U.S. Contemplating Isolating Russia from SWIFT Banking System

[titular]

If you keep up with world news, you know there are some serious tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

Russia has shown several acts of aggression towards the people of Ukraine. Most notably the cyberattacks on Ukraine's power grid. Many think this was just a "practice run" aimed at perfecting these kinds of attacks for when they want to do some real damage.

In response to Russia's more recent actions, the United States proposed cutting Russia off from the SWIFT banking system should they mount any type of invasion on Ukraine. This would be detrimental to Russian businesses and consumers alike.

Assuming Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine, there isn't really much to talk about. But what happens if they do?

Would it be political suicide? Would they develop their own banking/payment system? Would they look to an open-source monetary network?

I can't see Russia putting itself in a position to collapse its own economy. However, I also can't see Russia not harassing Ukraine.

Would our decentralized ledger be able to aid Russia in the event they are unable to use SWIFT?

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[jackg]

Apparently Russia is a net exporter of agricultural food (from a few random Internet sources, not sure on how accurate they are).

At minimum a country's population needs: food, water, shelter, education and human relationships - Russia should be able to provide all of these for itself and manage quite well at it.

Also Russia is one of the largest producers of oil in the world, why wouldn't they use something backed by oil as a currency internationally (or something that can stably be made with oil that doesn't have as large a price fluctuation).

I think Russia, like China, went imperialist though recently which might be something that could cause issues for a lot of other countries - imperialism may be more efficient than capitalism and socialism under certain circumstances.

[paxmao]

This forms part of the pack of threats currently being considered by US and NATO due to the massive concentration of troops on the Ukraine border as you say. The geopolitical problem here is complex. Rusia is quite used to consider Ukraine as a possession and a critical one if you consider food supply. Europe is as usual trying to increase its influence on this country as a measure to contain Rusia and prefereably keep it away from sensible European borders.

The problem is that Rusia may just be too big for these type of sanctions - they only work well on small economies... or perhaps never work well.

[Ozero]

The main reason not for tension, but for the hybrid war between Ukraine and Russia, is that Ukraine has chosen a course of joining the European Union and NATO. The Putin regime regarded this as a threat to its borders from the expanding NATO, and in 2014, using the fact that at that time there were many supporters of Russia and spies of its special services on the territory of Ukraine and in the higher structures of power, it occupied the Ukrainian peninsula of Crimea and part of western territories of Donbass. A significant role in Russia's success was played by the fact that in 2014 Ukraine did not actually have its own army, and the Ukrainians were psychologically not ready to shoot their Russian brothers.

By this year, the situation has changed a lot and Ukraine has become stronger. Seeing that they were failing to intimidate Ukraine, the Putin regime, which by that time had killed about 15,000 Ukrainians on their own territory, began to blackmail Europe and the whole world with a war, so that they themselves could influence the position of Ukraine with its foreign policy.
Now the situation has escalated to the limit and threatens to turn into open war. Therefore, the United States is considering the possibility of disconnecting Russia from the SWIFT global banking system, among other economic sanctions. Russia, foresaw this, and previously took certain steps for an alternative to this international system. However, such a shutdown will all the same give serious economic damage to the Russian economy.

[cabron]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. Russia isn't afraid of that anymore. No sanctions can make them back out from US.

Apparently, you got the news from a media that simply is producing news in favor of Ukraine and US. You got it all wrong. There is no invasion there nor hacking, the US just needs a bogeyman to start a war for their failing Empire which thier money comes from wars that always fail. If it isn't the weak Biden that is their president today, things like this wouldn't be happening, US should replace that guy. Otherwise, they will continue to fail even when they lure Ukraine to join NATO that isn't allowed in the treaty they have signed.

[Rruchi man]

Since Ukraine is a break out from Russia and after being so long under their control and influence for a while, Russia must feel threatened by this further move to become more independent and free from their influence by seeking an inclusion and alliance with the strongest military alliance in the world - NATO. An alliance by Ukraine with NATO, will mean that an external military under strong influence of the United States has edged closer to Moscow, this is a big threat to Russia. if you have been following up on the news, you will hear that in the past days, Russia has significantly increased the number of troops on the border of Ukraine, am indication of maybe an invasion, the planned isolation of Russia from the SWIFT banking system may just be a tool to keep Russia in check until the tension and issues can be properly discussed. Putin now wants NATO not to expand its operations to Ukraine .

[DrBeer]

As a resident of Ukraine, I will explain the situation. The start of this process began in 2014, when mass demonstrations began in Ukraine against the rotten power of President V. Yanukovych. Reason: in 2013-2014, the key goals of the country for the nearest period were agreed and spelled out, namely the European vector, integration into the economic and political processes of Europe and Western ideas and values. The key idea was to avoid any binding and imposed alliances with Russia. For some reason, Russia believes that all neighboring countries are OBLIGED to enter into an alliance with it, to become a supplier of cheap resources and a buyer of its low-quality products. Alliances with the Russian Federation have never been mutually beneficial. Well, many decades of occupation, and the mass destruction of Ukrainian citizens by Russia / USSR also influenced the choice of Ukrainians. But without the resources and potential of Ukraine, Russia is very uncomfortable. And the worst thing for Russia is an example of the fact that a country from its inner circle can show an example of how you can drive out a president a thief and a criminal, and start free changes to improve life! By the way - at the moment, despite the fact that both direct hostilities from Russia and terrorist actions are taking place against Ukraine, the level of the Ukrainian economy is growing, and in 2021, the minimum income level exceeded the same level in Russia, the richest country world
And the tales about Putin worrying about the security of Russia are a bluff for his sheep At the same time, he himself constantly, and all propaganda channels, tell how powerless NATO is, backward, lazy and cowardly, and a huge number of super-weapons have been invented in Russia, which will destroy in seconds any enemy, his missiles, tanks, ships, aircraft. You cannot imagine how much money Russia is investing in propaganda channels that carry these crazy tales to the masses!
Well, to the main topic - if Russia manages to capture Ukraine, although we will definitely resist this, Russia will not stop there. They openly declare that they want to create a new empire, and forcibly annex ALL the territories that were in the USSR - that is, ... return back to Ukraine, Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, punish Poland for its desire to live well, establish its own rules for Europe, monopolize the gas market in the EU. Do not be lazy - listen / read state official propaganda channels such as RT, ORT and the like, you will hear a lot of interesting things both about yourself and about the whole world, where "kind and decent Russia" is, and the rest of the world is angry with her
Therefore, sanctions, including disconnection from SWIFT, are a deterrent mechanism to prevent the spread of RASHISM (Russian fascism) around the world.

[cabron]

~

What you are saying is that Putin is lying in the media channels saying Russia doesn't want war.  Like this video?

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action. It has to stop to avoid conflict otherwise another country will fail. The US will be there for war not building a nation just as how Biden said in Afghanistan.

[lovesmayfamilis]

You're right. President Putin has been declaring everywhere that he does NOT want war. But Ukraine stubbornly proves to everyone that Russia regularly attacks it. Russia does not know that it is at war with Ukraine. It seems that Ukraine, which has depended on Russia all its life, wanted to change its owner, but it is very funny to observe that other owners do not need it, but only to become a bargaining chip for unleashing war and new sanctions
The topic is shifting to the policy section

[fillippone]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own.

Which system are you talking about? I genuinely ignore that one.
The real problem is that they might have an alternative, proprietary system alternative to SWIFT, but those systems are useful if and only if they are globally well connected between every banking system participant. If the alternative system is used only by Russian Banks, then it will be pretty useless!

[Mauser]

I can't see Russia putting itself in a position to collapse its own economy. However, I also can't see Russia not harassing Ukraine.

Would our decentralized ledger be able to aid Russia in the event they are unable to use SWIFT?

I agree with you that Russia is not going to back down with their pressure towards Ukraine. It all comes down that Putin wants to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. If Ukraine is going to join than the conflict could escalate quickly. All the sanctions from the West don't seem to have much effect on Russia. The economy is important for Putin, but with rising energy prices Russia should profit from it.
Removing Russia from the SWIFT system is a bad idea in my opinion. We should try and find ways to settle for a compromise instead of escalating it more. Crypto currencies and decentralised ledgers could help Russia to get around all these problems. Isolating Russia more is not a good thing, it will just drive them closer to China.

[Fortify]

If you keep up with world news, you know there are some serious tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

Russia has shown several acts of aggression towards the people of Ukraine. Most notably the cyberattacks on Ukraine's power grid. Many think this was just a "practice run" aimed at perfecting these kinds of attacks for when they want to do some real damage.

In response to Russia's more recent actions, the United States proposed cutting Russia off from the SWIFT banking system should they mount any type of invasion on Ukraine. This would be detrimental to Russian businesses and consumers alike.

Assuming Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine, there isn't really much to talk about. But what happens if they do?

Would it be political suicide? Would they develop their own banking/payment system? Would they look to an open-source monetary network?

I can't see Russia putting itself in a position to collapse its own economy. However, I also can't see Russia not harassing Ukraine.

Would our decentralized ledger be able to aid Russia in the event they are unable to use SWIFT?

It seems like Putin is on the war path and this might be the only thing that could disrupt his plans short term. He has given an unacceptable list of demands which is, as usual, trying to impose Russia's will on independent countries that are free to decide their own future. Maybe if the Russian leadership were not constantly trying to bully everyone and the whole country was not mired in corruption of the political elite then it might have a more rounded economy. Every step he takes is for his own selfish gains and the average Russian loses out as it becomes more disconnected from the world. Let's hope the threat of financial isolation is enough to stop this warmonger of a leader, because the Russians and Ukrainians could easily be friends by choice without such aggression. Putin and Xi Jinping are truly leading the world into WW3, when will people ever learn. Bitcoin is really insignificant as a payment model for a country of that size and if that became a workaround it would be banned by EU/USA in response - thereby wiping out huge amounts of money stored in it, so be careful what you wish for.

[stompix]

At minimum a country's population needs: food, water, shelter, education and human relationships - Russia should be able to provide all of these for itself and manage quite well at it.

Yeah, in theory, in practice....it has failed to do so two times already in the past half-century.
Russia might export more food than it imports but the is in the process of managing on doing so, because you see, when you exports 8 billion of what but you import 4 billion of tractors and agricultural machinery you have a serious problem longterm.
You can check their imports, everything that is needed to run a country at a basic level is imported, from computer parts to machinery, medicine even paper, they export tons of raw iron and aluminum and import the finished goods.

Basically, all the cars in Russia are made by foreigners, even Lada is owned now by Renault, look for example at their new civilian plane:

Key suppliers were selected in October 2003, including Thales for avionics, Messier-Bugatti-Dowty for landing gear, Honeywell for the auxiliary power unit, Liebherr for flight controls, Intertechnique for fuel systems, Parker Hannifin for hydraulic systems, B/E Aerospace for interiors.[8]

If you want to run a country on bread and water, yes you can, but don't wonder in a decade or two if it's nothing left there.

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. Russia isn't afraid of that anymore.

Russia was never cut from SWIFT, do your research before posting stuff like this.
And developing your own system means *** if the others won't want to use it.
It's like threatening AT&T that a new ISP based in Norilsk would take all their customers.

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action.

So what, Ukraine shouldn't be allowed to join whatever organization it wants because Russia is not agreeing on it? I love it when it comes to politics everyone forgets where they are, on bitcointalk and why they are here, and start about dictating to others what to do!
I just love this stuff, so a country next to Russia should not be allowed to arm itself or join an organization because .....reasons!

[kryptqnick]

I've just looked through poll results in Ukraine, and almost half a population (it's a representative sociological poll) believes that the Russian military threat is very real.
I'd also say that the most notable acts of aggression of Russia are probably taking Crimea and supporting the military intervention in the Eastern part of the country, rather than cyberattacks, but ok.
Restricting SWIFT is probably the best economic sanction there can be because Russia depends quite heavily on it, and this will not play well with many influential people as well as the Russian middle-class people, so to speak. If they do invade, I think they'll try to move to an alternative system, and since Russia's big on some products for export, other countries will probably play along and adopt that system for deals with Russia specifically. Also, isn't SWIFT only for international transfers, so all payments inside the country won't be affected? So, while it's big in terms of sanctions, it's probably not devastating for Russia.
As for the war threat, I really hope it wears off or, if it doesn't, that the West won't make the same mistake they made with Hitler, assuming he'd just stop after annexing this or that territory.

[Lucius]

I see this whole situation as a war between the West and the East in which on the one hand we have the US + UK and all their vassals, and on the other hand the eternal enemies of the West led by Russia, China, Iran and some smaller countries that favor them. However, I do not believe that there can be a real war between these alliances, because the balance of power is such that no one could expect victory - and the costs of such a war would be huge, at a time when the world is suffering from the economic consequences of a pandemic.

In the end, it all comes down to how much money you will invest, and what you can get out of it all - for the US and more than certainly, war is not an option, because as Putin said at his big press conference a few days ago, it is impossible to defeat Russia by military means, but only by some kind of internal political war.

Ukraine has unfortunately found itself between the interests of the West and the East, and Putin has been more than clear that he will not allow NATO expansion to the east - while the West has made it clear that it will not act militarily in the event of an attack. The point is more than clear, Russia can conquer all of Ukraine and most of Europe before Western gentlemen agree on whether NATO should act or not. Like it or not, the EU relies heavily on US help, and the question is whether Americans will die again, as was the case in WW2.

Economic sanctions are something that Russia can live with, especially with the help of China and Iran and some other countries. This is not their first or last time in such a situation.

[el kaka22]

I would say that this would create another economical warfare between the two. We also saw USA dealing with Saudi Arabia before getting the price of oil to drop a lot, and I mean A LOT and used it as a weapon against Russia which is known to make a lot of money from oil, gas and many other energy stuff. So all in all I have to say that there is a good case to be made to show that USA is once again trying to lower the power of Russia.

I have to say USA shouldn't worry about Russia anymore, they are still a big nation but they are not enemies of USA all that much if you ask me. I would assume that China is a lot bigger in that sense, we are talking about china becoming world's biggest country, something regarding them would be a lot better for the future of USA.

[Sithara007]

Russia is the second top largest exporter of crude oil and the top exporter of natural gas. Given this, I think isolating Russia will do more harm to the SWIF system compared to Russia itself. Russian exports of natural gas and oil are mostly directed towards Europe (with an increasing share flowing nowadays to East Asia). The European countries are dependent on Russia for natural gas and petroleum (their own fields are in perpetual decline). If the SWIFT payment system doesn't work, then Russian exports will be directed to Asia and Europeans will be forced to cut down on their consumption of these commodities (Qatar, US.etc doesn't have enough capacity to replace a large portion of the Russian exports).

[DrBeer]

~

What you are saying is that Putin is lying in the media channels saying Russia doesn't want war.  Like this video?

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action. It has to stop to avoid conflict otherwise another country will fail. The US will be there for war not building a nation just as how Biden said in Afghanistan.

Well, let's go back to reality and look at this problem in chronological order? In 2014, Ukrainians only wanted to choose a pro-European vector of development. No NATO, no missiles, nothing. But Russia just took the annexed Crimea and partly captured the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. What rockets? What is the threat?
The only threat to Russia is if, next to one of the republics from the former USSR, it suddenly starts to live well and with high quality !!! This will be the end of Russia itself, since the population of this so-called "great country" has lived all their lives as residents of a third world country. And if they suddenly realize that even a country like Ukraine, which does not have "the natural resources of the whole world" like Russia, can prosper, it will simply destroy this power of thieves and criminals. No, Putin is not afraid of missiles, not of missiles ...

