Bitcoin Forum
December 09, 2016, 12:26:44 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: The term "mining" has got to go  (Read 4025 times)
PLATO
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 277


Subversive


View Profile WWW
April 04, 2011, 08:20:41 PM
 #21

I like the term 'hash processing' more than 'transaction Processing' but less than 'mining'.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481243204
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481243204

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481243204
Reply with quote  #2

1481243204
Report to moderator
1481243204
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481243204

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481243204
Reply with quote  #2

1481243204
Report to moderator
1481243204
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481243204

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481243204
Reply with quote  #2

1481243204
Report to moderator
Alex Beckenham
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
April 05, 2011, 06:35:38 AM
 #22

I like the term 'hash processing' more than 'transaction Processing' but less than 'mining'.

But mainstream people won't know what a hash is, other than perhaps this: #


Jim Hyslop
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
April 05, 2011, 11:27:27 AM
 #23

I like the term 'hash processing' more than 'transaction Processing' but less than 'mining'.

But mainstream people won't know what a hash is, other than perhaps this: #
Or something you order at breakfast.

Like my answer? Did I help? Tips gratefully accepted here: 1H6wM8Xj8GNrhqWBrnDugd8Vf3nAfZgMnq
deadlizard
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112



View Profile
April 05, 2011, 11:39:44 AM
 #24

I like the term 'hash processing' more than 'transaction Processing' but less than 'mining'.

But mainstream people won't know what a hash is, other than perhaps this: #
Or something you order at breakfast.
or something you order at the silk road Wink

btc address:1MEyKbVbmMVzVxLdLmt4Zf1SZHFgj56aqg
gpg fingerprint:DD1AB28F8043D0837C86A4CA7D6367953C6FE9DC

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420



View Profile WWW
April 05, 2011, 12:53:43 PM
 #25

I like the term 'hash processing' more than 'transaction Processing' but less than 'mining'.

But mainstream people won't know what a hash is, other than perhaps this: #
Or something you order at breakfast.
or something you order at the silk road Wink

Or running around drunk with a bunch of people.

moneyandtech.com
@moneyandtech @jeredkenna
tiberiandusk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 580


The North Remembers


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2011, 01:59:50 PM
 #26

How about Validators or Operators? We are validating the transactions and operating the backbone.

Bitcoin Auction House http://www.BitBid.net BTC - 1EwfBVC6BwA6YeqcYZmm3htwykK3MStW6N | LTC - LdBpJJHj4WSAsUqaTbwyJQFiG1tVjo4Uys Don't get Goxed.
LightRider
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1488


I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2011, 02:03:28 PM
 #27

Coin generation.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
Sedo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 23


View Profile
April 05, 2011, 06:37:04 PM
 #28

Chain-Forging?

I would like some kind of name that points out the miners contribution to the block-chains strenght/security.
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420



View Profile WWW
April 05, 2011, 09:22:40 PM
 #29

what about something like reinforcement?

moneyandtech.com
@moneyandtech @jeredkenna
eMansipater
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294



View Profile WWW
April 06, 2011, 03:42:12 AM
 #30

Coin generation.
-1
actually, -50

Miners do not generate coins.  They process and secure transactions, for which we, the bitcoin community, reward them from a preset pile which has existed from the very beginning of the bitcoin implementation.  It's an important difference.  We all need to get used to both thinking of it and explaining it this way.

If you found my post helpful, feel free to send a small tip to 1QGukeKbBQbXHtV6LgkQa977LJ3YHXXW8B
Visit the BitCoin Q&A Site to ask questions or share knowledge.
0.009 BTC too confusing?  Use mBTC instead!  Details at www.em-bit.org or visit the project thread to help make Bitcoin prices more human-friendly.
Jim Hyslop
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
April 07, 2011, 04:03:28 AM
 #31

Chain-Forging?

I would like some kind of name that points out the miners contribution to the block-chains strenght/security.
Might have some negative connotations to it:

"I wear the chain I forged in life," replied the Ghost. "I made it link by link; and yard by yard. I girded it on of my own free will, and of my own free will I wore it...." (Charles Dickens, "A Christmas Carol")

Like my answer? Did I help? Tips gratefully accepted here: 1H6wM8Xj8GNrhqWBrnDugd8Vf3nAfZgMnq
LightRider
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1488


I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


View Profile WWW
April 07, 2011, 04:12:02 AM
 #32

Coin generation.
-1
actually, -50

Miners do not generate coins.  They process and secure transactions, for which we, the bitcoin community, reward them from a preset pile which has existed from the very beginning of the bitcoin implementation.  It's an important difference.  We all need to get used to both thinking of it and explaining it this way.

Gonna have to edit the Weusecoins video then, I guess. And the subtitle of the Mining sub-forum.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
eMansipater
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294



View Profile WWW
April 07, 2011, 07:02:51 AM
 #33

Coin generation.
-1
actually, -50

Miners do not generate coins.  They process and secure transactions, for which we, the bitcoin community, reward them from a preset pile which has existed from the very beginning of the bitcoin implementation.  It's an important difference.  We all need to get used to both thinking of it and explaining it this way.

Gonna have to edit the Weusecoins video then, I guess. And the subtitle of the Mining sub-forum.
Unfortunately, yes--it's very understandable that you adopted this terminology yourself and I certainly meant no slight against you--but this is something the entire community needs to change.

