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Author Topic: hypothetical solution of corruption in politics  (Read 258 times)
figliar0
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September 27, 2021, 02:13:55 PM
 #1

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized.  During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?
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September 27, 2021, 03:36:30 PM
Merited by suchmoon (1)
 #2

I think at heart it's a good idea. I see two immediate problems, however. First, you're basically chasing away anyone who has already accumulated some wealth. Although they have got problems, enterprising people have got good ideas for how to run a country. Second, there's no way special interest groups wouldn't find a way to effectively bribe politicians – a Super PAC pays for their granddaughter's tuition to Harvard, for example.

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September 27, 2021, 04:39:54 PM
 #3

Corruption is indeed a disease that is detrimental, not only in an agency, it can even harm the whole country. Preventing by giving big paychecks probably won't work. It is human nature to always be greedy with wealth. The higher the salary, the more motivated they are for corruption. Maybe it would be more appropriate to punish him severely or the death penalty.
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September 28, 2021, 12:09:33 AM
 #4

Any politican or public servant who is a member of a "private members club" or who has any conflict of interest where they are open to corruption or bribery through lobby groups should be ruled out as a candidate for public service. Politicans should have an oversight body that is independent of political bias with the power to fire public servants and politicans who are in breach of their contract and the constitution.

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September 28, 2021, 12:44:48 AM
 #5

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized.  During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?


First of all, politicians should be licensed, pass professional exams (something like the FSO test, plus law and ethics).

As for their (or their family) net worth, it should be evaluated before they take office and every year after they leave office.
Basically, give them (and their family members) a tax audit every year, until they or their family members die.

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September 28, 2021, 05:02:23 AM
 #6

Voting for someone who then turns around and votes against them is a scam.
The solution to corruption is democracy and make everyone vote count. In blockchain times easy done.
Self-govenment the locical sensible solution.

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September 28, 2021, 06:25:24 AM
 #7

First, you're basically chasing away anyone who has already accumulated some wealth. Although they have got problems, enterprising people have got good ideas for how to run a country.

I don't see this as problem - it is by design. You have to loose something to gain power instead. It is proof that you mean it seriously when you are prepared to sacrifice something valuable to you. The gap beetween politician and simple people will be smaller in that case too. If you don't want to give up your wealth and you have some good idea, you can always promote it in other way without power to push it by force.

Second, there's no way special interest groups wouldn't find a way to effectively bribe politicians – a Super PAC pays for their granddaughter's tuition to Harvard, for example.

Yes indirect bribes are problem I dodn't thought about. In my country the majority of universities are public and the study are basically for free. There are some private universities too, but in general those are just for too_stupid_so_have_to_pay_it people. But yes - globally this can be a problem. Can you think up some other form of indirect bribe in this hypothetically scenario? I am sure that edu problem can have some simple and elegant solution.



Politicans should have an oversight body that is independent of political bias with the power to fire public servants and politicans who are in breach of their contract and the constitution.

This oversight body you are speaking about - aren't those courts?



Voting for someone who then turns around and votes against them is a scam.
The solution to corruption is democracy and make everyone vote count. In blockchain times easy done.
Self-govenment the locical sensible solution.

Nice. But it assumed technically educated people. And we need to solve the problem of buying/selling votes.
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September 28, 2021, 07:34:26 AM
 #8


OP is on the right path in some ways.

The 'killer app' for politics would be a public A(sk)M(e)A(nything) with the candidate subject to sophisticated neuro-analysis (and the readings available for open-source analysis.)

"If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."  Any potential candidate is free to make that choice and encouraged to do so.  Just go be a corporate CEO if you don't want to take the test...but be advised that if your corporation is going to go for tax-payer funded contracts you'll end up back in the hot-seat.

This technology exists.  In fact, the very (and very sophisticated) monitoring and control frameworks designed to keep the plebs in check could easily be reversed to 'clean up' politics and make 'democracy' work.  This nightmare scenario has been recognized by the folks populating WEF, CFR, UN, etc for a number of years now and they are documented to have been discussing it at the highest levels.  The potential catastrophe may indeed be one of the major motivating factors in the timing of the kick-off of the scamdemic.


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September 29, 2021, 03:21:06 PM
 #9


Second, there's no way special interest groups wouldn't find a way to effectively bribe politicians – a Super PAC pays for their granddaughter's tuition to Harvard, for example.

