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Author Topic: Buying BTC anonymously  (Read 428 times)
o_e_l_e_o
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December 06, 2021, 10:25:04 AM
Merited by RickDeckard (2), Symmetrick (2)
 #21

From time to time this question appears, but I have to say that I hadn't seen a solution such as yours - at least not as recent as my activity here (early this year).
Using Monero is a good choice if privacy is your goal. You can use it to effectively "mix" BTC by swapping/trading it for Monero, moving the Monero around in to a number of different addresses over as long a period of time as possible, and then swapping/trading different amounts of Monero back to BTC using a different platform to your original transaction, over as many different trades and as long a period of time as possible. There's a thread you might in interested in here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146241.0

None of that really helps OP, however, since it assume you already own BTC and does not help you acquire BTC anonymously. As with all mixing methods, you can hide the final destination of your BTC, but if you have bought on a centralized exchange, then they still know how much BTC you own.
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December 06, 2021, 10:58:27 PM
 #22

From time to time this question appears, but I have to say that I hadn't seen a solution such as yours - at least not as recent as my activity here (early this year).
Using Monero is a good choice if privacy is your goal. You can use it to effectively "mix" BTC by swapping/trading it for Monero, moving the Monero around in to a number of different addresses over as long a period of time as possible, and then swapping/trading different amounts of Monero back to BTC using a different platform to your original transaction, over as many different trades and as long a period of time as possible. There's a thread you might in interested in here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146241.0
Thank you for that thread, I wasn't aware of it (its seems like every day I find a *very* informative thread buried in the pile of activity that this forum generates, which makes me think what else could be out there). I think that the "tutorial" that was given by theymos - #2 - ends up being the method pointed out by the OP but, as we all agree, there's a big hole in OP's plot right in the beginning since he's planning on buying BTC on a centralized exchange. After that he/she can tumble his coins in any way he wants, the exchange will still know that, at some point in time, he got BTC. To expand the possibilities available I was thinking in referring this[1] service to OP since it allows payment to be done directly to a bank account, but there are still two problems:

  • He would be limited to 400 $. Greater amounts will lead to KTC procedures;
  • According to their ToS[2] the company is " (...) a registered MSB (Registration 31000069357653) and comply with various KYC/AML procedures.". Fun fact, if you click on the "MSB" word, the page will lead you to a blank page[3]

If you're really looking forward for true anonymity regarding this purchase OP, then I don't think you'll find a better solution than finding a seller that's willing to accept psychical cash in exchange for BTC (or a BTC ATM that accepts cash directly). Assuming you're from the United States you can find many sellers that accept cash either on localcryptos[4] or even localcoinswap[5]. Do realize that as the anonymity level increases, so will the fees that you'll have to pay in order to get your BTC.

[1]https://www.bitquick.co/
[2]https://www.bitquick.co/terms-of-service
[3]https://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/
[4]https://localcryptos.com/Bitcoin/United_States/Cash
[5]https://localcoinswap.com/buy/bitcoin/united-states/cash-in-person

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December 07, 2021, 09:37:32 AM
 #23

Depends on how secure you want to act. For example, the best I can suggest is to use the tails os and make sure about your privacy on your own system you can do more research about this os, then you can use the tor browser with a VPN which is only crated for yourself and you are controlling the sever and all the packets are encrypted, then you can use the tor browser and buy monero on decentralized exchanges and if you prefer to hold bitcoin you can exchange it to bitcoin on some decentralized exchange, here using mixer can increase your privacy even more.

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December 07, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
 #24

To expand the possibilities available I was thinking in referring this[1] service to OP since it allows payment to be done directly to a bank account
I've never heard of this service before. Can you vouch for it? My concern with using any service which has KYC/AML procedures at a certain price point or after certain conditions is that they can (and often do) unexpectedly expand those requirements to other users or all users with no warning. I'd rather just stick to somewhere like Bisq or LocalCryptos which has no KYC requirements ever.

