Mozilla says they'll accept Bitcoin & crypto donations

[PrimeNumber7]

To be frank, if you are complaining about the entity that you disclose your KYC information, in order to claim a tax deduction, or if you are wanting to not disclose your KYC information (which will result in you not receiving 50% of your donation back), you are just being stubborn.

But not if you live on country where donation to US-based organization isn't tax deductible. Why bother revealing my identity if i can't get tax deduction or only wanted to donate small amount of money?

or if you are wanting to not disclose your KYC information (which will result in you not receiving 50% of your donation back), you are just being stubborn.

And yet, if you look at the list of large donations for Tails (https://tails.boum.org/sponsors/index.en.html), there are dozens of large anonymous donations, including 300 Monero, 7 Bitcoin, and 50,000 euros. Since donations lower than $1,000 are not listed, there will be likely be hundreds more anonymous donations at these levels.

If you think paying to protect your privacy is stubborn, that's fine. You don't get to decide for everyone else though. People pay for VPNs, VPSs, email hosting, various pieces of software, entirely separate hardware and devices, etc., all in the name of protecting their privacy. If they want to protect their privacy by not claiming a few bucks of tax relief, then that's their prerogative. And of course, there are countries other than US which will have different laws and requirements regarding claiming tax relief.

All these other companies accept anonymous bitcoin and other crypto donations directly. There is no reason that Mozilla can't do the same.

If you donate under whatever bitpay's threshold is ($3000?), you do not have to disclose your identity (you have to provide your name, but it is in no way verified), nor create an account.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect to be able to donate 3 separate times, amounts near BitPay's limit before they make you verify your identity in order to donate. If you have that kind of money to donate, it is reasonable to expect the person is in a high tax bracket. So before you have been forced to verify your identity, you will have already given up thousands of dollars in reduced tax liability.

The cost of a VPN is generally in the range of $20-$40 per year. The annual cost of most other privacy measures is similarly nominal.

I don't think every donor that disclosed their identity for tax purposes is listed on that website. I would presume people have the option to not make their identity public, but still receive a receipt for their donation so they can receive a deduction for the donation.

[1714016842]

1714016842

[PrimeNumber7]

If you donate under whatever bitpay's threshold is ($3000?), you do not have to disclose your identity (you have to provide your name, but it is in no way verified), nor create an account.

No longer true, see https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kxhxv7/warning_bitpay_is_now_forcing_every_user_to_both/.

Just now, I was able to attempt to donate $2,500 to Mozilla by providing fake personal details. I was not asked to verify any of my information and was provided an address to donate/send to.

[o_e_l_e_o]

This is all ridiculous.

The faux outrage on Twitter was ridiculous. Any excuse to turn a blind eye to fossil fuels and a few billion barrels of oil being dumped in to the oceans, right? That's irrelevant, but as long as we get rid of the handful of bitcoin donations Mozilla were receiving then the planet has been saved! I can continue driving my gas guzzler to the store to buy goods flown in from the other side of the world which have been wrapped in explicable amounts of plastic, all of which I will dump in to a landfill or burn. Let's ignore all the actual evidence that bitcoin uses more green energy than pretty much any other industry in the world and actually incentivizes the development of more green infrastructure.

And Mozilla's response to this has been equally ridiculous. The fact that it seems the opinion of two people who are no longer involved in the project can dictate the direction of the project is very concerning. It also removes a source of funding, which Mozilla seem to desperately need since the number of active Firefox users has been steadily declining over the last few years.

Alternate browsers are all a mess. Chrome is literal spyware and I cannot fathom why millions of people freely install it on their system. You couldn't pay me to use a system with Chrome installed on it. Others like Edge and Safari are not much better. Brave is pretty much controlled by Binance and shares data with Binance, so is another no go if you want any shred of privacy left in your life. Tor is the only viable alternative, but the vast majority of people will refuse to use it for all the usual reasons.

Hopefully the recently announced DuckDuckGo desktop browser will be as good as their mobile one.

[dkbit98]

It's good news you didn't have any problem, even so i wouldn't take the risk. But didn't Mozilla paused ability to donate cryptocurrency at 5:30 PM · Jan 6, 2022 (a day before you made the donation)? See https://twitter.com/mozilla/status/1479143342495744009.