Yes indirect bribes are problem I dodn't thought about. In my country the majority of universities are public and the study are basically for free. There are some private universities too, but in general those are just for too_stupid_so_have_to_pay_it people. But yes - globally this can be a problem. Can you think up some other form of indirect bribe in this hypothetically scenario? I am sure that edu problem can have some simple and elegant solution.


So the edu problem has two simple and elegant solution.

Granddaughter tuition will be paid from public funds as other life costs of whole family. Still much cheaper than coruption, but we can insure that - if granddaughter do not use her education in future (she won't have a job related to education), family will returns all edu costs.

Or we just won't care about it at all. If politician will try to do a dirty business (push some law in accordance with some private interest for example) their family just loose living, practically becomes homeless without protection - so anyone can just hang them about their necks until their die Wink. IMHO some granddaughter education is not worth of it.

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September 30, 2021, 01:32:35 PM
Last edit: September 30, 2021, 02:14:15 PM by hornetsnest
 #10



Politicans should have an oversight body that is independent of political bias with the power to fire public servants and politicans who are in breach of their contract and the constitution.

This oversight body you are speaking about - aren't those courts?





Noted.Yes to a degree but the law societies of various countries are corrupt in themselves whereby legislators and those who sign off on proposed legislation collude to implement the policies of third parties outside of a nation states jurisdiction . There are many "private clubs" where both attorney general and "democratically elected" officials along with the "opposition" are invited to hear the "proposals" of those who believe they are the rightful owners of earth inc and are given incentives to impose policies rubber stamped to ensure they are bound by contractual laws whereby the next "democratically elected" reps will have neither enough years in office or the litigation skills to unravel such a legal contract not to mention the fiscal penalties involved. Most of these policies ensure control through government borrowing to spend on useless social policies that will insure a bloated public debt which will incrue interest ( imagine for one outrageous example in some fantasy world where guberment shut vast sections of the economies of the world and paid people to stay at home  Wink Wink). Privatisation of assets and resources then comes along to pay for this spending on worthless trinkets and services that are rolled up into financial instruments and sold to the people who end up owning the key assets and infrastructure through medium term notes,bonds,bank guarantees etc. Cool

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figliar0
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September 30, 2021, 01:56:18 PM
 #11

Politicans should have an oversight body that is independent of political bias with the power to fire public servants and politicans who are in breach of their contract and the constitution.
This oversight body you are speaking about - aren't those courts?
Noted.Yes to a degree but the law societies of various countries are corrupt in themselves whereby legislators and those who sign off on proposed legislation collude to implement the policies of third parties outside of a nation states jurisdiction . There are many "private clubs" where both attorney general and "democratically elected" officials along with the "opposition" are invited to hear the "proposals" of those who believe they are the rightful owners of earth inc and are given incentives to impose policies rubber stamped to ensure they are bound by contractual laws whereby the next "democratically elected" reps will have neither enough years in office or the litigation skills to unravel such a legal contract not to mention the fiscal penalties involved. Most of these policies ensure control through government borrowing to spend on useless social policies that will insure a bloated public debt which will incrue interest ( imagine for one outrageous example in some fantasy world where guberment shut vast sections of the economies of the world and paid people to stay at home  Wink Wink). Privatisation of assets and resources then comes along to pay for this spending on worthless trinkets and services that are rolled up into financial instruments and sold to the people who end up owning the key assets and infrastructure through medium term notes,bonds,bang guarantees etc. Cool

Well... I am a simple men, maybe don't understand these things very well. But back to topic - you were talking about some kind of independent oversight body. But how would it be possible to implement such a thing without risk it will become - lets say - less independed?
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September 30, 2021, 02:08:49 PM
 #12

Politicans should have an oversight body that is independent of political bias with the power to fire public servants and politicans who are in breach of their contract and the constitution.
This oversight body you are speaking about - aren't those courts?
Noted.Yes to a degree but the law societies of various countries are corrupt in themselves whereby legislators and those who sign off on proposed legislation collude to implement the policies of third parties outside of a nation states jurisdiction . There are many "private clubs" where both attorney general and "democratically elected" officials along with the "opposition" are invited to hear the "proposals" of those who believe they are the rightful owners of earth inc and are given incentives to impose policies rubber stamped to ensure they are bound by contractual laws whereby the next "democratically elected" reps will have neither enough years in office or the litigation skills to unravel such a legal contract not to mention the fiscal penalties involved. Most of these policies ensure control through government borrowing to spend on useless social policies that will insure a bloated public debt which will incrue interest ( imagine for one outrageous example in some fantasy world where guberment shut vast sections of the economies of the world and paid people to stay at home  Wink Wink). Privatisation of assets and resources then comes along to pay for this spending on worthless trinkets and services that are rolled up into financial instruments and sold to the people who end up owning the key assets and infrastructure through medium term notes,bonds,bang guarantees etc. Cool

Well... I am a simple men, maybe don't understand these things very well. But back to topic - you were talking about some kind of independent oversight body. But how would it be possible to implement such a thing without risk it will become - lets say - less independed?