Do realize that as the anonymity level increases, so will the fees that you'll have to pay in order to get your BTC.
This is certainly true to begin with, but once you have found a couple of other trustworthy individuals you are trading regularly with, then you can often negotiate better rates, which they are usually happy to offer as well once you become trusted to them. Once you factor in the astronomical withdrawal fees that many exchanges charge, you can often end up getting better rates peer to peer.

then you can use the tor browser with a VPN
Whether or not this is a good idea depends on how you set up the VPN to interact with Tor. You can completely negate all the benefits Tor brings by using an additional VPN incorrectly. If you don't know what you are doing, better to just use Tor alone.
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December 07, 2021, 11:12:14 PM
Merited by dkbit98 (5), o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #25

To expand the possibilities available I was thinking in referring this[1] service to OP since it allows payment to be done directly to a bank account
I've never heard of this service before. Can you vouch for it? My concern with using any service which has KYC/AML procedures at a certain price point or after certain conditions is that they can (and often do) unexpectedly expand those requirements to other users or all users with no warning. I'd rather just stick to somewhere like Bisq or LocalCryptos which has no KYC requirements ever.
Up until a few moments ago I couldn't vouch for it as I also hadn't heard about it before (and never used it). However, I've been digging this service for the past hours and I've found some interesting information. In their website footer[1] they have a link that states "Read about us on the BitcoinTalk Forums". This spiked my curiosity and if you click on that link you're taken to this thread[2] by user BuyBitcoin.US[3] - registered on 14th of July 2013 and last seen active around 2018. The user started the service quite early - 2013 - and with a different name - ButBitcoin.US - and he wanted to ensure that he was looking for legit deals that he even opened up a thread[4] where he would pay to reputable members - or mods - to verify his identity. He originally stated that the service was operated by 724Leads LLC but if you look up on it you'll find that the company is now dead[5]. You'll also see that the thread was edited around 7th February 2014, where I believe the name changed to the current one (bitquick.co). The service even hosted a charity event right here[6].

Gotta said, up until to 2016ish, as I was reading the thread I myself would have used the service - it seemed that the support was quick, and the system was working like it should. On March 14th 2016 they were hacked as per this quote:
Quote
BitQuick.co is still down. Please read below.

March, 17 2016 - 10:24 AM EST

When BitQuick was first founded back in August, 2013 it was founded with the intention to make Bitcoin trading safer and simpler. Through the years, we have always put customer security as our top priority. In February, 2014 we were the first US trading platform to implement proof of reserves following the Mt. Gox incident. 2015 up through now has seen incredible growth; BitQuick reached $1.5M 30 day trailing volume just last week, 15x where we were in January, 2015. This would not have been possible without our loyal and supportive customer base.

On Monday, March 14, 2016, our server fell victim to an attack that gave the attacker unauthorized administrative access. The breach was immediately noticed, and the server was shutdown to prevent any further damage. We are still performing a formal investigation to determine the attack vector, and specifically what information was obtained from the server. Due to additional security mechanisms in place, no funds were taken, and all ID’s (driver’s licenses, passports, etc.) and emails remain secured. Sellers were emailed withdrawal instructions Tuesday evening. All outstanding orders and withdrawals have been processed. Only 3% of all funds remain unclaimed. Support is still available at orders@bitquick.co.

We have always provided our customers with the highest level of security and convenience, and we will not restore service until we are 100% confident we can continue to provide the same level of service that our customers are accustomed to, and deserve. This will occur once the investigation has been completed, the attack vector has been patched, and the rest of the source code has been audited for security. We estimate that this process could take anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks. An update will be issued to all BitQuick customers once the investigation has completed, and once service is restored.

Until then, we will continue working as hard as we can to restore safe service access. We really appreciate the support from everyone, and we will be back soon.

    Jad Mubaslat & Chad Davis
Although they claimed[8]that they were up and running a few time after and no personal data nor BTC was stolen, the user never got back on the forum after some replies following the hacking. They eventually replied here[8] and here[9] - this one being the most recent - but it seems like they never got to the same high places that they were around 2013-2015... This is also shown - in a limited way - in their bittrust.org[10] profile, where reviews up until 2016 were really good but then they took a deep dive post 2016-2017 and never quite reached the same consistency that they had previously.

Somewhere between 2017 and now, it seems that the service may have been brought up by "Athena Bitcoin, Inc" - again, on their footer page[1]. Interestingly enough, this is the same company that is at least involved in producing (or perhaps licensing?) the software needed to run the "Chivo ATM" in El Salvador. A quick jump to their Twitter[11] shows that they do make the effort to show that work (you can also visit the twitter page[12] of the CEO of the company to see for yourself). The company website is also ... interesting to say the least - if you start clicking on the available options on the page footer[13] you'll find that most of them lead to a "Coming Soon" page[14], which is odd considering how well the company claims to be.

So, to answer your question, would I vouch for it? Perhaps in the 2013 I would, but at the moment, especially if I was looking for a anonymously as possible exchange, I can't really vouch for it in that regard. If we look to their Privacy Policy[15], we can highlight the following quotes that do not supply us with "anonymity":

Quote
What personal information do we collect from the people that visit our blog, website or app?

When ordering or registering on our site, as appropriate, you may be asked to enter your name, email address, phone number, ID or other details to help you with your experience.

