Cannot recover electrum wallet with 12 seed electrum phrase

[abacusplatypus]

Hi,
My previous Mac crashed and I am working on a new one trying to recover my electrum wallet. The process seems straight forward however when I enter my 12 word seed phrase the next button remains greyed out... This wallet was created with newer version of Electrum (i.e. Dec 2020) and all the words are on the list. I have meticulously recorded the 12 word seed phrase and entered properly i.e. lower case, single space, correct order but the next button just stays blank.

I am at a loss what to do it as all the advice relating to this dilemma is just "check the words are spelled correctly" etc. I definitely have recorded it accurately and entered in the right order and should not be BIP39 as it was created with Electrum... so what else can be done?

Thanks

[1715115418]

1715115418

[1715115418]

1715115418

[pooya87]

The only reason why the next button stays disabled (grey) is when the entered mnemonic is not valid, either contains invalid words (not in the list or wrong spelling) or has an invalid checksum (could be because of wrong word order or one or more wrong words).

The only other reason I can think of which the next button stays disabled is if you enter a mnemonic in the wrong window (like when recovering using "master key" or recovering a 2FA wallet with a standard seed).

If you are sure about being in the right window and also not having any typos then your only remaining option is to brute force the mnemonic.
Start by looking at your seed phrase, for example if you have a word that is repeated twice there is a small chance that it was a mistake and you wrote it twice. That's a candidate word for change.
Also look at the word list, there are similar looking words that you may have written wrong. Like act/actor, aim/arm, space/spare, etc. Link to word lists: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/bip-0039-wordlists.md

[nc50lc]

It will only be unclickable if the seed isn't correct.
Try to replace some words with similar ones from the wordlist that could be mistyped when recording the backup. Some of them are similar.
An easy way to do this is to type the first three characters of the word during the restore process in Electrum and check the possible words from the selection.

You can also try to restore it with "BIP39 seed" enabled in the option and make three different wallets, each with one of the three available derivation paths.

[pooya87]

An easy way to do this is to type the first three characters of the word during the restore process in Electrum and check the possible words from the selection.

Unfortunately that won't cover all cases. The word-lists aren't really that good, specially the English one which is terrible in my opinion. There are words such as the example I used above that only have 3 letters and a very small difference like aim and arm (middle letter).

[abacusplatypus]

I was extremely careful copying these words down... and looking at the list they aren't really similar to any others.
Can I check does the SegWit Address mean anything. I noted this down as default.wallet originally, does this need to be the same or have any influence on why it isn't working?

[pooya87]

Can I check does the SegWit Address mean anything.

The script or address type (such as SegWit address) is going to be automatically detected by the application when you enter your seed phrase since it is encoded in it and you don't have to worry about it.

I noted this down as default.wallet originally, does this need to be the same or have any influence on why it isn't working?

"default_wallet" is the default name that the application uses for the wallet file and it doesn't affect the recovery process using the seed phrase.

By the way do you have access to your old wallet file? That also can be used to recover your wallet.

[abacusplatypus]

I don't currently have access to the old file, it was just on the laptop that got tea spilled on it! I can try and get it recovered... but it doesn't look good. The situation seems hopeless though... is there anyway of contacting Electrum for help with this?... I mean their website just brings me to this forum anyways.

[LoyceV]

I don't currently have access to the old file, it was just on the laptop that got tea spilled on it! I can try and get it recovered... but it doesn't look good.

Tea usually won't destroy the drive, so it doesn't seem unlikely to recover it. You can probably find an online guide on how to remove the hard drive, put it in a case, and copy your ~/.electrum/wallets directory.

I was extremely careful copying these words down...

A mistake I've seen a few times with Ledger users is writing it down like this:
1. 2.
3. 4.
5. 6.

And entering it like this:
1. 4.
2. 5.
3. 6.

[nc50lc]

I don't currently have access to the old file, it was just on the laptop that got tea spilled on it! I can try and get it recovered... but it doesn't look good. The situation seems hopeless though... is there anyway of contacting Electrum for help with this?... I mean their website just brings me to this forum anyways.

Electrum developers wont be able to "directly" help you in recovering your seed phrase since it isn't stored to any server.
You'll likely get the same advice as these.

Have you tried to restore the seed phrase with BIP39 option enabled? That will enable you to click "next", then select one of the options (start with the middle).
Users usually use that to create Electrum wallet with P2WPKH-P2SH (P2SH-SegWit) addresses.

[abacusplatypus]

Thanks, I will hopefully get the hard drive recovered... I have contacted someone about this.... then hopefully I can double check the 12 word seed, but as I said I was so meticulous about recording it (for fear of such a situation) that I can't see where any discrepancies may be.

