[Guide] How to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

[n0nce]

Everyone should have the opportunity to run a node.

I strongly believe that it's one of Bitcoin's core values to have as many full nodes (and preferably also miners, but that's another story ) as possible, distributed in as many households as possible.

While cool node boxes, composed of all-new hardware with SSDs and sexy metal cases can be built for between 200€ and 300€ (or dollars!), that might still be too much for many people. Especially in countries where wages are lower, I understand that this can be an infeasibly large sum of money.

MyNode and Argon One m.2 enclosures, full setup ~250€

The good news: it can be achieved much cheaper than the above mentioned figures! In fact, it can even be free if you have old hardware lying around.
The fact of the matter is, Bitcoin Core doesn't need a whole lot of resources and a 10-year-old, decommissioned laptop or Desktop PC might have enough power to run it.

So I would like to encourage everybody that's not running a node yet, to reconsider it if price for the device itself or an SSD was the main deterring factor.

Hardware selection
Almost any kind of desktop PC, laptop, NUC-type device of the last 10 years should suffice.

Make sure you can swap the drive (they are usually dead after such a long time) and you have a working PSU for it.
Anything else - screen, keyboard, trackpad, speakers, it can all be broken. You will SSH into the machine anyway and you can connect to a HDMI screen + USB keyboard during setup.
This kind of hardware is very often given away for free if you ask around friends and family, or got cheaply (or free) on craigslist.

Recommendations
RAM: 4GB - 8GB (Even as little as 1GB can suffice! If you have more, it's better of course See my graph down below about sync time with 4 vs 8GB)
Drive: 500GB - 1TB (HDD is fine, but SSD will help for faster initial sync. 500 will not last long and not suffice for Lightning and Electrum server - 1TB would be advised!)
CPU: Intel Core i3 (2nd generation or up tested and working just fine) or better - dual core is advised by me

If the machine you acquired, doesn't meet those specs, you can in many cases just add more RAM or swap the hard drive.
I would stay away from Chromebooks with non-replaceable drives and RAM since they're usually too small and USB drives aren't convenient.

Price
Of course, this low price is mainly made possible by relying on free and cheap old & used stuff.
The final price will depend a lot on how many things you can find for free, but it's possible to build a node from scratch for around $50.
I personally built one of my nodes off a gifted laptop that had no charger, so the person wanted to throw it away. I just bought the PSU for ~20€ and added an existing 500GB USB HDD for the bitcoin directory. So that node cost me just 20€. Here's a setup if you really can't find anything for free.

Example setup for $58:^{[JUST QUICKLY CHECKED EBAY!]}
Laptop without RAM and charger for $29:


4GB RAM for $10:


Laptop charger for $10:


500GB HDD for $9:


Of course, shipping adds up and I actually surpassed my $50 limit already. But I just checked eBay 'buy now' section very quickly! If you search locally, ask around, you will easily find someone who will give you an old laptop that doesn't turn on anymore (often broken charger and / or battery) or with cracked screen etc. for free.
Then you just source the charger and a new HDD for a total of $20!

If you actually have a working (but old) laptop already, with charger and everything, maybe invest the full $50 into a new SSD for better performance and longevity!

TL;DR
Get as much free and cheap used, old stuff as possible and slap it together!
I know it's not the 'deepest' topic that exists, but it's mainly to explain and show figuratively that running a node can be done very, very cheap and storage size is not an issue either, since HDDs are so damn cheap and can easily be swapped out.

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[DaveF]

And keep in mind, if you want to go RPi you don't need the cool looking case. 4GB RPi4, USB drive, microSD and power supply. If you take your time and look for sales you can easily get it for under $130. Which as n0nce pointed out might still be a lot of money for some, but it's still below the $200 to $300 to make it all pretty.

In addition to the getting stuff from friends, or putting it together yourself 2nd hand shops also at times have really good deals, you just have to spend some time to search them out.

-Dave

[BlackHatCoiner]

Great guide n0nce! The headline takes the cake.

And keep in mind, if you want to go RPi you don't need the cool looking case. 4GB RPi4, USB drive, microSD and power supply. If you take your time and look for sales you can easily get it for under $130.

But, isn't the case required? The CPU will be running 24/7/365. It won't live as it would with the cooling case. At this point I'd like to say that many have hard drives lying around, me included. Just use one of those.

This is why it came €90 to me.

• Raspberry Pi 4 Model 4 - 4GB. (€52)
• Power Supply of RPi. (€8)
• Memory card 32GB. (€6.5)
• Argon One aluminum case. (€24)

[ABCbits]

500GB HDD for $9:

Buying used HDD feels like testing your luck, i won't recommend it. Refurbished HDD is better option since the factory perform few test. Additionally, you could visit your local hardware store and might find unused/unsold HDD which produced 10 years ago.

And keep in mind, if you want to go RPi you don't need the cool looking case. 4GB RPi4, USB drive, microSD and power supply. If you take your time and look for sales you can easily get it for under $130.

But, isn't the case required? The CPU will be running 24/7/365. It won't live as it would with the cooling case. In this point I'd like to say that many have hard drives lying around, me included. Just use one of those.

It's optional, passive heatsink and placing it on place with room temperate also works.

[DaveF]

Great guide n0nce! The headline takes the cake.

And keep in mind, if you want to go RPi you don't need the cool looking case. 4GB RPi4, USB drive, microSD and power supply. If you take your time and look for sales you can easily get it for under $130.

But, isn't the case required? The CPU will be running 24/7/365. It won't live as it would with the cooling case. In this point I'd like to say that many have hard drives lying around, me included. Just use one of those.

This is why it came €90 to me.

• Raspberry Pi 4 Model 4 - 4GB. (€52)
• Power Supply of RPi. (€8)
• Memory card 32GB. (€6.5)
• Argon One aluminum case. (€24)

You can get a case with a fan for a lot less money:
https://www.amazon.com/TangYY-Raspberry-Case-Heatsink-Blue/dp/B07VGV1D3Z/

Although it's only a dollar or 2 cheaper umbrel and mynode only need a 16GB card, raspiblitz SAYS 32 gb it does fit on a 16GB

Code:

***********************************
* RaspiBlitz Commandline
* Here be dragons .. have fun :)
***********************************
Bitcoin command line options: bitcoin-cli help
LND command line options: lncli -h
Back to main menu use command: raspiblitz

admin@raspberrypi:~ $ df
Filesystem     1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root       14987608  11983196   2347696  84% /
devtmpfs         3991376         0   3991376   0% /dev
tmpfs            4025968         0   4025968   0% /dev/shm
tmpfs            4025968    369172   3656796  10% /run
tmpfs               5120         0      5120   0% /run/lock
tmpfs            4025968         0   4025968   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs              32768         8     32760   1% /var/cache/raspiblitz
/dev/mmcblk0p1    258095     30053    228042  12% /boot
/dev/sda1      960379920 528770100 382755396  59% /mnt/hdd
tmpfs             805192         0    805192   0% /run/user/1000
tmpfs             805192         0    805192   0% /run/user/1001

And if you don't have a drive and can wait a bit for a sale name brand 1TB external drives can be had for $40

Once again, this is US pricing I don't know how much more or less these things are in other parts of the world.

-Dave

[n0nce]

Buying used HDD feels like testing your luck, i won't recommend it. Refurbished HDD is better option since the factory perform few test. Additionally, you could visit your local hardware store and might find unused/unsold HDD which produced 10 years ago.

Yes, it was just an example how to get a sufficient drive quick and cheap And I mean worst case; if it breaks it was just some bucks and you replace the HDD. It's not like you're going to be storing personal data or BTC on it. Just replace and resync. But sure - you can get new or barely used disks for around the same price.

But, isn't the case required? The CPU will be running 24/7/365. It won't live as it would with the cooling case.

Depending on the Pi model, a passive heatsink and maybe a fan will suffice. Case is mostly for looks.

Just an example for a case that doesn't aid in cooling, but is still widely used:

https://www.cryptocloaks.com/product/mynodeshell/

Keep in mind that the node will not be under any significant load after IBD as well. So you could probably just put a PC case fan on it during the initial block download and then run it passively.

However all these precautions are not needed when just acquiring an old x86 machine, be it desktop or laptop

And if you don't have a drive and can wait a bit for a sale name brand 1TB external drives can be had for $40
Once again, this is US pricing I don't know how much more or less these things are in other parts of the world.

I checked Amazon US and EU really quickly and it seems without any deals etc. it's around $35 or 35€ for a brand-new USB 3.0 500GB HDD.
I'm sure on Black Friday, Amazon Prime Day etc. there will be 1TB drives for around the 40 mark.

To check a lower-wage country, I had a look at numbers for Turkey. The lowest wage range is around 2000TL and a 500GB USB HDD is 337TL. So it's not cheap; they can go for a SATA drive that only costs 270TL instead, shaves off quite a bit of cost if you don't need USB.

[superbotolo]

This is still too complex and expensive for broad adoption. I built a Raspiblitz some time ago, then disconnected it and used the HDD for something else. This post made me think about re-building my Raspiblitz but just checking the instructions was like "No way, I don't have time for that".

We need someone coming up with a plug-n-play solution that anyone can buy and run. The Casa Node was promising, but expensive. They stopped manufacturing it.

[NotATether]

See Setting up a workspace for Bitcoin Core patching for less than $5 which will allow you to cheaply make Bitcoin Core regression tests, bugfixes and stuff for a comparable price.

Also, be very careful with the laptop charger you buy. You don't want to buy some non-certified charger that'll blow a fuse and potentially start a house fire. Hence your charger options will probably become more expensive.

[n0nce]

This is still too complex and expensive for broad adoption. I built a Raspiblitz some time ago, then disconnected it and used the HDD for something else. This post made me think about re-building my Raspiblitz but just checking the instructions was like "No way, I don't have time for that".

We need someone coming up with a plug-n-play solution that anyone can buy and run. The Casa Node was promising, but expensive. They stopped manufacturing it.

Keep in mind this topic is not about 'getting a node without setup needed'. It's about getting it done as cheap as possible. These things completely contradict each other.

If you want someone to build your node, you will have to pay them. There's no such thing as a free lunch!
So the easiest way to save money on a project like this is to do it yourself.

We can compare it quite well when looking at the The Bitcoin Machine. It was shown multiple times in that thread how it can be built yourself 1:1 for much less.

Since they build it for you, you pay $429.
If you buy their case for $100 and build the rest yourself (1:1 identical machine), it costs ~$300.
If you get a cheaper case and build the rest yourself (no screen, maybe less cool), it costs ~$240.
You can shave off almost $200 by DIYing.

There is no way someone will sell you a pre-made node in a box at less than multiple hundred bucks, because the parts needed for a plug-n-play solution that anyone can buy and run alone cost $150+, then there's labour, taxes, shipping, company costs, and you're looking at at least $300.

If you're still interested in paying this amount of money, that's not a problem. Maybe check Nodes in a Box thread. However this topic is about getting it done as cheap as humanly possible so there's no budget for paying a company to build you your device.

[SFR10]

it can even be free if you have old hardware lying around.

For the most part, you're right but we have to also consider its bandwidth usage ^{[depending on where you live and the type of internet plan that you have, it could come close to or even exceed the amount you've mentioned on the subject field]}.