How do we use your information?

We may use the information we collect from you when you register, make a purchase, sign up for our newsletter, respond to a survey or marketing communication, surf the website, or use certain other site features in the following ways:

• To administer a contest, promotion, survey or other site feature.
• To quickly process your transactions.
• To send periodic emails regarding your order or other products and services.

(...)

Third Party Disclosure

We do not sell, trade, or otherwise transfer to outside parties your personally identifiable information unless we provide you with advance notice. This does not include website hosting partners and other parties who assist us in operating our website, conducting our business, or servicing you, so long as those parties agree to keep this information confidential. We may also release your information when we believe release is appropriate to comply with the law, enforce our site policies, or protect ours or others' rights, property, or safety.

This is certainly true to begin with, but once you have found a couple of other trustworthy individuals you are trading regularly with, then you can often negotiate better rates, which they are usually happy to offer as well once you become trusted to them. Once you factor in the astronomical withdrawal fees that many exchanges charge, you can often end up getting better rates peer to peer.
This would be the ideal situation considering OP objective - Just find a couple of reliable sellers that are willing to accept cash (I always end up referring cash in hand because it looks the most anonymous to me) - and I'm sure that in long term they will be able to offer better rates as long as the relationship between buyer-seller flourishes. Other than that, even bank transfers will eventually giveaway some sort of information to (unknown) entities in the long term...

[1]https://www.bitquick.co/
[2]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262082.0
[3]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=140154
[4]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263246.0
[5]https://ohio-corp.com/co/724leads-llc
[6]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=305536.msg3496231#msg3496231
[7]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262082.msg14277121#msg14277121
[8]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1404934
[9]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1848552
[10]https://bittrust.org/bitquickco
[11]https://twitter.com/AthenaBitcoin
[12]https://twitter.com/EGravengaard
[13]https://athenabitcoin.com
[14]https://athenabitcoin.com/coming-soon/
[15]https://www.bitquick.co/terms-of-service

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December 08, 2021, 01:56:13 AM
 #26

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?

your steps are too complicated, if there is an exchange that is KYC and safe why are you trying to be anonymous.. what are you hiding guys?

buy on binance and store in hardware wallets like nano ledger or safepal it's safe, and no one knows about it.

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December 08, 2021, 03:08:28 AM
 #27

i think it way much simplier if you buy trough over the counter or peer 2 peer Cash only. or yes buy on bitcoin on non kyc exchange and mixing it no need transfer it to monero first using Segwit bech 32 can save u fee of bitcoin

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December 08, 2021, 09:28:14 AM
 #28

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?


For anonymity, BISQ is a good alternative, but there are other centralized alternatives you can use that accept Monero. Less slippage than BISQ, but fees might be higher than KYC-exchanges. Cool

An example, https://stealthex.io/

An idea posted by cAPSLOCK in how to do it without buying Monero, by utilizing the Lightning Network, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5348270.msg58572502#msg58572502


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December 08, 2021, 10:10:08 AM
Merited by RickDeckard (1)
 #29

-snip-
Great write up.

However, it seems that even on the announcement thread you linked to back in 2013, they already talk about requiring photo identification "at their discretion", and funds being locked on the platform if the user does not comply. This same wording is repeated under the "Buyer Terms" of their Terms of Service. The problem with wording like this is that it means users can at any time arbitrarily have their accounts locked and their funds seized, with demands being made for KYC data. If the user does not comply, then they forfeit their coins.

If you want to trade peer to peer, then I would only ever recommend doing it on a platform which does not require KYC from any of its users. If you trade on a platform which requires KYC for some of its users, then it is only a matter of time before you are included in that cohort, whether you planned to or not.
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December 08, 2021, 10:34:27 AM
 #30

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?
Honestly, this sounds too complicated to me, but maybe it's a good idea, I don't know. In my country, Bitcoin is quite popular, and there are local places where you can buy or sell BTC for fiat without providing ID or any personal information, as far as I know. If I wanted to make an anonymous purchase, I'd probably do it this way, by going to a place like this, but, of course, with a good reputation. You might want to inquire about the situation in your country, and perhaps there's a similar option there as well. Oh, and I think some BTC ATMs allow purchasing Bitcoin for fiat, and up to a certain sum you don't need to provide an ID. They might ask for other information, like as an email address or a phone number, but these might also be easy to anonymize (although I guess this also depends on your country).

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December 08, 2021, 11:07:01 AM
 #31

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?
Understand that BTC transactions are pseudo-anonymous and the TOR used will only hide your IP address. You need something more than just using TOR after withdrawing the BTC to the wallet connected with TOR and as advised by Theymos in a situation when privacy is a top priority it is better to make use of the Bitcoin tumbler site and privacy wallet.

