[WO/Hat-Gang Only - MODERATED] The fucking COVID vax thread (No hat? Fuck off!)

[Torque]

Let me put it this way, so that my point becomes clearer:

Suppose that a heart surgeon is corrupt, but he is the only heart surgeon available to operate on me. If I have a serious heart condition, I will have no choice but to visit that doctor. I don't like him, but it's my only option for an operation. I won't need to be friends with him. I won't need to hang out with him. I just want him to operate on me and save me. I will simply use his services. I could choose not to visit him and wait at home until a more ethical surgeon becomes available. Would that be a wise choice? You answer that.

No I would not, as any sane person would not, and you are crazy in your bent justification. Your mental gymnastics are truly incredible to behold.

Now that I know that you are batshit insane, I'm done having this conversation with you. I'm done. Especially since you seem to  have all this time to type a bunch of emotional nonsense, but still refuse to answer of my questions about vaccine EFFECTIVENESS with any actual science data.

Good luck with your fifty thousand jabs and boosters. I hope you don't die or have any side effects.

/ignore

Next time you go out shopping, or use any product, service, technology, medical help, or take any type of medicine, make absolutely sure to fully research the ethics of the companies behind those goods and services you're about to use. Be VERY prepared to be SURPRISED by the results.

If you fully and truly believe and respect your grandiose ethics, you should be a man about it, abandon everything in civilized society and go live in a cave, animal skin for clothes, stones for tools, the works. A proper cave-man. Just don't return to society crying like a little sissy whenever you feel a pain in your body or you catch a cold. No medicine for you, those pharmaceutical companies are so corrupt, how dare you put those poisons in your body. Better pray to Karhu for help.

Good luck waking up.

You just don't get it, do you?

Yes, I have had a number of vaccine shots (measles, mumps, chickenpox, tetanus, etc.) and have used and continue to use NUMEROUS pharmaceuticals on occasion in my lifetime, because they are relatively safe and very effective. And I will continue to do so when and where it make sense. And if there were another worldwide deadly virus outbreak like Smallpox, I would not hesitate to take the vaccine for it (provided it were safe and effective).

But the CV19 vaccines? No. Because they are neither safe nor effective. The collected science data so far, and my worldly observations, tells me this.

When it comes to your body and health, you personally have to evaluate everything in terms of risk vs. benefit, not just blindly follow what the establishment tells you that you should do. It's not an all or nothing, black or white scenario like you like to paint people in.

Back to /ignore

[1714008696]

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[1714008696]

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[AlcoHoDL]

Let me put it this way, so that my point becomes clearer:

Suppose that a heart surgeon is corrupt, but he is the only heart surgeon available to operate on me. If I have a serious heart condition, I will have no choice but to visit that doctor. I don't like him, but it's my only option for an operation. I won't need to be friends with him. I won't need to hang out with him. I just want him to operate on me and save me. I will simply use his services. I could choose not to visit him and wait at home until a more ethical surgeon becomes available. Would that be a wise choice? You answer that.

No I would not, as any sane person would not, and you are crazy in your bent justification. Your mental gymnastics are truly incredible to behold.

Now that I know that you are batshit insane, I'm done having this conversation with you. I'm done. Especially since you seem to  have all this time to type a bunch of emotional nonsense, but still refuse to answer of my questions about vaccine EFFECTIVENESS with any actual science data.

Good luck with your fifty thousand jabs and boosters. I hope you don't die or have any side effects.

/ignore

Next time you go out shopping, or use any product, service, technology, medical help, or take any type of medicine, make absolutely sure to fully research the ethics of the companies behind those goods and services you're about to use. Be VERY prepared to be SURPRISED by the results.

If you fully and truly believe and respect your grandiose ethics, you should be a man about it, abandon everything in civilized society and go live in a cave, animal skin for clothes, stones for tools, the works. A proper cave-man. Just don't return to society crying like a little sissy whenever you feel a pain in your body or you catch a cold. No medicine for you, those pharmaceutical companies are so corrupt, how dare you put those poisons in your body. Better pray to Karhu for help.

Good luck waking up.

You just don't get it, do you?