If the machine you acquired, doesn't meet those specs, you can in many cases just add more RAM or swap the hard drive.

Without going into details, I would like to mention a couple of things to "newbies":

• There's no problem with changing/upgrading your hard drive with another type ^{[keep the old one]}, but never do a straight swap!
• Don't go out there and purchase the cheapest one ^{[make sure they're compatible first]}.

RAM: 4GB - 8GB

Not sure if the ones you've listed are the minimum requirements or not, but on "this page" it says 2GB while on "this one" it's 1GB.

[n0nce]

it can even be free if you have old hardware lying around.

For the most part, you're right but we have to also consider its bandwidth usage ^{[depending on where you live and the type of internet plan that you have, it could come close to or even exceed the amount you've mentioned on the subject field]}.

You're right - I made the (maybe wrong) assumption that everyone these days has an unlimited data plan anyway. If it's a huge issue though; it should be possible to do IBD in a place with free internet like a friend who has unlimited data plan, then bring the node home. If you aren't able to serve many GB of data to the network, Core can be configured so that it's still useful to you (e.g. when running ElectrumX as well => privacy) with minimal data downloads per month. At ~1.5MB/block, just downloading new blocks and not seeding should be 6,480MB per month / 6GB per month.

RAM: 4GB - 8GB

Not sure if the ones you've listed are the minimum requirements or not, but on "this page" it says 2GB while on "this one" it's 1GB.

From my experience, it doesn't make much sense to use less than 4GB since 4GB is very cheap to buy and it's much better in terms of performance than 2GB. I actually tried it once on a VPS and it was using swap like crazy You don't really want to rely this hard on swap if you're already pushing disk I/O like you are during initial block download..

[ABCbits]

From my experience, it doesn't make much sense to use less than 4GB since 4GB is very cheap to buy and it's much better in terms of performance than 2GB. I actually tried it once on a VPS and it was using swap like crazy

You could prevent aggressive swap it if you reduce dbcache value (on Bitcoin Core) and swappiness value (on the OS). If you only need to run OS and Bitcoin Core, 1GB can do the job.

[n0nce]

From my experience, it doesn't make much sense to use less than 4GB since 4GB is very cheap to buy and it's much better in terms of performance than 2GB. I actually tried it once on a VPS and it was using swap like crazy

You could prevent aggressive swap it if you reduce dbcache value (on Bitcoin Core) and swappiness value (on the OS). If you only need to run OS and Bitcoin Core, 1GB can do the job.

I'm not sure aobut dbcache since I haven't used it yet; so I don't know in which range it should be, but I'll look into it in the future for sure.

For now, I would like to share my experience with a node that I've setup a few days ago. It is one of my nodes that needed a bit of maintenance; it was quite cluttered and had outdated software so I rebuilt it from scratch. I will also post a guide about it soon (OpenSUSE node walkthrough).
The hardware is a laptop motherboard with 4GB RAM and 2 500GB HDDs.
After it had taken almost a week to achieve ~40% sync, it was going super slow; around 1-2% a day, so I thought it may be a good idea to just plop in a second stick of RAM and see if it does anything. I kind of expected something to happen, but I was astonished at the speed it was going at afterwards! The HDD arm was moving much less now (audible difference); I suspect it was swapping a ton before, and the log was literally flying.

Here's a graph of some measurements I took; I let you guys guess at which point in time I upgraded the node from 4GB to 8GB



The speed at which it's going, makes me think it should be able to do a full sync in 2 days or so (from scratch); even though it's using a HDD.
Sooo.. all these modern hardware - based super fast syncing nodes.... (Pi 4 8GB + SSD + nice case) I think they actually gain most of their speed from the larger RAM and not from the SSD (which I was considering buying for this node actually)! Very impressive; that HDDs are actually this well suited for a fast IBD. I had not expected it.

[DaveF]

I'm not sure aobut dbcache since I haven't used it yet; so I don't know in which range it should be, but I'll look into it in the future for sure.

Been there, done that: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5246078.0
Really is kind of interesting how some conversations keep coming around and around.

And, yes I know I never finished the testing in the other thread, as the hardware was needed elsewhere and it was the middle of the pandemic and getting stuff was hard.
I didn't go back since it would have to be started from scratch for a new baseline.

-Dave

[ranochigo]

For all intents and purposes, Pi will synchronize just fine. Just note that while the processor is relatively decent, it is built with passive cooling in mind and the TDP isn't a lot. It won't provide for a blazing fast synchronization but should definitely be better than using something that isn't technically designed to be powered-on 24/7.

I'm not sure whether the dbcache allocation is dynamic or fixed, but IIRC it is fixed. Your Core wouldn't use more than that for synchronization no matter how much ram you have. I could be wrong though. I've found that HDD vs SSD still makes quite a huge difference in synchronization; with similar parameters, the SSD took 5 hours to synchronize while the HDD took more than a day.

[kano]

As discussed in another thread, you should have 1TB of disk space.

1/2TB will run out in less than the next 12 months.

[n0nce]

For all intents and purposes, Pi will synchronize just fine. Just note that while the processor is relatively decent, it is built with passive cooling in mind and the TDP isn't a lot. It won't provide for a blazing fast synchronization but should definitely be better than using something that isn't technically designed to be powered-on 24/7.

I don't think that's right. These are all general-purpose computers in different shapes and sizes. And you just said Pi only has passive cooling out of the box, while random old laptops or PCs have active cooling all set up and ready to go. Computers don't really care if they run 24/7 or not, as long as they're not running at the thermal limit all the time, and even then, they're quite durable.

I've found that HDD vs SSD still makes quite a huge difference in synchronization; with similar parameters, the SSD took 5 hours to synchronize while the HDD took more than a day.

Yeah; SSD is also a good speedup, but since everyone's hopping on the 'GET AN SSD' train and nobody mentions RAM, I wanted to show how much of an effect more memory can have. It may be significantly cheaper e.g. to get a 8GB Pi and (maybe existing) HDD instead of a 4GB Pi and an SSD.

As discussed in another thread, you should have 1TB of disk space.

1/2TB will run out in less than the next 12 months.

I will add that info, thanks! I noticed myself; 500 is enough for now for just Core, but Lightning and Electrum need a lot of space as well.

[DaveF]

For all intents and purposes, Pi will synchronize just fine. Just note that while the processor is relatively decent, it is built with passive cooling in mind and the TDP isn't a lot. It won't provide for a blazing fast synchronization but should definitely be better than using something that isn't technically designed to be powered-on 24/7.

Yes with a but or no with a however.
If you are talking new and good that is one thing. We are discussing old used laptops and PCs.
Power supplies that have been through who knows what. Fans that may or may not have been abused, etc.
I did treat my old laptop well, but in the end set it up to mine some crap CPU coins. Had it screaming for months.
Could have sold it on eBay and the buyer would never have known. Not my style to do something like that, but other people.....

-Dave

[HCP]

A couple of other advantages that the single board units like the Pi have is "size" and "power draw"... Even with a case on it, the Pi is a very compact unit, and easily fits on my desk behind my monitor etc. I don't have a lot of room in my workstation area (or anywhere else in my apartment for that matter) and having a unit like a laptop or old desktop in addition to my actual PC isn't really practical.

Then there is the power draw... the Pi runs on a 5V USB charger. It uses next to nothing in terms of power draw... at max load, the CPU is only consuming something like 6 or 7W! And an external drive will only be adding ~5W more at most.

[n0nce]

A couple of other advantages that the single board units like the Pi have is "size" and "power draw"... Even with a case on it, the Pi is a very compact unit, and easily fits on my desk behind my monitor etc. I don't have a lot of room in my workstation area (or anywhere else in my apartment for that matter) and having a unit like a laptop or old desktop in addition to my actual PC isn't really practical.

Then there is the power draw... the Pi runs on a 5V USB charger. It uses next to nothing in terms of power draw... at max load, the CPU is only consuming something like 6 or 7W! And an external drive will only be adding ~5W more at most.

I know all of this. But the whole point of this little 'guide' is to make it as cheap and accessible as possible. Especially in developing countries, brand new hardware (even Raspberry Pis) is prohibitively expensive. On the other hand, for example schools almost anywhere, give away their old hardware, which may be Pentium desktops or something like that, which can be upgraded for a few bucks with more storage and RAM to be able to run a Bitcoin node.

[ranochigo]

I don't think that's right. These are all general-purpose computers in different shapes and sizes. And you just said Pi only has passive cooling out of the box, while random old laptops or PCs have active cooling all set up and ready to go. Computers don't really care if they run 24/7 or not, as long as they're not running at the thermal limit all the time, and even then, they're quite durable.

It depends. I've had terrible experiences with certain laptops when running them for extended period of time. I would rather not stress laptops (particularly their battery) by having them run 24/7, because they are not designed with that in mind. You are far more likely to have it fail on you than a brand-new Pi and even if it does then you only have to replace the USB charger.

The reason why Pi has passive cooling is because it doesn't really need active cooling system, perhaps save for a little extra heatsink on top of it. You are more likely to save more money going with a Pi, at least I've never really seen any computers that would be far cheaper than Pi (less than $50??) and isn't a headache to use. You're probably either going to find it grossly inadequate for Core or have a certain component fail on you after a while, that is the problem with buying old hardware, I've had quite a fair bit of experience in this regard.

Anyways regarding the cost, if you need to be concerned about the cost of running a node then you should probably spend your money elsewhere. Not everyone has to run a node, especially if you can't really afford it financially.

[HCP]

That's the great thing about all of this... there are plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cat   Plenty of options to get up and running in a way that suits your budget, your physical space requirements, power limits, mobility requirements etc.

Pi's tucked away behind your monitor, an old repurposed desktop sitting in your closet, you daily driver laptop etc etc... modern technology is great

[n0nce]

Shameless bump (not really): I just stumbled across a very old thread.

It's funny to look back at things and see how predictions by highly influential people eventually panned out.

This was basically exactly 7 years ago now; and Bitcoin was around for a bit over 6 years at that point in time. So kind of half-way between today and the beginning of the Bitcoin network.

"I want to be able to run a full node from my home computer / network connection." Does anybody actually care about that? Satoshi didn't, his vision was home users running SPV nodes and full nodes being hosted in datacenters.

Poor Lauda..

This is rather a pointless discussion which was led more than once. Why would anyone fight this?
Saying that we still have 'some time' is not a strong argument here. Should we think about doing the fork once we hit the cap?

Believe me, once we hit it, using Bitcoin will be very painful.

At the moment of writing, blocks are mostly full and I'm not feeling lots of pain.

I, for one, am very happy that we can still run Bitcoin on $50 worth of hardware after such a long time. And I'm still convinced this is what really sets Bitcoin apart; true decentralization.
Sorry for the off-topic ramble, but I figured this historic little piece of information does fit in this topic and maybe it will motivate someone to build their own $50 node over the weekend!

[Welsh]

I, for one, am very happy that we can still run Bitcoin on $50 worth of hardware after such a long time. And I'm still convinced this is what really sets Bitcoin apart; true decentralization.
Sorry for the off-topic ramble, but I figured this historic little piece of information does fit in this topic and maybe it will motivate someone to build their own $50 node over the weekend!

