Bitcoin Forum
March 28, 2024, 08:46:26 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: please delete  (Read 137 times)
SapphireSpire (OP)
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 49
Merit: 38


View Profile
October 28, 2021, 05:09:20 PM
Last edit: January 11, 2024, 03:49:45 AM by SapphireSpire
 #1

nothing to see
1711615586
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711615586

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711615586
Reply with quote  #2

1711615586
Report to moderator
1711615586
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711615586

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711615586
Reply with quote  #2

1711615586
Report to moderator
1711615586
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711615586

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711615586
Reply with quote  #2

1711615586
Report to moderator
Remember that Bitcoin is still beta software. Don't put all of your money into BTC!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1711615586
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711615586

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711615586
Reply with quote  #2

1711615586
Report to moderator
1711615586
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711615586

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711615586
Reply with quote  #2

1711615586
Report to moderator
garlonicon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 789
Merit: 1910


View Profile
October 28, 2021, 05:18:31 PM
 #2

Yes, see block 364292 with hash 000000000000000003dd2fdbb484d6d9c349d644d8bbb3cbfa5e67f639a465fe, there is one small coinbase transaction 6dcc37358d08b6adee18deb22f037326b5e659c2030189fbf774344c9fb39152 and one megatransaction bb41a757f405890fb0f5856228e23b715702d714d59bf2b1feb70d8b2b4e3e08. The problem is you cannot join small transactions to form a bigger one today if you are not the owner of that coins. It has to be done by users, if they will create and sign that transaction, then you can mine it.
Quote
If so, I hope it can implemented as an option, like a soft fork.
No fork is needed. Any solo miner or mining pool can do that, such block will be valid, as you can see in the example above.

Hold your horses before deploying blockchain-related things. You don't want to deploy SHA-1 collision without deploying hardened SHA-1. Once you reveal some code, and make it Open Source, there is no "undo" button. Once you share some idea, there is no way to erase it from reader's memory.
oryhp
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 57
Merit: 87


View Profile
October 28, 2021, 05:19:15 PM
 #3

What you're looking for is a monoidal structure of a transaction where you could just add two together to form a new joint transaction. This is what Mimblewimble does, but it requires a different transaction model. You'd need to have a noninteractive way to merge transactions.
I don't see how one would do that with the current Bitcoin transactions.
garlonicon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 789
Merit: 1910


View Profile
October 28, 2021, 05:37:07 PM
Merited by ABCbits (2), NotATether (2)
 #4

Quote
1. You only own the coins in an output of a transaction, not the whole transaction.
If you have some typical transaction with SIGHASH_ALL, you cannot just move signatures from one transaction to another without asking coin owners to make another signature for your joined transaction.
Quote
2. Merging transactions won't spend any outputs.
It will spend the same outputs as original transactions, so if you join transactions from your mempool, then it is seen as some double-spending attempt. If you join RBF transactions, then that could be accepted, but you will still need new signatures from all participants.
Quote
I don't see how one would do that with the current Bitcoin transactions.
It is possible now, but unsafe, because it works only for inputs where you can move exactly the same input script to some other transaction and it still will be valid. For example, if some coins are locked with "OP_HASH256 <some_hash> OP_EQUAL", then you can just copy that input to another transaction. For all typical opcodes like OP_CHECKSIG or OP_CHECKMULTISIG it does not work, because typical signature is applied to the whole unsigned transaction. But if SIGHASH_SINGLE is used, then only one input and one output is signed, so you can copy that signature to another joined transaction. However, there are some issues when SIGHASH_SINGLE is used in a transaction where some input does not have matching output, so creating such outputs is possible, but unsafe.

Hold your horses before deploying blockchain-related things. You don't want to deploy SHA-1 collision without deploying hardened SHA-1. Once you reveal some code, and make it Open Source, there is no "undo" button. Once you share some idea, there is no way to erase it from reader's memory.
NotATether
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1554
Merit: 6531


bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org


View Profile WWW
October 28, 2021, 07:14:30 PM
 #5

The problem is you cannot join small transactions to form a bigger one today if you are not the owner of that coins.
1. You only own the coins in an output of a transaction, not the whole transaction.
2. Merging transactions won't spend any outputs.

Well, as others have said, this would require all owners of the inputs inside the megatransaction sign them with their private keys. Even finding a way to contact all the owners via Bitcoin protocol will be a Herculean task because the transactions were not directly broadcasted to you (the miner), but through a series of other nodes.

As you are a miner, you *could* propagate the megatransaction to override the smaller ones, but all bets are off if any of the smaller ones are placed in a block by a rival miner.