We should not be surprised for this change of heart from Mozilla, because we know there are a lot of people who really hate Bitcoin and anything related with crypto.
I think this was caused by one of their brainwashed developers or ex-developers Jamie Zawinski who said that cryptocurrencies are planet-incinerating ponzi's  
If he really believes that, than I am afraid there is not much hope for him left:
https://twitter.com/jwz/status/1478022085737803776

[PrimeNumber7]

No longer true, see https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/kxhxv7/warning_bitpay_is_now_forcing_every_user_to_both/.

Just now, I was able to attempt to donate $2,500 to Mozilla by providing fake personal details. I was not asked to verify any of my information and was provided an address to donate/send to.

It's good news you didn't have any problem, even so i wouldn't take the risk. But didn't Mozilla paused ability to donate cryptocurrency at 5:30 PM · Jan 6, 2022 (a day before you made the donation)? See https://twitter.com/mozilla/status/1479143342495744009.

For clarity, I did not actually donate, I was able to generate an invoice for a $2,500 donation, including a payment address and BTC amount to pay. If they provide a payment address, I think it is reasonable to believe they will accept the payment without requiring additional KYC validation.

I was able to repeat the above process just now, and I also just checked the donation link, and they still have crypto as a means to donate. My guess is they wrote that tweet in order to placate the libs.

This is all ridiculous.

The faux outrage on Twitter was ridiculous. --snip--

Mozilla didn't give up when UK government and ISP pressure to drop DNS-over-HTTPS (DoH) from Firefox, which eventually adopted by other browser as well. But now they paused cryptocurrency donation simply because outrage on Twitter. Not only ridiculous, it's a big step backward for Mozilla.

It doesn't appear they actually paused donations (although they may in the near future stop accepting crypto donations).

The outrage is around the impact that bitcoin has on the ability to implement the green new deal. Without bitcoin, implementing the green new deal would mean rolling blackouts wherever the GND is implemented, but with bitcoin, it would mean that bitcoin consumes all available energy

[PrimeNumber7]

I was able to repeat the above process just now, and I also just checked the donation link, and they still have crypto as a means to donate. My guess is they wrote that tweet in order to placate the libs.

But it's also possible they simply forget to make an update since they have Mozilla’s Climate Commitments.

It appears their "climate commitments" is a way to bribe left-wing interest groups enough so they are not attacked by left-wing radicals.

Mozilla has ~1000 employees, which appears to be remote (even before covid), so I really cannot imagine they ever had any meaningful carbon footprint.

[Beparanf]

 Besides the negative impact of Dogecoin to there crypto adaption. Mozilla is not much popular nowadays since Google dominate already the browser industry. And also they already stopped accepting cryptocurrency on there foundation after a lots of bashed they received on there tweets.

[o_e_l_e_o]

For clarity, I did not actually donate, I was able to generate an invoice for a $2,500 donation, including a payment address and BTC amount to pay. If they provide a payment address, I think it is reasonable to believe they will accept the payment without requiring additional KYC validation.

So a further look on Reddit leads me to believe that BitPay have different rules for donations or for purchases. There are users who, like you, are able to generate Mozilla donation addresses without KYC, while other users are still being met with demands for KYC to order a $10 pizza. It doesn't seem to be geographical, either.

It also seems that the whole backtracking thing has simply been to placate these Twitter trolls and their faux outrage, and they are continuing to actually accept bitcoin.

since Google dominate already the browser industry.

Google's ever increasing domination of the Internet should be a concern for everyone.

[PrimeNumber7]

For clarity, I did not actually donate, I was able to generate an invoice for a $2,500 donation, including a payment address and BTC amount to pay. If they provide a payment address, I think it is reasonable to believe they will accept the payment without requiring additional KYC validation.

So a further look on Reddit leads me to believe that BitPay have different rules for donations or for purchases. There are users who, like you, are able to generate Mozilla donation addresses without KYC, while other users are still being met with demands for KYC to order a $10 pizza. It doesn't seem to be geographical, either.

It also seems that the whole backtracking thing has simply been to placate these Twitter trolls and their faux outrage, and they are continuing to actually accept bitcoin.

