Ledger Nano X Circus (Battery, Recover and more)

[DaveF]

Wow, what crap construction. Got my friends coins out last night and decided to see if we could take it apart to figure out if we could fix it.
Not like we can do any more damage to it....

Pried the top off, and had metal tabs and flakes land on the table. No idea where they came from, looks like debris that landed in it during assembly.
Sadly, no pictures since we declared it worthless and decided to get dinner at that point. His wife cleaned up the kitchen table so we could eat before we got back.

-Dave 

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[sam00]

The Ledger Blue cost almost 300€ and was discontinued just a few short months after release. Which means no software updates or support for a new product. It is shown that Ledger absolutely drops products if they don't sell or have issues. Which is the case with the X.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/7zbcye/ledger_blue_discontinued/

Can you share with us, where you heard those rumors ? I never heard about the Ledger Blue or the Ledger HW1 but I really hope that they don't stop supporting the Ledger Nano S or the Ledger Nano X any time soon. Otherwise, nearly 200$ would go to the waste after only a short amount of time lol

Few days ago there was some ledger community audio call, and they allegedly said they are working on some new model.
If we compare that with Trezor, they are still maintaining and supporting first ever hardware wallet that was released back in 2014, and ledger already dropped support for two models (so far).

The only reason they keep selling and supporting the S is because, well, R&D cost has been paid off probably hundreds of times by now and they know they can keep milking it at no additional cost since people keep buying it and it works fine. If it would have an issue like Blue or X they would drop it quickly, I'm sure.

One of my theories is that are doing this massive battery problems on purpose, so they can retire model X after some time.
I know they are village amateurs, but nobody can be so stupid to send customers faulty devices multiple times, and that is still happening.

Thank you guys, I wasn't aware of that. I still hope that they don't drop the Nano X and I also think that they would lose a lot of customers like me for example lol

I just hope they learned from their mistakes and that the whole battery pandemic and faulty devices only affect a small amount of the devices sold

[dkbit98]

If you have ledger Nano X and you are stuck with it and have one of many issues with temperature and battery, you should update firmware to latest version 2.0.0 and you must update Ledger Live app to latest version 2.34.3
They claim that battery management is now improved, onboarding process is more simple, security and privacy is improved and they are ready for November Taproot upgrade.
It all sounds great in theory but I don't trust ledger at all, so let's wait and see feedback from people and how this update works in real life.

— The updated Ledger Nano X 2.0.0 version is now available.
— Updating your Nano X device will simplify your onboarding process, improve battery management as well as security & privacy features.
— The update process is very simple: just start Ledger Live, go to the Manager section, connect your Nano X device and start the firmware update.

https://www.ledger.com/blog/ledger-nano-x-firmware-version-200-now-available-for-an-improved-user-experience

All updates and changes:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014980580

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

I am not sure that a software upgrade can fix the problems they have with the Nano X battery. Several posts and videos suggested that the battery connectors were causing the charging issues. They need to be lifted up manually. But let's wait and see. Time will tell.

There is one thing I don't like about this video that explains the faulty connectors though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZJIXBp1Ic

He didn't turn on the device before applying his fix, so that we can actually see that his method fixed the issues and that there was an issue in the first place. I have no reason to doubt the video creator. I am just saying it could have been done better.   

[dkbit98]

I am not sure that a software upgrade can fix the problems they have with the Nano X battery. Several posts and videos suggested that the battery connectors were causing the charging issues. They need to be lifted up manually. But let's wait and see. Time will tell.

I already explained physical issues with nano x and potential solution for that in the first post of this topic, but there is obviously related issue with charging, temperature too high, battery management and firmware update is trying to fix this.

Now let's check out recent reports from ledger reddit after last update:

ledger firmware update, recovery phrase not working
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qd4jph/ledger_firmware_update_recovery_phrase_not_working/
After updating the latest firmware, i failed to pass the recovery check
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qd9rvo/after_updating_the_latest_firmware_i_failed_to/
Upgraded both ledgers to 2.0, can't send cardano now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qdapnf/upgraded_both_ledgers_to_20_cant_send_cardano_now/

What a bunch of amateurs... but it's always better to wait few days before updating.