You're right. President Putin has been declaring everywhere that he does NOT want war. But Ukraine stubbornly proves to everyone that Russia regularly attacks it. Russia does not know that it is at war with Ukraine. It seems that Ukraine, which has depended on Russia all its life, wanted to change its owner, but it is very funny to observe that other owners do not need it, but only to become a bargaining chip for unleashing war and new sanctions
The topic is shifting to the policy section

A great example of a victim of Russian propaganda )))
The person KNOWS that Russia with the ARMED forces occupied and annexed the Crimea at the Krajina. KNOWS that in the east of Ukraine there are several thousand regular military men who lead local separatists and terrorists. Photo, video, testimony of captured regular army soldiers. But in his "reality" - no, there is no war, moreover, Ukraine is going to attack Russia!

Regarding the fairy tale about "Ukraine's dependence on Russia" - I will answer very simply - after the economic relations were curtailed. Russia, on which Ukraine allegedly depends, has suffered greatly from the fact that ... it depends on Ukraine, Ukrainian technologies Gas turbine engines for new warships - guess who supplied them to Russia? The aviation industry - "great Russia" suddenly lost the ability to serve the fleet of aircraft of the "AN" brand. Can you tell me why? Do you know why Russia, in times of crisis, has to burn excess gas on a global scale? And because Russia does not have the necessary volumes for storing gas, all the largest storage facilities are Ukrainian, and they were used and is being used by "the great Russia on which Ukraine depends" I can continue to give other examples that refute this lie, but it will take a very long time. But, a victim of propaganda, he will not be able to give an example so that some industries that allegedly "depended" on Russia collapse in Ukraine!

[Ozero]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. Russia isn't afraid of that anymore. No sanctions can make them back out from US.

Apparently, you got the news from a media that simply is producing news in favor of Ukraine and US. You got it all wrong. There is no invasion there nor hacking, the US just needs a bogeyman to start a war for their failing Empire which thier money comes from wars that always fail. If it isn't the weak Biden that is their president today, things like this wouldn't be happening, US should replace that guy. Otherwise, they will continue to fail even when they lure Ukraine to join NATO that isn't allowed in the treaty they have signed.

Neither Ukraine nor the United States have ever signed any agreements on Ukraine's commitment not to join NATO or not to accept Ukraine into NATO. But Russia signed the Budapesh Treaty with Ukraine's voluntary renunciation of its nuclear weapons and pledged to respect Ukraine's borders and sovereignty. And just a few years later, it perfidiously violated this treaty by introducing its troops into the territory of Ukraine, including using the fact that Ukraine, brotherly, allowed the Russian armed forces to rent bays on the territory of Ukraine in the Sevastopol region for anchorage of warships and nearby training grounds from all over the necessary infrastructure for this. Therefore, in order to capture the Crimean peninsula, the Russian military had enough to withdraw its troops and equipment previously concentrated there from these leased territories. For this, it was not even necessary to cross the border of Ukraine. Russia used the hospitality and good neighborly relations with Ukraine to suddenly attack it.
Therefore, the introduction of economic sanctions against Russia, including its disconnection from the international SWIFT system, is necessary and advisable, despite the false statements of the Putin regime that no sanctions will harm it.

[fullhdpixel]

Removing Russia from the SWIFT system is a bad idea in my opinion. We should try and find ways to settle for a compromise instead of escalating it more. Crypto currencies and decentralised ledgers could help Russia to get around all these problems. Isolating Russia more is not a good thing, it will just drive them closer to China.

This is where crypto shows how great it can be. USA has the power to take out Russia from a whole banking system, I don't know if they will do it or not but it just shows you that how centralized power causes a lot of issues. With crypto there is no USA that can stop you, if you want to send money from one wallet to another wallet you are free to do that.

So instead of using SWIFT and give people some regulations, if USA bans Russia then Russians could simply send crypto to people in USA which people in USA could deposit into Coinbase and withdraw to their bank account anyway. It could be a bit more expensive or not, depending on the amount, but it would certainly be a lot more freely done so without government getting in your business.

[timerland]

I wonder whether this will lead to greater adoption of blockchain technology and CBDCs sooner within Russia.

Given that they already had CBDCs in development, this should speed up the rollout of these technologies for sure.

I don't think that this ban would actually happen though. There would be too many businesses in Russia exporting to the U.S. affected for it to be worthwhile.

[cabron]

~

What you are saying is that Putin is lying in the media channels saying Russia doesn't want war.  Like this video?

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action. It has to stop to avoid conflict otherwise another country will fail. The US will be there for war not building a nation just as how Biden said in Afghanistan.

Well, let's go back to reality and look at this problem in chronological order? In 2014, Ukrainians only wanted to choose a pro-European vector of development. No NATO, no missiles, nothing. But Russia just took the annexed Crimea and partly captured the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. What rockets? What is the threat?
The only threat to Russia is if, next to one of the republics from the former USSR, it suddenly starts to live well and with high quality !!! This will be the end of Russia itself, since the population of this so-called "great country" has lived all their lives as residents of a third world country. And if they suddenly realize that even a country like Ukraine, which does not have "the natural resources of the whole world" like Russia, can prosper, it will simply destroy this power of thieves and criminals. No, Putin is not afraid of missiles, not of missiles ...

Didn't Ukraine president Yanukovych have a negotiation between them that the port of Crimea is now controlled by Russia which up to 2042?
After some militants in those areas and minorities including the Russian-speaking Ukrainians there that turned that region into a war zone which is why Russian steps in to make it peaceful.

If Ukraine wants to turn that region into a bigger warzone like your whole country, be a member of NATO and you will see what's left for the country. It's never worth bringing a 3rd party that will take everything instead because after all both country was part of the USSR and your NAVY shares that Crimea sea.

[Ozero]

~

What you are saying is that Putin is lying in the media channels saying Russia doesn't want war.  Like this video?

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action. It has to stop to avoid conflict otherwise another country will fail. The US will be there for war not building a nation just as how Biden said in Afghanistan.

Well, let's go back to reality and look at this problem in chronological order? In 2014, Ukrainians only wanted to choose a pro-European vector of development. No NATO, no missiles, nothing. But Russia just took the annexed Crimea and partly captured the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. What rockets? What is the threat?
The only threat to Russia is if, next to one of the republics from the former USSR, it suddenly starts to live well and with high quality !!! This will be the end of Russia itself, since the population of this so-called "great country" has lived all their lives as residents of a third world country. And if they suddenly realize that even a country like Ukraine, which does not have "the natural resources of the whole world" like Russia, can prosper, it will simply destroy this power of thieves and criminals. No, Putin is not afraid of missiles, not of missiles ...

Didn't Ukraine president Yanukovych have a negotiation between them that the port of Crimea is now controlled by Russia which up to 2042?
After some militants in those areas and minorities including the Russian-speaking Ukrainians there that turned that region into a war zone which is why Russian steps in to make it peaceful.

If Ukraine wants to turn that region into a bigger warzone like your whole country, be a member of NATO and you will see what's left for the country. It's never worth bringing a 3rd party that will take everything instead because after all both country was part of the USSR and your NAVY shares that Crimea sea.

Under President Yanukovych, the lease agreement was only extended to the Russians until the specified year of the base of their Black Sea fleet near Sevastopol. Crimea is a very large peninsula and it was under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.
Before the invasion of Russian troops into Crimea and its occupation by Russia, the inhabitants of Crimea lived there absolutely peacefully. What action movies are you talking about? You completely distort reality. Even after the capture of Crimea by Russia, a relatively peaceful life continues to this day, but the Russian authorities are engaged in the forced russification of the peninsula, oppressing and repressing the indigenous people, the Crimean Tatars, and resettling millions of Russians there.
Now the occupied Crimea peninsula is being turned by Russia into a military base with nuclear weapons.

[Hydrogen]

Russia has been threatened with being disconnected from SWIFT for many years. Even before economic sanctions were imposed. As a result russia has spent many years preparing for SWIFT disconnection.

Recently russia has taken steps to isolate its internet connectivity from the rest of the world. They filed lawsuits against twitter claiming it supports immoral content as a justification for blocking russians from using it. Russia appears to be cutting itself off from the rest of the world, under a policy of isolationism. Disconnection from SWIFT would merely be the latest in a long series of steps which russia has taken in this direction.

As far as I know, russia is similar to north korea in that it does not cooperate with international law enforcement in capturing or extraditing cyber criminals. If that is true, then russia being limited from communicating with certain outside networks could help to reduce internet based crime. Although, if russia's approach resembles the great firewall of china, perhaps these measures will be soft enough to be breached by VPNs and other well publicized methods.

[mindrust]

The US is digging its own grave with these moves. Soon there will be more countries that don't use SWIFT than that use it. Then those countries will have to agree on some other system. I am not sure if it is going to be based on crypto though. They will probably choose gold but I can't be really sure. Of course that is if, the US keeps banning other countries. Right now the situation isn't that bad but banning Russia would speed up the process a lot.

[hatshepsut93]

Soon there will be more countries that don't use SWIFT than that use it.

Not true, there's actually very little countries that don't have banks that are connected to SWIFT, like North Korea. Even some Iranian banks are still connected to SWIFT. And majority of the world doesn't care if someone gets sanctioned as long as it doesn't affect their own economy.

Russia has shown several acts of aggression towards the people of Ukraine. Most notably the cyberattacks on Ukraine's power grid. Many think this was just a "practice run" aimed at perfecting these kinds of attacks for when they want to do some real damage.

In response to Russia's more recent actions, the United States proposed cutting Russia off from the SWIFT banking system should they mount any type of invasion on Ukraine. This would be detrimental to Russian businesses and consumers alike.

This is incorrect. Russia is waging a hybrid war on Ukraine since 2014, and they continue sending their weapons, supplies and personnel to fuel conflict in two regions of Eastern Ukraine. So some cyber attacks are really just a tip of the iceberg.

Second, the US is proposing to disconnect Russia from SWIFT in case it launches full scale invasion against Ukraine. This has been brought up because Russia is currently building up troops near Ukrainian borders. The US is not going to do it because of some "recent actions".

[sana54210]

Under President Yanukovych, the lease agreement was only extended to the Russians until the specified year of the base of their Black Sea fleet near Sevastopol. Crimea is a very large peninsula and it was under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.
Before the invasion of Russian troops into Crimea and its occupation by Russia, the inhabitants of Crimea lived there absolutely peacefully. What action movies are you talking about? You completely distort reality. Even after the capture of Crimea by Russia, a relatively peaceful life continues to this day, but the Russian authorities are engaged in the forced russification of the peninsula, oppressing and repressing the indigenous people, the Crimean Tatars, and resettling millions of Russians there.
Now the occupied Crimea peninsula is being turned by Russia into a military base with nuclear weapons.

There will ALWAYS be people who will support Russia, it could be Russians, it could be people from old soviet lands that are not Russia, it could be leftists from other nations who want to support Russia against USA, and many other types.

The reality is that if you read what happened, you will see what the reality is, do not be kidding yourself thinking that you are the one who see the whole truth in everything neither because you and I know that Russia is the cause of all the trouble there, but we do not know what happened in some other nation, we do not have enough knowledge about every single thing all around the world. So even though we are right about this and cabron is very wrong, we are probably as wrong about something else as him.

[DrBeer]

I see this whole situation as a war between the West and the East in which on the one hand we have the US + UK and all their vassals, and on the other hand the eternal enemies of the West led by Russia, China, Iran and some smaller countries that favor them. However, I do not believe that there can be a real war between these alliances, because the balance of power is such that no one could expect victory - and the costs of such a war would be huge, at a time when the world is suffering from the economic consequences of a pandemic.

In the end, it all comes down to how much money you will invest, and what you can get out of it all - for the US and more than certainly, war is not an option, because as Putin said at his big press conference a few days ago, it is impossible to defeat Russia by military means, but only by some kind of internal political war.

Ukraine has unfortunately found itself between the interests of the West and the East, and Putin has been more than clear that he will not allow NATO expansion to the east - while the West has made it clear that it will not act militarily in the event of an attack. The point is more than clear, Russia can conquer all of Ukraine and most of Europe before Western gentlemen agree on whether NATO should act or not. Like it or not, the EU relies heavily on US help, and the question is whether Americans will die again, as was the case in WW2.

Economic sanctions are something that Russia can live with, especially with the help of China and Iran and some other countries. This is not their first or last time in such a situation.

I agree. This is not the first time. The first time it was with the USSR, after he sent troops to Afghanistan. Then, for the first time, sanctions were introduced against the USSR. In 1979 it began. In 1991, the USSR collapsed like a house of cards. The reason is the complete degradation of the resource, technologically backward, economy. Neither the largest army, nor nuclear weapons, nor the largest army of tanks - nothing came in handy or saved. The picture is completely identical now. Russia in 2014 - the introduction of troops into Ukraine. Sanctions are introduced. The economy begins to collapse, the budget tends to zero, and tension grows inside. The picture is identical. It will not be long. Most likely, Russia will start a new wave of hostilities against Ukraine. This will be the answer to the West - "since you do not accept our ultimatums, now, we will screw up right here!" But this will be the last war unleashed by Russia, because. this will catalyze its collapse.

[cabron]

~

What you are saying is that Putin is lying in the media channels saying Russia doesn't want war.  Like this video?

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action. It has to stop to avoid conflict otherwise another country will fail. The US will be there for war not building a nation just as how Biden said in Afghanistan.

Well, let's go back to reality and look at this problem in chronological order? In 2014, Ukrainians only wanted to choose a pro-European vector of development. No NATO, no missiles, nothing. But Russia just took the annexed Crimea and partly captured the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. What rockets? What is the threat?
The only threat to Russia is if, next to one of the republics from the former USSR, it suddenly starts to live well and with high quality !!! This will be the end of Russia itself, since the population of this so-called "great country" has lived all their lives as residents of a third world country. And if they suddenly realize that even a country like Ukraine, which does not have "the natural resources of the whole world" like Russia, can prosper, it will simply destroy this power of thieves and criminals. No, Putin is not afraid of missiles, not of missiles ...

Didn't Ukraine president Yanukovych have a negotiation between them that the port of Crimea is now controlled by Russia which up to 2042?
After some militants in those areas and minorities including the Russian-speaking Ukrainians there that turned that region into a war zone which is why Russian steps in to make it peaceful.

If Ukraine wants to turn that region into a bigger warzone like your whole country, be a member of NATO and you will see what's left for the country. It's never worth bringing a 3rd party that will take everything instead because after all both country was part of the USSR and your NAVY shares that Crimea sea.

Under President Yanukovych, the lease agreement was only extended to the Russians until the specified year of the base of their Black Sea fleet near Sevastopol. Crimea is a very large peninsula and it was under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.
Before the invasion of Russian troops into Crimea and its occupation by Russia, the inhabitants of Crimea lived there absolutely peacefully. What action movies are you talking about? You completely distort reality. Even after the capture of Crimea by Russia, a relatively peaceful life continues to this day, but the Russian authorities are engaged in the forced russification of the peninsula, oppressing and repressing the indigenous people, the Crimean Tatars, and resettling millions of Russians there.
Now the occupied Crimea peninsula is being turned by Russia into a military base with nuclear weapons.

I may have learned the news from somewhere which both parties have their own version of the story. Ukraine has its own, Russia has its own, and even the spectator medias who are just watching them will assume things are done under the table. History is more than what we see and hear but the more important thing is preventing the destruction because once a shot is fired there is no turning back and so much at stake for Ukraine. The country will be crushed between the two powerful militias.

[Argoo]

~

What you are saying is that Putin is lying in the media channels saying Russia doesn't want war.  Like this video?