..JAMBLER.io..Create Your Bitcoin Mixing
Business Now for   F R E E 
▄█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████▀████████████████████
███▀█████▄█▀███▀▀▀██████
██▀█████▄█▄██████████████
██▄▄████▀▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▄▄██████
█████▄▄▄██████████▀▄████
█████▀▄█▄██████▀█▄█████
███████▀▄█▀█▄██▀█▄███████
█████████▄█▀▄█▀▄█████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
      OUR      
PARTNERS

.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
████▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████▀
▄█████████████████████████████
████████▀▀█████▀▀████████
█████▀█████████████▀█████
████████████████████████
███████████████▄█████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████████▀█████████
████████████████████████
█████▄█████████████▄█████
████████▄▄█████▄▄████████
▀█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
   INVEST   
BITCOIN

.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
████▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████▀
pooya87
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3402
Merit: 10431



View Profile
October 29, 2021, 04:09:19 AM
 #6

update: Yes! But this will only work on transactions with inputs signed with a [removed scamsite url]SIGHASH_SINGLE|ANYONECANPAY flag or a SIGHASH_NONE|ANYONECANPAY flag.
This is not practical because when SigHash SINGLE and NONE are used in regular single-sig outputs the user can't really control where their coins are going.
In case of NONE they have no control so anyone can steal their coins by sending them to their own keys, and in case of SINGLE they have no control over their change since the chances of someone sending all their coins to a single output is small, they always have a change an you can only decide one output with SINGLE not the other.

Practically these SigHash flags only make sense for multi-sig outputs where at least one signer is responsible to make sure the transaction can not change by signing it with SigHash_ALL flag and others can ignore the "details" (such as the destination of the coins) by signing the tx with other flags.
This is why when you look at the blockchains you don't really see these flags be used anywhere.

..JAMBLER.io..Create Your Bitcoin Mixing
Business Now for   F R E E 
▄█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████▀████████████████████
███▀█████▄█▀███▀▀▀██████
██▀█████▄█▄██████████████
██▄▄████▀▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▄▄██████
█████▄▄▄██████████▀▄████
█████▀▄█▄██████▀█▄█████
███████▀▄█▀█▄██▀█▄███████
█████████▄█▀▄█▀▄█████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
      OUR      
PARTNERS

.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
████▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████▀
▄█████████████████████████████
████████▀▀█████▀▀████████
█████▀█████████████▀█████
████████████████████████
███████████████▄█████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████████▀█████████
████████████████████████
█████▄█████████████▄█████
████████▄▄█████▄▄████████
▀█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
   INVEST   
BITCOIN

.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
████▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████▀
DannyHamilton
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3346
Merit: 4505



View Profile
October 29, 2021, 04:53:29 AM
Merited by ABCbits (2)
 #7

By replacing thousands of separate transaction headers and IDs with just one transaction header and ID, I could pack more transactions into my blocks

There are no transaction IDs stored in the block, so you won't save anything there.

What you would potentially save is:
  • The 4 byte version number from each transaction
  • The 4 byte locktime from each transaction
  • The 2 byte witness flag from each transaction
  • The in-counter from each transaction (typically 1 btye)
  • The out-counter from each transaction (typically 1 byte)

However, given the larger number of inputs and outputs in your "single monolithic transaction", your in-counter and out-counter would almost certainly end up being an extra byte or so each.

Not a huge saving overall, but might allow you to fit an extra few transactions in the block if you could find enough mergeable transactions or could get enough people to re-sign the new transaction.
HCP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086
Merit: 4315

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
October 30, 2021, 03:54:21 AM
Merited by pooya87 (1), ABCbits (1)
 #8

[removed scamsite url]
What??? The BitcoinSV wiki doesn't look like a scam site to me.
It's not such much that the BitcoinSV Wiki is a scam site, per se... it's that some (a lot of?) people consider BitcoinSV as a whole to be a "scam", in that claims were made like "BitcoinSV is the one true Bitcoin" etc. Wink Tongue

..JAMBLER.io..Create Your Bitcoin Mixing
Business Now for   F R E E 
▄█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████▀████████████████████
███▀█████▄█▀███▀▀▀██████
██▀█████▄█▄██████████████
██▄▄████▀▄▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▄▄██████
█████▄▄▄██████████▀▄████
█████▀▄█▄██████▀█▄█████
███████▀▄█▀█▄██▀█▄███████
█████████▄█▀▄█▀▄█████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
      OUR      
PARTNERS

.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
████▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████▀
▄█████████████████████████████
████████▀▀█████▀▀████████
█████▀█████████████▀█████
████████████████████████
███████████████▄█████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████████▀█████████
████████████████████████
█████▄█████████████▄█████
████████▄▄█████▄▄████████
▀█████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
.
   INVEST   
BITCOIN

.
█████████████████████████████████████████████████
████▄
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
████▀
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!