[Pmalek]

I already explained physical issues with nano x and potential solution for that in the first post of this topic...

Yes, I know that.

Now let's check out recent reports from ledger reddit after last update:

ledger firmware update, recovery phrase not working
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qd4jph/ledger_firmware_update_recovery_phrase_not_working/

Judging by one comment on Reddit, it's the Recovery Check app that is causing the issues. They need to update the app as well to incorporate the changes made in the firmware. The same user said that issues with the Recovery Check app happened in the past as well. It looks like Ledger is pushing their updates without properly checking everything. And other users posted that their firmware upgrade worked just fine. 

Most likely everything is fine and the Recovery Check app wasn't updated to properly work with this new firmware version. This same situation actually happened before with the prior firmware update when it was first released.

Especially if you've verified your phrase in the past and it worked fine then, you shouldn't be freaking out just yet.

Source

[SFR10]

I don't trust ledger at all,

Same here! I just noticed that they've "silently" removed ^{[sometime in the past two weeks]} a paragraph that mentioned their so-called "new Nano X production line"...

• Screenshot
  
  • Live link vs archived link on OCT 09

Now let's check out recent reports from ledger reddit after last update:

• There's also a minor problem ^{["battery saver shutting down"]} that changes your "battery saver settings" by default:
  
  • User #1
  • User #2
    
  
  
• Other problems:
  
  • Stuck in bootloader
  • Failed transaction on metamask

[dkbit98]

After recent 2.0 firmware update for ledger nano x I can safely say that it didn't fix anything and only created more problems.
Most common issues now are frozen screen with unusable ledger device, battery can't charge, fido U2F time out and not working anymore, bluetooth not working, etc.
Even co-founder moderator btchip said that he is waiting for announcement from I don't know who, but he expects that larger part of issues (meaning not all) have been fixed.

I'm also waiting for the announcement but you can expect that the larger part of the issue has been addressed by the firmware update in any case.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qf6dvh/safe_to_buy_nano_x_now/

Expect new update soon and meanwhile you can read some Frozen screen issues:

Stuck after 2.0 update (Frozen screen stays on)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qdfn4l/stuck_after_20_update_frozen_screen_stays_on/
Another screen state- Stuck after 2.0 update (Frozen screen stays on)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qdyk9p/another_screen_state_stuck_after_20_update_frozen/
Frozen screen after 2.0 firmware update
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qe8kos/frozen_screen_after_20_firmware_update/

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

They keep delivering more and more disappointing news. It's as if they have a branch in their assembly team that is intentionally messing with their products hardware-wise.
Here is an interesting poll that a user posted in the reddit thread you linked to. He asked users to vote on how their Ledger Nano X purchase was. Out of 707 votes, 623 voted that it was in working order. The rest voted that it was either not working and was replaced, replaced with another faulty device, etc.

OmegaStarScream could use this as a reference point if he is still set on purchasing a Nano X. The poll results show that the majority of voters were indeed satisfied. Those who weren't are of course making themselves heard.

[dkbit98]

Here is an interesting poll

Ledger reddit is full of bots that can vote, this also counts the people who purchased this devices years ago, that voting was closed one month ago when there was no so much battery problems,
and even if we say that this is true (and I don't believe it is) that means that almost 10% of all nano x devices are shipping defective or comes dead on arrival... that is a huge number and it's much higher if we only count last few months.
Not taking in account that they are even breaking with new firmware updates, but this only confirms that ledger team lied when they said that percentage for malfunctioned devices is much lower.