If Ukraine will allow the US to set up a military base in Ukraine near the borders of Russia which is likely possible, this will lead to a real war. It's your country that will be ruined with such kind of action. It has to stop to avoid conflict otherwise another country will fail. The US will be there for war not building a nation just as how Biden said in Afghanistan.

Well, let's go back to reality and look at this problem in chronological order? In 2014, Ukrainians only wanted to choose a pro-European vector of development. No NATO, no missiles, nothing. But Russia just took the annexed Crimea and partly captured the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. What rockets? What is the threat?
The only threat to Russia is if, next to one of the republics from the former USSR, it suddenly starts to live well and with high quality !!! This will be the end of Russia itself, since the population of this so-called "great country" has lived all their lives as residents of a third world country. And if they suddenly realize that even a country like Ukraine, which does not have "the natural resources of the whole world" like Russia, can prosper, it will simply destroy this power of thieves and criminals. No, Putin is not afraid of missiles, not of missiles ...

Didn't Ukraine president Yanukovych have a negotiation between them that the port of Crimea is now controlled by Russia which up to 2042?
After some militants in those areas and minorities including the Russian-speaking Ukrainians there that turned that region into a war zone which is why Russian steps in to make it peaceful.

If Ukraine wants to turn that region into a bigger warzone like your whole country, be a member of NATO and you will see what's left for the country. It's never worth bringing a 3rd party that will take everything instead because after all both country was part of the USSR and your NAVY shares that Crimea sea.

Under President Yanukovych, the lease agreement was only extended to the Russians until the specified year of the base of their Black Sea fleet near Sevastopol. Crimea is a very large peninsula and it was under the jurisdiction of Ukraine.
Before the invasion of Russian troops into Crimea and its occupation by Russia, the inhabitants of Crimea lived there absolutely peacefully. What action movies are you talking about? You completely distort reality. Even after the capture of Crimea by Russia, a relatively peaceful life continues to this day, but the Russian authorities are engaged in the forced russification of the peninsula, oppressing and repressing the indigenous people, the Crimean Tatars, and resettling millions of Russians there.
Now the occupied Crimea peninsula is being turned by Russia into a military base with nuclear weapons.

I may have learned the news from somewhere which both parties have their own version of the story. Ukraine has its own, Russia has its own, and even the spectator medias who are just watching them will assume things are done under the table. History is more than what we see and hear but the more important thing is preventing the destruction because once a shot is fired there is no turning back and so much at stake for Ukraine. The country will be crushed between the two powerful militias.

What versions from different sides can we talk about in the current situation? Ukraine did not attack Russia and did not seize its territory. It was Russia that attacked Ukraine and occupied its Crimean peninsula and part of the eastern territories adjacent to Russia. Putin's justification for these actions is that he does not want Ukraine to join the European Union and NATO. Is this a serious excuse for capturing a neighboring state and killing thousands of Ukrainians in the 21st century? Any independent state has the right to choose its own path of development and build its foreign policy, including deciding which political sides to join in order to ensure its security.
Putin behaves like a robber and a bandit on the world stage, and therefore the world community must unite and give him a good rebuff, and disconnecting Russia from the SWIFT international banking system is still a rather mild measure.

[goldkingcoiner]

The only real problem happening right now which is causing these tensions is America running out of money and they now need to start a war somewhere, with someone. Or at least make people believe there will be a war so that they can more easily sell weapons. Russia is not a fool and knows this. Thats why Russia is not reacting the way that America hoped they would.

Even if in Russia SWIFT Banking is isolated that will only give rise to new banking systems or stronger China/Russia relationships by fortifying with China's own banking systems

[stompix]

The US is digging its own grave with these moves. Soon there will be more countries that don't use SWIFT than that use it.

First, SWIFT is not American.
Second, it's not countries that use it but financial institutions.
Third, it's rather a settlement service, so no, a company that wants to sell something will don't give a damn or two about SWIFT, it's the banks that are not connected to that will feel the pain since it will take months for things done in a day.

So in order for A to have a settlement with B, B needs an account over at A or the other way around.
Even if Russia would implement an alternative it would still require Russian banks to have accounts overseas which, defeats the whole purpose of it that.

There will ALWAYS be people who will support Russia, it could be Russians, it could be people from old soviet lands that are not Russia, it could be leftists from other nations who want to support Russia against USA, and many other types.

Look how supportive are the nations from the old Warsaw Pact and you're going to get a better picture of why support is close to zero.

The only real problem happening right now which is causing these tensions is America Russia running out of money and they now need to start a war somewhere, with someone. Or at least make people believe there will be a war so that they can more easily sell weapons.

FTFY.
It's not the US who is preparing for a war in Ukraine, is not the US that has invaded Ukraine and taken land for it and it's not the US threatening with war. Out of money? It's not the US that has defaulted twice in the last 3 decades.
As for weapons selling:

2020
Rank   Supplier   Arms Exp (in billion TIV)
1    United States   9,372
2    Russia   3,203

Look who's talking about making profits from weapons.
Let's throw in the fact that the US GDP is 10 times bigger and voila! Russia actually exports 3 times more weapons per capita than the US.
What a peace-loving nation.

[DrBeer]

Didn't Ukraine president Yanukovych have a negotiation between them that the port of Crimea is now controlled by Russia which up to 2042?
After some militants in those areas and minorities including the Russian-speaking Ukrainians there that turned that region into a war zone which is why Russian steps in to make it peaceful.

If Ukraine wants to turn that region into a bigger warzone like your whole country, be a member of NATO and you will see what's left for the country. It's never worth bringing a 3rd party that will take everything instead because after all both country was part of the USSR and your NAVY shares that Crimea sea.

Sorry, but now, either intentionally or out of ignorance, you are carrying informational nonsense!
Yanukovych only negotiated that Ukraine allows Russia to prolong the agreement on the lease of certain territories for the needs of the Russian Navy, But no more!
I will also add that according to this agreement, the Russian Federation was obliged to coordinate any exit of the Russian military personnel outside the territory of the leased bases - no free movement outside the leased zones. And yet - in Ukraine there is a PARLIAMENTARY-presidential power, and the president cannot make any decisions unilaterally. Everything I have said can be checked in the legislation of Ukraine and open agreements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine.

And about the "militants" - without organization, funding, direct support, including by the regular troops of the Russian Federation, nothing would have happened. I have been working with the eastern region for many years, and Donetsk "I know like the back of my hand", and I know that since 2004-2006 there has already been a pumping of pro-Russian ideology. population, Russian Cossacks, Russian propagandists. You can’t even imagine what kind of nonsense you pumped them up. But this is exactly how the propaganda of the Russian Federation works - the search for marginalized, degrading individuals, brainwashing, hammering into the head the image of the enemy who is to blame for all his troubles, and of course these enemies became pro-Ukrainian citizens, and of course the degrading population of Donbas was hammered into the head that they were the ones created all the values ​​in Ukraine and fed the rest of the country, although in reality they were one of the most subsidized and plundered regions.

[nullama]

Lightning can be used instead of SWIFT.

That's what Strike is doing.

I can see that maybe fiat part could be tricky, but instead of a direct conversion, you could always go through am intermediary fiat.

Money cannot be stopped with Bitcoin in my opinion.

[DrBeer]

The only real problem happening right now which is causing these tensions is America running out of money and they now need to start a war somewhere, with someone. Or at least make people believe there will be a war so that they can more easily sell weapons. Russia is not a fool and knows this. Thats why Russia is not reacting the way that America hoped they would.

Even if in Russia SWIFT Banking is isolated that will only give rise to new banking systems or stronger China/Russia relationships by fortifying with China's own banking systems

Tell me - are there events in your life that are not caused by the manifestation of the end of money in the United States or any processes in the United States? )))

And a simple question for a mental health check - explain the logical sequence:
In the United States, money is running out -> war is needed -> Russia violates all international agreements captures Ukrainian Crimea -> after that it introduces its troops into the eastern regions of Ukraine -> Russia unleashes a terrorist protracted war in Ukraine -> This is all supported by total lies and pumping fakes through everything Russian information channels -> Along the borders of Ukraine, to a depth of 300 km, 2 belts of strike forces have been assembled, with a total number of about 250,000 soldiers () -> Now we are here (And here you explain what profit the USA gets, how Russia was led and started a war, and what does Ukraine have to do with it?)
I'm really looking forward to it!

PS And please tell us - how does China call the entire region from Transbaikalia to Khabarovsk? This is about "Russia with China"

[cabron]

The only real problem happening right now which is causing these tensions is America running out of money and they now need to start a war somewhere, with someone. Or at least make people believe there will be a war so that they can more easily sell weapons. Russia is not a fool and knows this. Thats why Russia is not reacting the way that America hoped they would.

Even if in Russia SWIFT Banking is isolated that will only give rise to new banking systems or stronger China/Russia relationships by fortifying with China's own banking systems

Tell me - are there events in your life that are not caused by the manifestation of the end of money in the United States or any processes in the United States? )))

And a simple question for a mental health check - explain the logical sequence:
In the United States, money is running out -> war is needed -> Russia violates all international agreements captures Ukrainian Crimea -> after that it introduces its troops into the eastern regions of Ukraine -> Russia unleashes a terrorist protracted war in Ukraine -> This is all supported by total lies and pumping fakes through everything Russian information channels -> Along the borders of Ukraine, to a depth of 300 km, 2 belts of strike forces have been assembled, with a total number of about 250,000 soldiers () -> Now we are here (And here you explain what profit the USA gets, how Russia was led and started a war, and what does Ukraine have to do with it?)
I'm really looking forward to it!

PS And please tell us - how does China call the entire region from Transbaikalia to Khabarovsk? This is about "Russia with China"

The friction between Ukraine and Russia is to be resolved between the two countries, it's the two that should have the negotiations. If Ukraine is going to bring the US, that violates thier agreement as well that NATO will not have any expansion in the region.

They all have thier own version of a factual story, they are even saying that most of the people in Ukraine are more favorable on Russia's side than those on Poland's side. There is division in the country so they say. It's much like the Taiwan case where most Taiwanese prefer to reunite with China.

[fiulpro]

Russia is doing some crazy stuff and this is actually not going to affect just Russia and Ukraine but it would also affect other countries as well and take everyone closer to the world war !! Therefore everyone is being super careful about it. There are troops already being deployed from both that UK and the US as well, this would actually cause probelms for the long term. Therefore excluding them from SWIFT system would be a good move for the time being but it can also cause probelms, might increase the agressive conflicts as well. I think USA needs to make peace agreements instead of putting the troops in so soon and the Ukraine have to even get further steps to increase their security for some mishaps.

[omone1]

Russia is trying to bully Ukraine to see if US and NATO will leave their neighbor alone from been enlisted as a NATO member, Putin is respected for making good his threat but this time he may not really invade Ukraine except he has some other plans around the US and her allies sanctions.

[DrBeer]

The friction between Ukraine and Russia is to be resolved between the two countries, it's the two that should have the negotiations. If Ukraine is going to bring the US, that violates thier agreement as well that NATO will not have any expansion in the region.
They all have thier own version of a factual story, they are even saying that most of the people in Ukraine are more favorable on Russia's side than those on Poland's side. There is division in the country so they say. It's much like the Taiwan case where most Taiwanese prefer to reunite with China.

Yeah ... I get it ... you just have absolutely no control over the situation. Ok, it's not difficult for me, I will take a digression into history! And every reader will be able to make sure and check every word I said By the way, this is the difference between propaganda and the truth - the truth is easy to check and make sure of justice

So - when the USSR died and the republics got a chance for freedom, after many decades of occupation, Ukraine was one of the few republics that had .. What? That's right - Nuclear Weapons. If memory serves, it was even included in the top three countries in terms of the number of nuclear weapons. On December 5, 1994, she signed the "Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine's Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons."
So, 27 years ago, on January 10, 1994, Ukraine, adhering to the concept of peaceful coexistence and development, decided to abandon nuclear weapons, and transfer ALL stocks of nuclear weapons to one of the countries that, in Ukraine's opinion, will be able to provide safe storage and maintenance (although I personally think that it was a mistake). Yes, it was the RSFSR, that was the name of the territory that is now called the Russian Federation. And since Ukraine showed such a gesture of peacefulness, and actually deprived itself of the strongest weapon, which weakened its security, 3 countries - Russia, the USA and Great Britain, together with Ukraine, signed the above Memorandum. And here about "friction" everything was very clearly spelled out: the signatories (USA, Britain, Russia), according to "clause 2 of the Memorandum, confirmed their obligations to refrain from the threat of force or its use against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever will not be used against Ukraine; " (the text of the memorandum is publicly available)
So. Russia SIGNED an agreement in which it OBLIGED to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine, not to use ANY weapon against Ukraine, to ensure POLITICAL INDEPENDENCE. AND ? In February 2014 - the introduction of troops (no need for self-defense, then Putin himself said that it was a special operation that he personally developed / supervised), the seizure of state power objects, military units, the murder of Ukrainian servicemen. After that, the shelling of the border zones of Ukraine from the territory of the Russian Federation, the introduction of a regular army into the eastern regions, the organization of terrorist cesspools of the DPR / LPR, support by regular military personnel (there are a lot of videos with interrogations of those), the supply of weapons, terrorist attacks, including the destruction of a civilian aircraft by a Russian weapons on the territory of Ukraine and much more ... This is "friction" for you as you put it Putin is trying to become a "new fürrer", heading a new movement of RASHISM and creating a new empire. But he is a pitiful parody of Hitler, because he was even afraid to openly declare war on the obviously weaker Ukraine, and is waging a vile, cowardly, terrorist / hybrid war. That is why, according to the memorandum, Ukraine turned to other signatories for help, and in connection with the violation of an international agreement - to other leaders of the UN member states and new structures such as the EU.

PS What negotiations with terrorists and aggressors? Only the destruction of the enemy on your territory! The war can be ended in only two ways - either lose or win, there are no other options!

PS
1. You did not continue the logical chain and did not describe the influence of the United States, see above
2. Well, another problem - tell us how the situation looks like in your unique reality?

[paxmao]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. ...

Nope, many banks in Russia are perfectly able to use SWIFT, particularly for their banking operations with Europe. These flows of capital are really the bread an butter of many Russian bankers and cannot be replaced by "their own system" which only would work between themselves and will not be accepted by the rest of the banks. Cutting Rusia from SWIFT would deal a blow to their operations in the West, which means that they would eventually reach an agreement with China and their satellites. This is not where you would want to go for a solid economy for sure.

[cabron]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. ...

Nope, many banks in Russia are perfectly able to use SWIFT, particularly for their banking operations with Europe. These flows of capital are really the bread an butter of many Russian bankers and cannot be replaced by "their own system" which only would work between themselves and will not be accepted by the rest of the banks. Cutting Rusia from SWIFT would deal a blow to their operations in the West, which means that they would eventually reach an agreement with China and their satellites. This is not where you would want to go for a solid economy for sure.

As of now, there are just 400 institutions part of it as written in Wikipedia which countries involve are China, India and Iran.

At the end of 2020, 23 foreign banks connected to the SPFS from Armenia, Belarus, Germany, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Switzerland.

System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPFS

And because Russia is also a supplier of gas and coal, they can live to demand the use of their own system which I think SWIFT will not hurt them much in the end.

[stompix]

And because Russia is also a supplier of gas and coal, they can live to demand the use of their own system which I think SWIFT will not hurt them much in the end.

I keep telling you and others, that's not how SWIFT works.
You think for it like some moneygram or westernunion or visa service when it's not!