[abacusplatypus]

When I create a new wallet using the seed phrase using BIP39 the wallet just comes up empty

[nc50lc]

When I create a new wallet using the seed phrase using BIP39 the wallet just comes up empty

How about the other two options?

If all are empty, then there's really an error in your backup.
Recovering the wallet file from the laptop is your best option which has a great chance, as long as the "tea" hadn't penetrated the HDD/SSD.

[abacusplatypus]

I tried all 3 options under BIP39

[LoyceV]

When I create a new wallet using the seed phrase using BIP39 the wallet just comes up empty

Did you by any chance extend the seed with custom words (a password)?

[PawGo]

Do you know which address you expect to restore?

Try that page: https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ (legit!)
You may download to you computer to launch it offline if want:

Code:

Offline Usage
You can use this tool without having to be online.
In your browser, select file save-as, and save this page as a file.
Double-click that file to open it in a browser on any offline computer.
Alternatively, download the file from the latest GitHub release - https://github.com/iancoleman/bip39/releases/latest/

Then enter your seed (if it is indeed BIP39) and then play with BIP32/BIP44/BIP49/BIP84/BIP141 paths & addresses.

[NeuroticFish]

Try that page: https://iancoleman.io/bip39/ (legit!)
~
Then enter your seed (if it is indeed BIP39) and then play with BIP32/BIP44/BIP49/BIP84/BIP141 paths & addresses.

The seed generated by Electrum is not compatible (may need better word here) with this.

Electrum can use the standard BIP39 seed if you select the checkbox, but when it generates new seed, that one contains some extra versioning info. The seed words are from the same list, and this can be confusing though.

So if you put Electrum seed into Ian Coleman site I expect you end up with different addresses you will get "invalid mnemonic".


Edit: correction

[PawGo]

So if you put Electrum seed into Ian Coleman site I expect you end up with different addresses.

You are right.... it shows error 'invalid mnemonic'.

But there is a fork of that project: https://github.com/FarCanary/ElectrumSeedTester
it correctly decodes Electrum seed. I tested with

Code:

shield correct dragon addict sand ripple race chat earth field library coin

which should give bc1q30qm50yn5xlcl50grzrmytf3su9wpnlj6rt8l4

[o_e_l_e_o]

So if you put Electrum seed into Ian Coleman site I expect you end up with different addresses.

It actually just states "Invalid mnemonic" and will not let you proceed, unless you happened to create an Electrum seed phrase which is also a valid BIP39 seed phrase (this is no longer possible on newer versions of Electrum).

But there is a fork of that project: https://github.com/FarCanary/ElectrumSeedTester

Since OP created his seed phrase with Electrum, then playing around with different derivation paths is a futile exercise. Standard Electrum seed phrases always restore to m for legacy accounts and m/0' for segwit accounts.


If you are sure your seed phrase was generated in Electrum, then the only remaining possibility is that you have either made a mistake writing it down or you are making a mistake typing it back in. I would suggest using the software btcrecover to attempt to brute force where you mistake is - https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

[NeuroticFish]

(this is no longer possible on newer versions of Electrum)

Interesting. Thank you.
I've corrected the other post to match the actual reality.

[Lucius]

@abacusplatypus, if none of the above tips help, there is someone who is very likely to be able to help you, but that help is not free - the man has been in the business for a long time, and has an impeccable reputation.

Bitcoin Wallet Recovery Services

[larry_vw_1955]

imagine saving your electrum seed phrase very carefully and then you can't recover it. electrum might have some type of bug i wouldn't doubt it. it doesn't even run on my windows machine anymore. just stopped working completely. but i found a different computer to recover my coin.

[LoyceV]

imagine saving your electrum seed phrase very carefully and then you can't recover it.

It's very easy to prevent this by test-recovering your seed phrase before funding the wallet.

[PawGo]

imagine saving your electrum seed phrase very carefully and then you can't recover it.

It's very easy to prevent this by test-recovering your seed phrase before funding the wallet.

Isn't it a part of new wallet creation? Electrum force you to repeat the given seed.

[LoyceV]

Isn't it a part of new wallet creation? Electrum force you to repeat the given seed.

It does. But I prefer to be more thorough

[larry_vw_1955]

imagine saving your electrum seed phrase very carefully and then you can't recover it.

It's very easy to prevent this by test-recovering your seed phrase before funding the wallet.

That shouldn't really be necessary though. If electrum really works properly that is. But i guess anyone reading this thread will always do that from now on lol.

