial services while focusing more on decentralized financial services (short for DeFi). This is the only way we would win the fight against regulatory bodies. If we use finance services built on traditional or centralized platforms, it would be so much easier for them to control, get data or do anything they want compared to decentralized finance systems where its more expensive do carry out such exercises.

[Slow death]

this is the kind of subject that doesn't need to be discussed much, the thing is quite simple: if a government creates a law that prohibits using bitcoin then people in that country just have to obey the laws and of course fewer people who would be buying bitcoin would be exchages from this country that would be closing its doors, there is no way bitcoin  prosper if all countries in the world had a law prohibiting bitcoin. Let's look at the current scenario: binance is demanding that its customers comply with KYC, this is due to pressure from many governments, yet another concrete example that cooperation with governments is necessary for this market to prosper

[DooMAD]

I believe it’s they’re choice whether to comply, or not. But shower thought, what would the use of Proof of Work be if your business needs the government’s “green light”/permission before it can start using Bitcoin? Then maybe your business truly has no need for Bitcoin?

There is no choice, their either comply or get fined and shut down.

And it's not just the compliance aspect.  It's the overall accessibility of your services.  Many individuals may want to preserve their privacy.  It's a much easier choice for them because they likely don't have any need to draw attention to themselves.  Legitimate businesses, on the other hand, want to be seen.  They want the public to know who they are and where to find them, so people can buy their products.  It's going to be more difficult for a company to attract customers if the only way to access their services is through the darkweb.  There's an obvious financial incentive for companies to follow regulations and laws.

[bbc.reporter]

I reckon with more regulations, we might witness the ascent of the blockchain analytics partnerships with much of the services and applications in bitcoin and the blockchain platforms in the cryptospace that want to be compliant. I hope everyone who argued that regulations are better for the cryptospace reconsider their position on the matter.



Cardano Foundation (ADA) signs on Coinfirm to comply with FATF norms

Cardano Foundation is an independent non-profit that supervises the advancement of Cardano (ADA), while protecting and promoting the protocol’s technology.

The Swiss-based foundation recently announced that it has selected a major crypto intelligence and blockchain analytics provider Coinfirm to bolster the security of Cardano, while overseeing the network’s compliance with the Financial Action Task Force’s (FATF) guidelines.

Furthering institutional capabilities and mass adoption

“This partnership will ensure that Cardano is able to be in full compliance with the FATF’s guidelines,” read the announcement, stating that the new pair up will also secure the 6th Anti-money laundering directive (6AMLD) and other supranational and national regulations are being met.

According to the announcement, Coinfirm represents a “component of commercially critical infrastructure for Cardano,” and by teaming up with a major crypto intelligence and blockchain analytics provider, the Foundation has made a big strategic move that will further the institutional capabilities of the growing ecosystem.

The new collaboration with Coinfirm is aimed at furthering Cardano’s mass adoption in regulated markets while assuring governments, financial institutions, and consumers “that reasonable measures have been taken to reduce the risk of transactions being exposed to illicit or illegal behavior.”

Source https://cryptoslate.com/cardano-foundation-ada-signs-on-coinfirm-to-comply-with-fatf-norms/

[zanezane]

this is the kind of subject that doesn't need to be discussed much, the thing is quite simple: if a government creates a law that prohibits using bitcoin then people in that country just have to obey the laws and of course fewer people who would be buying bitcoin would be exchages from this country that would be closing its doors, there is no way bitcoin  prosper if all countries in the world had a law prohibiting bitcoin.

That's a privilege way of looking at things, as if following the law is a fair thing for many people. Also, if you're forced to obey the laws then you're living in a police state, it's not like your a robot, you can comply but you can't be forced.

[iTradeChips]

They always want to regulate and get their piece of a cake when they see bull market. But when crypto goes down they losing their interest and spreading more FUD to make people stay away from crypto. I bet they actually buying it in that times and don't want regular folks to do the same.

Imagine if more and more companies will be adopting Bitcoin and demands government to regulate it so they could safely transact with Bitcoins, then I think regulating Bitcoin as the government would want it would be beneficial in the long run. This is simply a case of testing the worthiness of Bitcoin to the general public in terms of using it not just as an asset, but also as a mode of payment. Provided they come up with fair pricing methods to keep people from paying too much satoshis.

[AakZaki]

Imagine if more and more companies will be adopting Bitcoin and demands government to regulate it so they could safely transact with Bitcoins, then I think regulating Bitcoin as the government would want it would be beneficial in the long run. This is simply a case of testing the worthiness of Bitcoin to the general public in terms of using it not just as an asset, but also as a mode of payment. Provided they come up with fair pricing methods to keep people from paying too much satoshis.

when bitcoin is regulated by the government Bitcoin no longer achieves its purpose. Bitcoin cannot be controlled by anyone. Bitcoin has high volatility and greater risk than Fiat currency. Bitcoin cannot replace fiat. Although some countries such as El Salvador have adopted bitcoin for legal payments, most countries are still unable to do so due to the volatile and risky nature of bitcoin. Fair pricing methods may still be researched to be more secure. but currently bitcoin is only an option as a digital currency for trading.

[Wind_FURY]

this is the kind of subject that doesn't need to be discussed much, the thing is quite simple: if a government creates a law that prohibits using bitcoin then people in that country just have to obey the laws

Then if everyone had the same perspective as that, and especially if Satoshi and the OG Cypherpunks had the same viewpoint as that, then in my opinion, Bitcoin and the other developments that lead to it, wouldn’t be invented.