Yes, I have had a number of vaccine shots (measles, mumps, chickenpox, tetanus, etc.) and have used and continue to use NUMEROUS pharmaceuticals on occasion in my lifetime, because they are relatively safe and very effective. And I will continue to do so when it make sense.

But the CV19 vaccines? No. Because they are neither safe nor effective.

It's not an all or nothing scenario like you like to paint people.

Back to /ignore

OK, first it was ethics, now it's efficacy and safety.

So, what stops you from going under the knife with a corrupt, but otherwise very competent heart surgeon, when you know he can save you? How is this any different from using pharmaceuticals when you know, by your own admission, that the companies that make them are corrupt? Can you see the contradiction there? If anything, the corrupt doctor may ask for a few $$$$. With pharma we're talking $millionsbillions.

It seems that you conveniently adapt your criteria to suit your needs. When the doctor says you need to take a pill, ethics don't matter, as long as it's safe and effective and capable of saving you. When you are against vaccines, even when evidence shows they're effective to a significant degree and are capable of saving lives, it's all about ethics and the evil pharma.

BTW, I'm glad you've already dismissed the deliberate side-effects / engineered-to-kill theory -- this is also circulating on the interwebs and has quite a few supporters. I thought you were one of them, good to know you aren't.

To sum up (for the n-th time), I did my part, I posted my data, I analyzed them, it's all there for all to see and draw their own conclusions. Despite our heated exchanges, I wish you the best of luck, as I do to everyone out there.

Stay safe all!

[BobLawblaw]

...or take any type of medicine, make absolutely sure to fully research the ethics of the companies behind those goods and services you're about to use. Be VERY prepared to be SURPRISED by the results.

May I ask which concoction you exposed yourself to?

I would like to present to you many receipts amounting to exorbitant court awards doled out to plaintiffs, as a result of Big Pharma intentional malfeasance.

In this case, with whichever vendor it was, that produced the mRNA product you were injected with, presumably with informed consent.

[nanobtc]

I trust my family MD. He has been examining me, and directing my health plans and actions for years. He is young, aggressive, and follows 'new stuff'.  I was initially reluctant, because most vaccines take decades to develop. He said to do it, so I did.

There are a lot of things that I know more about than my doctor. Medicine/disease/vaccines is not one of them, so I trust what he says.

[BobLawblaw]

He said to do it, so I did.
There are a lot of things that I know more about than my doctor. Medicine/disease/vaccines is not one of them, so I trust what he says.

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/logical-fallacies-appeal-to-authority-250336

Come on man. As a Bitcoiner, "Don't trust. Verify" should be burned into our brains by now.

[AlcoHoDL]

...or take any type of medicine, make absolutely sure to fully research the ethics of the companies behind those goods and services you're about to use. Be VERY prepared to be SURPRISED by the results.

May I ask which concoction you exposed yourself to?

I would like to present to you many receipts amounting to exorbitant court awards doled out to plaintiffs, as a result of Big Pharma intentional malfeasance.

In this case, with whichever vendor it was, that produced the mRNA product you were injected with, presumably with informed consent.

Bob, I don't know what you mean by that. I already know full well that pharma is corrupt. Sadly, this is how things are, this is where things tend to settle, companies start small & ethical and the ones that grow big also get corrupted along the way, pharma or otherwise. Maybe corruption is even necessary for a company to grow big... I was merely replying to Torque's post, telling him that, according to his grandiose ethics, he should be thoroughly ethics-checking every company whose products he uses, and immediately stop using their products if he spots any corruption -- which is absurd in the real world and leads to Kaczynski-style caveman lifestyles.

On to your Q: The vaccine I got was from BIONTECH MANUFACTURING GMBH, GERMANY.

I'm sure they've received tons of lawsuits, as have most, if not all, big companies in the world, pharma or otherwise. It comes with the territory. When you're big, you'll be sued, and rightly so, in many cases, and that's that.

I also very much want to sue Micro$oft for the torture they're putting me through every day, by being forced to use their OS. The thing is, the s/w I'm using at work is the best in the world in its class, but only runs on Windows and is essential to my work. I don't have a choice, as I value the quality of my designs infinitely more than tolerating and using the products of evil M$.