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December 09, 2021, 10:55:07 AM
 #32

Should the community encourage each other to use the Lightning network as a "mixer" to increase Bitcoin's anon-set? I believe the more Lightning scales/grows, the more liquidity in channels, then more cheaper transactions, THEN a larger anon-set.

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December 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
 #33

Why not buy Bitcoin directly to any KYC exchange and use a mixer instead?

That would not be anonymous anymore if you will use an exchange and you comply with the KYC unless you will fake your information with some fake ID just to pass the basic requirement of an exchange. My understanding of KYC is that no matter how they will trace the address, they can't find any trace to link to a person's identity.

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December 09, 2021, 12:17:40 PM
 #34

If I wanted to accumulate some BTC anonymously and just hold it
would this work?

Buy XMR on a KYC exchange.
Withdraw it to a Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Transfer to a second Monero wallet connected by TOR or VPN
Send XMR to a non KYC exchange and buy BTC
Withdraw to BTC wallet connected by TOR

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?

If we talk about buying BTC anonymously and storing it, then you probably need to start from the very beginning, namely for what funds are you going to buy BTC? If we take into account your scheme of actions, then it is unlikely that it will be 100% anonymous, which, in principle, applies to any schemes. If someone wants to track the movement of funds for the purchase of BTC, then probably even with great effort he will be able to do it, the other question is, why do this? Why would anyone know that you bought BTC and are holding it? All this hype around anonymity, you just need to give BTC and other cryptocurrencies value, but I do not think that the system or the tax system monitors your funds, in any case, until your amount becomes too large, then they will probably be interested and, if they want to, can find out whose funds it is. I don’t think that in our time there are 100% completely anonymous systems, and if they exist, then only at the level of security and intelligence services, but not in the financial system.
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December 10, 2021, 12:11:28 AM
 #35

honestly i dont know why you need to buy bitcoin anonymously? i think there are many service on the internet that makes your transaction (the owner) of bitcoin are vanish, just use it, beside you use your method that has many step to do it, and i read in the post section, some people suggest you to buy it on localcryptos.com, i think it can be the better alternative than your methods

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December 11, 2021, 04:49:09 AM
 #36

Why not buy Bitcoin directly to any KYC exchange and use a mixer instead?

That would not be anonymous anymore if you will use an exchange and you comply with the KYC unless you will fake your information with some fake ID just to pass the basic requirement of an exchange. My understanding of KYC is that no matter how they will trace the address, they can't find any trace to link to a person's identity.


Those UTXOs will be anonymous, but the problem is, if you want to deposit back to exchanges or to services that monitors the mixers, they would know that your UTXOs went through a mixer. I believe there should be another layer added on top of the mixer.

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December 11, 2021, 05:19:21 PM
 #37

Any corrections, suggestions, or better ideas?
How about buying some unpeeled collectible coins here on the forum?

Many sellers accept payment not only in BTC, so you will not have any problems with payment. Well, this option is only suitable for long-term purposes, because if you plan to purchase some bitcoins and spend them six months later, it is better to use a mixer. But if you are still patient, and in your country someday Bitcoin will become a legal tender, then you can easily add the purchased coins to the electronic tax return in the future (if you are one of those who pay taxes).

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December 11, 2021, 05:34:37 PM
 #38

How about buying some unpeeled collectible coins here on the forum?
That seems inferior to many of the options discussed above if anonymity is your aim, since you are going to have to hand over a shipping address to the seller. You could of course ship to a PO Box or similar without your name attached, but if you don't already have one of those then there is an additional cost as well as time and effort required to set one up, and it might be impossible to ship to an anonymous PO Box internationally. Most of these coins also sell for higher than the value of the bitcoin contained within, so again, you'll be paying an additional cost.
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December 11, 2021, 05:39:06 PM
 #39

Local bitcoins would be your best way to buy directly from a seller paying whit cash and whit out traces.

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December 11, 2021, 05:47:00 PM
 #40

[...]
If you are ultimately pursuing the goal of making your bitcoin savings legitimate, then you will have to sacrifice something, (after all, you need anonymity so that you are not pursued by the law at the moment, right?) In the end, each of us gives the examples that he projects onto himself.  Tongue

In addition, you yourself know that there are trusted persons on the forum who earn money by acting as intermediaries, and after a year or more no one will remember your name because thousands of parcels pass through the hands of such people.

Last but not least ... if you are patient enough, you can easily buy an uncleaned coin with little or no additional surcharge.

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