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Author Topic: S19 Power Requirements  (Read 268 times)
Helios45 (OP)
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October 23, 2021, 05:04:38 AM
Merited by NotATether (2)
 #1

So I'm planning for a small farm setup to accommodate 25 S19J Pro 100T in the beginning with room to expand up to 50 units in the near future
As per Bitmain, each unit draws about 3000w at 200~240v and the power supply has two inputs.
A 20amp circuit at 240v can handle up to 3,840w at 80% load
A 30amp circuit at 240v can handle up to 5,760w at 80% load
Considering this, is it safe to use 20 amp circuits for each antminer instead of going for 30 amp ? Thanks all
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PT-Mining
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October 23, 2021, 05:34:48 AM
 #2

i cant follow your calculation??? Theres something wrong.
One S19 draws apprx. 13-15A.
20A should be all fine
danieleither
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October 26, 2021, 07:52:49 PM
 #3

I run S19's and Whatsminer M31's (which draw 3700w each) - they are all on 20A feeds without any problems.

20A is ideal for 19 series Bitmain. Next down would be 16A and that will have problems most likely
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October 26, 2021, 08:26:11 PM
 #4

i cant follow your calculation??? Theres something wrong.

At 240v one circuit is 4800 for 20 amps and the other 7200, 80% out of those gets you 3840 and 5760, that 20% is for safety.
20 is more than enough for an S19 and 30 is not going to be a solution to run two of them, go for simplicity and safety.

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October 26, 2021, 08:37:38 PM
 #5

So I'm planning for a small farm setup to accommodate 25 S19J Pro 100T in the beginning with room to expand up to 50 units in the near future
As per Bitmain, each unit draws about 3000w at 200~240v and the power supply has two inputs.
A 20amp circuit at 240v can handle up to 3,840w at 80% load
A 30amp circuit at 240v can handle up to 5,760w at 80% load
Considering this, is it safe to use 20 amp circuits for each antminer instead of going for 30 amp ? Thanks all

No if you get extended sag in volts.


3400-3600 watts is max an s19 should pull

210 x 20 x .80 = 3360 watts which is on the line of okay.

Maybe you will never see an issue but it could be borderline on a hot summer day.

Been there done that but our sag is lower than 210 volts we sometimes go to 190 volts.

We have all gear on 30 amps due to this issue.

So if you want to go cheap and do 20amp wire and breakers it is likely okay  but may not be.

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October 26, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
Merited by Coinfarm ventures (1)
 #6

I would love to add a small but very important piece of information, do NOT oversize your MCBs, it comes at a huge risk, the main purpose of the MCB is to actually protect the wire from overloading, some people think if the breaker trips you can just use a large one and all your problems are solved, that is NOT the case.

As for Phill's point, it's true, you do want to account for voltage drops, but IF the voltage drops too often and lasts for enough period of time that doesn't let you run an S19 on a 20A breaker, then your main concern would be the safety of the PSUs themselves, at 210V an S19 will draw 17A, which isn't bad for a 20A breaker since that drop should be temporary, so by replacing it with a 30A (assuming your wire size allowed it) it will run even at below 200v, but then your miners will RIP if that happens too often.

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October 27, 2021, 03:31:02 PM
Merited by NotATether (1)
 #7

So I'm planning for a small farm setup to accommodate 25 S19J Pro 100T in the beginning with room to expand up to 50 units in the near future
As per Bitmain, each unit draws about 3000w at 200~240v and the power supply has two inputs.
A 20amp circuit at 240v can handle up to 3,840w at 80% load
A 30amp circuit at 240v can handle up to 5,760w at 80% load
Considering this, is it safe to use 20 amp circuits for each antminer instead of going for 30 amp ? Thanks all

Cool cool, with that much power I can somewhat assume this will be a three phase power coming in. Three phase generally comes in at 208 pole to pole and 120 pole to neutral (WYE). If you bring in 480v you can get a 230 volt transformer but will loose the 120v capability (DELTA).  Personally I would run the delta config tapped a little over 240 volts. 

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July 20, 2022, 08:48:29 PM
 #8

...it will run even at below 200v, but then your miners will RIP if that happens too often.

Is there a place where this is elaborated on? How many cycles of <200V would cause the miner to RIP?

I'm asking because I'm interested in how many cycles a standard S19 PSU could be at 0V before RIP.
NotFuzzyWarm
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July 20, 2022, 11:52:14 PM
Last edit: July 21, 2022, 08:04:07 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
Merited by mikeywith (2)
 #9

...it will run even at below 200v, but then your miners will RIP if that happens too often.

Is there a place where this is elaborated on? How many cycles of <200V would cause the miner to RIP?
I'm asking because I'm interested in how many cycles a standard S19 PSU could be at 0V before RIP.
Short answer: not many and for any 1-event not for very long. If for some reason the miner/PSU continues to operate you risk serious damage to the PSU. Good part is that the PSU *should* shut down before damage occurs. Bad part is that given your concern I take it you have a very low/unstable power source - big problem.

If the main issue is just a line that normally holds around 208VAC (preferably higher) and occasionally may drop below 200v you may be ok, just expect the miners to hopefully shutdown and then restart once the powerline is back into a usable range. If dropping to a low line voltage is a fairly common thing you need to address that.

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July 21, 2022, 01:55:55 AM
 #10

Cool cool, with that much power I can somewhat assume this will be a three phase power coming in. Three phase generally comes in at 208 pole to pole and 120 pole to neutral (WYE). If you bring in 480v you can get a 230 volt transformer but will loose the 120v capability (DELTA).  Personally I would run the delta config tapped a little over 240 volts.  
What you're saying is specific to the U.S. / North America. I have to worry about the 208 volt / 240 volt difference for sure and the delta/wye stuff. I also prefer 240v delta because higher voltage = more wattage available, plus less current through cables, so higher efficiency.