Yeah, although its not for everyone. As most of us now by now, not many people want true decentralisation since it usually comes with a cost. By that I mean, when we ask the majority of the population they probably aren't going to be willing to pay for something just to use their own money, they would rather have third parties which handle that for them. Obviously, we don't need everyone to be running a node.

As for the costs, to be honest except for rising electricity costs I would like to think the total cost will continue to go down. The only issue that could become a problem is the storage, so far we've been pretty much following Moore's law with our increases in hardware capability, although I've definitely noticed the last year or so that most hardware is now becoming too powerful for our means, and therefore we won't use it a lot. Obviously, hard drives are a little different to CPU's, and graphics cards. Although, I do think that the general consumer won't be requiring much more than four terabyte (TB) hard drives in the future. Hell, I probably have over 50TB among all the hard drives I've collected over the years, but I don't use half of them. My main machine only has a 1TB hard drive in it, and that's no where near full.

So, storage is probably the biggest concern for Bitcoin self hosted nodes, at least full nodes is that the storage requirements might outpace what general consumers usually have or require. I don't think it'll be an issue for the capability we have in manufacturing larger hard drives, but it'll be what is available to the general consumer at a decent price, which the lesser demand probably means a lot of people could be out priced. Thoughts?

[BlackHatCoiner]

By that I mean, when we ask the majority of the population they probably aren't going to be willing to pay for something just to use their own money, they would rather have third parties which handle that for them.

Not wanting true decentralization doesn't mean hell-bent to lose self-custody. I believe the majority of the users, excluding those who're here just to trade, use SPV clients as it's the easiest solution with the least risks.

Those who leave them on centralized exchanges haven't understood what they've bought either way.

Thoughts?

I think the storage cost has little matter. Running non-pruned full nodes definitely helps the network, but if the user doesn't want to buy an extra hard drive, they can enjoy the same features by running a pruned node with txindex=1.

[garlonicon]

by running a pruned node with txindex=1

You cannot use those two options together, you have to choose one of them. You can kind of reach that by importing every output as yours, but you probably should not and focus on UTXO scanning instead, if you really need pruning.

[BlackHatCoiner]

You cannot use those two options together

What's the problem with keeping everyone's UTXOs and dumping the blocks? I'm just saying that you can have the same benefits even if you're planning to run an SPV server, without keeping the entire chain, but only the outputs.

Sure, if it's personal use set it to 0.

Edit: My bad. You're right. I hadn't ever tried it, to be honest, but I thought it would work. Could you explain me why a pruned node can't index all the transactions? The blocks/index is less than 40 GB and it could be used if one wanted to run an SPV server.

[DaveF]

You cannot use those two options together

What's the problem with keeping everyone's UTXOs and dumping the blocks? I'm just saying that you can have the same benefits even if you're planning to run an SPV server, without keeping the entire chain, but only the outputs.

Sure, if it's personal use set it to 0.

Edit: My bad. You're right. I hadn't ever tried it, to be honest, but I thought it would work. Could you explain me why a pruned node can't index all the transactions? The blocks/index is less than 40 GB and it could be used if one wanted to run an SPV server.

In theory it probably could.
All of us keep going around in the same circle here with people and I hate to be the grouchy person BUT used drives have gotten so cheap I am at this point just e-wasting & recycling 500GB and below because just about anywhere in the Americas (North - Central -South) and most of the EU and ASIA it's actually cheaper to find them locally then to have me ship them.

If you want to run a node get a 1TB drive and....run a node. If you don't want to, then don't.

-Dave

[garlonicon]

What's the problem with keeping everyone's UTXOs and dumping the blocks?

All you need is mapping transaction hash to block hash (you can also use block number, but then you cannot check stale blocks). If you have that, then you can query raw transactions on a pruned node. The reason why it is not available by default is that "pruning" means "I want to reduce my disk usage", but "txindex" means "I want to store everything". It is kind of illogical to "store everything" and to "reduce disk usage" at the same time, so it is not allowed by default.

But as I said: just map transaction hashes to block hashes and you will get that functionality. Or scan UTXO set (there is even scanutxoset command; or even importprunedfunds if you really want).

[BlackHatCoiner]

The reason why it is not available by default is that "pruning" means "I want to reduce my disk usage", but "txindex" means "I want to store everything".

Sure, it's oxymoron and there's no essential utility unless one wants to store all the outputs, but no blocks for some reason. That reason could perhaps be to run an SPV server with less expense?

If you don't want to store everything, but verify everything for your own good: Run a pruned node.
If you don't care of storing everything or you want to go beyond personal use: Run a non-pruned node.

[BlackHatCoiner]

First of all, how do you index transaction which isn't exist on your device? Block which contain transactions already pruned/removed.

During IBD, can't you index the transactions and then remove them?

[DaveF]

So, storage is probably the biggest concern for Bitcoin self hosted nodes, at least full nodes is that the storage requirements might outpace what general consumers usually have or require. I don't think it'll be an issue for the capability we have in manufacturing larger hard drives, but it'll be what is available to the general consumer at a decent price, which the lesser demand probably means a lot of people could be out priced. Thoughts?

It's valid concern, but IMO time for initial block download (IBD) is bigger concern. I expect some people who interested to run full node discourage time for IBD could take some time.

Drive prices are falling insanely fast even with all the chip shortages and shipping issues all over the world. I just got an 18TB drive (on sale) for $300 1 & 2 TB are under $50.
While I know that may be a lot of money for some people in parts of the world those are new prices. I have seen 1TB used for under $5 in places.

Time to download is probably not as big a concern then people who have bandwidth amount limited plans.

Yes with 1meg download speed it can take close to 2 months to download the entire blockchain. BUT if you only have a 100GB max download a month total before extra billing or fees kick in then do you pay more or take 6 months to download?

-Dave

[ABCbits]

Drive prices are falling insanely fast even with all the chip shortages and shipping issues all over the world. I just got an 18TB drive (on sale) for $300 1 & 2 TB are under $50.
While I know that may be a lot of money for some people in parts of the world those are new prices. I have seen 1TB used for under $5 in places.

I agree, although it's different case if you need to host full node on remote server.

Time to download is probably not as big a concern then people who have bandwidth amount limited plans.

Aside from bandwidth, you also need to consider CPU speed, RAM capacity and HDD speed. HDD speed can be partially solved by moving chainstate directory to SSD or allocate very big RAM to Bitcoin Core (IIRC at least 8GB).

[DaveF]

Drive prices are falling insanely fast even with all the chip shortages and shipping issues all over the world. I just got an 18TB drive (on sale) for $300 1 & 2 TB are under $50.
While I know that may be a lot of money for some people in parts of the world those are new prices. I have seen 1TB used for under $5 in places.

I agree, although it's different case if you need to host full node on remote server.

Time to download is probably not as big a concern then people who have bandwidth amount limited plans.

Aside from bandwidth, you also need to consider CPU speed, RAM capacity and HDD speed. HDD speed can be partially solved by moving chainstate directory to SSD or allocate very big RAM to Bitcoin Core (IIRC at least 8GB).

Going to have to disagree with you here.

With unlimited bandwidth I can sync a node from scratch on an 4GB RPi4 with a 5400 RPM USB drive in under a week.
Using an SSD will get that down to 4 days or so. Literally just did both with Umbrel builds.

Yes if you need it up now, a week is an intolerably long time. If you just want to run a node, you can start it and walk away and come back next weekend and it should be done.

-Dave

[BlackHatCoiner]

Do you mean you want to create the index (TX ID) without storing the content (the transaction itself)? I think it's possible, but i don't see any practical usage.

Me neither. I had probably misunderstood this. Transaction indexing has a purpose when you also keep the transactions, which means when you don't prune.

[garlonicon]

Well, I thought you want to index only non-pruned transactions. Then it makes some sense, but still, enabling those two options together is like mixing water with fire. Because it is not that you cannot query transactions: you can, but you need to always provide block hash, when doing that without txindex.

[n0nce]

I agree, although it's different case if you need to host full node on remote server.

I strongly believe that full nodes do belong in people's homes; that's why I made this guide and why I'm so hell-bent on reasonably small blocks.
Just like laws are kicking in in the EU right now, and probably other places in the future, laws could be put in place that categorize node operators similarly to payment providers, requiring some kind of license or KYC. Hence, cloud providers might either hand out this sort of information if queried or just forbid to run e.g. Bitcoin Core.
It's also in general a bad concept running 'decentralized' software on 'centralized' servers. Isn't this what altcoins are doing? Spinning up a few AWS instances and calling it decentralized?

Aside from bandwidth, you also need to consider CPU speed, RAM capacity and HDD speed. HDD speed can be partially solved by moving chainstate directory to SSD or allocate very big RAM to Bitcoin Core (IIRC at least 8GB).

That's right: my last node install was on such a 'budget build' as described here and it was taking too long, so I installed 4 extra GB and it went super fast. My internet connection wasn't great, but RAM still was the bottleneck. As you guys are saying; $50 can be a lot of money in some places, so I believe it's great to see that Bitcoin still manages with pretty low system requirements and such a low cost barrier to 'entry' as a node runner.

For now, I would like to share my experience with a node that I've setup a few days ago. It is one of my nodes that needed a bit of maintenance; it was quite cluttered and had outdated software so I rebuilt it from scratch. I will also post a guide about it soon (OpenSUSE node walkthrough).
The hardware is a laptop motherboard with 4GB RAM and 2 500GB HDDs.
After it had taken almost a week to achieve ~40% sync, it was going super slow; around 1-2% a day, so I thought it may be a good idea to just plop in a second stick of RAM and see if it does anything. I kind of expected something to happen, but I was astonished at the speed it was going at afterwards! The HDD arm was moving much less now (audible difference); I suspect it was swapping a ton before, and the log was literally flying.

Here's a graph of some measurements I took; I let you guys guess at which point in time I upgraded the node from 4GB to 8GB



The speed at which it's going, makes me think it should be able to do a full sync in 2 days or so (from scratch); even though it's using a HDD.
Sooo.. all these modern hardware - based super fast syncing nodes.... (Pi 4 8GB + SSD + nice case) I think they actually gain most of their speed from the larger RAM and not from the SSD (which I was considering buying for this node actually)! Very impressive; that HDDs are actually this well suited for a fast IBD. I had not expected it.

[n0nce]

Yes if you need it up now, a week is an intolerably long time. If you just want to run a node, you can start it and walk away and come back next weekend and it should be done.

I agree, although IMO a week for sync is long enough to discourage few people even if they don't need it up quickly.

Why that hurry, though? I am confident if there was a strong demand for faster IBD, we would have many more people working on and campaigning for stuff like checkpoints on the blockchain.

It's also in general a bad concept running 'decentralized' software on 'centralized' servers. Isn't this what altcoins are doing? Spinning up a few AWS instances and calling it decentralized?

That makes sense, but there are few use cases where you need to use remote/centralized server. For example, small business or non-profit organization who run BTCPayServer.

Correct, yes. In that case, the node may be required to run the payment server on top of it, but those nodes shouldn't be considered part of the 'secure, reliable backbone' of the network, in my opinion.