[psycodad]

I trust my family MD. He has been examining me, and directing my health plans and actions for years. He is young, aggressive, and follows 'new stuff'.  I was initially reluctant, because most vaccines take decades to develop. He said to do it, so I did.

There are a lot of things that I know more about than my doctor. Medicine/disease/vaccines is not one of them, so I trust what he says.

I trust my banker, he has been doing all our families money business for decades. He is older, very smart and studied economics (<- science angle). Since he helped me transfer fiat to kraken, he knew I have some bitcoin. He called me today and recommended to sell this internet fantasy money, the bubble will pop he said.

I didn't.

<snip>

On to your Q: The vaccine I got was from BIONTECH MANUFACTURING GMBH, GERMANY.

I'm sure they've received tons of lawsuits, as have most, if not all, big companies in the world, pharma or otherwise. It comes with the territory. When you're big, you'll be sued, and rightly so, in many cases, and that's that.

I also very much want to sue Micro$oft for the torture they're putting me through every day, by being forced to use their OS. The thing is, the s/w I'm using at work is the best in the world in its class, but only runs on Windows. I don't have a choice, as I value the quality of my designs infinitely more than tolerating and using the products of evil M$.

Don't you know that the contracts that governments signed to get the wonderjabs (which are to be kept secret forever, which is part of the contracts) grant the companies immunity from any sueing? Only the government can be sued and i.e. our government limited damages to what equals ~$75k.

Do not compare that to an Aspirin where you can sue Bayer if you get harmed by it.



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[AlcoHoDL]

<snip>

On to your Q: The vaccine I got was from BIONTECH MANUFACTURING GMBH, GERMANY.

I'm sure they've received tons of lawsuits, as have most, if not all, big companies in the world, pharma or otherwise. It comes with the territory. When you're big, you'll be sued, and rightly so, in many cases, and that's that.

I also very much want to sue Micro$oft for the torture they're putting me through every day, by being forced to use their OS. The thing is, the s/w I'm using at work is the best in the world in its class, but only runs on Windows. I don't have a choice, as I value the quality of my designs infinitely more than tolerating and using the products of evil M$.

Don't you know that the contracts that governments signed to get the wonderjabs (which are to be kept secret forever, which is part of the contracts) grant the companies immunity from any sueing? Only the government can be sued and i.e. our government limited damages to what equals ~$75k.

Do not compare that to an Aspirin where you can sue Bayer if you get harmed by it.

Yes, I've heard of that. Luckily I'm not planning on suing any pharma company, for now at least.

On a related note, when my mother had to have a hip surgery, as a legal guardian, due to her age, I had to sign a document mentioning that there was a 1/4 chance of death and if she died, the surgeon and hospital would bear no responsibility. This is standard procedure, otherwise they wouldn't operate. Two choices: 1. Let my mum stay crippled in bed forever. 2. Sign the document and let the doctors operate. I chose (2). Operation was successful.

[psycodad]

<snip>

On to your Q: The vaccine I got was from BIONTECH MANUFACTURING GMBH, GERMANY.

I'm sure they've received tons of lawsuits, as have most, if not all, big companies in the world, pharma or otherwise. It comes with the territory. When you're big, you'll be sued, and rightly so, in many cases, and that's that.

I also very much want to sue Micro$oft for the torture they're putting me through every day, by being forced to use their OS. The thing is, the s/w I'm using at work is the best in the world in its class, but only runs on Windows. I don't have a choice, as I value the quality of my designs infinitely more than tolerating and using the products of evil M$.

Don't you know that the contracts that governments signed to get the wonderjabs (which are to be kept secret forever, which is part of the contracts) grant the companies immunity from any sueing? Only the government can be sued and i.e. our government limited damages to what equals ~$75k.

Do not compare that to an Aspirin where you can sue Bayer if you get harmed by it.

Yes, I've heard of that. Luckily I'm not planning on suing any pharma company, for now at least.

On a related note, when my mother had to have a hip surgery, as a legal guardian, due to her age, I had to sign a document mentioning that there was a 1/4 chance of death and if she died, the surgeon and hospital would bear no responsibility. This is standard procedure, otherwise they wouldn't operate. Two choices: 1. Let my mum stay crippled in bed forever. 2. Sign the document and let the doctors operate. I chose (2). Operation was successful.