European countries would pay Russia for gas the same way, send the money to a bank account and that's all, the problem will still be in Russia's court since in order to use that money fast and settle other debts with other banks he has no longer the link in the SWIFT systems.
You can't force a client to pay via SWIFT, there is no money being transferred in his system, it's the bank that receives the transfer that uses it in interbanking connection, so the banks that receive the payments can use SPFS, that doesn't help them at all if the banks in Europe who would receive those payments for other goods don't!

So it's not like a shop no longer accepting Visa or Mastercard, it's more like the push notification that your merchant's account has received the x in payment and you can pay your supplier y for the next batch of merchandise.

[DrBeer]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. ...

Nope, many banks in Russia are perfectly able to use SWIFT, particularly for their banking operations with Europe. These flows of capital are really the bread an butter of many Russian bankers and cannot be replaced by "their own system" which only would work between themselves and will not be accepted by the rest of the banks. Cutting Rusia from SWIFT would deal a blow to their operations in the West, which means that they would eventually reach an agreement with China and their satellites. This is not where you would want to go for a solid economy for sure.

In Russia, the fantasy on the theme "China is our brotherly people who also wants to destroy the United States" is very fashionable. China, of course, is "that little thing", but China has never been a "brother" of Russia, moreover, China has absolutely clear plans on the territory of Russia from the Urals to Kamchatka. Moreover, for China, Russia, as an adversary, is a more convenient target. And it seems that now China is implementing the principle of "Calmly watch the flow of the river, and someday you will see the corpse of your enemy float along the river." China is waiting for the weakening of Russia. Russia for China is a resource appendage, the USA is a consumer of the product of the global market of China. With whom in your China is it more profitable to be partners, albeit with a different worldview?

[Silberman]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. Russia isn't afraid of that anymore. No sanctions can make them back out from US.

Apparently, you got the news from a media that simply is producing news in favor of Ukraine and US. You got it all wrong. There is no invasion there nor hacking, the US just needs a bogeyman to start a war for their failing Empire which thier money comes from wars that always fail. If it isn't the weak Biden that is their president today, things like this wouldn't be happening, US should replace that guy. Otherwise, they will continue to fail even when they lure Ukraine to join NATO that isn't allowed in the treaty they have signed.

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down to die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

[Sithara007]

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down do die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

The question is not whether the Americans are able to fight the Russians. The real question is whether they can afford such a conflict. Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

[DrBeer]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. Russia isn't afraid of that anymore. No sanctions can make them back out from US.

Apparently, you got the news from a media that simply is producing news in favor of Ukraine and US. You got it all wrong. There is no invasion there nor hacking, the US just needs a bogeyman to start a war for their failing Empire which thier money comes from wars that always fail. If it isn't the weak Biden that is their president today, things like this wouldn't be happening, US should replace that guy. Otherwise, they will continue to fail even when they lure Ukraine to join NATO that isn't allowed in the treaty they have signed.

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down do die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

It is a mistake - the Kremlin criminals will not destroy Europe and the United States - the places where their money, savings are kept, where all the wealth stolen in Russia is taken away. They will not destroy countries - where are their villas, planes and sports cars. Those countries - where their children live and conduct business, where their mistresses and lovers live, where their women, favorite dogs and places of rest, where they constantly fly. They would rather wipe Russian Voronezh off the face of the earth than, for example, Los Angeles

[Argoo]

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down do die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

The question is not whether the Americans are able to fight the Russians. The real question is whether they can afford such a conflict. Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

If the Russian government continues to behave aggressively, threatening the use of weapons to the whole world, then the US government will be forced to fight with them. As for Afghanistan, the Americans have been there for 20 years. They trained and armed government troops there, but they cannot fight forever instead of them. Therefore, they left there, doing everything possible for the government troops to fight the Taliban further. It is not their fault that the Afghan government troops have shown cowardice.

[hello_good_sir]

They will probably look to pushing out their own CBDC much quicker than anticipated as a result of this.

This is one of the reasons why fiat is flawed, though.

All of the control to restrict access to a particular sector of the monetary system resides within the hands of one central entity, and it's just not going to be effective that way in the long run.

On top of CBDCs, hopefully Russia looks to expand their presence in the decentralized crypto space as well.

[Silberman]

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down do die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

The question is not whether the Americans are able to fight the Russians. The real question is whether they can afford such a conflict. Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

If the Russian government continues to behave aggressively, threatening the use of weapons to the whole world, then the US government will be forced to fight with them. As for Afghanistan, the Americans have been there for 20 years. They trained and armed government troops there, but they cannot fight forever instead of them. Therefore, they left there, doing everything possible for the government troops to fight the Taliban further. It is not their fault that the Afghan government troops have shown cowardice.

The rise of nuclear weapons make a direct confrontation between the US and Russia unthinkable, and if that was not enough biological weapons are also at disposal of both countries which are even worst than nuclear weapons, however what we could see are proxy wars, wars in which an ally of one of those countries wears down the other if they engage in a military conflict, and we could also see the use of economic sanctions against certain individuals or the whole country in case the diplomatic relationships deteriorate even more.

[Blue0x.com]

Using an outdated system backed by nothing but faith and a military as a weapon is not going to end well for the United States.  Sanctions reveal to the world that the US does not, in fact, operate in a free and fair market.

[DrBeer]

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down do die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

The question is not whether the Americans are able to fight the Russians. The real question is whether they can afford such a conflict. Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

If the Russian government continues to behave aggressively, threatening the use of weapons to the whole world, then the US government will be forced to fight with them. As for Afghanistan, the Americans have been there for 20 years. They trained and armed government troops there, but they cannot fight forever instead of them. Therefore, they left there, doing everything possible for the government troops to fight the Taliban further. It is not their fault that the Afghan government troops have shown cowardice.

The rise of nuclear weapons make a direct confrontation between the US and Russia unthinkable, and if that was not enough biological weapons are also at disposal of both countries which are even worst than nuclear weapons, however what we could see are proxy wars, wars in which an ally of one of those countries wears down the other if they engage in a military conflict, and we could also see the use of economic sanctions against certain individuals or the whole country in case the diplomatic relationships deteriorate even more.

You are a little mistaken - Russia does not need a war with NATO or the United States. The Russian Federation is well aware that in a non-nuclear war, the Russian army will be defeated quickly enough, and the current government will be physically destroyed, or it will be seized, undergo a shameful trial and will be destroyed as international criminals. A nuclear war is unnecessary for both the United States and the Russian Federation. The USA does not want to perish, the generals of Russia do not want to destroy their children and grandchildren, as well as their calm, rich pension in the same USA, where they have been withdrawing their money all their lives
Russia needs the opportunity to realize its imperial ambitions, to "collect" back the countries that were once occupied by the Moscow empire, in order to show the "greatness" to its poor population that has no future. Why does the Russian Federation have so much attention to Ukraine? Because Ukraine tried to escape from the "embrace" of Russia and start living like civilized countries. For Russia, this is like death - if Ukraine succeeds (and everyone is talking about it now), the Kremlin ghouls will have to explain in front of 100+ million angry, poorer, aging population how it turns out that in Ukraine, where there are no such resources as in Russia, people live better than in the "richest Russia". This means that we will have to tell you that all the money was stolen by Putin's friends, and the population can cut social services, cut budgets for medicine and education ...
And about the "imperial ambitions" - if you read the Kremlin ultimatum - there are often indicated the territories that the Russian Federation needs - "the countries that were previously part of the USSR."

[paxmao]

Cutting Swift for Russia was done a long time ago that's why they do have their own. ...

Nope, many banks in Russia are perfectly able to use SWIFT, particularly for their banking operations with Europe. These flows of capital are really the bread an butter of many Russian bankers and cannot be replaced by "their own system" which only would work between themselves and will not be accepted by the rest of the banks. Cutting Rusia from SWIFT would deal a blow to their operations in the West, which means that they would eventually reach an agreement with China and their satellites. This is not where you would want to go for a solid economy for sure.

As of now, there are just 400 institutions part of it as written in Wikipedia which countries involve are China, India and Iran.

At the end of 2020, 23 foreign banks connected to the SPFS from Armenia, Belarus, Germany, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Switzerland.

System for Transfer of Financial Messages (SPFS) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPFS

And because Russia is also a supplier of gas and coal, they can live to demand the use of their own system which I think SWIFT will not hurt them much in the end.

Are you sure you understand what we are talking about? We are talking about the standard for fast bank transfers. AFAIK there are not that many systems out there. Perhaps US has its own, UK has certainly his own and there may be other, but SWIFT is widely used and it is used in Russia as of now for certain.

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2021/12/18/the-hidden-costs-of-cutting-russia-off-from-swift

This is behind a paywall so I will quote some for you:

With America and its allies loth to commit forces, another option is gaining prominence: cutting Russia off from swift, the messaging network used by 11,000 banks in 200 countries to make cross-border payments. Flicking a switch seems safer than putting boots on the ground. But it could have dangerous consequences.

Changing this will equate to a decoupling of the systems, giving China a chance:

firm. It would provide China with the impetus to bolster cips, its rival to swift, just as America’s other foes look for alternatives. The network, which already counts some big foreign banks as members, allows messages to be transmitted in both Chinese and English

[stompix]

Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

Who run away? Oh, are you maybe talking about 1989?
The US has occupied Afghanistan in two months and controlled it for 20 years, they decided to pull back and that's it, can you give an example of a battle where the Talibans have defeated the US army in the past year to trigger that panic?

But to add more flavor to this crappy whataboutism, you have to admit it's quite funny to talk about the failure of the US in Afghanistan when Russia invaded the same country without even declaring war and with more personal and more thanks than the alies had in the Gulf war and Irak war combined.
Yeah, let's pitchfork those evil Americans, just with a  small delay, till any of you manage to tell me why was Afghanistan invaded by Russia in the first place, the event that triggered all this mess. But you will need to look for that answer in some other places, not russiatoday or old Pravda editions.

Empires have gone down to die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

Ironic that this cold didn't work exactly when the Russian Empire needed it the most. I really need to check some Russian history books, do they miss world war 1 or 1904, or the Crimean war? 

Seriously, guys, we're talking about a gas station with an economy smaller than any of the top 3 states of the US alone, you have to be completely brainwashed in some KGB dungeon to even believe for a second somebody that matter 0.0000001% on this talent would choose to side with Russia in a complete economic war between those two. Do you think China would throw away a 30 trillion market for who? Russia is not making in trade with China even 10% of the Chinese-US balances, how could they even buy with their 1 trillion economy 500 billion of goods? Let's count the EU and there are another 400 billion. China needs to sell stuff for money and Russia has anything but money, except some territories than what a surprise, they've grabbed from China.
The outcome is pretty obvious, it's not even debatable at this point.

[Sithara007]

Who run away? Oh, are you maybe talking about 1989?
The US has occupied Afghanistan in two months and controlled it for 20 years, they decided to pull back and that's it, can you give an example of a battle where the Talibans have defeated the US army in the past year to trigger that panic?

The NATO intervention in Afghanistan ended up the same way as the Soviet intervention of 1979-89. I could see hardly any differences between the two outcomes. Back in the 80s, the Russians were in control of only the major cities, while most of the rural area was under the control of the Taliban. The same happened during the NATO intervention as well. The only major difference I could notice is that Russia (i.e the former USSR) only spent a few billions of USD in Afghanistan, while the Americans wasted a few trillion $$$.

[so98nn]

Thats terrific news. Im wondering how US took this much aggressive step while cutting them off. Though rivalries are their but banking used to be considered as backbone for any country. The main reason is businesses that runs on the import export nature has to gain the money from border based payment.

How about off shore settled companies from US to Russia and Vice versa would work? Because giant firms always need to send and receive money from their internal departments for production, expansion, operational activities and sometime salaries too.

This will literally not help USA gain anything from this. Even Russia will get affected with this but at the cost of huge losses in taxes. Now as the banking is cut off for them, the businesses may try to flee the money via black ways or under the table ways. That will cause serious consequences to US and Russia both.

I think they are forgetting that Taxes not only get generated from within the country businesses but also from the off shore businesses.

[stompix]

~

In case you might have forgotten what I asked you although it seems quite strange for it, it was for clarification about your previous comment:

the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs.

So, either you acknowledge that the Russian ran with their tails wagging before their legs from a 30 million strong country (the same as Ukraine) or you recognize that driven by patriotism spirit for the great bankrupt red bear you've twisted facts and ended up with obvious wrong conclusions.

Oh, and since this topic is mainly about money and less about re-writing history, here is another key difference for you, 10 years since the start of the war the Soviet Union went bankrupt, the US is well past that, in one year we will see if the term after the invasions till holds but I doubt it will.
So, let's stop with stupid comparisons and look at the obvious facts, a country that without nuclear weapons doesn't matter who threatens an alliance that rules the global economy they will build a better system and everyone will join. Who? In the rhythm Russia is losing population by the time they manage to get finally a few partners there will be no Russia anymore.

How about off shore settled companies from US to Russia and Vice versa would work? Because giant firms always need to send and receive money from their internal departments for production, expansion, operational activities and sometime salaries too.

Giants companies can't produce, expand and operate with 140 million poeple who earn less than half what poeple in Texas do. That's why you don't have any major Russian companies other than Rosneft and Gazprom.
Again, poeple who are driven by their hate of the US into applauding the red parade without even bothering to check reality should take a break and do so ...

How about off shore settled companies from US to Russia and Vice versa would work?

Again, you don't understand how SWIFT works.
Those are not carrier pigeons that are shot down if they fly from the US to Russia and they would work if they are housed in Vladivostok and Costa Rica, the moment Russia is cut from the SWIFT off-shore won't work just isn't working for North Korea.
 

[DrBeer]

Who run away? Oh, are you maybe talking about 1989?
The US has occupied Afghanistan in two months and controlled it for 20 years, they decided to pull back and that's it, can you give an example of a battle where the Talibans have defeated the US army in the past year to trigger that panic?

The NATO intervention in Afghanistan ended up the same way as the Soviet intervention of 1979-89. I could see hardly any differences between the two outcomes. Back in the 80s, the Russians were in control of only the major cities, while most of the rural area was under the control of the Taliban. The same happened during the NATO intervention as well. The only major difference I could notice is that Russia (i.e the former USSR) only spent a few billions of USD in Afghanistan, while the Americans wasted a few trillion $$$.

But - the result of these "several billions" spent was the complete degradation of the Soviet economy, we are not talking about a total drop in living standards, degradation of the community and much more, which ultimately led to the collapse of the USSR.
And the USA just printed new pieces of paper and that's it ... Do you feel the difference ?!

[Kakmakr]

I always thought SWIFT was just a large inter Bank accounting system. So instead of transferring small amounts ..every time when there are international transactions.... the Banks collect the data from all transactions being made and then collectively balance the books for all those transactions. (A type of reconciliation for International Bank Settlements) 

Should this be the case.... then Russian businesses and Banks working with SWIFT will have to find other ways to transact with each other to do international transfers. (or alternatively transfer money to countries that are not being isolated/sanctioned) 

[DrBeer]

I always thought SWIFT was just a large inter Bank accounting system. So instead of transferring small amounts ..every time when there are international transactions.... the Banks collect the data from all transactions being made and then collectively balance the books for all those transactions. (A type of reconciliation for International Bank Settlements) 

Should this be the case.... then Russian businesses and Banks working with SWIFT will have to find other ways to transact with each other to do international transfers. (or alternatively transfer money to countries that are not being isolated/sanctioned) 

No one would threaten to disconnect from SWIFT if it were a simple transactional system. In fact, this is a much broader system, without which even entire segments of the economy of a country or region can simply stop working. Remember Iran? How is it "simple banking system" nearly returned Iran to the Stone Age. For Russia, this is a terrible threat, because she needs currency. No, not ayun, not your own ruble, but dollars and euros, they depend on Western technologies and goods! And they can get currency only by selling oil and gas to the developed world and to Europe, and without SWIFT this will no longer work ...

