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Author Topic: Trust flags  (Read 11429 times)
Timelord2067
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September 01, 2021, 12:16:04 PM
 #461

Just in case my post in the *cough* "uncensored" betking.io thread (with at least two posts deleted by the creator of the flag) ... would someone in this thread like to have a look over my discussion in that thread as I feel it should probably be ported to this thread.

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September 01, 2021, 04:50:41 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #462

I feel it should probably be ported to this thread.
I'll quote it here:
The terms of creating Flags is quite clear in that the thread cannot be a self moderated one (this thread is self moderated) and the thread cannot be locked.   You did not create the thread, therefore, you cannot guarantee that the thread won't ever be locked.
I'm pretty sure the requirements apply for creating the Flag. There's no way as a user to guarantee a Mod won't lock the thread later. I would Oppose Flags if the Reference topic doesn't exist, not when it's created by someone else.
If theymos intended the Flag system to have a consequence when the topic gets locked, he would have automated it.

I'm pretty sure theymos said when introducing Flags that a locked thread is one of the many reasons that makes a Flag invalid.  (but in saying that, I've just scrolled all 20+ pages and can't find where theymos said that...)
I can't find it either. When creating a Flag, it only says it shouldn't be self-moderated.

True, but Flag 2809 is a type one flag while flag 2810 - type three was created just one second later.
There was more time between creating those Flags. BPIP doesn't update real-time.

Quote
Flag 2809 is redundant in more ways than one, hence my continued opposition to it.
Type 3 Flags expire 10 years after the date mentioned. Type 1 Flags don't expire. So long-term, Flag 2809 will stand when Flag 2810 doesn't show anymore.

Is a non-victim creating an otherwise factual flag also considered to be abusing the system?

Is someone who supports a factual flag that was created by a non-victim also considered to be abusing the system?

And is someone who opposes a valid flag also considered to be abusing the system?

That's all misuse of the system.

We either work within the guidelines as set out.  Or, we do our own thing, then join a gang when we don't like what others are doing in this place and dish out rough justice.
That's quote is about type 2/3 Flags, type 1 Flags can be created by anyone.

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September 02, 2021, 12:07:27 AM
 #463

(Hopefully I've attributed the quotes correctly, please advise if the attributions are incorrect)

I would Oppose Flags if the Reference topic doesn't exist, not when it's created by someone else.

I can see you've opposed about fifty of the Flags (about one in five Flags) listed on this page: https://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/ReferenceTopicDoesNotExist.html (Flag 1264 that you support has had it's thread removed, so that might be a grey area).  A few of those Flags are now neither supported nore opposed by anyone.  Should those be opposed if the accused is NOT banned?

If theymos intended the Flag system to have a consequence when the topic gets locked, he would have automated it.

I doubt it, but you can always suggest it to him.

I'm pretty sure theymos said when introducing Flags that a locked thread is one of the many reasons that makes a Flag invalid.  (but in saying that, I've just scrolled all 20+ pages and can't find where theymos said that...)
I can't find it either. When creating a Flag, it only says it shouldn't be self-moderated.

I don't know where I read that, but it makes sense that "the accused" must have a platform (the thread) to respond to the accusation made against them.  Surely it follows an unlocked thread that is referenced in the Flag is that platform?  And, the only way to guarantee a thread remains unlocked (without admin/mod intervention) is for the thread to have been created by the one who creates the flag, not another person.  (Otherwise, accusers would probably just start one thread and dump all their accusations in that thread, or, another thread started by someone else where Flags and accusations would get mixed up) - (One Flag|One thread) * (where "one" could be a group accused of the one Flag/Flag type)

There was more time between creating those Flags. BPIP doesn't update real-time.

Thanks for clarifying that, at the time I wrote my comments I felt your flag type 3 for the same person at (notionally) the same time overrides the type one flag?  But then you have now posted this:

Type 3 Flags expire 10 years after the date mentioned. Type 1 Flags don't expire. So long-term, Flag 2809 will stand when Flag 2810 doesn't show anymore.

That's quote is about type 2/3 Flags, type 1 Flags can be created by anyone.

True, but if there isn't any accountability, then you end up with the shills and those with vendettas indiscriminately creating flags that will never fade away regardless of whether or not they then withdraw their support for those flags.

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September 02, 2021, 03:56:15 AM
 #464

The terms of creating Flags is quite clear in that the thread cannot be a self moderated one (this thread is self moderated) and the thread cannot be locked.   You did not create the thread, therefore, you cannot guarantee that the thread won't ever be locked.
I'm pretty sure the requirements apply for creating the Flag. There's no way as a user to guarantee a Mod won't lock the thread later. I would Oppose Flags if the Reference topic doesn't exist, not when it's created by someone else.
If theymos intended the Flag system to have a consequence when the topic gets locked, he would have automated it.
IIRC, if a reference thread is locked, it is not possible for someone to add support for a flag, while you can oppose a flag that is referenced by a locked thread.

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September 02, 2021, 08:41:42 AM
 #465

I can see you've opposed about fifty of the Flags (about one in five Flags) listed on this page: https://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/ReferenceTopicDoesNotExist.html (Flag 1264 that you support has had it's thread removed, so that might be a grey area).  A few of those Flags are now neither supported nore opposed by anyone.  Should those be opposed if the accused is NOT banned?
I added a comment with an archive link to my Trust list viewer to the one Active Flag without Reference link. I don't want to remove my Support for the Flag because user percenter isn't banned. In general, it's better to create a separate scam accusation thread to use as reference for the Flag.

Quote
That's quote is about type 2/3 Flags, type 1 Flags can be created by anyone.
True, but if there isn't any accountability, then you end up with the shills and those with vendettas indiscriminately creating flags that will never fade away regardless of whether or not they then withdraw their support for those flags.
I don't think type 2/3 Flags disappear after they expire, I expect them to still show up as inactive. Unfortunately I can't confirm this yet. Only 2 Flags (36 and 2669) expired, but those Flags don't have enough Support to show them anyway.

IIRC, if a reference thread is locked, it is not possible for someone to add support for a flag, while you can oppose a flag that is referenced by a locked thread.
That's easy to test, and it's incorrect:
I can Support and Oppose Flags with a locked Reference thread.
I can Support and Oppose Flags without a Reference thread.

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