I have no intention to sue my car manufacturer too right now, but I know it keeps him from gross negligence when he knows I "could* sue him if my brakes just suddenly stopped doing their job.

Yes, that's true for any surgery BUT if they totally fuck up you can still sue them contrary to the vaccines.
Still the comparison is totally off, it would be a good comparison if you signed a blank sheet for your mothers surgery and they could fill in later whatever they want and never show you and the (secret) contents would supersede any law in your country. Then the situation is comparable to the vaccination contracts and the individual having these vaccines administered.
The same is btw valid for the prices to be paid per dose, totally secret. Then know that these plants producing the experimental drugs have been mainly built from government moneys, no big investments there from them, just taking profits.

[AlcoHoDL]

<snip>

On to your Q: The vaccine I got was from BIONTECH MANUFACTURING GMBH, GERMANY.

I'm sure they've received tons of lawsuits, as have most, if not all, big companies in the world, pharma or otherwise. It comes with the territory. When you're big, you'll be sued, and rightly so, in many cases, and that's that.

I also very much want to sue Micro$oft for the torture they're putting me through every day, by being forced to use their OS. The thing is, the s/w I'm using at work is the best in the world in its class, but only runs on Windows. I don't have a choice, as I value the quality of my designs infinitely more than tolerating and using the products of evil M$.

Don't you know that the contracts that governments signed to get the wonderjabs (which are to be kept secret forever, which is part of the contracts) grant the companies immunity from any sueing? Only the government can be sued and i.e. our government limited damages to what equals ~$75k.

Do not compare that to an Aspirin where you can sue Bayer if you get harmed by it.

Yes, I've heard of that. Luckily I'm not planning on suing any pharma company, for now at least.

On a related note, when my mother had to have a hip surgery, as a legal guardian, due to her age, I had to sign a document mentioning that there was a 1/4 chance of death and if she died, the surgeon and hospital would bear no responsibility. This is standard procedure, otherwise they wouldn't operate. Two choices: 1. Let my mum stay crippled in bed forever. 2. Sign the document and let the doctors operate. I chose (2). Operation was successful.

I have no intention to sue my car manufacturer too right now, but I know it keeps him from gross negligence when he knows I "could* sue him if my brakes just suddenly stopped doing their job.

Yes, that's true for any surgery BUT if they totally fuck up you can still sue them contrary to the vaccines.
Still the comparison is totally off, it would be a good comparison if you signed a blank sheet for your mothers surgery and they could fill in later whatever they want and never show you and the (secret) contents would supersede any law in your country. Then the situation is comparable to the vaccination contracts and the individual having these vaccines administered.
The same is btw valid for the prices to be paid per dose, totally secret. Then know that these plants producing the experimental drugs have been mainly built from government moneys, no big investments there from them, just taking profits.

OK, let's assume that what you're saying is true (no reason to doubt you for the benefit of our discussion). So, what do we do? Stay unprotected because we haven't seen the contracts or because we can't sue the company but only the government? Or get the only protection currently available, that has been shown to protect us to a significant degree and can save lives?

Using your good comparison version of my example: I'm at the hospital. My mother needs a surgery. The doctors give me a blank sheet of paper and ask me to sign it, or else they won't operate. Situation is the same to any hospital I go to.

Two choices: 1. Let my mum stay crippled in bed forever. 2. Sign the blank sheet of paper and let the doctors operate.

What would you have done in this case?

[bitebits]

[shahzadafzal]

Winter is coming…




Edit:
You might be thinking if it’s a joke…
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/

[Torque]

I trust my family MD. He has been examining me, and directing my health plans and actions for years. He is young, aggressive, and follows 'new stuff'.  I was initially reluctant, because most vaccines take decades to develop. He said to do it, so I did.

There are a lot of things that I know more about than my doctor. Medicine/disease/vaccines is not one of them, so I trust what he says.