[Sithara007]

But - the result of these "several billions" spent was the complete degradation of the Soviet economy, we are not talking about a total drop in living standards, degradation of the community and much more, which ultimately led to the collapse of the USSR.
And the USA just printed new pieces of paper and that's it ... Do you feel the difference ?!

Well.. most of this is true. When the invasion started in 1979, the Soviet economy was in (relatively) good shape. But after a few years, the crude oil prices plummeted, and the junta was unable to subsidize the Afghan communists. At this point, they should have pulled out from Afghanistan. But they persisted for another decade or so, and stopped their intervention only in 1992. And it is not just Afghanistan. The USSR was involved in cold war conflicts around the world, including Angola, Mozambique, Sudan, Korea, Nicaragua and Rhodesia.

[paxmao]

Under all these issues there is an underlying belief from Russia or at least a large part of the Russian people that the USSR was de-facto Russia controlling all the republics under an illusion of partial decentralisation and also that now, even though the USSR does not exist as such, countries such as Ukraine and other are still a satellites of Russia and their citizens have nothing to say on regards of how they are run and how they want to play their international relations. This is a wake up call for the despots.

[S A KHAIR]

If you keep up with world news, you know there are some serious tensions between Russia and Ukraine.
<>

You discussed worldwide are potential SWIFT connections and Russia's economic impact,
Well,  first you need to know what is SWIFT?
According to investopedia:

SWIFT is a huge messaging network used by banks and other financial institutions to exchange information quickly, accurately, and securely.

Source: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050515/how-swift-system-works.asp

The issue of US sanctions against Russia is not new, And it is in this conflict that US President Joe Biden has called for Ukraine to be removed from Russia, And it is known that Russia may be excluded from Swift if such sanctions are imposed on Russia. However, it will have a major impact on the Russian economy.

[stompix]

I always thought SWIFT was just a large inter Bank accounting system. So instead of transferring small amounts ..every time when there are international transactions.... the Banks collect the data from all transactions being made and then collectively balance the books for all those transactions. (A type of reconciliation for International Bank Settlements) 

You almost got it right till the last step,  Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication , the telecommunication part is the giveaway in what SWIFT does, but as you have realized the difference is enormous when it comes to creating an alternative, it's not about demanding payments from somebody in a different coin, is making your partner's bank entering settlements with all the bans in your alternative system.

Why would they? No reason!
A ban would do that only if it has a huge outgoing and incoming volume there, but since the trade Russia has with other countries is limited, there is no need for immediate settlements, especially since bot Gazprom or Rosneft wouldn't make foreign payments.

No one would threaten to disconnect from SWIFT if it were a simple transactional system. In fact, this is a much broader system, without which even entire segments of the economy of a country or region can simply stop working. Remember Iran? How is it "simple banking system" nearly returned Iran to the Stone Age.

There are still delusional poeple who claim Iran is a superpower...
And they don't realize they are on the same level as Poland.

This is a wake up call for the despots.

Nope, nothing is going to happen.
While Ukraine and Belarus do have a chance because of their ties with Europe, counties in Asia have nowhere to look for a model, look at all the -stan countries and their leaders
Uzbekistan, Karimov was president from 92 till 2016 (when he died)
Tajikistan, Rahmon elected 5 times a president
Turkmenistan, Niyazov from 85 till his death, Berdimuhamedow since 2007, elected with 100%
On what model can they take from? Russia? China? There is no influence near them there is no trade no exchange of information, no nothing.
They will stay like this in the dark till the countries collapse completely.

[DrBeer]

No one would threaten to disconnect from SWIFT if it were a simple transactional system. In fact, this is a much broader system, without which even entire segments of the economy of a country or region can simply stop working. Remember Iran? How is it "simple banking system" nearly returned Iran to the Stone Age.

There are still delusional poeple who claim Iran is a superpower...
And they don't realize they are on the same level as Poland.

Iran, before the Islamic Revolution, was quite a progressive country, which could be/become a very influential Asian center. But ... they decided to return to the "Stone Age", and then they decided to just start doing lawlessness. After that, all chances were lost, and now it is pointless to talk about the prospects of Iran! But Poland looks very promising, even against the backdrop of all these lockdowns and global problems due to the coronavirus. You have no idea what day Poland was in the 80s! I lived in Warsaw until 1979, and it was much better there than in the USSR, but then the destruction of the socialist economy, the collapse of the political system ... The Poles had to endure the most difficult decade, but they found strength in themselves, and now Poland is very noticeable in Europe a country with a dynamically developing economy, a good investment, and a fairly good standard of living ...

[Argoo]

Under all these issues there is an underlying belief from Russia or at least a large part of the Russian people that the USSR was de-facto Russia controlling all the republics under an illusion of partial decentralisation and also that now, even though the USSR does not exist as such, countries such as Ukraine and other are still a satellites of Russia and their citizens have nothing to say on regards of how they are run and how they want to play their international relations. This is a wake up call for the despots.

A very peculiar point of view. Why do you think that Ukraine is a satellite of Russia? Ukraine has been a sovereign independent state for thirty years, which is completely independent of Russia. Especially now, when a hybrid war has been going on between Ukraine and Russia since 2014 after Russia seized part of the territory of Ukraine through an armed invasion and killed about 14,000 Ukrainians on the territory of Ukraine. Therefore, today in Ukraine any ties with Russia as its enemy have been reduced to a minimum.

[DrBeer]

Under all these issues there is an underlying belief from Russia or at least a large part of the Russian people that the USSR was de-facto Russia controlling all the republics under an illusion of partial decentralisation and also that now, even though the USSR does not exist as such, countries such as Ukraine and other are still a satellites of Russia and their citizens have nothing to say on regards of how they are run and how they want to play their international relations. This is a wake up call for the despots.

Question - do you understand the word "satellite" in relation to the state structure? Or are you just repeating the words of Russian propaganda?
I explain:
1. "a formally independent state that is under the political and economic influence of another state and enjoys its protectionism in the international arena." - this is a description of the satellite countries.
2. Ukraine, like other republics of the USSR, was OCCUPIED and FORCED attached to the USSR.
By the way, why "attached"? Part in order to get resources (the entire Trans-Urals has an indigenous population that was partially or completely destroyed). In order to have intellectual potential (scientific centers were mainly in Ukraine, Belarus, ...). That is why in 2014-2015, from the territory of Ukraine, temporarily docked by Russia (LPR / DPR), about 20 Ukrainian technological plants were exported to Russia. True, it is possible to steal a plant, but the Russians didn’t have enough sense to use it, and they couldn’t fully benefit from the stolen
Which in general is proved both by facts from past history and by facts from modern history. And as practice has shown, those who were in the occupation of the republic, where there was a change of power, and there was no Soviet-Russian version of the rulers, live perfectly, develop, and achieve excellent results.

[paxmao]

If that is what they are trying to do then that is a big mistake, Russia has nuclear weapons and regardless of whatever technological advancements the US may have fighting an aggression war against Russia is a huge mistake, Empires have gone down do die on the cold of Russia, in a way it makes sense as when an Empire is in crisis historically it tries to find an enemy to unite their people and try to gain an economic advantage, but it is too dangerous to do this against Russia.

The question is not whether the Americans are able to fight the Russians. The real question is whether they can afford such a conflict. Look at what happened in Afghanistan, which is a third world country of 30 million people. After spending trillions of USD in funds, the Americans ran back to their homeland with their tails wagging between their legs. The same thing happened in Syria, Iraq and Libya as well. And here we are talking about an adversary who is stronger by the magnitude of 100x or 200x.

They cannot and wont go into an armed conflict - I hope nobody here is trying to ignore that there is chance that such conflict ends up on a nuclear war.

The US government just spent a lot of political capital on withdrawing from Afghanistan and their finance situation is far from good. However, Russia in not the USSR. The interlock between Russian economy and Western world economy is much stronger currently and that makes the case for using economic sanctions. Putin does enjoy quite a leeway on his autocracy, however he is suffering internal problems and may feel not that secure. Economic sanctions can be as lethal as open war.

In my view, either Europe and the US act or Ukraine will become a larger and worst case of Bielorussization.

[Sithara007]

They cannot and wont go into an armed conflict - I hope nobody here is trying to ignore that there is chance that such conflict ends up on a nuclear war.

The US government just spent a lot of political capital on withdrawing from Afghanistan and their finance situation is far from good. However, Russia in not the USSR. The interlock between Russian economy and Western world economy is much stronger currently and that makes the case for using economic sanctions. Putin does enjoy quite a leeway on his autocracy, however he is suffering internal problems and may feel not that secure. Economic sanctions can be as lethal as open war.

In my view, either Europe and the US act or Ukraine will become a larger and worst case of Bielorussization.

How do you want the West to act?

Right now, they don't have the capability to defeat Russia militarily. All they can do is to impose sanctions and embargoes. And as we have seen so far, these sanctions haven't worked in the past. As long as the oil/gas prices remain high, Putin will be able to afford invading other countries. And the replacement of Trump by Biden has actually helped in this. Biden banned fracking in federal lands and cancelled a few of the pipeline projects. And this was the main reason why the oil prices jumped from $40 per barrel during the Trump era, to the level they are now ($86 per barrel). Irrespective of what they claim, Joe Biden is the best thing that has happened to Russia in the last one decade.

It was Ronald Reagan who destroyed the USSR in late 1980s, by strategically decreasing the oil prices. The USSR ran out of money and it simply disintegrated. Trump followed the same approach, but these strategies were reversed by Biden.

[davis196]

If Russia gets cut out from the SWIFT,how the Russians are going to get paid for all the goods they are exporting and selling to the rest of the world?Gold,fiat cash or Bitcoin?Nah,Bitcoin is not an option.
I don't really think that Russia and the western world will go to war for Ukraine.A war means that both sides will lose and nobody is going to win.Putin is clearly bluffing against the west,because he doesn't have a plan B.
What's the plan B for Russia?Becoming China's puppet state and main supplier of fuels and raw materials,eventually becoming more and more dependent of the Chinese?
I think that Putin wants to keep all options available and he will agree to negotiate with the western world.

[DrBeer]

If Russia gets cut out from the SWIFT,how the Russians are going to get paid for all the goods they are exporting and selling to the rest of the world?Gold,fiat cash or Bitcoin?Nah,Bitcoin is not an option.
I don't really think that Russia and the western world will go to war for Ukraine.A war means that both sides will lose and nobody is going to win.Putin is clearly bluffing against the west,because he doesn't have a plan B.
What's the plan B for Russia?Becoming China's puppet state and main supplier of fuels and raw materials,eventually becoming more and more dependent of the Chinese?
I think that Putin wants to keep all options available and he will agree to negotiate with the western world.

You do not understand the psychotype of Russian politicians a little. The most suitable image is "gopnik". In slang, this means such a petty, cowardly, vile, not even a bandit, but a yard hooligan. He beats and offends the weak and harmless, children, old people. Maybe from behind the fence, shout an insult to the policeman or show "fuck", and then quickly run away, hide at home, and cowardly look out the window, afraid that the policeman will come. And if a healthy, strong man catches him for hooligan behavior, and begins to "drive in" explanations why it is not necessary to do this, this "gopnik" begins to squeal, cry, ask him to forgive, and generally complain that he is being abused. If you let him go, he runs away to a safe distance, starts screaming as if he had beaten this person, but regretted it, after which he again ran away to hide home
That's exactly what the Kremlin's policy is. What they do in slang is called "chasing show-offs", but for the soul and in reality they have nothing, they bark at the USA and other countries, do petty meanness, offend, ALWAYS WEAKER countries ... I am sure that in 2022 Russia will do the following:
1. Will try to raise the degree of tension in the east of Ukraine. Perhaps even full-fledged provocations and attempts to capture new territories.
2. It will begin to systematically carry out "small" diverse terrorist attacks - from economic ones, such as shortages of gas supplies to the EU, to technological ones - cyber attacks on infrastructure facilities, communication nodes and channels, etc.
3. Most likely, it will be an attempt to unleash a new war or military conflict, for a "small victorious war" - to raise Putin's nude image. Either a series of terrorist attacks in Russia, in order to limit the protest moods within Russia itself, or in order to pass them off as the machinations of "enemies".
4. At the same time, the sanctions and the reaction of the European hydrocarbon market to the idiotic actions of the Kremlin will further aggravate the economic crisis in Russia.

[oHnK]

If Russia gets cut out from the SWIFT,how the Russians are going to get paid for all the goods they are exporting and selling to the rest of the world?Gold,fiat cash or Bitcoin?Nah,Bitcoin is not an option.
I don't really think that Russia and the western world will go to war for Ukraine.A war means that both sides will lose and nobody is going to win.Putin is clearly bluffing against the west,because he doesn't have a plan B.
What's the plan B for Russia?Becoming China's puppet state and main supplier of fuels and raw materials,eventually becoming more and more dependent of the Chinese?
I think that Putin wants to keep all options available and he will agree to negotiate with the western world.

Indeed, the current state of relations between the two countries is very hot, due to the political interests of their respective countries. I do not think that Russia really wants to go to war with that country, because the war that will be carried out will not have a significant advantage and become an obstacle for their country to develop further. The economic conditions during the pandemic are also not good, especially at this time the alternative payment is still not perfect even though they have planned to find an alternative system for the threat posed by the US. Ukraine itself is quite sensitive to the condition of Russia which increases its war fleet. In fact, again, it is a personal Russian affair, it is natural for a country to strengthen its defense and security.

[DrBeer]

If Russia gets cut out from the SWIFT,how the Russians are going to get paid for all the goods they are exporting and selling to the rest of the world?Gold,fiat cash or Bitcoin?Nah,Bitcoin is not an option.
I don't really think that Russia and the western world will go to war for Ukraine.A war means that both sides will lose and nobody is going to win.Putin is clearly bluffing against the west,because he doesn't have a plan B.
What's the plan B for Russia?Becoming China's puppet state and main supplier of fuels and raw materials,eventually becoming more and more dependent of the Chinese?
I think that Putin wants to keep all options available and he will agree to negotiate with the western world.

Indeed, the current state of relations between the two countries is very hot, due to the political interests of their respective countries. I do not think that Russia really wants to go to war with that country, because the war that will be carried out will not have a significant advantage and become an obstacle for their country to develop further. The economic conditions during the pandemic are also not good, especially at this time the alternative payment is still not perfect even though they have planned to find an alternative system for the threat posed by the US. Ukraine itself is quite sensitive to the condition of Russia which increases its war fleet. In fact, again, it is a personal Russian affair, it is natural for a country to strengthen its defense and security.

Hot relationship?? Because of political interests?
Have you ever seen full-fledged hostilities, with the corpses of your friends, or just people who are not familiar to you and lived a simple, calm life? Namely, this is what the beginning of Russian aggression looked like! The capture and annexation of Crimea, and then the introduction of troops and the seizure of territories in eastern Ukraine. Shelling of peaceful villages and cities, murders, torture, kidnappings and looting. I would not want to see the same "hot" and "political interests" in your country. But in reality, this is not a declared, terrorist, predatory war unleashed by Russia against Ukraine. If you read history, Russia unleashed identical wars against Moldova, Against Georgia. Pro-Russian sewers have been created everywhere by analogy with the LPR / DPR.

[laredo7mm]

At minimum a country's population needs: food, water, shelter, education and human relationships - Russia should be able to provide all of these for itself and manage quite well at it.