[AnotherAlt]

I am sorry if this is a bullshit question. I am a newbie (Not in crypto). Why do you think I should run a Bitcoin core wallet while there are many wallet/exchanges like Binance and Coinbase? I know it's essential if you hold a bunch of Bitcoin. But, I have such a tiny amount of Bitcoin (below $1K). I think I can hold them on Binance and stake it to accumulate more satoshi. Are there any benefits of running a full node? I know that sometimes Running a lightning network node can give you some benefits which also not profitable (less than $1/month). Suppose I installed a full node. Why do I have to run it 24/7? What are the benefits? I have a Ryzen 3 3200G CPU+ 16GB Ram + 2TB HDD PC. Can I install the full node in this setup?

I am sorry, but I am interested to learn. I appreciate any help you can provide.

[ABCbits]

I agree, although IMO a week for sync is long enough to discourage few people even if they don't need it up quickly.

Why that hurry, though? I am confident if there was a strong demand for faster IBD, we would have many more people working on and campaigning for stuff like checkpoints on the blockchain.

Some people simply not patient. Idea for faster IBD such as UTXO commitment already suggested several times, but receive little support/interest.

That makes sense, but there are few use cases where you need to use remote/centralized server. For example, small business or non-profit organization who run BTCPayServer.

Correct, yes. In that case, the node may be required to run the payment server on top of it, but those nodes shouldn't be considered part of the 'secure, reliable backbone' of the network, in my opinion.

It's not like we can tell a node is part of the "secure, reliable backbone" unless they use popular VPS which it's IP range is known without VPN or Tor.

Why do you think I should run a Bitcoin core wallet while there are many wallet/exchanges like Binance and Coinbase? I know it's essential if you hold a bunch of Bitcoin. But, I have such a tiny amount of Bitcoin (below $1K). I think I can hold them on Binance and stake it to accumulate more satoshi.

TLDR, better privacy and you actually have control over your Bitcoin. Although you can use SPV non-custodial (with Tor/VPN) such as Electrum to receive similar benefit.

I have a Ryzen 3 3200G CPU+ 16GB Ram + 2TB HDD PC. Can I install the full node in this setup?

Yes.

[n0nce]

Why do you think I should run a Bitcoin core wallet while there are many wallet/exchanges like Binance and Coinbase? I know it's essential if you hold a bunch of Bitcoin.

Oh, wow, so first, you can't just bunch together 'wallet/exchanges', they're two very different things. An exchange is nothing other than a bank that lets you buy and custody some foreign currency for you. However, besides the broken privacy when buying BTC through exchanges; if you actually use them as a wallet... then you don't actually own your Bitcoin!
Have a good read about this topic here: https://notyourkeys.org/

So you absolutely don't want to keep coins on exchanges.

It's so mind boggling to me that people buy and hodl their coins on an exchange, since that's so completely against the whole idea and concept of Bitcoin.
To reiterate: Bitcoin is a A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.
Bitcoin lets you pay from one party to another without going through a financial institution_{https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf} - an exchange is such a financial institution.
Bitcoin lets you own and transfer coins without anyone knowing they are yours. The public can see that someone is sending
an amount to someone else, but without information linking the transaction to anyone_{https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf} - unless you bought the coins on an exchange that has a picture of your ID and a selfie of your face.

But, I have such a tiny amount of Bitcoin (below $1K).

This doesn't matter. Running a node doesn't have a lot to do with holding your keys (which again, is essential). You can use any open-source non-custodial wallet and be safe from your funds being stolen or confiscated, without having to run a node. In fact, that's what I recommend; since a full node is always online and that computer might be infected by a virus.

The reason you want to run a node is to make Bitcoin decentralized. If only the big exchanges ran a node, it would be trivial to attack the network. Blockchain is meaningless without a decentralized network.

I think I can hold them on Binance and stake it to accumulate more satoshi.

That's a terrible idea; you risk losing it all just for a tiny amount of 'rent' you get from it.

Are there any benefits of running a full node?

Yes; you can point your wallet software at your own node in its settings, like Trezor software or Electrum. This will cause it to look up addresses and balances on your own local copy of the blockchain, making your Bitcoin usage much more anonymous.

I know that sometimes Running a lightning network node can give you some benefits which also not profitable (less than $1/month). Suppose I installed a full node. Why do I have to run it 24/7? What are the benefits?

Running a (Lightning) node is not for profit; that's because Lightning is made to be cheap and the routing fees are incredibly low. But that's by design. As I just said, the main benefit of running your own node (for you) is that you gain more privacy and you can't be fooled by a malicious block explorer. Such a site could lead you into the belief that a payment was sent, while it was not, for instance.
You don't have to run Bitcoin 24/7, but for Lightning it is required. The reason why is a bit outside the scope of this topic, but there are lots of good resources about it.

I have a Ryzen 3 3200G CPU+ 16GB Ram + 2TB HDD PC. Can I install the full node in this setup?

Sure; the whole point of the thread you've read here is that Bitcoin runs on super low-end laptop hardware. As far as I can tell, you've got a pretty good CPU so it will work.

That makes sense, but there are few use cases where you need to use remote/centralized server. For example, small business or non-profit organization who run BTCPayServer.

Correct, yes. In that case, the node may be required to run the payment server on top of it, but those nodes shouldn't be considered part of the 'secure, reliable backbone' of the network, in my opinion.

It's not like we can tell a node is part of the "secure, reliable backbone" unless they use popular VPS which it's IP range is known without VPN or Tor.

I know, I know, just wanted to highlight the importance of independent node operators and hobbyists!

[AnotherAlt]

edited out

I guess I am convinced. I don't have any sendable merit. This explanation deserves some of it. I have already started downloading the Bitcoin core. I will let you know once I finish. I have watched a few youtube videos earlier. So, I have a basic idea about that. What if I lost my backup or something like that? What if my HDD Crashes? I am afraid a bit. But, Let's give it a try.

[n0nce]

edited out

I guess I am convinced. I don't have any sendable merit. This explanation deserves some of it. I have already started downloading the Bitcoin core. I will let you know once I finish. I have watched a few youtube videos earlier. So, I have a basic idea about that. What if I lost my backup or something like that? What if my HDD Crashes? I am afraid a bit. But, Let's give it a try.

Thanks, no worries! I'm glad I could explain it well. Make sure to download Bitcoin core either from its official GitHub or from the link you always find in the top section of this forum (https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/).

In case you are using Windows (which most people do on their personal machines), I would recommend you NeuroticFish's guide:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367296.0

If you're using Linux, you could follow my guide:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5366854.0

For everyday usage, I believe electrs and BTC RPC block explorer that NeuroticFish added to his guide make a lot of sense, since by using those you get the full benefits of running your own node.

HDD crashes are not a big deal and no worries about backups either; since you won't be storing coins on that HDD. If you are, e.g. by using Electrum as your wallet, then make sure to backup your seed onto paper or steel and you have nothing to fear, since you can always restore those seed word backups.
Here's a topic of mine about creating steel backups for around $3-4 USD in materials:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363596.0

And a more in-depth walkthrough by fillippone:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0

If you're willing to invest some money for a standalone offline hardware wallet, which is much harder to hack than a software wallet, I would recommend to get one (don't forget to still do a steel washer backup though). A cheap one that still holds its own is the original Trezor Model One, which is tried and tested for many years and fully open-source. It's also got reproducible builds, which some others don't - meaning you can't know that they actually run the code they claim to run.

[AnotherAlt]

Thanks, no worries! I'm glad I could explain it well. Make sure to download Bitcoin core either from its official GitHub or from the link you always find in the top section of this forum (https://bitcoincore.org/en/download/).

I have downloaded the file from the Forum header

News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 22.0 [Torrent]

I have already installed the Bitcoin core, synchronizing with the network. Look like it's going to take a lot of time. I have a terrible internet connection. I am 9 years and seven weeks behind. The number of blocks left is almost 500K. So, I guess I have to wait a long time.

[n0nce]

~

Sounds great! Yes, it can take a few days up to a week on bad connections or low-end hardware, but just let it run in the background, it shouldn't affect your overall system performance at all.

[AnotherAlt]

~

Sounds great! Yes, it can take a few days up to a week on bad connections or low-end hardware, but just let it run in the background, it shouldn't affect your overall system performance at all.

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

[Welsh]

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

it can take a few days up to a week on bad connections or low-end hardware, but just let it run in the background, it shouldn't affect your overall system performance at all.

Yeah it shouldn't effect computer performance, but depending on their network could potentially make it absolutely awful to use that network while it does download. Depending on the network speed, and how fast they're downloading the Blockchain of course.

[n0nce]

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

it can take a few days up to a week on bad connections or low-end hardware, but just let it run in the background, it shouldn't affect your overall system performance at all.

Yeah it shouldn't effect computer performance, but depending on their network could potentially make it absolutely awful to use that network while it does download. Depending on the network speed, and how fast they're downloading the Blockchain of course.

That's true! I'm not sure if you're able to set something like a bandwidth cap. I never needed it since my nodes run on dedicated hardware and IBD doesn't really affect my total network bandwidth.

Edit: seems you have to throttle bandwidth with an external software, and there's nothing built into Bitcoin Core. Here's an answer with Windows, macOS and Linux instructions: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7750/how-can-i-limit-bandwidth-usage-in-bitcoin-qt-client/38694#38694

[Welsh]

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

Exactly. Cheers for clearing that up. Should have probably been a little more specific there.

That's true! I'm not sure if you're able to set something like a bandwidth cap. I never needed it since my nodes run on dedicated hardware and IBD doesn't really affect my total network bandwidth.

I've never had a look since it's not something I'd find useful, but it would make sense to be able to limit the download speed. I would assume that it is an option already implemented, but if it isn't probably should be.

Edit: seems you have to throttle bandwidth with an external software, and there's nothing built into Bitcoin Core. Here's an answer with Windows, macOS and Linux instructions: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7750/how-can-i-limit-bandwidth-usage-in-bitcoin-qt-client/38694#38694

On that note, it might be worth actually implementing it. Since, one could argue that by not having something like this in place it could encourage centralisation as you're potentially putting those with less bandwidth capability out of the picture. I know it's probably not a huge problem, but something to consider at least.

[n0nce]

Edit: seems you have to throttle bandwidth with an external software, and there's nothing built into Bitcoin Core. Here's an answer with Windows, macOS and Linux instructions: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7750/how-can-i-limit-bandwidth-usage-in-bitcoin-qt-client/38694#38694

On that note, it might be worth actually implementing it. Since, one could argue that by not having something like this in place it could encourage centralisation as you're potentially putting those with less bandwidth capability out of the picture. I know it's probably not a huge problem, but something to consider at least.

Yes, very good point! We talked in the past about people with bandwidth limits and total data limits and such. While tedious, with such an option in Core, they could set it to a speed that only downloads 5GB a day or so, to complete IBD in a bit over 2 months if that's the maximum their data plan or bandwidth allows them.

[DaveF]

For all of you who were wondering where I was the last few days.
I can now present to you the MORE then $50 node because I made it that way but you could probably do it for less if you look.