I trust my banker, he has been doing all our families money business for decades. He is older, very smart and studied economics (<- science angle). Since he helped me transfer fiat to kraken, he knew I have some bitcoin. He called me today and recommended to sell this internet fantasy money, the bubble will pop he said.

I didn't.

For over a decade I blindly trusted my supposedly smart accountant with regard to financials and investing, until that fateful day in 2013 when he found out that I had heavily invested in Bitcoin. He told me that it was a complete scam, and that I should sell it all immediately.

Thank god I didn't listen to that fool. And then I promptly fired him, and went on with my life.

Now I'm bitcoin wealthy and retired.

Btw, he is still slaving away as an accountant.

Don't trust, verify.

[OutOfMemory]

Winter is coming…




Edit:
You might be thinking if it’s a joke…
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/

Huh?
1. Haven't they seen the latest numbers from London?
Omicron is cutting through the vaccinated like a hot knife through butter.

2. Omicron is not reported to be "milder".
...but it seems to lead to less hospitalization/intensive care rates.

3. Omicron is replicating primarily in different tissues than Delta.
This means the bodies LOCAL immune response (coughing, sneezing) will be more effective in combating of most of the viral load.

4. Boosters work, but not at the early stages of infection.
This means spreading the virus by vaccinated people is still a treat.

5. Boosters work NOW, (EDIT: In the Lab!). But what about 3, 6, 9 or 12 months later?
Decreasing immunity is a known issue.

6. Secondary effects (a.k.a. network effects) are not even looked at.
Imagine millions over millions of symptomatic infections in the population, more or less simultaneously. Regardless of how mild the symptoms are, the effect of too many people getting sick at the same time has the power to bring the system to its knees.

I can't fucking believe that so called EXPERTS are not looking at these aspects, clearly seen in other places of the world, with the UK as a current example.
Seems like the USA will be fucked over again by the incompetence of their leaders.
*Omicron silently chuckling in the background*

Over here in Europe, we are only a few weeks ahead. Watch what happens in January.
Can't stop to SMH, really.

[dragonvslinux]

Having had a scientific education myself, I really dislike this 'dyor' mantra that is going around. As it presupposes you should not trust the research (the real, peer-reviewed scientific research) done by people who actually know what they are talking about.

one thing i discovered when "doing my own research" on covid was that i actually knew jack shit about it. i have no degree in virology or epidemiology and such.

so i trust people who do have some expertise in the medical field. and those are MDs that i worked with and MDs that i entrust my care to (about a dozen). all recommended the vaccine and have taken it themselves.

I agree with these sentiments a lot. I haven't dedicated years of my to the study of medicine, virology and epidemiology, and most of the public haven't either. This leads a lot of people to believe in lots of conspiracy theories from dubious and unreliable sources, rather than from trusted and peer-reviewed. From misinterpreting biology to misrepresenting various statistical data, alas it leads to the spread of a lot of misinformation.  I therefore realise this isn't a case of "don't trust, verify", because it becomes almost impossible to verify information provided without in-depth experience in numerous fields. Personally I've been waiting patiently for the results to come in from this vaccine roll-out, in order to be peer-reviewed by third-party experts in these fields. Numerous experts have now raised their serious concerns over various practices taken place, somewhat as anticipated given how quickly this vaccine was approved.

It's therefore no surprise there are numerous sceptical doctors and scientists out there who are "vaccine hesitant" as they say, because they are the exact people who are able to verify, in order to trust, but haven't been able to verify many claims currently circulated. As some of you may know, the British Medical Journal have published their peer-reviewed concerns of data integrity issues based on a variety of evidence provided, that the FDA ignored. For anyone unfamiliar with the world of medicine, especially in the UK, the BMJ is the world's oldest general medical journals, and widely well-respected. It'd be a lie to say they aren't biased, as it's published by the British Medical Association (BMA) trade union, therefore the current mandates on NHS staff should be taken into consideration here. Simply put, it's similar to the CDC having a bias for being government based, being it's a national public healthy agency of the US, so far from independent.