[dkbit98]

New Halloween surprise from ledger... ''certificate has expired'' error is the new thing, and co-founder moderator btchip confirmed this new issue on reddit and said they are working on it.
They also released and pinned a post with all the reported issues after installing latest  nano x 2.0.0 firmware version_

- For Bluetooth issues re-pair Nano X to your phone following THIS guide.
- For battery cannot charge let the device charge for 15 minutes straight, and if it's still not working contact their support.
- For battery saver shutting down screen you need to select a battery saver timeout value in the device’s general settings, than enable auto power-off.
- For white screen in the background when you enter your PIN code do nothing, becasue this is by design, and it's not an issue.
- For DOT, Cardano, Flow, Zilliqa, or Hedera issue update Ledger Live to latest version 2.34.3 and update apps.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qgwrc9/nano_x_200_firmware_update_we_hear_you/


https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qi6sor/whats_this_bs_i_need_my_funds_now_isnt_this_the/

[DaveF]

It takes less then an hour to get an certificate. Even if you have to shove it into code and get it published we are not talking a long time at all. I got for a client, while in bed 1/2 asleep with my laptop when their IT staff dropped the ball. Had it on their site with the help of the web developer in under an hour and their senior programmer had it in their recompiled apps and out for approval to the play store and iTunes store before I was out of the shower.
WTF???

I'm not bragging that I am a super IT person, this really is simple stuff. Getting access to where it needs to be can be difficult, but in a smaller company like Ledger you text / call people and get them moving.

-Dave

[SFR10]

- For white screen in the background when you enter your PIN code do nothing, becasue this is by design, and it's not an issue.

I wonder why they're not tackling the "OLED vulnerability problem ^{[credit goes to "this" post]}" with the use of LCD screens?
^{- AFAIK, there are still various LCD manufacturers and suppliers + they're cheaper as well [am I missing something?].}

• These countermeasures will be included in regular firmware updates for the Ledger Nano S and Ledger Nano X, scheduled for Q4 of 2019.

  Am I correct in assuming that they've released that countermeasure "2 years" behind schedule?

[HCP]

OLEDs have "better" power consumption characteristics... in that "Black" pixels don't consume any power at all. This is important for battery powered devices, and even more so with something like the Nano X that has very limited battery capacity.

Am I correct in assuming that they've released that countermeasure "2 years" behind schedule?

I've certainly had that "countermeasure" on my Nano S for longer than I can remember... it's certainly not a new thing. Perhaps whomever it was that reported it had only just updated their firmware?

In any case, it's really only a theoretical attack... unless of course you think you wouldn't notice someone sitting next to you with an oscillioscope observing the power draw on the USB cable of your Nano X


As they mention in the article... it would probably be more cost effective and easier to set up a camera to capture the PIN input.

[dkbit98]

I wonder why they're not tackling the "OLED vulnerability problem ^{[credit goes to "this" post]}" with the use of LCD screens?

I think that poor ledger boys don't even have enough time to go and have a toilet break or drink a coffee, because their devices have so much issues that you can't count them all, let alone fix some old problem.
When I want to have some fun during the day I just open ledger reddit channel and enjoy the show, and brand new thing I saw is device locking each time after new app is installed.
It's never boring and you have so much fun when you own a ledger device, especially X  


https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qitcn5/this_happens_every_time_i_install_a_new_app/


https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qiic0k/nano_x_20_wtf/

[dkbit98]

New issues are showing up with Ledger Nano X after users updated their devices to latest firmware, and more people are reporting this on ledger reddit page.
Screen is frozen and it's showing Application is ready but it's not responding when you click on buttons or anything else.
Ledger support is slow to respond because they have many requests now, but they said how new devices are based on new PCB and they probably fixed this issue, but you are screwed if you have device with older PCB, so support is suggesting that you buy a new device  

Hi! New models are based on a new PCB and are already embedded with the new firmware version. They are not subject to this issue. You can get one and expect to receive a fully functioning device 😃

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/rabj48/ledger_nano_x_often_stuck_after_recent_200/

[sam00]