Soooo I picked up a bunch of surplus rugged dell laptops at auction. 8 for about $140 total
Dell Latitude 14 Rugged 5404 Intel i7-4650U 1.70GHz 4GB
Some worked fine others had issues.

Main thing was that all of them had the drives and the the drive bay removed. Damn, the bays are expensive ($40) I could have waited and gotten one for a lot less but I have the patience of a sugared up 5 year old so I paid it.
Took 4 gigs of RAM out of one and put it in another to bump it to 8GB (30+ screws that are not all the same to get to the RAM)
And an old 1TB laptop drive and now you have:



A fully portable and really heavy mobile node they even have AT&T 4G with stupid expensive and slow data. But yes it works.

This post brought to you by the department of just because you can does not mean you should.
Getting some things to work, like the 4g were a pain in the ass. But it was fun.

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

-Dave

[AnotherAlt]

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

Unfortunately, I have a shitty internet connection. I live in a village side, and I also don't have 24/7 Electricity here. I am not aware of the pruned node. Should I watch some Youtube videos about it? Or it's works same as like the Main core?

BTW, Thanks guys for taking your time to write me back.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Should I watch some Youtube videos about it? Or it's works same as like the Main core?

It's the same as running a non-pruning node, you just don't store the entire chain. You'd need it, if you didn't have enough disk space or didn't want to use it for storing the chain. It won't help if the problem has to do with your internet speed.

[n0nce]

This post brought to you by the department of just because you can does not mean you should.
Getting some things to work, like the 4g were a pain in the ass. But it was fun.

That's so cool, thanks a lot for trying what I now call 'the $50 experiment'!

You bring up a good point: portability. Even if the battery in such a node is almost dead, it will protect it from short power outages and allows you to move it without turning it off and on again.

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

I must insert an ad for my own topic here, but openSUSE seems to be very light on the hardware, especially if installed / run without graphical user interface.
If interested in running bare-metal, with electrs and Core Lightning (They rebranded! Anyone noticed yet? https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning), you could try following along with this guide: [Guide] FULL NODE OpenSUSE 15.3: bitcoind + electrs + c-lightning + RTL. But you already gave me 8 merit, so you are aware of it.

Unfortunately, I have a shitty internet connection. I live in a village side, and I also don't have 24/7 Electricity here. I am not aware of the pruned node. Should I watch some Youtube videos about it? Or it's works same as like the Main core?

As BlackHatCoiner said, pruning won't help with the download speed. But there's no rush, right, so just let it sit. Regarding electricity, this would be a great application for using laptop hardware with a battery installed, as I mentioned above. You could even tell Linux to shut down cleanly if it detects to be running on battery for more than 15 minutes, for instance.

[Welsh]

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Yes, very good point! We talked in the past about people with bandwidth limits and total data limits and such. While tedious, with such an option in Core, they could set it to a speed that only downloads 5GB a day or so, to complete IBD in a bit over 2 months if that's the maximum their data plan or bandwidth allows them.

I know the vast majority of people wouldn't find it useful, and that's probably the reason it hasn't already been implemented, however as time goes on if we're going to expect more adoption, it could very well aid that. I know there are already alternatives such as a lightweight client or just not running a node, and don't get me wrong again the vast majority aren't going to be interested. I don't know, I just feel it could be worth it regardless, as it might just encourage someone who was already on the fence, to give running a full node a try, which obviously directly benefits the network as a whole.

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

What specifically didn't work in Linux, but works in the virtual machine?

[n0nce]

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining.

Yes, very good point! We talked in the past about people with bandwidth limits and total data limits and such. While tedious, with such an option in Core, they could set it to a speed that only downloads 5GB a day or so, to complete IBD in a bit over 2 months if that's the maximum their data plan or bandwidth allows them.

I know the vast majority of people wouldn't find it useful, and that's probably the reason it hasn't already been implemented, however as time goes on if we're going to expect more adoption, it could very well aid that. I know there are already alternatives such as a lightweight client or just not running a node, and don't get me wrong again the vast majority aren't going to be interested. I don't know, I just feel it could be worth it regardless, as it might just encourage someone who was already on the fence, to give running a full node a try, which obviously directly benefits the network as a whole.

Actually, I believe the need for Bitcoin is even higher in less 'developed' parts of the world, however those are almost always also underdeveloped in (internet) infrastructure. So such a feature would actually benefit exactly the people 'that need it most'.

[DaveF]

Went with mynode in a VM for now because I could not get everything to work under linux and I wanted a lightning setup. No real reason, just wanted it.

What specifically didn't work in Linux, but works in the virtual machine?

I could not get the 4G working under linux. It's a Gobi / Sierra Wireless / Qualcomm unit but no matter what I did it would not connect.
Installed Win 10 and it works. VirtualBox sees it as a regular Wi-Fi card.

I don't know if

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.
Or
2) Since it's PD surplus if they did some tweaks to the firmware
Or
3) AT&T is looking for some setting that is not in the generic linux driver that is in the Windows one.
Or
4) Something else that I am not seeing.

-Dave

[garlonicon]

Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux

I don't know if it is related, but we recently had some problems with Dell. We had a person that switched motherboard five times or more, so definitely something is fishy. Not to mention that most libreboot laptops or similar Free Software guys run their things on ThinkPads, and that Lenovo sometimes create a BIOS image in debug mode, so you can read a lot of things by capturing that with flashrom, also for that reason it is easier to hack that by installing Open Source BIOS on such devices.

[ABCbits]

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining.

I would disagree it's carbon-negative. You need to consider carbon footprint during production[1] and whether it's recyclable after the panel reached end of life/broken[2].

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.

It's known problem that some WiFi and mobile broadband card doesn't work on linux. But what linux distro did you use? Have you tried install optional/closed-source driver (few distro require user to do it manually)?


[1] https://www.1energysystems.com/carbon-footprint-of-solar-panel-manufacturing/
[2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-0645-2.epdf

[DaveF]

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining.

I would disagree it's carbon-negative. You need to consider carbon footprint during production[1] and whether it's recyclable after the panel reached end of life/broken[2].

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.

It's known problem that some WiFi and mobile broadband card doesn't work on linux. But what linux distro did you use? Have you tried install optional/closed-source driver (few distro require user to do it manually)?


[1] https://www.1energysystems.com/carbon-footprint-of-solar-panel-manufacturing/
[2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-0645-2.epdf

I tried Debian and Ubuntu 1st figuring that when Debian did not work Ubuntu, although close to it may do something a bit differently. Then I switched to CentOS and still no go. Tried every driver I could find related to the card both open and closed. It's not even that smooth under Windows, after install you have to *power down* not just reboot.

As for the solar panel side, since the nodes in a box use so little power you can probably get an older / damaged solar panel for free that will put out enough power to run the node and charge a few batts to keep it going when it's dark out. Depending on where you live. Here in the US it's going to be easier to do in say Las Vegas where you have a lot more sun then New York.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5158920.msg58008085#msg58008085



-Dave

[n0nce]

Anyone ever tempted to run a node off a solar panel? I assume a single board computer would likely be the most realistic way of going about it.

Not..... yet! I plan to get something relatively large but still single panel that would easily power a node even on cloudy days.
The more ambitious part would be also developing a hashboard that is then dynamically powered on / off depending on sun availability. Mainly to show the counterintuitive concept of harvesting otherwise 'lost' energy (since the solar panel will produce much more than what a little pi needs on sunny days) and therefore run not only carbon-neutral, but you could argue carbon-negative mining.

I would disagree it's carbon-negative. You need to consider carbon footprint during production[1] and whether it's recyclable after the panel reached end of life/broken[2].

Well, my point is that without the hashboard, the same solar cell that runs your node, actually produces more power than needed most of the time (to be able to get through the shortest days of the year). So adding a hashboard uses this otherwise wasted energy for good (securing the network and getting money into your pocket that hopefully circulates in the economy); there is no need to manufacture and recycle more solar cells, the only extra hardware is the hashboard.

[dkbit98]

Soooo I picked up a bunch of surplus rugged dell laptops at auction. 8 for about $140 total

That was a pretty good deal you found, but I would pick old Thinkpad T series laptops instead of Dell, because they are built like tank and used by army for a reason.
It's easy to replace DVD drive with a cheap drive bay caddy adapter for any HDD or SSD drives, so you could have much bigger drive space than you need.
This is a perfect machine for running Bitcoin node, it will survive most drops or water spills, and spare parts with batteries can easily be found worldwide.
Local flea market should be one of the places you can visit to find one of this

[DaveF]

Soooo I picked up a bunch of surplus rugged dell laptops at auction. 8 for about $140 total

That was a pretty good deal you found, but I would pick old Thinkpad T series laptops instead of Dell, because they are built like tank and used by army for a reason.
It's easy to replace DVD drive with a cheap drive bay caddy adapter for any HDD or SSD drives, so you could have much bigger drive space than you need.
This is a perfect machine for running Bitcoin node, it will survive most drops or water spills, and spare parts with batteries can easily be found worldwide.
Local flea market should be one of the places you can visit to find one of this

There are a lot of surplus places out there selling old fire / police laptops you just have to do a bit of looking.
The Panasonic Toughbook really is the gold standard in rugged laptops but even really the really old ones still sell for a premium.

But any of them more or less are prefect for a portable node that you don't have to worry about damaging.

-Dave

[ABCbits]

1) It's not a 100% standard card and Dell has something custom either in the hardware or firmware that causes it to get funky under linux.

It's known problem that some WiFi and mobile broadband card doesn't work on linux. But what linux distro did you use? Have you tried install optional/closed-source driver (few distro require user to do it manually)?

I tried Debian and Ubuntu 1st figuring that when Debian did not work Ubuntu, although close to it may do something a bit differently. Then I switched to CentOS and still no go. Tried every driver I could find related to the card both open and closed. It's not even that smooth under Windows, after install you have to *power down* not just reboot.

Assuming you tried non-free firmware from Debian, looks like you've tried everything that i would try. I only could suggest you to try this guide (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ThinkPad_mobile_Internet#Alternative_method) which also use Qualcomm Gobi.

[DaveF]

Assuming you tried non-free firmware from Debian, looks like you've tried everything that i would try. I only could suggest you to try this guide (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ThinkPad_mobile_Internet#Alternative_method) which also use Qualcomm Gobi.

I think that was attempt number 106.

The problem is, well one of them anyway, is that although it's an off the shelf laptop so to speak, from what I can figure many municipalities along with AT&T have a custom firmware loadout on the 4G cards. I saw a mention of it on a usenet group when I was looking for help with it.
They appear normal, but were setup slightly differently so in the event of a true emergency they worked a bit differently. It is probably some little thing, but enough for linux not to work with it.

OR

They were deliberately disabled under linux to prevent something for some reason.

-Dave

[vapourminer]

Sadly I am still three years behind. I don't run my computer 24/7. But, Whenever I run, I let the core download the blocks. Meanwhile, I moved my Bitcoin into an Atomic wallet.

If you aren't running it 24/7, then you might want to consider running a pruned node instead. At least that'll be a reduction in local disk space needed. Otherwise, you'll likely be catching up for a while every day that you restart it. Especially, if you have a slow internet connection.