I tried to generate a BitPay invoice while following the checkout process on ledger for what would have been a ~$150 invoice for something that would be shipped to me, and I was asked to login to my BitPay account (or alternatively sign up for a BitPay account). I was however able to generate a ~$10 invoice for a Private Internet Access subscription via BitPay without being asked to login to my BitPay account.

I would conclude that the ability to pay via BitPay without creating a BitPay account, depends, at least in part on the transaction amount. I would expect the threshold will differ depending on various factors, such as the type of merchant the product is being purchased from, and if the transaction is being sent to a charity (eg, if it is a donation). They likely also at least try to track if someone is trying to evade threshold restrictions by repeatedly creating invoices for under the threshold amount.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I was however able to generate a ~$10 invoice for a Private Internet Access subscription via BitPay without being asked to login to my BitPay account.

PIA has become a VPN to avoid at all costs since it was taken over by the incredibly shady and anti-privacy Kape Technologies, but it is still pretty hilarious that any company with "private" in their name would choose to use BitPay. A symbol of how far they have fallen, I guess.

I would conclude that the ability to pay via BitPay without creating a BitPay account, depends, at least in part on the transaction amount. I would expect the threshold will differ depending on various factors, such as the type of merchant the product is being purchased from, and if the transaction is being sent to a charity (eg, if it is a donation).

Perhaps as well if there is a physical product being shipped? It seems you were able to make a donation or sign up for a VPN subscription without being asked for KYC, but you and Reddit users are being asked for KYC for buying hardware wallets or pizza. I don't understand otherwise why they would allow a $2500 donation without KYC but refuse a $10 pizza.

[RapTarX]

I'm confused now; I didn't know whether Mozilla was accepting bitcoin for quite a long time now since 2014. Is it true? If it's, why this has created such chaos now on Twitter. Why didn't create that chaos long ago?

That's made me wonder what's the reason they accept cryptocurrency donation in the first place if they didn't thoughtfully consider according to their climate goals area.

Maybe for the same reason, Tesla started to accept Bitcoin & later stopped. BTW, there's a rumor ongoing that Tesla will accept DOGE now LOL.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm confused now; I didn't know whether Mozilla was accepting bitcoin for quite a long time now since 2014. Is it true? If it's, why this has created such chaos now on Twitter. Why didn't create that chaos long ago?

Mozilla made a tweet reminding everyone that they accept crypto, and the Twitter trolls lost their collective mind. People don't actually care, they just wanted to virtue signal that they were absolutely disgusted, all while using another platform which is pushing ahead with bitcoin integration (Twitter).

Maybe for the same reason, Tesla started to accept Bitcoin & later stopped. BTW, there's a rumor ongoing that Tesla will accept DOGE now LOL.

That's different. Tesla's rapidly flipping position is simply Elon Musk trying to manipulate the markets. Mozilla aren't trying to do that (and indeed, do not have the number of followers nor the right followers (i.e. morons) to do this).

[PrimeNumber7]

I was however able to generate a ~$10 invoice for a Private Internet Access subscription via BitPay without being asked to login to my BitPay account.

PIA has become a VPN to avoid at all costs since it was taken over by the incredibly shady and anti-privacy Kape Technologies, but it is still pretty hilarious that any company with "private" in their name would choose to use BitPay. A symbol of how far they have fallen, I guess.

BitPay is not their only payment provider. In addition to accepting BitPay, they also accept bitcoin from another payment provider, whose identity is unclear (it could be something they host themselves).

Based on some quick research, it does appear that Kape Technologies could be a shady company. Although it is unclear if the malware that was being distributed was created by them or if they were serving as somewhat of an app store without the code being reviewed by the company hosting the app store.

I would conclude that the ability to pay via BitPay without creating a BitPay account, depends, at least in part on the transaction amount. I would expect the threshold will differ depending on various factors, such as the type of merchant the product is being purchased from, and if the transaction is being sent to a charity (eg, if it is a donation).

Perhaps as well if there is a physical product being shipped? It seems you were able to make a donation or sign up for a VPN subscription without being asked for KYC, but you and Reddit users are being asked for KYC for buying hardware wallets or pizza. I don't understand otherwise why they would allow a $2500 donation without KYC but refuse a $10 pizza.