New issues are showing up with Ledger Nano X after users updated their devices to latest firmware, and more people are reporting this on ledger reddit page.
Screen is frozen and it's showing Application is ready but it's not responding when you click on buttons or anything else.
Ledger support is slow to respond because they have many requests now, but they said how new devices are based on new PCB and they probably fixed this issue, but you are screwed if you have device with older PCB, so support is suggesting that you buy a new device  

Hi! New models are based on a new PCB and are already embedded with the new firmware version. They are not subject to this issue. You can get one and expect to receive a fully functioning device 😃

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/rabj48/ledger_nano_x_often_stuck_after_recent_200/

While I do think that this bug is concerning, I still wanna add that you kind of took that supports answer out of context here.

Some guy commented that he currently has a Ledger Nano S and was thinking about getting a Nano X but was concerned about all the problems.
The support specifically answered that guy that the new devices don’t have these problems so he won’t have to worry about this specific bug if he buys a Nano x now. To me that’s not the same as „suggesting current Nano X users to just buy a new device.“

Edit:
To add to that, they even offered some other guy in the comments a replacement so I have to clearly subject here that they are not telling people to just buy a new device which would indeed be ridiculous.

[dkbit98]

While I do think that this bug is concerning, I still wanna add that you kind of took that supports answer out of context here.

This is NOT true and I didn't take anything out of context, because support also answered a hypothetical question asked by OP when he asked what would happen if he returned malfunctioned device and then he received device that has the same issues.
Replacement is happening only when you return them broken device (if it is inside warranty) and you will have to pay all shipping, customs and tax yourself again.
If your warranty is expired you will have to buy a new device if you update firmware and brake your device.
Problem is with their old PCB, and that was the point of my post.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/rabj48/comment/hnks0tb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[sam00]

This is NOT true and I didn't take anything out of context, because support also answered a hypothetical question asked by OP when he asked what would happen if he returned malfunctioned device and then he received device that has the same issues.
Replacement is happening only when you return them broken device (if it is inside warranty) and you will have to pay all shipping, customs and tax yourself again.
If your warranty is expired you will have to buy a new device if you update firmware and brake your device.

Problem is with their old PCB, and that was the point of my post.

If the customer really has to pay shipping and tax for a replacement that is caused by ledger then that also sucks!
I am also not trying to defend ledger here because having such a important device fail or malfuncture can cost you a lot of money and its not like the Nano X is cheap.

When reading your post above (#56) it really sounded like a conversation like that happened:
Customer: "Yo ledger, my device is broken due to a firmware update. What should we do now ?"
Ledger: "Yikes, go buy a new one"

Instead they are offering a replacement (which is suboptimal since the customer has apparently has to pay shipping + tax) and reassuring potential new users that the newer versions won't face this issue.

I just wanted to clarify that because there might be more people misunderstanding this and if anyone here has such a problem with his device, he should know that he could get a replacement.

[Pmalek]

This is NOT true and I didn't take anything out of context, because support also answered a hypothetical question asked by OP when he asked what would happen if he returned malfunctioned device and then he received device that has the same issues.
Replacement is happening only when you return them broken device (if it is inside warranty) and you will have to pay all shipping, customs and tax yourself again.

Their support also replied just below the screenshot that you posted that all charges incurred for the replacement device will be refunded to the user by Ledger. If they refund all charges, that should include shipping and taxes as well.

One of their "solutions" is to let the battery run out. But that's, of course, far from optimal and it's not something you can do if you face the freezing problem multiple times.

If your warranty is expired you will have to buy a new device if you update firmware and brake your device.

That's not mentioned in the reddit post you shared but I think that should be correct. If the warranty has expired and it breaks, they may not want to replace it. The only way to find out for sure is if you ask them whether or not they will replace a device that broke due to a firmware upgrade even if it's not under warranty anymore. Bad practice if you ask me. If a device breaks because of their own firmware upgrade, it should be replaced no matter if it's still under warranty or not.