AnotherAlt, do note that pruning won't affect the IBD (initial block download) speed or sync speed in general. But since the node doesn't run 24/7 it doesn't provide that much utility to the network anyway, so might as well run it pruned, is what Welsh is probably saying here. Such a node needs considerably less disk space and gives you as a user all the benefits of a full node, and just lacks the ability to seed the blockchain to new nodes entering the network.

i have internet that is The Suck (satellite that is slow with caps out here in the boonies), so i specifically run it in NOT pruned mode. simply because disk space is cheap and one needs to download the complete blockchain anyway even if you throw much of it out due to pruning. so i keep it all and this allows me to run other software against it that may want a local copy of the full chain if needed (trezor wallet etc).

so i would argue that its better to just keep it all, unless youre really really pinched for space.

also because it would take me a few months to get the blockchain from scratch again if it gets hosed i have it backed up like crazy. like i keep 5 or 6 copies with regular backups, some in raid 1 and zfs z1/z2

[dkbit98]

The problem is, well one of them anyway, is that although it's an off the shelf laptop so to speak, from what I can figure many municipalities along with AT&T have a custom firmware loadout on the 4G cards. I saw a mention of it on a usenet group when I was looking for help with it.

I don't know what's the situation with spare parts for those laptops you purchased, but you could try finding hardware maintenance manual and identify all compatible wifi cards.
It's not that hard to follow manual, open laptop and replace wifi cards or any other parts you want, spare parts for used laptops can easily be found on internet or in used computer shops.
I also had issues installing Debian Linux on one of my laptops, but I managed to do it with Debian non-free iso, and alternative option was MX Linux that is based on Debian with some tweaks.

[DaveF]

The problem is, well one of them anyway, is that although it's an off the shelf laptop so to speak, from what I can figure many municipalities along with AT&T have a custom firmware loadout on the 4G cards. I saw a mention of it on a usenet group when I was looking for help with it.

I don't know what's the situation with spare parts for those laptops you purchased, but you could try finding hardware maintenance manual and identify all compatible wifi cards.
It's not that hard to follow manual, open laptop and replace wifi cards or any other parts you want, spare parts for used laptops can easily be found on internet or in used computer shops.
I also had issues installing Debian Linux on one of my laptops, but I managed to do it with Debian non-free iso, and alternative option was MX Linux that is based on Debian with some tweaks.

There are a bunch of cards that *should* work, but if you follow the link that @ETFbitcoin posted manufacturers do have the option of BIOS locking the cards.
Normally Dell does not do this, but since they / the PD did do some custom things to something in them I could wind up spending a lot of time and get nowhere.

OR it could be I just got a bad card.......

Even taking the bottom off to get to the card is a project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiGfj_Rneho

-Dave

[Welsh]

To be honest whenever I've had issues with compatibility issues, using Linux seems to always fix it due to their legacy drivers. That's not to say that it doesn't require a little bit of tinkering, but I've had machines running Windows that basically refused to operate, but switching to Linux, and it was a near seamless experience. These days I don't even run Windows at all. Completely ditched it.

Now use Debian, Fedora inside Qubes OS with Xen Hypervisor. Unfortunately, with this method a lot of the compatibility issues is hardware specific to Qubes OS due to its nature.

I don't know what's the situation with spare parts for those laptops you purchased, but you could try finding hardware maintenance manual and identify all compatible wifi cards.

They normally only specify the types of connections on hardware that are compatible, right? Probably, better looking on the internet to see what's compatible with your exact hardware, rather than using the manual which will be rather generic.

OR it could be I just got a bad card.......

Could be, if it was incompatibility issues I'd like to think there would be more users looking for support on the issue. Although, I do understand that this might be a niche issue.

[AnotherAlt]

Can anybody help me with this issue? I have been downloading the block for a while now. I am almost done now. It's happened. I was downloading the block, and suddenly, I had a power outage, and my Computer turned off. After Power-up, I tried to Open Bitcoin core and it's opens with this error "Corrupted block database detected. Do you want to rebuild the block database now?" After I click on Ok, It pops up another error " Error: Error opening block database."

Please check the screenshot below. Is there any suggestion you may suggest that could help me? It's tough to download all the blocks. I have been downloading for over a month now 

[BlackHatCoiner]

[...]

Your database is likely corrupted. Try wiping out the block index with bitcoin-qt -reindex. This will re-make the database by going all over the blk.dat files, re-validate them and rebuilding the chainstate. It'll take a lot of time.

Have you checked your debug.log for further info?

[AnotherAlt]

[...]

Your database is likely corrupted. Try wiping out the block index with bitcoin-qt -reindex. This will re-make the database by going all over the blk.dat files, re-validate them and rebuilding the chainstate. It'll take a lot of time.

I am sorry, I am totally Noob in this. Could you please help me with how to do it? Do I have to do it using the Command prompt?
ah, did you mean reinstall Bitcoin Core without uninstalling it and without deleting any data?
I have tried to open bitcoin-qt, and It opens with the same error.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I am sorry, I am totally Noob in this. Could you please help me with how to do it?

Sure. Others can also help you while I'm away from keyboard.

Do I have to do it using the Command prompt?

Yes. What's your OS?

ah, did you mean reinstall Bitcoin Core without uninstalling it and without deleting any data?

No, you shouldn't reinstall nor uninstall Bitcoin Core. Just open up your command prompt (cmd) to the directory wherein your Bitcoin Core is located. In Windows there's a "Bitcoin" directory inside "Program Files (x86)". Reply if you've found it.

Let's take it one step at a time.

[AnotherAlt]

Yes. What's your OS?

Thanks, It's Windows 10.

No, you shouldn't reinstall nor uninstall Bitcoin Core. Just open up your command prompt (cmd) to the directory wherein your Bitcoin Core is located. In Windows there's a "Bitcoin" directory inside "Program Files (x86)". Reply if you've found it.

I have chosen the directory Local Disk D because if windows crashes and I formate C drive, I won't lose the backup. That was the plan.
BTW, I have copied all the data to the C drive again and I am on that folder with CMD.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I have copied all the data to the C drive again and I am on that folder with CMD.

Good. Do you see a bitcoin-qt in that folder? If yes, enter in your cmd:

Code:

bitcoin-qt -reindex

This should open Bitcoin Core (with GUI) and start rebuilding the database. Reply me once you do it.

[AnotherAlt]

I have copied all the data to the C drive again and I am on that folder with CMD.

Good. Do you see a bitcoin-qt in that folder? If yes, enter in your cmd:

Code:

bitcoin-qt -reindex

This should open Bitcoin Core (with GUI) and start rebuilding the database. Reply me once you do it.

Woh. Thank you very much. It's started the GUI. Syncing Headers now. But looks like I am 13 years behind  

[BlackHatCoiner]

Woh. Thank you very much. It's started the GUI. Syncing Headers now. But looks like I am 13 years behind 

You're 13 years old on re-indexing. You don't download any blocks. It should take less time to finish, but still, it'll take a few hours the least.

[n0nce]

Woh. Thank you very much. It's started the GUI. Syncing Headers now. But looks like I am 13 years behind 

You're 13 years old on re-indexing. You don't download any blocks. It should take less time to finish, but still, it'll take a few hours the least.

Since this is a topic about running a cheap node: on hardware such as presented here, it takes me roughly 24h to reindex the whole blockchain. This is with 8GB of RAM though; as I've shown on page 1, upgrading to 8GB exponentially improved the verification time.

Another quick note for AnotherAlt: Make sure not to use bitcoin-qt -reindex again the next time you start it up. Been there, done that - it's easy to quickly go up arrow, enter key; as soon as you do this, it starts another reindex and you can't 'stop' or 'abort' - you'll then have to wait it through another time.

[NotATether]

Another quick note for AnotherAlt: Make sure not to use bitcoin-qt -reindex again the next time you start it up. Been there, done that - it's easy to quickly go up arrow, enter key; as soon as you do this, it starts another reindex and you can't 'stop' or 'abort' - you'll then have to wait it through another time.

You can make a bash alias for bitcoin-qt to be a shell script that checks the argument stack passed to bitcoin-qt and delete any -reindex references to it.

It doesn't even have to be a shellscript, you can make it python if you put a #!/usr/bin/python3 at the beginning.

[AnotherAlt]

Woh. Thank you very much. It's started the GUI. Syncing Headers now. But looks like I am 13 years behind  

You're 13 years old on reindexing. You don't download any blocks. It should take less time to finish, but still, it'll take a few hours at the least.

Bro, It pissed me off. It's been a couple of days now. I don't run 24/7. But, I run it for more than 12 hours daily. I feel like it's downloading the blocks again instead of reindexing. Progress per hour is literally 0.24%. I am still six years behind. I have a slow internet connection; that could be a reason, maybe? I believe 16gigs Ram should be enough with Ryzen 3 3200g.

The Bitcoin Core uses 11% of My CPU (Max) and only 400 MB Ram while reindexing.

[vjudeu]

I feel like it's downloading the blocks again instead of reindexing.

If you use pruning, then it definitely is.

[AnotherAlt]

I feel like it's downloading the blocks again instead of reindexing.

If you use pruning, then it definitely is.

Before, I didn't know the difference between a Full node and a pruned node. But I guess I understand now. Someone from this thread suggested me run pruned node because I don't run my computed 24/7. So, It's not going to help the blockchain. I live in a village and the electricity in my village is worse than you can imagine. You may ask, why not use a laptop? Well, I can buy a IPS for my PC. But Internet also sucks here. No electricity means no internet. My ISP Don't use IPS or any other power backup too. Being a farmer's son and living in a village becomes pretty hard now if I compare it with digital equipment. But, I only love nature here. So, The environment forced me to live here.

[n0nce]

I feel like it's downloading the blocks again instead of reindexing.

If you use pruning, then it definitely is.

Before, I didn't know the difference between a Full node and a pruned node. But I guess I understand now. Someone from this thread suggested me run pruned node because I don't run my computed 24/7. So, It's not going to help the blockchain.

Actually, if you have bad internet and / or power, it may be very beneficial to run a full node, because you'll be less reliant on connectivity to other peers and could look for old transactions and stuff without working internet connection.
You'll also definitely 'help the network' whenever your node is online - and, in case of an issue like here, you won't need to redownload everything. That's going to be very helpful if you have a slow connection; since every IBD won't take a few minutes or hours like on a fiber connection, but days and weeks. So I'd 100% go get a 1TB SSD and run full without pruning.

[n0nce]

[quote from different thread, but makes more sense here]

If, and that's a big if they can really get these stateside for $99
https://www.gaminghunt.net/2022/06/04/n6000-x86-single-board-computer/
I think it's going to be very interesting to see how many things that are now RPi based will go in this direction. Yes it's more then a Pi and you still have to add memory, but it's got a lot more power to do a lot more things. AND it's a lot more expandable.

Hey, so I just discovered something somewhat similar, somewhat different. Another x86 SBC, but more akin to a Pi, being based on Celeron instead of Pentium, more compact, with soldered components.