I think that is the reason how large countries like Russia, the chain, and Iran still dominating even after the USA sanction. They can provide foods, water, and shelter even no foreign goods have been imported to these countries.

I think Russia, like China, went imperialist though recently which might be something that could cause issues for a lot of other countries - imperialism may be more efficient than capitalism and socialism under certain circumstances.

As Lenin said "imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism" and right now we are observing that in these two countries. So I think imperialism is the higher stage capitalism and they have a close relationship between them. In imperialism and capitalism, both way capitalist gets the most of the profit by capturing and market and the natural resource of a country. Even imperialism expand these areas for capitalists than capitalism and hurt the poor. Inequality in the working sector and too much power in the center create fear among the people of that area. Though in this way infrastructure of a country developed so much because capitalist wants more money so they expand and develop industries.

In my opinion, you are right. imperialism may be more efficient for a countries infrastructure and industries developments.

[paxmao]

They cannot and wont go into an armed conflict - I hope nobody here is trying to ignore that there is chance that such conflict ends up on a nuclear war.

The US government just spent a lot of political capital on withdrawing from Afghanistan and their finance situation is far from good. However, Russia in not the USSR. The interlock between Russian economy and Western world economy is much stronger currently and that makes the case for using economic sanctions. Putin does enjoy quite a leeway on his autocracy, however he is suffering internal problems and may feel not that secure. Economic sanctions can be as lethal as open war.

In my view, either Europe and the US act or Ukraine will become a larger and worst case of Bielorussization.

How do you want the West to act?

Right now, they don't have the capability to defeat Russia militarily. All they can do is to impose sanctions and embargoes. And as we have seen so far, these sanctions haven't worked in the past. As long as the oil/gas prices remain high, Putin will be able to afford invading other countries. And the replacement of Trump by Biden has actually helped in this. Biden banned fracking in federal lands and cancelled a few of the pipeline projects. And this was the main reason why the oil prices jumped from $40 per barrel during the Trump era, to the level they are now ($86 per barrel). Irrespective of what they claim, Joe Biden is the best thing that has happened to Russia in the last one decade.

It was Ronald Reagan who destroyed the USSR in late 1980s, by strategically decreasing the oil prices. The USSR ran out of money and it simply disintegrated. Trump followed the same approach, but these strategies were reversed by Biden.

The west is doing the right thing. No concessions on the base of armed threats, as that would be then the way forward for any issue in the future. Please, note that when Putin really wanted to invade Crimea, there was no playing, discussion or negotiations. He just did it. Do you not wonder why this time he is just holding the horses right at the border? Even if he wins, he does not win. He may even invade Ukraine, he will not be better of than he was and he will have a complicated diplomatic stance with EU and US to deal with - including sanctions.

Use armed forces to stop Russia? I do not think that would a problem of having them, more of a problem of paying the bill financially and politically.

By the way, you are just mixing this with a theory by which the president of the US is in control of world oil prices? I wonder how that works from your point of view. The Reagan area was far less complex and the US had far more power in comparison.

Under all these issues there is an underlying belief from Russia or at least a large part of the Russian people that the USSR was de-facto Russia controlling all the republics under an illusion of partial decentralisation and also that now, even though the USSR does not exist as such, countries such as Ukraine and other are still a satellites of Russia and their citizens have nothing to say on regards of how they are run and how they want to play their international relations. This is a wake up call for the despots.

A very peculiar point of view. Why do you think that Ukraine is a satellite of Russia? Ukraine has been a sovereign independent state for thirty years, which is completely independent of Russia. Especially now, when a hybrid war has been going on between Ukraine and Russia since 2014 after Russia seized part of the territory of Ukraine through an armed invasion and killed about 14,000 Ukrainians on the territory of Ukraine. Therefore, today in Ukraine any ties with Russia as its enemy have been reduced to a minimum.

No, I do not consider Ukraine a satellite, what I am saying is that Putin kind of does. At least he likes to think of it as his backyard. Hybrid war... well you can choose your words, but it is not hybrid, simply undeclared. When Russia wants to take, they take.

Completely independent from Russia? - Sure, on the papers and on the declarations. I wish that were true. You see, that reads to me like saying that Panama is a sovereign country independent from the US. That is only true while US wants it that way.

[Ozero]

Now the political and military situation around the gangster actions of Putin and his entourage is inflated to the limit. Moscow’s reckless and brazen actions when Russia attacked Georgia in 2008 did not receive the proper reaction and actions from the world’s states, so Putin thought that everything was allowed to him and his further such actions would go unpunished. Therefore, in 2014, Putin sent his troops into Ukraine, occupying a significant part of its territory. And again, the reaction of Europe and the United States was very inadequate and amounted either to "deep concern" or to not very effective economic sanctions. Lately, Putin has been blackmailing Europe and NATO, threatening to use military force as well.
 The rest of the world has finally realized that this can affect them too, and therefore Putin's blackmail has recently received a worthy response and rebuff. Now Putin is backed into a corner, because Russia does not have enough economic or military resources to fight the rest of the world.
The outcome of the current tensions will be resolved in the next month and a half, after which the situation will return to normal, and Putin and Russia as a whole will get what they deserve.

[DrBeer]

Now the political and military situation around the gangster actions of Putin and his entourage is inflated to the limit. Moscow’s reckless and brazen actions when Russia attacked Georgia in 2008 did not receive the proper reaction and actions from the world’s states, so Putin thought that everything was allowed to him and his further such actions would go unpunished. Therefore, in 2014, Putin sent his troops into Ukraine, occupying a significant part of its territory. And again, the reaction of Europe and the United States was very inadequate and amounted either to "deep concern" or to not very effective economic sanctions. Lately, Putin has been blackmailing Europe and NATO, threatening to use military force as well.
 The rest of the world has finally realized that this can affect them too, and therefore Putin's blackmail has recently received a worthy response and rebuff. Now Putin is backed into a corner, because Russia does not have enough economic or military resources to fight the rest of the world.
The outcome of the current tensions will be resolved in the next month and a half, after which the situation will return to normal, and Putin and Russia as a whole will get what they deserve.

Unfortunately, stabilization is still far away, and will be far away. It is necessary to understand one simple, but very important thing. Kremlin policy is not Putin. Putin is a collective image of the "leader of the nation in the Russian way" - vile, deceitful, cowardly, with a sickly fantasy and manners of the "ruler of the universe", a defective copy of Hitler.
No, Putin is not evil, Putin is just the physical realization of the dreams of Russians. If you remove it now (they can even do it themselves), tomorrow they will choose exactly the same one, they will continue to sit up to their necks in shit, and "proud of greatness" and the fact that "everyone is afraid of them"
The end of rashism will come with the division of Russia into independent, liberated republics, and provided that the Russian politicians / generals / and their servants who are responsible for what has happened over the past 30-40 years will be identified, caught and severely punished. Believe me, a world evil was born a century ago - German Nazism. Tens of millions of people became its victims. But after the destruction of Nazism, the world missed the birth of an even more terrible regime, which even before Nazism destroyed more people, and then many more tens of millions of people. RASHISM! It is the cancer of the modern world. There are already metastases, and the question of fighting such a disease is only in the complete destruction of the cells of this disease, otherwise nothing will work ....

If you are not a Russian speaker, you will find it hard to believe. But it is enough to look at the rhetoric on all TV channels, to listen to ordinary residents - most of them consider the whole world to be freaks and underhuman. They really want to destroy, enslave, steal and appropriate. This is their genetic habit. Find a Russian speaker, turn on their TV programs from the main channels (alternative ones have not been there for a long time), and ask them to translate for you. Stock up on heart medication...

Therefore, I believe that the United States has chosen the right path, economic strangulation sent the parent of this monster, the USSR, to the next world. I hope his geek will also destroy him, but this time no one will help them preserve and restore the country ... They, the bearers of rashism, do not know what gratitude, honor and dignity are

[Obito]

Russia would definitely create their own banking system and I am pretty sure that they will force their will upon other countries because they are a superpower after all, I am pretty sure that they won't be easily intimidated by that threat, they're one of the main participants in Cold War and I am sure that this threat is nothing to them especially with Putin still on the seat of power, he won't be budging easily.

[DrBeer]

Russia would definitely create their own banking system and I am pretty sure that they will force their will upon other countries because they are a superpower after all, I am pretty sure that they won't be easily intimidated by that threat, they're one of the main participants in Cold War and I am sure that this threat is nothing to them especially with Putin still on the seat of power, he won't be budging easily.

As history and facts show, apart from nasty things, Russia cannot do something normally. And even more so its banking FULL system, with payments and other things. At least because Russia is a technologically backward country. It is not without reason that one of the parts of the sanctions is a ban on the supply of technologies and technological equipment. What would you understand - being an oil and gas "monster" country, Russia does not have its own technologies for developing oil and gas fields, except for those with surface occurrence. All other production, all the time, is realized only with the help of foreign equipment and technologies! What banking systems? What is the imposition of one's will? Forbid them to use Western technologies, and in 2-3 years they will fall apart, and again, out of habit, they will beg for food from the USA and others

One question - what is NEW, PROGRESSIVE, what the whole world uses, has been created in Russia over the past 30 years?

UPDATE

About sanctions that have not yet been applied, but only promised:
1. The Moscow Exchange Index collapsed by 6.5%. Shares of leading Russian companies fell from 5 to 10%
2. Government shares collapsed, and the National Welfare Fund. The fund lost about 750 billion rubles in 2 days. The total losses of the Russian budget in 2 days amounted to about 2 trillion rubles ...
3. Germany's attempt to play into the hands of Russia only made things worse. After the publication in the German press, information that "the Western allies decided not to disconnect Russia from SWIFT." A few hours later they were refuted by the OFFICIAL statement of the USA, which immediately caused a reaction - a collapse on the Russian stock exchanges.

[stompix]

Russia would definitely create their own banking system and I am pretty sure that they will force their will upon other countries because they are a superpower after all, I am pretty sure that they won't be easily intimidated by that threat, they're one of the main participants in Cold War and I am sure that this threat is nothing to them especially with Putin still on the seat of power, he won't be budging easily.

Russia is not the USSR!

The difference is of 15 states less, with a drop of the population from 280 million to 147 million, in 1989 USSR's economy was 2.5 trillion while the US was at 4.8. Now, Russia has 1.5 trillion, the US 20 trillion, the EU 17.
Before 1989 the USSR could rely on the Warsaw Pact, East Germany has joined West Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic,  Hungary have all joined Nato and the EU.

Russia has nowhere near the power or the influence the USSR had, and apart from bullying its neighbors and threatening with the only thing they can "produce", oil and gas there is nothing, absolutely nothing.

Who would use this system and why? Tell me any economical reason for some company that does 100 billion in the EU and 10 cents in trade with Rusia to adopt it.

How do you want the West to act?
Right now, they don't have the capability to defeat Russia militarily.

And Russia has the capability of defeating the west? Lol...
Neither Russia nor the USSR nor the Russian Empire has ever fought alone against the whole of Europe,  two hundred years ago or right now, even the idea is just ridiculous.

[DrBeer]

Russia would definitely create their own banking system and I am pretty sure that they will force their will upon other countries because they are a superpower after all, I am pretty sure that they won't be easily intimidated by that threat, they're one of the main participants in Cold War and I am sure that this threat is nothing to them especially with Putin still on the seat of power, he won't be budging easily.

Russia is not the USSR!

The difference is of 15 states less, with a drop of the population from 280 million to 147 million, in 1989 USSR's economy was 2.5 trillion while the US was at 4.8. Now, Russia has 1.5 trillion, the US 20 trillion, the EU 17.
Before 1989 the USSR could rely on the Warsaw Pact, East Germany has joined West Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic,  Hungary have all joined Nato and the EU.

Russia has nowhere near the power or the influence the USSR had, and apart from bullying its neighbors and threatening with the only thing they can "produce", oil and gas there is nothing, absolutely nothing.

Who would use this system and why? Tell me any economical reason for some company that does 100 billion in the EU and 10 cents in trade with Rusia to adopt it.

How do you want the West to act?
Right now, they don't have the capability to defeat Russia militarily.

And Russia has the capability of defeating the west? Lol...
Neither Russia nor the USSR nor the Russian Empire has ever fought alone against the whole of Europe,  two hundred years ago or right now, even the idea is just ridiculous.

Today, Russia is not even the "pale shadow" of the USSR, it is the decaying corpse of the USSR. The entire economy is built on the residual elements of the economy of the USSR, and nothing fundamental, since the collapse of the USSR, the RSFSR, it is the Russian Federation, has not created anything new!
Regarding the conduct of wars - Russia, NEVER, attacked those who would be commensurate in strength! The objects of Russian terror have always been countries that are guaranteed to be unable to fight back and defend themselves! Being technologically backward, vile and cowardly, military operations are always conducted against the civilian population, the purpose of which is to TERROR and morally suppress the civilian population. There are a lot of examples - Ichkeria, Georgia, Syria, Libya, ..... Hospitals, residential areas, schools bombed from a height - is it waging war? No, this is TERRORISM! Vile, cowardly, deceitful terrorism. That is why, yesterday, at the talks, Russia was "dipped headlong into the toilet", stopping their flow of hysterics, ultimatums, and threats.

[pinggoki]

The people that wants to live earnestly will be the one that's going to be suffering the most in this situation, Putin and his cronies are well off already so I am pretty sure that they don't care what happens in this situation, they can always just rebuild at the expense of their own people. A lot of countries have been to this kind of situation and we somehow know how it ends.

[SquallLeonhart]

The people that wants to live earnestly will be the one that's going to be suffering the most in this situation, Putin and his cronies are well off already so I am pretty sure that they don't care what happens in this situation, they can always just rebuild at the expense of their own people. A lot of countries have been to this kind of situation and we somehow know how it ends.

That is the thing with political chess playing. When nations attack each other, literally in a war, soldiers and civilians die but politicians rarely get ousted, they just keep their places. You will see, if Russia attacks Ukraine, the political leaders of Ukraine will be fine, Putin will be fine, it would be soldiers and civilians that die.

Same happens with economical warfare as well, politicians are already rich, if this happens, regular citizens will be having economical problems, and politicians do not care about anything at all. Putin will be fine, if anyone goes against him in an election, he will just get them killed and he will be fine. So all in all this will only hurt regular people and not the people at the top.

[Sithara007]

That is the thing with political chess playing. When nations attack each other, literally in a war, soldiers and civilians die but politicians rarely get ousted, they just keep their places. You will see, if Russia attacks Ukraine, the political leaders of Ukraine will be fine, Putin will be fine, it would be soldiers and civilians that die.

Same happens with economical warfare as well, politicians are already rich, if this happens, regular citizens will be having economical problems, and politicians do not care about anything at all. Putin will be fine, if anyone goes against him in an election, he will just get them killed and he will be fine. So all in all this will only hurt regular people and not the people at the top.

Agreed with this and the same is happening all around the world. Look at North Korea. The ordinary people are starving as a result of the embargoes and sanctions imposed by the United States. But at the same time, Kim Jong Un is enjoying his lifestyle with luxury items like Parmesan cheese and champagne from Moët & Chandon. The same will happen if a war breaks out between the NATO and Russia. Russian civilians will suffer from loss of life and wealth, and the American public will suffer from hyperinflation. In the short term, crude oil prices will shot up to $200 or $300 per barrel and that will bring another round of economic recession.

[cabron]

That is the thing with political chess playing. When nations attack each other, literally in a war, soldiers and civilians die but politicians rarely get ousted, they just keep their places. You will see, if Russia attacks Ukraine, the political leaders of Ukraine will be fine, Putin will be fine, it would be soldiers and civilians that die.