If you found my post helpful, feel free to send a small tip to 1QGukeKbBQbXHtV6LgkQa977LJ3YHXXW8B
Visit the BitCoin Q&A Site to ask questions or share knowledge.
0.009 BTC too confusing?  Use mBTC instead!  Details at www.em-bit.org or visit the project thread to help make Bitcoin prices more human-friendly.
Alex Beckenham
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


View Profile
April 08, 2011, 10:53:09 AM
 #34

Coin generation.
-1
actually, -50

Miners do not generate coins.  They process and secure transactions, for which we, the bitcoin community, reward them from a preset pile which has existed from the very beginning of the bitcoin implementation.  It's an important difference.  We all need to get used to both thinking of it and explaining it this way.

Gonna have to edit the Weusecoins video then, I guess. And the subtitle of the Mining sub-forum.

And the menu option in the client that says "Generate Coins".

divergenta
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 162



View Profile
April 08, 2011, 11:52:37 AM
 #35

Sounds like someone's been playing too much Minecraft. Grin

That was my first thought as well!  Grin

FooDSt4mP
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182


View Profile
April 09, 2011, 05:57:56 AM
 #36

I like the term 'hash processing' more than 'transaction Processing' but less than 'mining'.

But mainstream people won't know what a hash is, other than perhaps this: #
Or something you order at breakfast.
or something you order at the silk road Wink

Or running around drunk with a bunch of people.

+10

As we slide down the banister of life, this is just another splinter in our ass.
Pieter Wuille
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036


View Profile WWW
April 09, 2011, 12:04:19 PM
 #37

Coin generation.
-1
actually, -50

Miners do not generate coins.  They process and secure transactions, for which we, the bitcoin community, reward them from a preset pile which has existed from the very beginning of the bitcoin implementation.  It's an important difference.  We all need to get used to both thinking of it and explaining it this way.

Yes and no.

Technically, you are wrong. Miners create blocks, and blocks introduce new coins to the system. Each unspent transaction output ("coin") is traceable to the blocks it descends from, and not further. At the level of the block chain, there is no pre-existing pile of coins, only a formula which determines how much new BTC each block is allowed to introduce. There is no bitcoin community involved here, except that our acceptance of the rules gives (real life) value to BTC.

However.

I like your way of looking at it. Since the formula for the value of coins sums up to a finite amount, you can identify the sum of the coinbases of all not-yet-mined blocks with a pile, and say miners of new blocks are allowed take from that pile, in a controlled way.

So, I applaud your effort to explain how the system works in a nice way, but maybe it can confuse people who are trying to understand it at the technical level.

aka sipa, core dev team

Tips and donations: 1KwDYMJMS4xq3ZEWYfdBRwYG2fHwhZsipa
eMansipater
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 294



View Profile WWW
April 09, 2011, 09:21:56 PM
 #38

Yes and no.

Technically, you are wrong. Miners create blocks, and blocks introduce new coins to the system. Each unspent transaction output ("coin") is traceable to the blocks it descends from, and not further. At the level of the block chain, there is no pre-existing pile of coins, only a formula which determines how much new BTC each block is allowed to introduce. There is no bitcoin community involved here, except that our acceptance of the rules gives (real life) value to BTC.

However.

I like your way of looking at it. Since the formula for the value of coins sums up to a finite amount, you can identify the sum of the coinbases of all not-yet-mined blocks with a pile, and say miners of new blocks are allowed take from that pile, in a controlled way.

So, I applaud your effort to explain how the system works in a nice way, but maybe it can confuse people who are trying to understand it at the technical level.
It is a nice way to explain it, but when you get down to the ultra-technical level it's also a perfectly valid abstraction for what's happening.  The mathematical operation miners are creating does not become a coin until its acceptance by the network.  That acceptance is predicated on the priorly coded coin schedule, and thus the ultra-technical origin of coins is that schedule itself.  Some edge cases that demonstrate this are:
-generate a block with a transaction awarding yourself more bitcoins than the schedule allows, and it is never accepted--you are essentially generating it for a parallel system that contains only you, so you are not the one who "makes there to be coins" in BitCoin;
-generate a block which is a perfectly valid block, only someone else generated one just before you did, and your branch gets orphaned with no ultimate award because the bitcoins are not in your block--they are awarded by the actions of the network according to the pre-coded algorithm, so you are not the one who "makes there to be coins";
-generate a block which takes advantage of an unseen bug to give you billions of coins and get accepted into the block-chain by the code of other miners, and your coins are still not accepted as valid--instead the code is rewritten and the block chain retroactively forked to eliminate your insertion, because ultratechnically speaking even the coded version of the schedule is only an implementation of the actual community agreement that is BitCoin, so you are not the one who "makes there to be coins".

So technically technically technically technically, BitCoins are an idea in the minds of the community who accept them, a specific joint agreement that is implemented in the BitCoin software and network, and via that implementation awarded to certain miners who generate what we all deem to be valid blocks.  Chances are that if someone started processing blocks without including any transactions we would deem those blocks invalid too, for example, and take measures to implement that assessment in the code of our client software.

And as just one last nail in the coffin, the code itself does not create any such thing as a bitcoin--only the right to spend one.

tl;dr: All the ways that we normally think of software are an abstraction--yet someone who says there is no such thing as a mouse pointer is wrong, because the mouse pointer does actually exist as a defined idea in the mind of the user.  The community creates BitCoins, and we award them to certain miners.

If you found my post helpful, feel free to send a small tip to 1QGukeKbBQbXHtV6LgkQa977LJ3YHXXW8B
Visit the BitCoin Q&A Site to ask questions or share knowledge.
0.009 BTC too confusing?  Use mBTC instead!  Details at www.em-bit.org or visit the project thread to help make Bitcoin prices more human-friendly.
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!