The rest of the world can actually have 230v or even just 220v, not to mention 50 Hz instead of 60 Hz. Japan actually has just 100 volts! Residential buildings in some European countries actually have three-phase service.
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July 21, 2022, 11:35:43 AM
 #11

...it will run even at below 200v, but then your miners will RIP if that happens too often.

Is there a place where this is elaborated on? How many cycles of <200V would cause the miner to RIP?
I'm asking because I'm interested in how many cycles a standard S19 PSU could be at 0V before RIP.
Short answer: not many and for any 1-event not for very long. If for some reason the miner/PSU continues to operate you risk serious damage to the PSU. Good part is that the PSU *should* shut down before damage occurs. Bad part is that given your concern I take it you have a very low/unstable power source - big problem.

If the main issue is just a line that normally holds around 208VAC (preferably higher) and occasionally may drop below 200v you may be ok, just expect the miners to hopefully restart once the powerline is back into a usable range. If dropping to a low line voltage is a fairly common thing you need to address that.

Thanks for the reply.

It sounds like some sort of intermediary device would be needed to help regulate the voltage so an immediate drop wouldn't occur. I've considered a standard UPS system but am trying to avoid excess equipment where I can.
mikeywith
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July 21, 2022, 07:58:00 PM
 #12

It sounds like some sort of intermediary device would be needed to help regulate the voltage so an immediate drop wouldn't occur. I've considered a standard UPS system but am trying to avoid excess equipment where I can.

You don't need UPS, you need a voltage stabilizer/ regulator, keep in mind these terms get abused by marketing, some label that tiny stuff you plug in the wall as "voltage stabilizer 230v" to trick you into thinking that they will step up the voltage if it goes below that while in fact, all they do is cut the output when voltage drops, that's more like "voltage protector", the stabilizer I am talking about consist of real transformer that is capable of actually providing a 220v output regardless of the input (of course within its' promised range).

NT (Chinese) and Lioa (Vietnamese) make some good voltage stabilizers at a very good price, I have tried both but I prefer Lioa, they have different types and prices, the main difference would be the size in KW and the lower bound voltage, as it ranges from 50v to 150v, the ones that can bring 50v up to 220V will cost a lot more, just be careful with sizing these stabilizers, if it says 20KW you only get to draw that much if the difference between the input voltage and the out voltage is almost nothing, the lower the input voltage gets the less of an output capacity you get, below is a simple chart made by Lioa explaining that



Source: http://lioa.com.vn/en/san-pham/ap-ap-1-pha/automatic-voltage-stabilizer-1-phase-0

An example, if your input voltage is 90v, you lose half the capacity, also keep in mind most of these products state the capacity in KVA which isn't exactly the same as a KW, you should always use a power factor of 0.85 to be somehow safe.

So a 20KVA stabilizer gives you a max capacity of 17KW, say your lowest input voltage is 150V, then you lose another 25% so that leaves you with no more than 12.75kw.

NotFuzzyWarm could probably chime in with more "electrical knowledge" since mine is pretty limited.

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July 22, 2022, 01:59:09 PM
 #13

...it will run even at below 200v, but then your miners will RIP if that happens too often.

Is there a place where this is elaborated on? How many cycles of <200V would cause the miner to RIP?
I'm asking because I'm interested in how many cycles a standard S19 PSU could be at 0V before RIP.
Short answer: not many and for any 1-event not for very long. If for some reason the miner/PSU continues to operate you risk serious damage to the PSU. Good part is that the PSU *should* shut down before damage occurs. Bad part is that given your concern I take it you have a very low/unstable power source - big problem.

If the main issue is just a line that normally holds around 208VAC (preferably higher) and occasionally may drop below 200v you may be ok, just expect the miners to hopefully shutdown and then restart once the powerline is back into a usable range. If dropping to a low line voltage is a fairly common thing you need to address that.


A question on Voltage Ride Through (VRT) on transmission connected bitcoin mines then - would a nearby contingency that drops voltage to 0.0 pu for a few cycles before protection equipment isolates the fault cause a secondary fault on nearby bitcoin mines, AKA cause a cascade?

Sounds like the stock PSU specs don't elaborate on transient characteristics, and not sure if anyone is going to know these things off hand, ha! A cap bank or co-located storage would surely provide some VRT support here, but a heuristic for how PSUs handle transient voltage levels would be a nice starting point.

From what I've gathered here, PSUs wouldn't ride through any sort of transient voltage levels below their spec stated range, and would require additional equipment to handle the transient cycle-level dips of great magnitude.

First time posting here, thanks!
NotFuzzyWarm
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July 22, 2022, 03:15:50 PM
Last edit: July 22, 2022, 08:14:09 PM by NotFuzzyWarm
 #14

Quote
From what I've gathered here, PSUs wouldn't ride through any sort of transient voltage levels below their spec stated range, and would require additional equipment to handle the transient cycle-level dips of great magnitude.
Correct.
The PSU's used by Bitmain and Canaan do provide the hold-up time spec but as with just about any PSU it is a very short time of at most 2-3 cycles (at most a few 10's of ms) which is just barely enough time for say, a relay in a standby UPS or a switched voltage regulator to operate. I'd assume that other PSU's used by Innosilicon or MicroBT are similar.

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-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
overmind22
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July 23, 2022, 07:04:11 PM
 #15

I am currently running 2 S19 110TH Pro's off one 50amp circuit and a nice PDU. working perfect no problem so far
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