Same happens with economical warfare as well, politicians are already rich, if this happens, regular citizens will be having economical problems, and politicians do not care about anything at all. Putin will be fine, if anyone goes against him in an election, he will just get them killed and he will be fine. So all in all this will only hurt regular people and not the people at the top.

Agreed with this and the same is happening all around the world. Look at North Korea. The ordinary people are starving as a result of the embargoes and sanctions imposed by the United States. But at the same time, Kim Jong Un is enjoying his lifestyle with luxury items like Parmesan cheese and champagne from Moët & Chandon. The same will happen if a war breaks out between the NATO and Russia. Russian civilians will suffer from loss of life and wealth, and the American public will suffer from hyperinflation. In the short term, crude oil prices will shot up to $200 or $300 per barrel and that will bring another round of economic recession.

It's always the people of both sides who will suffer including the soldiers who just follow orders. These soldiers have families and loves ones who will likely go home dead and their kids of their kids grow the hate against other countries all because the leaders can't find the way to just make deals and agreements and then make money with what's on the table.

Germany has essentially vetoed the suggestion of excluding Russia from the Swift interbank system. Even Friedrich Merz the opposition of the German government had also opposed the suggestion. I think they already realized that Europe is dependent on Russia's oil and it will hit thier economy if something like that would happen.

[DrBeer]

That is the thing with political chess playing. When nations attack each other, literally in a war, soldiers and civilians die but politicians rarely get ousted, they just keep their places. You will see, if Russia attacks Ukraine, the political leaders of Ukraine will be fine, Putin will be fine, it would be soldiers and civilians that die.

Same happens with economical warfare as well, politicians are already rich, if this happens, regular citizens will be having economical problems, and politicians do not care about anything at all. Putin will be fine, if anyone goes against him in an election, he will just get them killed and he will be fine. So all in all this will only hurt regular people and not the people at the top.

Agreed with this and the same is happening all around the world. Look at North Korea. The ordinary people are starving as a result of the embargoes and sanctions imposed by the United States. But at the same time, Kim Jong Un is enjoying his lifestyle with luxury items like Parmesan cheese and champagne from Moët & Chandon. The same will happen if a war breaks out between the NATO and Russia. Russian civilians will suffer from loss of life and wealth, and the American public will suffer from hyperinflation. In the short term, crude oil prices will shot up to $200 or $300 per barrel and that will bring another round of economic recession.

It's always the people of both sides who will suffer including the soldiers who just follow orders. These soldiers have families and loves ones who will likely go home dead and their kids of their kids grow the hate against other countries all because the leaders can't find the way to just make deals and agreements and then make money with what's on the table.

Germany has essentially vetoed the suggestion of excluding Russia from the Swift interbank system. Even Friedrich Merz the opposition of the German government had also opposed the suggestion. I think they already realized that Europe is dependent on Russia's oil and it will hit thier economy if something like that would happen.

Of course, the civilian population suffers first of all, the soldiers of the army of the country subjected to aggression, the infrastructure of the country subjected to aggression. These are forced victims, which, with aggression, cannot be avoided. On the other hand, there is the aggressor and his people. After all, it is not Putin who kills Ukrainians in Ukraine... Ukrainians are killed by ordinary residents of Russia. But what is their motivation is also a question. Someone really believes in the propaganda of Russian state channels... And very many, as it turns out, go to kill Ukrainians because... they have no income at home, they live very poorly, and they pay good money for killing their neighbors !!! Do you understand how much Russia is a totally degraded country, people, mentality and morality?!

[cabron]

That is the thing with political chess playing. When nations attack each other, literally in a war, soldiers and civilians die but politicians rarely get ousted, they just keep their places. You will see, if Russia attacks Ukraine, the political leaders of Ukraine will be fine, Putin will be fine, it would be soldiers and civilians that die.

Same happens with economical warfare as well, politicians are already rich, if this happens, regular citizens will be having economical problems, and politicians do not care about anything at all. Putin will be fine, if anyone goes against him in an election, he will just get them killed and he will be fine. So all in all this will only hurt regular people and not the people at the top.

Agreed with this and the same is happening all around the world. Look at North Korea. The ordinary people are starving as a result of the embargoes and sanctions imposed by the United States. But at the same time, Kim Jong Un is enjoying his lifestyle with luxury items like Parmesan cheese and champagne from Moët & Chandon. The same will happen if a war breaks out between the NATO and Russia. Russian civilians will suffer from loss of life and wealth, and the American public will suffer from hyperinflation. In the short term, crude oil prices will shot up to $200 or $300 per barrel and that will bring another round of economic recession.

It's always the people of both sides who will suffer including the soldiers who just follow orders. These soldiers have families and loves ones who will likely go home dead and their kids of their kids grow the hate against other countries all because the leaders can't find the way to just make deals and agreements and then make money with what's on the table.

Germany has essentially vetoed the suggestion of excluding Russia from the Swift interbank system. Even Friedrich Merz the opposition of the German government had also opposed the suggestion. I think they already realized that Europe is dependent on Russia's oil and it will hit thier economy if something like that would happen.

Of course, the civilian population suffers first of all, the soldiers of the army of the country subjected to aggression, the infrastructure of the country subjected to aggression. These are forced victims, which, with aggression, cannot be avoided. On the other hand, there is the aggressor and his people. After all, it is not Putin who kills Ukrainians in Ukraine... Ukrainians are killed by ordinary residents of Russia. But what is their motivation is also a question. Someone really believes in the propaganda of Russian state channels... And very many, as it turns out, go to kill Ukrainians because... they have no income at home, they live very poorly, and they pay good money for killing their neighbors !!! Do you understand how much Russia is a totally degraded country, people, mentality and morality?!

Like any other race, none of us wishes the destruction of other countries. The movies we saw in Hollywood where Russians are all antagonists are just in movies, if they only stop doing that people will not see Russians that way. We keep creating movies where the Chinese are the antagonist, people are around the world will also be brainwashed that all Chinese are antagonists. Don't get influenced by those movies. As much as possible like any other race, we should preserve each other.

Every country has its own state channels actaully but I find the British, German, Polish, and Russian channels to have sync many times. 

[DrBeer]

Like any other race, none of us wishes the destruction of other countries. The movies we saw in Hollywood where Russians are all antagonists are just in movies, if they only stop doing that people will not see Russians that way. We keep creating movies where the Chinese are the antagonist, people are around the world will also be brainwashed that all Chinese are antagonists. Don't get influenced by those movies. As much as possible like any other race, we should preserve each other.

Every country has its own state channels actaully but I find the British, German, Polish, and Russian channels to have sync many times. 

I was born in the USSR, on the territory of today's Russia. I have relatives there. Until 2014 I went there. I have seen how people in Russia have been pumped up with propaganda since 2000. Working in a company in Donetsk, I saw how in 2010 they were already talking in full about the "Russian world", "under-Ukrainians", "take everything away and make Russia everywhere" ... I don't need about films. I saw how people's morality degraded, how propaganda corrupted their brains. They can talk to you about absolutely mutually exclusive things during one dialogue, and for them this is the norm, the main thing for them is to justify their actions and crimes in any way ...

[Sithara007]

Germany has essentially vetoed the suggestion of excluding Russia from the Swift interbank system. Even Friedrich Merz the opposition of the German government had also opposed the suggestion. I think they already realized that Europe is dependent on Russia's oil and it will hit thier economy if something like that would happen.

The stance from Germany is understandable. German industry is heavily dependent on natural gas from Russia, which flows through the Nord Stream pipeline. These industries will run in to losses, if they have to use the expensive LNG from United States or Qatar. The German companies have the choice to sell the cheap Russian piped gas at inflated spot rates to neighbors such as Poland, and they are benefitting now as the spot price is manytimes higher than the price of piped gas. And on top of that, the stupid Greens have forced all of the nuclear plants to close down.

[cabron]

Like any other race, none of us wishes the destruction of other countries. The movies we saw in Hollywood where Russians are all antagonists are just in movies, if they only stop doing that people will not see Russians that way. We keep creating movies where the Chinese are the antagonist, people are around the world will also be brainwashed that all Chinese are antagonists. Don't get influenced by those movies. As much as possible like any other race, we should preserve each other.

Every country has its own state channels actaully but I find the British, German, Polish, and Russian channels to have sync many times.  

I was born in the USSR, on the territory of today's Russia. I have relatives there. Until 2014 I went there. I have seen how people in Russia have been pumped up with propaganda since 2000. Working in a company in Donetsk, I saw how in 2010 they were already talking in full about the "Russian world", "under-Ukrainians", "take everything away and make Russia everywhere" ... I don't need about films. I saw how people's morality degraded, how propaganda corrupted their brains. They can talk to you about absolutely mutually exclusive things during one dialogue, and for them this is the norm, the main thing for them is to justify their actions and crimes in any way ...

Russia has explicitly told the world they have no plan of invading Ukraine. Why would they tell this to the world and to their people while doing the opposite?
Let's say Russia really will invade Ukraine. It's incredibly crazy that thier solution is to join Nato to start a war. So they better ask themselves how many times the US had "occupied" a country that ended up good?  It will only end up that the US will invade Ukraine and Russia to start harvesting the oil from that Nord Stream.

It's been clear they have been blocking the rise of China because of their influence in different countries through thier trade routes. Russia has only started its influence thru this Nord Stream, the US is now trying to block their rise too through sanctions such as this Swift.

Can't they just build something on their own in South America, Venezuela has lots of oil too, they should negotiate and build thier own if friendly competition is really what they are up to.

[stompix]

Let's say Russia really will invade Ukraine. It's incredibly crazy that thier solution is to join Nato to start a war. So they better ask themselves how many times the US had occupied a country that ended up good? 

A lot of times, you can look at West Germany and East Germany since we're talking about them. South Korea North Korea? Japan?
Also, there is a slight difference, the USA has never occupied and never left as Russia did, Russia still holds Kaliningrad, still holds Transnistria, why? And since we're at comparisons, what country that Russia has occupied has welcomed them a few years later or is not trying to distance themselves as much as they can? Can you point out a country that has become wealthy because of its alliance with Russia?
With the US, seems like even their former enemies are missing them when they realize the alternative is far worse if Vietnam welcomes US carriers in their ports, don't you think a lot have realized what you should also by now?

It will only end up that the US will invade Ukraine and Russia to start harvesting the oil from that Nord Stream.

Again brainwashing communist propaganda about the US wanting oil..
The US is the largest producer of oil, the US is exporting now gas to Europe, the US couldn't give a fuck about that gas when Apple alone has a revenue of 350 billion while Russia's total oil and gas exports were 150 billion.
Do these numbers finally get in your head the reality checked need to see what is the economical difference between these two?

[cabron]

Russia is maintaining that region for peacekeeping, if they are not present in that region minorities will just start a war of their own. Russia keeps the peace in the region and does not enforce thier own democracy because the majority of the people there are Ukrain and Russian speaking. Kaliningrad was a ruined city after the war and was rebuilt already thanks to Russia they help restore it back as they were before the war. The Russian never travel far going to the west for "peacekeeping" which I know this word will also be different when we talk about Iraq, Libya, Syria, or Afghanistan.

If there is any region that the US could easily help and take from Russia, its Kaliningrad and Transnistria so why Ukraine? Kaliningrad seems a progressive place already.

Gas price is very high in the US today. It's not a secret. I'm not sure if we can extract gas from apples but that should be a good option for the source.

[stompix]

Russia is maintaining that region for peacekeeping, if they are not present in that region minorities will just start a war of their own.

Bullshit and you know it! What minorities? Minorities created by Russia with forced relocations?
They brought in millions of Russians during the USSR times and know they claim they are defending their population, time for Spain to invade Argentina to protect the spanish people.

Russia keeps the peace in the region and does not enforce thier own democracy

Russia and democracy, what a joke, they enforce corruption and poverty

The Russian never travel far going to the west for "peacekeeping" which I know this word will also be different when we talk about Iraq, Libya, Syria, or Afghanistan.

Funny how the Russian army was present in all those countries, and before the US in all cases.

Gas price is very high in the US today. It's not a secret. I'm not sure if we can extract gas from apples but that should be a good option for the source.

Again, a reality check:
USA is becoming China's second-largest gas supplier!!
Seriously stop devouring RT's propaganda like there is no tomorrow and start asking yourself some common sense questions.

[cabron]

If the US worries so much about the Russian invasion, it's these Kaliningrad and Transnistria they should take. These places are very far from the Russian borders so why do they need Ukraine when they can get these Kaliningrad and Transnistria easily.  Not very close to its borders. There may not need for war for that.

NATO is very divided upon imposing this Swift sanction because the EU is not into it. EU knows it's not worth it with the US side. They know the US couldn't build projects that will benefit the economy of EU countries. The EU wouldn't need the US for oil soon so there goes the claim for being the largest.

[stompix]

If the US worries so much about the Russian invasion, it's these Kaliningrad and Transnistria they should take.

You see, this is the Russian mentality, for you, everything is about grabbing a club and taking what you want if somebody protests beat him to death or throw him from those Russian windows with 99% fatality rates.

EU knows it's not worth it with the US side. They know the US couldn't build projects that will benefit the economy of EU countries.

Of course, how could we compare the utopia Comecon created with the Marshall Plan?

In 2020, the U.S. investments made in Europe were valued at approximately 3.66 trillion U.S. dollars.

Again, reality check, that's nearly 3 times the GDP of Russia.

The EU wouldn't need the US for oil soon so there goes the claim for being the largest.

Next time please only bother to reply when you can say things that actually make sense.

[cabron]

The EU wouldn't need the US for oil soon so there goes the claim for being the largest.

Next time please only bother to reply when you can say things that actually make sense.

Because I don't really see the reason why they need to manufacture war over and over. When in fact Russia didn't want war. No one wants war. I hope the US will actually realize that there is no need for war. Unless of course, they want something from Russia which they could only achieve by launching a war. If they can't do it, they need a sanction that already failed.

They did this to Iraq claiming Saddam has weapons of mass destruction but in the end no weapon but his golden handgun. It's all lie. And this Ukraine invasion is also a lie.

[Fortify]

If you keep up with world news, you know there are some serious tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

Russia has shown several acts of aggression towards the people of Ukraine. Most notably the cyberattacks on Ukraine's power grid. Many think this was just a "practice run" aimed at perfecting these kinds of attacks for when they want to do some real damage.

In response to Russia's more recent actions, the United States proposed cutting Russia off from the SWIFT banking system should they mount any type of invasion on Ukraine. This would be detrimental to Russian businesses and consumers alike.

Assuming Russia has no intentions of invading Ukraine, there isn't really much to talk about. But what happens if they do?

Would it be political suicide? Would they develop their own banking/payment system? Would they look to an open-source monetary network?

I can't see Russia putting itself in a position to collapse its own economy. However, I also can't see Russia not harassing Ukraine.

Would our decentralized ledger be able to aid Russia in the event they are unable to use SWIFT?

There actually seems to be some backtracking on this threat and it could end up backfiring in the long run as well. If you cut off all Russian consumers and the Russian government away from the SWIFT system, you force them to implement another system - which plays right into Putin's hands. He is already super comfy and doesn't particularly care how this would damage the average Russian because he is able to effectively crush dissent at the moment and this sort of ban would give him more power over local transactions. You can also bet that the American controlled system is able to extract a lot of useful information from the billions of transactions that take place in this system every year, which might become unavailable if it was on another network.