You might be able to mitigate risk to some degree by having an "ombudsman" type of oversight body where the members are freely elected and NOT appointed. Appointments to boards are open to corruption as opposed to democratically elected member who can serve no more than 1 year without then having to be relected. Similiar to how state sherrifs in the US  are elected instead of nominated maybe as one example but there are other options. The key point is to ensure there is no political extremist allowed to sit in office or on an oversight board and only people without any conflict of interest whatsoever who cannot be biased for exampe siding with a far left politican because they too have similiar views etc. They should be thouroughly vetted to even pass as candidates and the vetting process most importantly must be without any corruption or bias and simply based on the constitution and its protection and in turn by default protects the rights of all citizens under its protection. This is just a general idea off the top of my head but the actual process would be simple in theory but complex in implementation to ensure double speak and the law itself is not twisted to suit any particular narrative. Third party interests disguised within populist narratives pushed through media upon ignorant masses are just as dangerous a threat to democracy as political corruption.

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September 30, 2021, 02:17:57 PM
 #13

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized.  During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?

No matter what you change in the rules, since they are going to be in control of all those things then you can't expect to be corruption free but instead of giving certain time period as ruler people can remove them from leader position at any time of majority people don't like them but no democratic country will implement this because it is going to cause danger to the politicians.
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September 30, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
 #14

...but no democratic country will implement this because it is going to cause danger to the politicians.

Yes, it is obvious. That's why I called it hypothetical. It is just a theory.
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September 30, 2021, 03:21:44 PM
 #15

Full transparent use of government money which public can access it anytime. Applying blockchain technology for all the government expenses with detailed attachment of the expenses. This will help to avoid corruption and abuse on power. Politicians are just powerful because they can use the government money as they own without being notice. But if imagine if they can't use the money, They will become just a normal employee with normal salary.

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September 30, 2021, 10:23:44 PM
 #16

What I can think of it is that every position in the highest place in the government should be paid little and above minimum for each country. This will determine who really have the heart of public service.
They won't be stopped on how they'll allocate the budget but all will be transparent and it's just the salary of them won't be that much.

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October 01, 2021, 09:10:06 AM
Merited by hornetsnest (1)
 #17

Full transparent use of government money which public can access it anytime. Applying blockchain technology for all the government expenses with detailed attachment of the expenses. This will help to avoid corruption and abuse on power. Politicians are just powerful because they can use the government money as they own without being notice. But if imagine if they can't use the money, They will become just a normal employee with normal salary.

IMHO money is just part of all this. Politicians are powerful because they can creates laws and people obey those, doesn't matter how stupid they are. Politicians have police in hand so they can force you to obey. And finally - they have money, so you cannot do anything with it - it is simple too hard to show politicians that you do not agree and not to be ignored.
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October 01, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
 #18

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized.  During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?


I think this is a good idea, but politicians will find a way to use this concept for corruption, and I envision how will they do it...

Politician 1 will claim an essential need for their family (Obviously not needed) but claimed to be essential, and politicians 2 3 4 and 5 will be his backer that it is essential thus will be approved. And this will go on and on, and by the end they will have high end gadgets, house and lots for their children's, multiple luxary cars, etc.

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October 02, 2021, 04:06:18 PM
 #19

I think this is a good idea, but politicians will find a way to use this concept for corruption, and I envision how will they do it...

Politician 1 will claim an essential need for their family (Obviously not needed) but claimed to be essential, and politicians 2 3 4 and 5 will be his backer that it is essential thus will be approved. And this will go on and on, and by the end they will have high end gadgets, house and lots for their children's, multiple luxary cars, etc.

Well, this won't work. Maybe they will gain some wealth, but they cannot keep it after next elections. Politicians simply cannot buy anything - because they do not have any money. Politicians will be a special kind of servants - they get humble living, some clothes, food to survive...

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October 02, 2021, 06:59:25 PM
 #20

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized.  During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?


It's a good proposal and helps rule out the monetary reward motivation factor. It could work once they are moderate and have no extremist leanings towards right or left spectrum and are absolutely subject to a strong constitution that protects the individual freedom of it's citizens and their nations public assets and natural resource wealth.

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