With Raspberry Pi 4 (8GB model) being sold for ~$180 USD at the moment, the ZimaBoard [1] may make more sense. For $199 you get an Intel Celeron N3450 Quad Core 1.1-2.2GHz, 32GB of eMMC flash and of course 8GB of RAM.
Compared to that (unreleased - link even went offline, not sure what's going on; a video [2] is still up) SBC you linked to earlier, it does cost double but it also comes with all components of course.
I love how it's x86 and yet still has a very low TDP, passively cooled and lots of I/O: perfect for node applications, due to dual SATA ports and a PCIe x4 for e.g. a boot OS on an SSD.

We talked about this in this thread I believe, but using a notebook may or may not give you reliability issues due to not being designed for 24/7 operation, meanwhile this SBC is specifically made to run a small local server as a private cloud or similar.


[1] https://shop.zimaboard.com/products/zimaboard-single-board-server-for-creators-8g-32gb-linux-windows-openwrt-pfsense-andorid-libreelec-development-board-low-cost-hackable-single-board-server?variant=39283928465606
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP4Tp2cpAjc

[AnotherAlt]

Do you mean you currently use a PC without UPS? If so, I would recommend you to get one to avoid the risk power outage breaking your PC.

Finally, This month I bought an IPS and Ran it in UPS Mode. It powers up my house for two hours at least. But, My Internet connection drops during the power outage. My PC has only 250 GB SSD and 4TB HDD. My blocks were on HDD. But, After I started re-indexing the blocks, I had to move them to the C drive which is located on SSD. I have only 100 GB of Free storage on my SSD. IDK if it's enough. The most Fraustrated thing is that I was using Prunning, and it started downloading the block again. My Internet speed increased a bit now. But, The progress per hour is still 0.28%. I am still five years behind. Should I delete all the blocks and core Start from the beginning and download the entire block? I don't want to Prunning since I bought an IPS, which can give me some backup during the power outage.

[Cricktor]

<snip>

When your internet connection drops out, this doesn't hurt Bitcoin Core and it's data files. It's bad when your PC suddenly goes off. If you can detect a power dropout and your UPS is about to run low on energy storage, your PC should close Bitcoin Core gracefully and shutdown OS gracefully. That will keep Bitcoin Core's data files healthy.

Why did you start re-indexing? This shouldn't be necessary when Bitcoin Core shuts down normally.

With a 4TB HDD you have enough space to store an unpruned blockchain on your HDD (current sizes are ~446 GiB for blocks, ~5 GiB for chainstate and ~37 GiB for indexes/txindex (if you enable creation of transaction index)).

Pruning is only to reduce the size of the stored blockchain but has its own disadvantages as a rescan or reindex would likely always redownload the whole blockchain to read through it. As I assume you have enough space on that HDD, in that case pruning makes no sense.

If your current download is with pruning enabled, you would need to stop it, disable pruning and restart the sync of the full blockchain.

You can speed up the sync process of the blockchain if you set at least dbcache=2048 in bitcoin.conf file or to some even higher value depending on how much RAM your PC has. Don't overdo it with too high dbcache value (it's in MiB) compared to total RAM size and what else is running on your PC. With 4 GiB RAM, I'd try with dbcache=1024, with 8 GiB RAM dbcache=2048 (or 3072, maybe 4096 could work, too). With 16 GiB RAM you might be able to use dbcache=5120 which should likely be enough to hold the UTXO set completely in RAM during sync of blockchain.

After the initial sync you can reduce the dbcache value or comment it out by placing a hash # in front of it.

[Austin.BitcoinMagazine]

Austin from Bitcoin Magazine here,

This is excellent! Let me know if interested in writing on article to be published in Bitcoin Magazine. Send email to austin@btcmedia.org if interested.

Everyone should have the opportunity to run a node.

I strongly believe that it's one of Bitcoin's core values to have as many full nodes (and preferably also miners, but that's another story ) as possible, distributed in as many households as possible.

While cool node boxes, composed of all-new hardware with SSDs and sexy metal cases can be built for between 200€ and 300€ (or dollars!), that might still be too much for many people. Especially in countries where wages are lower, I understand that this can be an infeasibly large sum of money.

https://i.imgur.com/StsZ49ll.jpg

MyNode and Argon One m.2 enclosures, full setup ~250€

The good news: it can be achieved much cheaper than the above mentioned figures! In fact, it can even be free if you have old hardware lying around.
The fact of the matter is, Bitcoin Core doesn't need a whole lot of resources and a 10-year-old, decommissioned laptop or Desktop PC might have enough power to run it.

So I would like to encourage everybody that's not running a node yet, to reconsider it if price for the device itself or an SSD was the main deterring factor.

Hardware selection
Almost any kind of desktop PC, laptop, NUC-type device of the last 10 years should suffice.

Make sure you can swap the drive (they are usually dead after such a long time) and you have a working PSU for it.
Anything else - screen, keyboard, trackpad, speakers, it can all be broken. You will SSH into the machine anyway and you can connect to a HDMI screen + USB keyboard during setup.
This kind of hardware is very often given away for free if you ask around friends and family, or got cheaply (or free) on craigslist.

Recommendations
RAM: 4GB - 8GB (Even as little as 1GB can suffice! If you have more, it's better of course See my graph down below about sync time with 4 vs 8GB)
Drive: 500GB - 1TB (HDD is fine, but SSD will help for faster initial sync. 500 will not last long and not suffice for Lightning and Electrum server - 1TB would be advised!)
CPU: Intel Core i3 (2nd generation or up tested and working just fine) or better - dual core is advised by me

If the machine you acquired, doesn't meet those specs, you can in many cases just add more RAM or swap the hard drive.
I would stay away from Chromebooks with non-replaceable drives and RAM since they're usually too small and USB drives aren't convenient.

Price
Of course, this low price is mainly made possible by relying on free and cheap old & used stuff.
The final price will depend a lot on how many things you can find for free, but it's possible to build a node from scratch for around $50.
I personally built one of my nodes off a gifted laptop that had no charger, so the person wanted to throw it away. I just bought the PSU for ~20€ and added an existing 500GB USB HDD for the bitcoin directory. So that node cost me just 20€. Here's a setup if you really can't find anything for free.

Example setup for $58:^{[JUST QUICKLY CHECKED EBAY!]}
Laptop without RAM and charger for $29:
https://i.postimg.cc/k5Wd87Js/image.png

4GB RAM for $10:
https://i.postimg.cc/vTghgZMH/image.png

Laptop charger for $10:
https://i.postimg.cc/T3686ZqW/image.png

500GB HDD for $9:
https://i.postimg.cc/sxCpH977/image.png

Of course, shipping adds up and I actually surpassed my $50 limit already. But I just checked eBay 'buy now' section very quickly! If you search locally, ask around, you will easily find someone who will give you an old laptop that doesn't turn on anymore (often broken charger and / or battery) or with cracked screen etc. for free.
Then you just source the charger and a new HDD for a total of $20!

If you actually have a working (but old) laptop already, with charger and everything, maybe invest the full $50 into a new SSD for better performance and longevity!

TL;DR
Get as much free and cheap used, old stuff as possible and slap it together!
I know it's not the 'deepest' topic that exists, but it's mainly to explain and show figuratively that running a node can be done very, very cheap and storage size is not an issue either, since HDDs are so damn cheap and can easily be swapped out.

[AnotherAlt]

AFAIK disable pruning from Bitcoin Core UI or bitcoin.conf should be enough. Just make sure you quit Bitcoin Core gracefully shutdown your computer before your IPS run out of power or configure your computer to do it automatically if your computer can see your IPS status.

I was so confused. I recently installed the latest version of core and started downloading the full block. My block folder size increased to 93 GB so I guess it's a lot for such low-speed internet. Yesterday, My computer was downloading blocks, and I was sleeping. My wife unplugged the computer's power to reduce the load on IPS during the power outage. heck boom,

The same issue as the previous one. This time I know how to re-index. I was happy that I didn't have to start from the beginning because I was not pruning this time. But, After running the command, It's always stuck here, and nothing happens.



Possible solution?

Another Question, Is it possible to download the blocks using IDM from anywhere on the internet and after completing the download, Move them to the blocks folder and re-index?

[n0nce]

AFAIK disable pruning from Bitcoin Core UI or bitcoin.conf should be enough. Just make sure you quit Bitcoin Core gracefully shutdown your computer before your IPS run out of power or configure your computer to do it automatically if your computer can see your IPS status.

I was so confused. I recently installed the latest version of core and started downloading the full block. My block folder size increased to 93 GB so I guess it's a lot for such low-speed internet.

The folder will increase up to 400+ GB, no matter the internet speed. That's the size of the whole blockchain.

Yesterday, My computer was downloading blocks, and I was sleeping. My wife unplugged the computer's power to reduce the load on IPS during the power outage. heck boom,

The same issue as the previous one. This time I know how to re-index. I was happy that I didn't have to start from the beginning because I was not pruning this time.

Exactly. It will still need to sync block headers and go through the (local) block files, though.

Basically:
[1] Synchronize headers with other nodes (takes just a few minutes usually)
[2] Reindex local blocks
[3] Continue downloading from last non-corrupted block file.

But, After running the command, It's always stuck here, and nothing happens.



Possible solution?

If that header percentage is not going up (20.5% in the screenshot), you could try gracefully closing and re-opening Bitcoin Core. Might have a connection issue with the network peers. Restarting will give you new ones.

Another Question, Is it possible to download the blocks using IDM from anywhere on the internet and after completing the download, Move them to the blocks folder and re-index?

There's honestly no real good reason to do so and it's more secure to do it through the Bitcoin protocol. However, there are people who upload snapshots regularly, such as here.

[AnotherAlt]

If that header percentage is not going up (20.5% in the screenshot), you could try gracefully closing and re-opening Bitcoin Core. Might have a connection issue with the network peers. Restarting will give you new ones.

Exactly, This stuck on 20.5%. I tried closing it gracefully and re-opening Bitcoin core. It doesn't help. It starts updating the last block time from the beginning and is stuck on ten years 46 weeks behind. It has been over a month now. I have been trying to run a full node with such a low-speed internet connection to help the network and use my own wallet.

[n0nce]

If that header percentage is not going up (20.5% in the screenshot), you could try gracefully closing and re-opening Bitcoin Core. Might have a connection issue with the network peers. Restarting will give you new ones.

Exactly, This stuck on 20.5%. I tried closing it gracefully and re-opening Bitcoin core. It doesn't help. It starts updating the last block time from the beginning and is stuck on ten years 46 weeks behind.

Do you have any peers / how many do you have? You can check this in Window > Peers.

Also, consider starting Bitcoin Core with -reindex flag to manually restart the reindexing process from the very start, again.

[AnotherAlt]

Do you have any peers / how many do you have? You can check this in Window > Peers.

Yes, I have 10 peers connected and I can see Network traffic.

[n0nce]

Do you have any peers / how many do you have? You can check this in Window > Peers.

Yes, I have 10 peers connected and I can see Network traffic.

Then I'd leave it running for a few hours; let it do its thing.
Otherwise, as I said, restart with -reindex and / or (maybe a bit crude measure - opinions welcome) remove some (probably the last few) blk files manually that have the corruptions in them.