[pooya87]

That shouldn't really be necessary though. If electrum really works properly that is. But i guess anyone reading this thread will always do that from now on lol.

It is not about Electrum working properly or not, it is about the user writing the words on paper correctly. Doing everything from scratch to recover the wallet (eg. re-boot into cold storage OS, install Electrum, enter 12 words, etc.) makes sure they have done things correctly. It also has the benefit of actually trying to recover and learn how it should be done, like an exercise.

[abacusplatypus]

Thanks all for your feedback. If I can't recover the previous hard drive then I will try this brute force recovery or someone who has experience with recovery.

[TheBeardedBaby]

Just a tip. If you don't have an external hard drive box or cables and you cannot borrow them from someone. The fact that you spilled tea on your laptop not always means that the laptop is dead, of course if there were smoke coming out or sparks it's totally different case but it's less likely. Take away any batteries if possible and put it in rice ... yeah I know.

Basically nowadays the PCBs are protected with special coating to protect it from moisture, circuit shorting and bla bla and you can basically wash your motherboard in the sink (only the board, not the whole PC!!) I had many cases when coffee, cola or water had drowned a laptop but after a few days of drying all is back to normal. If it's not cleaned and dried properly after some time I've seen some corroded elements so the laptop won't have a long life if it's not threaded the way it should be, but for the case of wallet recovery should be fine.

All this has to be done with the warning that if you power it ON and it wasn't dry enough or had other damage there could be a "bang". It's not common but as it's not common to win a lottery well, there's always someone to win lottery, tho. Keep in mind, all is risk.

Good luck

[nc50lc]

-snip- and put it in rice ... yeah I know.

Oh no, that's our *Secret Asian Technique* to keep the moisture at bay :D

But I believe he already contacted someone (hopefully a trusted professional) to recover the drive as a response to LoyceV's suggestion.

[o_e_l_e_o]

If I can't recover the previous hard drive then I will try this brute force recovery or someone who has experience with recovery.

I would try brute forcing yourself first. In the event that you've simply misspelled a single word or swapped the location of two of your words, which are the most common errors people make, then the number of possibilities required to be brute forced is very low (24576 for a single incorrect word and only 132 for two swapped words) and could be done in a matter of seconds with the correct btcrecover set up. Even if all 12 words are in the wrong order you can descramble them in under an hour with reasonable hardware.

The readthedocs page I linked to earlier in this thread talks you through installing Python and btcrecover and is fairly comprehensive. If you run in to any problems, then let us know.

[larry_vw_1955]

It is not about Electrum working properly or not, it is about the user writing the words on paper correctly. Doing everything from scratch to recover the wallet (eg. re-boot into cold storage OS, install Electrum, enter 12 words, etc.) makes sure they have done things correctly. It also has the benefit of actually trying to recover and learn how it should be done, like an exercise.

But he said he entered the words down on paper very carefully. but people are insisting he made a mistake. that doesn't make any sense. those two things don't jive. i tend to believe him that he did write them down correctly because he insisted that was the case not just once but twice in this thread.

[LoyceV]

But he said he entered the words down on paper very carefully. but people are insisting he made a mistake. that doesn't make any sense.

I'd say it's much more likely for a user to make a mistake, than for Electrum to give the wrong seed phrase.

[pooya87]

But he said he entered the words down on paper very carefully. but people are insisting he made a mistake. that doesn't make any sense. those two things don't jive. i tend to believe him that he did write them down correctly because he insisted that was the case not just once but twice in this thread.

I've already covered all the possible scenarios that I can think of in my initial comment in this thread. I can't think of any other reason for this happening and unfortunately Electrum UI doesn't provide proper error messages to user to know where exactly the problem is coming from. A third party tool (used on an airgap system) is needed.
As LoyceV said it is very unlikely for Electrum to have a bug in this case, the seed class is pretty straight forward.

[larry_vw_1955]

]
 unfortunately Electrum UI doesn't provide proper error messages to user to know where exactly the problem is coming from.

of course not. no self-respecting wallet is going to just come out and tell you what the problem is. you're not supposed to know those kind of things. that's for devs to ponder over, not users themselves.

[larry_vw_1955]

I'd say it's much more likely for a user to make a mistake, than for Electrum to give the wrong seed phrase.

Maybe so but on the other hand, we can't really know for sure, can we? At least not until the matter receives a more in depth investigation and recovery attempt on his hard drive. Hopefully the service he uses doesn't cost too much and he can report back how they were able to successfully get his wallet off that tea stained platter. I wanna pull out the popcorn on this one!

[Abdussamad]

you can remove the drive form the old laptop and use it in a new machine. coffee spilt does not mean that the drive is damaged.