What's even more concerning here, is Facebook claimed "Independent fact-checkers say this information could mislead people." regarding this article being shared. Like, seriously? A social media platform that's been around for 20 years are suddenly medical and trial experts, compared to the BMJ that have been around for 150 years researching and publishing these topics? Have Facebook been given copies of the evidence provided to BMJ, if not, how would they be able to know that the information provided is untrue? The BMJ even wrote to Facebook claiming  "We find the "fact check" performed by Lead Stories to be inaccurate, incompetent and irresponsible.". For me this is terrifying, the fact that peer-reviewed information published by a leading scientific journal is being censored by social media giants, with little no so scientific reasoning or experience no doubt.

This clearly means that if there were serious risks of the vaccine, either past or present, they'd almost certainly be censored. Note how also mainstream media completely failed to report these concerns to the public, who clearly deserve to know, no doubt because it would increase "vaccine hesitancy", even if in reality it help would to explain this hesitancy within the medical community much better, by a vaccinated expert ironically. Apparently, we can't even trust these experts anymore. This obviously isn't the first time peer-reviewed science by experts published in a respected medical journal has been treated as "misinformation" by the media either, it's worth noting. This low toleration towards independent media, especially by experts, is unfortunately one of the terrifying traits of a dictatorship. I therefore refuse to trust social media and mainstream media to be the scientific experts, overriding the importance of peer-reviewed science, especially from third-party, well-respected and independent sources.

Personally, I'll continue to trust the experts. Ignore the conspiracy theories and poorly sourced articles, stick with the independent peer-reviewed medical journals, as well as leading experts in these fields. I'd love for any pro-vaxxers to tell me, from their non-expert scientific background, exactly why and how these types of experts are wrong here. To demand transparency for peer review, as well as reporting on evidence of poor data integrity. I guess to some it may seem like BMJ are trying to "stir shit up" as they say, but in reality they have a duty of care, with little to nothing to gain, unlike social media or mainstream media. If there are legitimate concerns of poor medical practices based on sufficient evidence, they have a duty to report them. Fortunately enough doctors, many of whom are vaccinated, are beginning to shed light on these data integrity issues. Because they can't be ignored now they have been brought to light.

Then there is the case of the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) withholding the Pfizer vaccine safety data (post roll-out) after an FOI request by a Public Health and Medical Professionals transparency group, claiming it would take 55 years to release the data for peer review. Fortunately a Judge overruled that, and the first 3 months of data (December 2020 to February 2021) was released, 7 months after submitting the FOI, then leaked as there is a legal disclaimer about it not being revealed to the public. Despite regarding public safety ironically. Notably the FDA themselves rejected Pfizer's first submission, as the cumulative analysis was non-existent and the subsequent submission wasn't that much better either (lack of a better source for now). It shouldn't even be an issue demanding transparency from Pfizer and the FDA, after all the vaccine is perfectly safe right, so what do they have to hide? Turns out, more than enough.

I've read and analysed enough studies to know that when there is no "total numbers" to compare data with, it makes it a piss poor study. This is one area of statistics that you don't need to be an expert at. Ie out of 1200+ deaths (Pfizer's own numbers, no conspiracy) from this period post vaccine, it's impossible to know how many people you'd expect to die during that period, regardless of taking the vaccine, in order to know if the deaths could be related or not. The 3:1 ratio of cases regarding females vs males also requires some explanation, up to 4:1 for certain side effects, despite Pfizer considering it irrelevant. The median risk is now confirmed as 31-50 (again Pfizer's own numbers), which as someone in this age bracket naturally makes the vaccine less appealing, for obvious risk reasons. I had also naively believed that Pfizer was engaging in active data collection, at least during the initial roll-out of the vaccine, but alas it was only passive, again reducing the reliability of this study.

No doubt it'll take many more months for this data to be analysed in-depth by experts in field, as well as for more of these safety reports to be released, hopefully not 55 years. Ideally I'd like to take this vaccine with a year or two, not sure I'll make it to 2076 before this data finally get's the peer-review it deserves. Ideally there will be less missing information declared in future safety reports released. I'm otherwise not surprised the FDA tried to withhold this information to the public, given the liability they could face for approving a vaccine without good enough data analysis. Unlike Pfizer, as they are already immune from this legally speaking. For many pro-vaxxers this report was a real setback it seems, the transparency group is a good mix of those wanting proof of safety, while others are looking for proof of danger. Unfortunately, it hasn't settled many debates, and only generated further cause for concern it seems.