[DrBeer]

Russia has explicitly told the world they have no plan of invading Ukraine. Why would they tell this to the world and to their people while doing the opposite?
Let's say Russia really will invade Ukraine. It's incredibly crazy that thier solution is to join Nato to start a war. So they better ask themselves how many times the US had "occupied" a country that ended up good?  It will only end up that the US will invade Ukraine and Russia to start harvesting the oil from that Nord Stream.

It's been clear they have been blocking the rise of China because of their influence in different countries through thier trade routes. Russia has only started its influence thru this Nord Stream, the US is now trying to block their rise too through sanctions such as this Swift.

Can't they just build something on their own in South America, Venezuela has lots of oil too, they should negotiate and build thier own if friendly competition is really what they are up to.

Let me remind you again - it was Russia that signed the treaty on ensuring the inviolability of Ukraine, as well as protecting its integrity, within the borders that were at the time of the signing of the Budapest Memorandum. There are more such examples, promises and even signings, and subsequent violations of these promises on the part of Russia than kept promises ....
The entire top of the Kremlin, all propaganda channels are hysterically yelling that Ukraine must be destroyed, that it should not exist, that some Russian speakers are suffering there! By the way, I am Russian by origin, a citizen of Ukraine, a Russian speaker But no one forbids me to communicate in my native language ... Now the rhetoric has changed - after Russia issued their passports on the temporarily occupied territory of the DPR / LPR, they will already hysteria that "they are obliged to protect OWN CITIZENS!". Their citizens on the territory of Ukraine!!! Maybe it is necessary to simply take them, their citizens, to their native territory?

Well, about the rest - you are just like the TASS news in the 70s - "insidious imperialists want to get our resources" )) You understand that having captured such a territory, its maintenance will result in huge costs. The US is cheaper and easier to PRINT OWN PAPERS, for which the Kremlin thieves sell all Russian resources, beautifully packaged, and asked where to deliver!

[Sithara007]

If the US worries so much about the Russian invasion, it's these Kaliningrad and Transnistria they should take. These places are very far from the Russian borders so why do they need Ukraine when they can get these Kaliningrad and Transnistria easily.  Not very close to its borders. There may not need for war for that.

NATO is very divided upon imposing this Swift sanction because the EU is not into it. EU knows it's not worth it with the US side. They know the US couldn't build projects that will benefit the economy of EU countries. The EU wouldn't need the US for oil soon so there goes the claim for being the largest.

All the best with Kaliningrad (Königsberg / Karaliaučius). That territory is home to some one million Russians and the Russian Baltic Fleet is based there (with additional garrisons at Baltiysk). Any attempt to take this territory will results in hundreds of thousands of deaths for the invading party. Neither the US, nor their allies in that region (Poland, Lithuania, Latvia.etc) are willing to take this risk. Transnistria is slightly less problematic, with a minimal Russian army contingent of <2,000 personal. But any attempt to invade that territory will result in Russia launching an all-out war against the invaders.

[aku_sultan20]

your thread is good bro, it is very interesting to discuss. Maybe this system has been used for a long time for cross-border transactions, WIFT stands for Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, this will be very helpful especially in my country, there are indeed many workers in foreign countries without have to go home first to just give money to his family, after crypto emerged I prefer this transaction which can be cheaper and faster and has no minimal fees so it's better than banking. Is your question political suicide or an open source monetary network? collect some information developments until this second tread continues developments must continue to be monitored from several media.
is there an information link from the thread you made before? or today's developments.thanks

[DrBeer]

If the US worries so much about the Russian invasion, it's these Kaliningrad and Transnistria they should take. These places are very far from the Russian borders so why do they need Ukraine when they can get these Kaliningrad and Transnistria easily.  Not very close to its borders. There may not need for war for that.

NATO is very divided upon imposing this Swift sanction because the EU is not into it. EU knows it's not worth it with the US side. They know the US couldn't build projects that will benefit the economy of EU countries. The EU wouldn't need the US for oil soon so there goes the claim for being the largest.

All the best with Kaliningrad (Königsberg / Karaliaučius). That territory is home to some one million Russians and the Russian Baltic Fleet is based there (with additional garrisons at Baltiysk). Any attempt to take this territory will results in hundreds of thousands of deaths for the invading party. Neither the US, nor their allies in that region (Poland, Lithuania, Latvia.etc) are willing to take this risk. Transnistria is slightly less problematic, with a minimal Russian army contingent of <2,000 personal. But any attempt to invade that territory will result in Russia launching an all-out war against the invaders.

You probably remember about such a country as the USSR. So, if we compare it with today's Russia, then its economy, industry, army, and share in the world economy were an order of magnitude stronger. It must be understood that today's Russia (from the point of view of the economy and industry) is "wearing things from the dead USSR." Today's Russia is much weaker economically, has a much weaker industrial base, which has been degrading in recent decades. No one will fight with full-scale hostilities, why ruin the lives of their citizens?! Simple economic sanctions killed a fairly powerful USSR. And to finish off this unsuccessful miscarriage of the USSR, with the same measures, is not a problem. Internal tension in the Russian Federation is high, the problems of the population are growing like a snowball, while every day on TV they talk about another victory of Putin over the "decaying West", and when they go to the store, seeing constantly rising prices and a global decline in the quality of goods and services, they understand that so far Putin is only defeating his own people ... It is enough to tighten the noose, and they themselves will demolish the regime ...

[fillippone]

Of course, every possible measure must be sure not to backfire against the US:

Wall Street Briefed by Biden Team on Possible Russia Sanctions

“Implications for global trade and the financial markets must be a major consideration for policy makers,” Tomasz Noetzel and Jonathan Tyce, analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, said in a research report. “Russia is one of the largest exporters of oil and gas, and relies on the system to settle dollar-denominated bills.”

Yeah right. The US cuts Russia from SWIFT system, European cannot pay for gases anymore, the Russians cut the gas, Europe die freezing… wonderful.

[Sithara007]

Yeah right. The US cuts Russia from SWIFT system, European cannot pay for gases anymore, the Russians cut the gas, Europe die freezing… wonderful.

Europeans created this trouble for themselves with their stupid tree hugging policies. First of all, they closed down the nuclear and thermal powerplants. And then they delayed the approval of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. BTW, it was a brilliant idea to set up wind turbines where there is not enough wind and solar panels in areas close to the Arctic circle. And now with their storage levels at all time low, they are provoking Russia. LNG cargoes from the United States are being diverted to East Asia, since the buyers there are offering higher prices. Once Russia turns off the gas supply to Europe, I expect spot LNG prices to climb to around $2,000 per thousand cubic meters.

[cabron]

Of course, every possible measure must be sure not to backfire against the US:

Wall Street Briefed by Biden Team on Possible Russia Sanctions

“Implications for global trade and the financial markets must be a major consideration for policy makers,” Tomasz Noetzel and Jonathan Tyce, analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, said in a research report. “Russia is one of the largest exporters of oil and gas, and relies on the system to settle dollar-denominated bills.”

Yeah right. The US cuts Russia from SWIFT system, European cannot pay for gases anymore, the Russians cut the gas, Europe die freezing… wonderful.

For Russia to be cut out of that SWIFT system, they'd have to agree among the NATO members who are trading partners with Russia which Germany and a few more countries didn't agree.  It's not happening because European countries are finding ways to have more trading partners close to China. European countries couldn't afford to lose the opportunities that China and Russia could give.

[DrBeer]

For Russia to be cut out of that SWIFT system, they'd have to agree among the NATO members who are trading partners with Russia which Germany and a few more countries didn't agree.  It's not happening because European countries are finding ways to have more trading partners close to China. European countries couldn't afford to lose the opportunities that China and Russia could give.

Question. Please list what Russia supplies to the world market, except for weapons, oil, gas, terrorism?
I am sure that Russia's withdrawal from the arms market, or at least a drop in supplies, will only play into the hands of the rest of the market players. And the resources ... Russia does not supply unique resources. Many people have oil and gas, it is only necessary to organize logistics ...
And if suddenly someone thinks that Russia supplies the world with unique goods / services / technologies - list them here Just do not attribute to Russia the technologies of the USSR, on which the entire industry of Russia has been based until today. By the way, if you study history, you will find out that most of these USSR, in those days, were simply stolen from the West
Understand a simple thing - Russia depends on Western goods and technologies, and not vice versa!

[Ozero]

Of course, every possible measure must be sure not to backfire against the US:

Wall Street Briefed by Biden Team on Possible Russia Sanctions

“Implications for global trade and the financial markets must be a major consideration for policy makers,” Tomasz Noetzel and Jonathan Tyce, analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, said in a research report. “Russia is one of the largest exporters of oil and gas, and relies on the system to settle dollar-denominated bills.”

Yeah right. The US cuts Russia from SWIFT system, European cannot pay for gases anymore, the Russians cut the gas, Europe die freezing… wonderful.

Europe will be able, with some losses, to reorient itself to other oil and gas markets, except for the Russian one, and they will also more intensively switch to alternative energy sources there. But when this happens, it will already be irreversible for Russia. If Russia loses the European market, it will also be a catastrophe for its economy. Moreover, in Europe, and so they intend to gradually abandon oil and gas in general due to global climate change.
If Russia is disconnected from the SWIFT international banking system, this will be a trigger for it, after which big problems will appear for it one after another, and I don’t know if the Russian economy will be able to survive then.

[stompix]

Yeah right. The US cuts Russia from SWIFT system, European cannot pay for gases anymore, the Russians cut the gas, Europe die freezing… wonderful.

That's now how it works, SWIFT is nothing but a message system that allows rapid settlement, you can still pay via a bank transfer even if those are not enrolled in the swift program, Rusia had just one bank for 5 years there and only after the fall of the soviet union, yet they were still processing payments, they were still selling gas and oil to Europe even before that.
It's not that Russian banks will be banned from interacting with European banks, it simply means they will have to run without the help of SWIFT, maybe revert to telex or carrier pigeons, half of the world doesn't even use it and they are still able to run trades.

Oh btw, you forgot the part of Russians dying of hunger before Europeans freeze since without selling gas they are penniless, they can't even import Italian caviar.

[oHnK]

Oh btw, you forgot the part of Russians dying of hunger before Europeans freeze since without selling gas they are penniless, they can't even import Italian caviar.

Agreed, the US policy on Russia with SWITCH is one that is unfair to both sides.  Their heated political conditions do not have to take policies that destroy the economy of innocent people.  Before the Europeans freeze to death, those in Russia will starve to death.  This is a sad condition.  Regarding Russia intervening and threatening to conduct very large-scale war games, this is also due to NATO.  If they had not grown up in Ukraine then Russia would not have been .

[DrBeer]

Oh btw, you forgot the part of Russians dying of hunger before Europeans freeze since without selling gas they are penniless, they can't even import Italian caviar.

Agreed, the US policy on Russia with SWITCH is one that is unfair to both sides.  Their heated political conditions do not have to take policies that destroy the economy of innocent people.  Before the Europeans freeze to death, those in Russia will starve to death.  This is a sad condition.  Regarding Russia intervening and threatening to conduct very large-scale war games, this is also due to NATO.  If they had not grown up in Ukraine then Russia would not have been .

It is very bad to use distorted or deliberately distorted information. As well as a broken causal relationship. I explain.

1. Let's start simple. EU and gas. Now for some reason you "confused" the essence of the problem. The problem is not that "people are freezing", but that someone has engaged in economic terrorism, and with particular cynicism, and covering it all with a huge layer of lies! They say in Russia that the EU does not order gas, that they have not heard about any short deliveries, everything is going on as before, they say “we have nothing to do with it, we don’t know anything, though if you don’t agree on SP2, we will further reduce gas supplies to the EU. So where is it?” real problem?
2. NATO. I'll just voice one fact: over the past 10 years, the number of NATO military contingents in the EU has decreased 10 times! Many structural subdivisions and units were disbanded... And now tell me - over the past 20 years, in the expanses of the post-USSR, who has ALWAYS been the aggressor and unleashed local conflicts? NATO?
And one more small question - who carries out terrorist attacks in other countries using chemical warfare agents? NATO? Ukraine?
I, as a resident of Ukraine, can say that until 2014, inside Ukraine, there were very few movements towards NATO! It was not an important or noticeable trend. But after it was Russia that violated the Budapest Memorandum, annexed Crimea, the LPR/DPR, Ukraine is FORCED to look for ways to protect its independence, the integrity of its territory. So who pushed Ukraine into NATO?

[fillippone]

With recent developments, there was a lot of chatter about this possibility.
Italy and Germany are against this possibility for the following reason.

• European firms wouldn’t be able to pay for the gas they need to purchase. Germany gets 55% of their gas from Russia, just to give you an idea.
• European companies spellings their goods in Russia, wouldn’t be able to get the payments for the goods they sold
• cutting Russia out of SWIFT would force them to create an alternative system. This would most certainly involve China. The creation of an alternative payment system alongside SWIFT (and, incidentally, Bitcoin) would imply a weakling of the dominant US position on international settlements. This would be an enormous cost 8n the future.

While the first reasons are quite trivial (I even discussed one of those in a previous post in this thread), the third comes quite new for me, and it is very interesting on a strategic point of view.
It also make clear because nation states will fight against bitcoin with all their forces.

[fillippone]

Apparently, EU block is leaning toward Russia Exclusion:

EU Edges Toward Supporting Expulsion of Russia From SWIFT System

The EU’s first two sanctions packages did little to deter Russian President Vladimir Putin from continuing his aggressive actions against Ukraine, leading the bloc to start work on a third package that may include the SWIFT provision, according to an official familiar with the plans. Opposition to the move has been decreasing, with France and Italy publicly expressing support. Germany has spoken out against the idea.

Apparently, Italy’s Draghi told Zalensky hes’t opposing the measure anymore.
This is a “nuclear option” that requires the unanimous approval by member State. Very difficult.

[mindrust]

Yeah right. The US cuts Russia from SWIFT system, European cannot pay for gases anymore, the Russians cut the gas, Europe die freezing… wonderful.

Europeans created this trouble for themselves with their stupid tree hugging policies. First of all, they closed down the nuclear and thermal powerplants. And then they delayed the approval of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. BTW, it was a brilliant idea to set up wind turbines where there is not enough wind and solar panels in areas close to the Arctic circle. And now with their storage levels at all time low, they are provoking Russia. LNG cargoes from the United States are being diverted to East Asia, since the buyers there are offering higher prices. Once Russia turns off the gas supply to Europe, I expect spot LNG prices to climb to around $2,000 per thousand cubic meters.

Soon Europeans will learn their energy don't come from unicorn farts. It is gas & oil that matters. Batteries, wind turbines, solar panels... these are all dead ends. Their maintenance costs money, they are not practical, they are not cheap to build , they are not even environment friendly as they say. All those dead lithium batteries will fuck the soil up.

[fillippone]

Soon Europeans will learn their energy don't come from unicorn farts. It is gas & oil that matters. Batteries, wind turbines, solar panels... these are all dead ends. Their maintenance costs money, they are not practical, they are not cheap to build , they are not even environment friendly as they say. All those dead lithium batteries will fuck the soil up.

I am astonished by the amount of intellectual dishonesty about Russian sanctions: economic sanctions, but not on the energy field. Ban from the rest of the world, but not from swift ( I have to see it to believe it).
The fun part is that Europeans caused their own problems banning nuclear…

[TheCoinGrabber]

Now it all makes sense. Two to three weeks ago we are all here talking about Russia's sudden softening towards Bitcoin and what could it mean for crypto. So this was why, they were planning a full-scale invasion and covering their backs in case they get blocked from using SWIFT. The question is, how effective would be a transition to using Bitcoin would be for them? Would it make up for losing SWIFT?