[AnotherAlt]

@n0nce, Hi man. Finally, I am here with The Full network synchronized node.
One of my purposes was to use it as a wallet and help the network. It's just reached the last block, and I am up to date right now. What do I have to do to help the network? I can see my node received 970 MB while it sent only 15 MB. Do I have to enable/disable anything?

I have some questions about Bitcoin core options. Do you believe it's an appropriate thread to ask? Or do you suggest any other threads?

[BlackHatCoiner]

What do I have to do to help the network?

You're already helping it. The fact that you enforce consensus rules and propagate blocks means you're helping. If you want to help more than this, consider allowing incoming connections. If you don't, you'll connect with up to 8 full-relay nodes, and propagate the chain only to those. If you do, you can connect with up to 125 full nodes, and therefore share more.

To allow incoming connections you need to port forward and add a listen=1 in your configuration file. If you want to avoid the hassle of port forwarding, consider switching to Tor. You're also contributing to the Tor network that way.

[AnotherAlt]

To allow incoming connections you need to port forward and add a listen=1 in your configuration file. If you want to avoid the hassle of port forwarding, consider switching to Tor. You're also contributing to the Tor network that way.

I am a Dick-Head noob. I just read all of them and didn't get anything. I would search for a youtube video instead. I have some questions.
What will happen if I enable the RPC server?
What is the coin control feature? Is it the option to speed up the transaction by replacing the transaction fees?
What is connected through SOCKS5 Proxy? If I tick on it, it allows me to tick on Ipv4, Ipv6 and Tor.
BTW, If it's already helping the network, I don't want to disturb it by digging in the wrong side. Before, I ran pruned nodes without knowing the difference. It took me three months to run this Full node. You cannot imagine the smile on my face. It's big without sound.

[LoyceV]

What do I have to do to help the network?

Since you're using a VPN, your Bitcoin Core can't be reached from the outside world unless the VPN provider allows port forwarding. But, considering your low bandwidth and throttling ISP, allowing full uploads may not be the best idea. I don't think the Bitcoin network lacks bandwidth anyway: my server uploaded only 900 GB in 34 days, which is much, much less than it can handle. The server is idling, so I take it there's no demand for more bandwidth.

What is the coin control feature?

Enable it, select your own Inputs under the Send tab. I always use it, great for privacy and great for optimizing transaction fees.

Is it the option to speed up the transaction by replacing the transaction fees?

It depends.... See my topic on fees.

[BlackHatCoiner]

What will happen if I enable the RPC server?

You'll allow other computers to execute commands in your full node. For example, I request your node to return me a raw transaction. An example of RPC usage appears often in block explorers. Here's an example: https://mempool.space/api/tx/0e3e2357e806b6cdb1f70b54c3a3a17b6714ee1f0e68bebb44a74b1efd512098/hex.

Here's what happens in the background:

• Client (the user who's visiting the explorer) requests to have the raw transaction by the id: 0e3e2357e806b6cdb1f70b54c3a3a17b6714ee1f0e68bebb44a74b1efd512098.
• Mempool.space sends this request to their full node.
• Mempool.space's full node runs bitcoin-cli getrawtransaction "0e3e2357e806b6cdb1f70b54c3a3a17b6714ee1f0e68bebb44a74b1efd512098", and gets 010000000[...]ac00000000 (which is the raw transaction).
• They send the raw transaction to mempool.space.
• Mempool.space sends you the raw transaction.

That's what an RPC server does. It transmits this useful information from a full node across other protocols.

What is the coin control feature? Is it the option to speed up the transaction by replacing the transaction fees?

No. Coin control is when you individually select which UTXO you're about to spend, and when you don't let the wallet software pick them for you. It doesn't have to do with RBF, which is what you're asking.

What is connected through SOCKS5 Proxy? If I tick on it, it allows me to tick on Ipv4, Ipv6 and Tor.

Proxy is used in this case to route your outgoing & incoming traffic through Tor.

[AnotherAlt]

my server uploaded only 900 GB in 34 days, which is much, much less than it can handle.

Where do you find this info? Is it from the Network Traffic tab? If so, don't you have a power outage?
I guess, somewhere, I read that I can check on the internet if my node is contributing or not. IDK, maybe I didn't understand.

Enable it, and select your own Inputs under the Send tab. I always use it, great for privacy and great for optimizing transaction fees.

I just enabled it. I was wondering how people do that. How do they have multiple addresses in the same wallet? I used Atomic wallet, and it has only one address that cannot be changed.

That's what an RPC server does.

I got it. Do you believe I should enable it? Does it help the whole network? Or does it only help mempool?

Not Sure Where it is most appropriate. I received my first ever signature payment, which is $40 In Bitcoin.
I want to add another $10 to round up $50 and donate to someone who wants to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!
It's hard for me to buy that hardware cheaply and run another full node with such internet and power issues. Whoever can do it, I will appreciate it, and I would like to help with my first ever signature income.

Cheers!

[LoyceV]

my server uploaded only 900 GB in 34 days, which is much, much less than it can handle.

Where do you find this info? Is it from the Network Traffic tab?

I used this:

Code:

./bitcoincore/bitcoin-23.0/bin/bitcoin-cli getnettotals

I assume the GUI would show the same in the Network Traffic tab indeed.

If so, don't you have a power outage?

I'm not sure what that has to do with the Network Traffic.

I was wondering how people do that. How do they have multiple addresses in the same wallet?

Click Receive tab > Create new receiving address > click as many times as you want.

$50 and donate to someone who wants to run a Bitcoin Core full node for under 50 bucks!

My advice: do it yourself I'm running one already, but there's not really a point in paying someone else to run a node.
What hardware are you now using for Bitcoin Core? It doesn't have to be dedicated hardware, if it doesn't consume too much resources you can run it just fine on your daily machine.

I received my first ever signature payment, which is $40 In Bitcoin.

Congrats! Frame it Make something special out of it and see what it's worth in 10 years.

[AnotherAlt]

I used this:

Code:

./bitcoincore/bitcoin-23.0/bin/bitcoin-cli getnettotals

I assume the GUI would show the same in the Network Traffic tab indeed.

Do you use this On command prompt?

I'm not sure what that has to do with the Network Traffic.

Well, I use UPS right now. But, due to a long time power outage. Sometimes it forcibly shut down my PC. Every time I close my Bitcoin core, The network traffic on the GUI start showing new data from a new session. That's why I asked this.

My advice: do it yourself I'm running one already, but there's not really a point in paying someone else to run a node.

I wish I could reveal where I am from. Computer hardware prices are too high here. The old market also has some ridiculous prices. Too much vat tax is another issue. That's why people don't even dare to import.

What hardware are you now using for Bitcoin Core? It doesn't have to be dedicated hardware, if it doesn't consume too many resources you can run it just fine on your daily machine.

I am using my daily use Desktop. Ryzen 3 3200G with 16 Gigs Ram, 250GB SSD and 4TB HDD. I am running the full node on this desktop already.

I cannot even imagine the price n0nce mentioned. I wouldn't dare to import here.

A Simple Question; Can I copy all the block data, move it to another hard drive, and try to run the node? Do you believe it will work? Because downloading the whole blockchain is the biggest issue with such internet Speed.

[n0nce]

Where do you find this info? Is it from the Network Traffic tab? If so, don't you have a power outage?
I guess, somewhere, I read that I can check on the internet if my node is contributing or not. IDK, maybe I didn't understand.

You probably mean https://bitnodes.io/.
If you run a clearnet node (not through Tor), you should be able to find your node by its IP if everything is working fine.

my server uploaded only 900 GB in 34 days, which is much, much less than it can handle.

Where do you find this info? Is it from the Network Traffic tab?

I used this:

Code:

./bitcoincore/bitcoin-23.0/bin/bitcoin-cli getnettotals

I assume the GUI would show the same in the Network Traffic tab indeed.

It does. You can also open the 'Console' window and type getnettotals, though - numbers match up!

I'm not sure what that has to do with the Network Traffic.

Well, I use UPS right now. But, due to a long time power outage. Sometimes it forcibly shut down my PC. Every time I close my Bitcoin core, The network traffic on the GUI start showing new data from a new session. That's why I asked this.

I believe those statistics are resetted when you reboot, yes.

A Simple Question; Can I copy all the block data, move it to another hard drive, and try to run the node? Do you believe it will work? Because downloading the whole blockchain is the biggest issue with such internet Speed.

Yes, it should work! It's possible that it needs to be reindexed, e.g. if you copy while it's running or so, but that is pure local computation, so no worries about network speed.
Actually, I'd recommend you backup the whole bitcoin data directory (after gracefully closing Bitcoin Core), if you have the disk space, so you have a sort of 'checkpoint' that you can restore in case something goes south.

Bitcoin data directory location for different operating systems:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory

[LoyceV]

Do you use this On command prompt?

Yes (on Linux).

Well, I use UPS right now. But, due to a long time power outage. Sometimes it forcibly shut down my PC. Every time I close my Bitcoin core, The network traffic on the GUI start showing new data from a new session. That's why I asked this.

I assume most people have more reliable power, my last disruption was years ago, and announced ahead. But one of the perks of using a laptop is the build-in UPS

I wish I could reveal where I am from. Computer hardware prices are too high here. The old market also has some ridiculous prices. Too much vat tax is another issue. That's why people don't even dare to import.

That's unfortunate. We pay high VAT, and new computers are getting more expensive, but since the market is saturated, older computers are abundant and cheap.

I am using my daily use Desktop. Ryzen 3 3200G with 16 Gigs Ram, 250GB SSD and 4TB HDD. I am running the full node on this desktop already.

In that case: just let it run You may want to move your chainstate directory to the SSD though, that large improves performance.

[AnotherAlt]

my last disruption was years ago, and announced ahead.

Huh? Is it for real? We cannot imagine this even in dreams. 

That's unfortunate. We pay high VAT, and new computers are getting more expensive, but since the market is saturated, older computers are abundant and cheap.

About new computers, Yes. It's the same here. Also, the Old market is getting more expensive here. Recently, GPU prices dropped. But, in my country. Shopkeepers always say "Sir, It's an old shipment" (which is never going to finish). On the other side, If the price increase in the global market, They get a new shipment within a few hours.

[n0nce]

A Simple Question; Can I copy all the block data, move it to another hard drive, and try to run the node? Do you believe it will work? Because downloading the whole blockchain is the biggest issue with such internet Speed.

Yes, it should work! It's possible that it needs to be reindexed, e.g. if you copy while it's running or so, but that is pure local computation, so no worries about network speed.

Reindexing ~450GB take more time than copying 450GB between 2 HDD though, even when you have SSD and big RAM. So it's strongly recommended to close Bitcoin Core gracefully before making a copy.

True, but AnotherAlt's main problem is still the internet connection. Reindexing may take a week, but re-download may take months (if I remember correctly)..

my last disruption was years ago, and announced ahead.

Huh? Is it for real? We cannot imagine this even in dreams. 

Similar at my current place; no outages for many years. However, it makes me appreciate it even more that you're giving your best to keep a node up and running in your location. You're probably one of few in your area who do it (due to those issues), so it kind of makes your node even more important!
You may even consider offering local Bitcoin community members to get the full blockchain as complete copy on a HDD (they would just need to reindex / re-verify it) from you!