For now I remain pro-vaxxer as well as pro-choice. Everyone should have the opportunity to take this vaccine, especially those who are at high risk. But people should be aware of the risks, even if they are minimal, or extremely low, as well as data integrity issues. Knowing that the practices of the Pfizer trial were piss-poor (as experts in this field have reported), and the safety data during the roll-out doesn't look much better, personally I'm struggling to see enough evidence that this vaccine is safe or not. I'll remain open-minded, follow the experts, as well as consider their bias'. Many people, such as myself, simply want transparency surrounding this vaccine and it's data, and so far, this hasn't been possible to gain.

[vapourminer]

For over a decade I blindly trusted my supposedly smart accountant with regard to financials and investing, until that fateful day in 2013 when he found out that I had heavily invested in Bitcoin. He told me that it was a complete scam, and that I should sell it all immediately.

Thank god I didn't listen to that fool. And then I promptly fired him, and went on with my life.

my financial guy said to unload at least a good chunk of corn when he found out. as it was extremely risky back then (years ago).. and that is his job. i expected nothing less when i told him.

if a financial guy (back then) did NOT say to dump most all or a large chunk of btc i would of fired them. as he would of been remiss.

so i actually dont get that attitude of firing him for doing his job..  its their duty to tell you what they recommend. you certainly dont have to follow it.

anyway its off topic in bobs off topic thread so ill leave it at that.

[OutOfMemory]

For now I remain pro-vaxxer as well as pro-choice.

That's the way.
Everybody else could also be anti-vaxxer as well as pro-choice.
The pro-choice part is the consent to define and maintain a society's integrity, while dividing people would be hard to accomplish in such a setting.
This is a viral pandemic, it is a small detail of Life, the way nature (another one of zillions of expressions of Life) handles this is more or less set.
It's us humans who generally identify approach challenges like this as "problems" and the illusion that we can actually fully control it.
The bad news is, we can't. We can try. But it may well be a difficult test for us to accept this and go on, working with what we have, trying to keep what we have achieved before. At the time, a phase of despair seems to establish itself, imho.
 

[Torque]

For now I remain pro-vaxxer as well as pro-choice.

That's the way.
Everybody else could also be anti-vaxxer as well as pro-choice.

That's just it, anti-vaxxers ARE pro-choice. We are just defending ourselves and our personal decisions. We don't give fuck what others do with their body and health, and we certainly aren't advocating or pushing for what others should or shouldn't do. Leave us alone, and let us be.

It's the fanatical pro-vaxxers out there that are on the attack. They want to plead with, belittle, mock, patronize, and condescend anyone who chooses not to get the vaccine. They want to push for mandates, to force *everyone* to take the vaccines, and to carry around vaccine papers to access places or privileges. They want to vaccinate their toddlers and children, and applaud when others do so as well. They applaud when people lose their jobs over refusing to get vaccinated. And they want everyone to continue wearing masks, basically forever. Supposedly for the "greater good". With absolutely no data or evidence to prove the efficacy of the vaccines. None. And they seem totally ok with constant lockdowns, and losing their civil liberties and freedoms day by day. They literally don't care about that!

The fanatical ones are anti-choice and anti-freedom for sure. _{(notice I said "the fanatical ones", it doesn't apply to all in favor of the vaccines)}

It's been 2 fucking years now this shit has been going on. TWO fucking years! And here we are STILL fighting about it. This all ends when people stop complying with all these draconian policies and go about their lives. This all ends when people leave each other the fuck alone to make their own personal health choices, and to respect each others rights. Everyone.

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Winter is coming…




Edit:
You might be thinking if it’s a joke…
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/

Huh?
1. Haven't they seen the latest numbers from London?
Omicron is cutting through the vaccinated like a hot knife through butter.

2. Omicron is not reported to be "milder".
...but it seems to lead to less hospitalization/intensive care rates.

3. Omicron is replicating primarily in different tissues than Delta.
This means the bodies LOCAL immune response (coughing, sneezing) will be more effective in combating of most of the viral load.

4. Boosters work, but not at the early stages of infection.
This means spreading the virus by vaccinated people is still a treat.

5. Boosters work NOW, (EDIT: In the Lab!). But what about 3, 6, 9 or 12 months later?
Decreasing immunity is a known issue.

6. Secondary effects (a.k.a. network effects) are not even looked at.
Imagine millions over millions of symptomatic infections in the population, more or less simultaneously. Regardless of how mild the symptoms are, the effect of too many people getting sick at the same time has the power to bring the system to its knees.

I can't fucking believe that so called EXPERTS are not looking at these aspects, clearly seen in other places of the world, with the UK as a current example.
Seems like the USA will be fucked over again by the incompetence of their leaders.
*Omicron silently chuckling in the background*

Over here in Europe, we are only a few weeks ahead. Watch what happens in January.
Can't stop to SMH, really.

Your 2. is contrary to every piece of info I have gathered so far, both for SA and UK.
Any sources?
Also, isn`t "less hospitalization/intensive care rates" the definition of "milder"?

Regarding 3.
Yes, O is in fact replicating mainly in the bronchi/the lining of the passage as opposed to the lung tissue itself - which is what D did.
University of Hongkong did a study on that (currently under peer review).
This points towards less severity as well (no/not so much filling up of lung tissue with fluid --> you can still breathe).
You exhale loads and loads of virus particles, though.

6. is the big question mark indeed. O is multiplying 70 times faster than D (Hongkong study).

[dragonvslinux]

For now I remain pro-vaxxer as well as pro-choice.

Everybody else could also be anti-vaxxer as well as pro-choice.

For sure, without extremism from either pro-vaxx or anti-vaxx, everyone is able to be pro-choice as well as unite around this idea (ideally). It seems fortunately most people do this, at least where I'm based where covid passes and their segregation haven't widely been implemented yet, due to the current controversies that surround them. Both sides are even able to be pro-freedom, pro-democracy, pro freedom of speech. It's all possible! In an ideal world of course... but instead anti-vaxxers become heavily stigmatised for their choice (not even opinions), while extremist pro-vaxxers get considerable sympathy for their opinions.

I personally think a near majority of vaccinated people don't want to see the discrimination of people based on their "health status", leaving the extremists as a fringe group for now.

That's just it, anti-vaxxers ARE pro-choice.

Personally I don't find that all anti-vaxxers are pro-choice by default, when trying to convince people not to take a vaccine with scare mongering conspiracy theories for example, when arguably it does appear to be relatively effective at reducing death and serious harm, despite the uncalculated risks. Just like when pro-vaxx extremists try and convince others to take the vaccine by arguing they are putting people's lives in danger. Emotional blackmail isn't very pro-choice either, it's simply manipulative bullshit. Neither is politicians consistently moving the goalposts, claiming initially that high-enough adoption rate would reduce the spread of the virus, as well as free up the hospitals. It's doing the latter, but completely failed at the former, I don't think there's any denying that now. It's clearly time for a reality check imo, while other professionals demand transparency and are generally shocked with their findings. The pandemic looks like a complete mess that's worsening, not improving despite all the measures.

I've otherwise always found it ironic how if someone vaccinated gives someone covid (whether vaccinated/unvaccinated, irrelevant), it's not considered killing them, compared to someone unvaccinated giving someone vaccinated covid. There are double standards for sure, especially when the vaccine is a personal choice that's designed to give you the required protection from this virus. So either it does this well or it doesn't. Surely everyone should be responsible for putting themselves in danger by being around others, not the other way around. But alas, the lockdowns say differently. With cases rising 20-40x since widespread vaccine adoption took off, it's doesn't take a mathematician to see it's not very effective at reducing the spread of covid, at least in comparison to the "first wave" pre-vaccine levels. Hard to argue with the data right now.

So bored of this vaccine adoption bullshit in general, to me it seems like the least effective vaccine at "containing" a virus that's ever been created, while others will argue the virus is simply the most contagious. The war on covid will likely go down in history alongside the war on drugs and the war on terrorism. Wars that have no end and instead increase the spread of the target that it's designed to eradicate or contain.