In your example of BitPay requiring KYC for a $10 pizza, was the person trying to buy a gift card to a pizza chain (presumably with the intention of using the gift card to buy pizza)? Or were they trying to buy a pizza from the pizza chain, using BitPay as a payment provider?

The difference is important. Gift cards are similar to cash and have money laundering-related risks that cash has. While it is usually trivial to sell and transfer a gift card, it is not trival to resell a pizza (pizza has a short shelf life once cooked), or a VPN subscription.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Based on some quick research, it does appear that Kape Technologies could be a shady company. Although it is unclear if the malware that was being distributed was created by them or if they were serving as somewhat of an app store without the code being reviewed by the company hosting the app store.

I made a post about Kape a few months ago here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58547859#msg58547859. As I say in that post, whether or not they were personally responsible for the malware is more or less irrelevant. There are plenty of other very compelling reasons that you should under no circumstances use any of their products or those of their subsidiaries.

In your example of BitPay requiring KYC for a $10 pizza, was the person trying to buy a gift card to a pizza chain (presumably with the intention of using the gift card to buy pizza)? Or were they trying to buy a pizza from the pizza chain, using BitPay as a payment provider?

They were trying to buy real food.

The site in question is https://www.thuisbezorgd.nl. This is the same company which runs Grubhub in the states, Menulog in Australia/NZ, and Takeaway.com/Just Eat across the rest of Europe. You can try it out yourself (English language version available from the menu in the top right) with fake details. Even an order for under 10 euros requires a KYCed BitPay account.

[PrimeNumber7]

Based on some quick research, it does appear that Kape Technologies could be a shady company. Although it is unclear if the malware that was being distributed was created by them or if they were serving as somewhat of an app store without the code being reviewed by the company hosting the app store.

I made a post about Kape a few months ago here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58547859#msg58547859. As I say in that post, whether or not they were personally responsible for the malware is more or less irrelevant. There are plenty of other very compelling reasons that you should under no circumstances use any of their products or those of their subsidiaries.

The data you cited they collect is likely for diagnostic purposes to address any problems with their service. None of the data they collect can be traced back to the end-user individually.

In your example of BitPay requiring KYC for a $10 pizza, was the person trying to buy a gift card to a pizza chain (presumably with the intention of using the gift card to buy pizza)? Or were they trying to buy a pizza from the pizza chain, using BitPay as a payment provider?

They were trying to buy real food.

The site in question is https://www.thuisbezorgd.nl. This is the same company which runs Grubhub in the states, Menulog in Australia/NZ, and Takeaway.com/Just Eat across the rest of Europe. You can try it out yourself (English language version available from the menu in the top right) with fake details. Even an order for under 10 euros requires a KYCed BitPay account.

Yes, I was asked to sign into a BitPay account in order to see/pay the invoice. I am not sure why there is a difference in user experience. It is possible it has something to do with the fact that restaurants tend to deal with a lot of cash, and businesses that deal with a lot of cash tend to be a higher risk of money laundering.

I would point out that BitPay has said, as recently as last month that customers making payments under $3,000 do not need to provide KYC verification, and only need to verify their email address.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The data you cited they collect is likely for diagnostic purposes to address any problems with their service. None of the data they collect can be traced back to the end-user individually.

You're sure about that? You are going to take the word of company which deliberately infected its own customers with malware? Pretty sure that wasn't in their terms of service.

And even if you believe that, some of the data they are collecting - name, address, battery level, gyro-sensor data - is in no way useful from a diagnostics point of view and would only ever serve to invade your privacy.

I would point out that BitPay has said, as recently as last month that customers making payments under $3,000 do not need to provide KYC verification, and only need to verify their email address.

Until they decide that your payment has triggered one of their hidden algorithms and refuse to process it until you complete KYC.

It's the same as using a non-KYC centralized exchange. You are only non-KYCed as long as they allow you to be, and that could end at any time without warning and result in the seizure or loss of your funds if you don't comply. If you want to avoid KYC, you choose a DEX. If you want to avoid KYC, you don't choose BitPay.

[dkbit98]

Unfortunately my prediction was right.

Oh please don't get me started with that topic, and if Mozilla really cared about that they should not allow donations in fiat currencies coming from military industrial complex.
They made a mess with starting to support all kinds of shitcoins like doge, instead of just accepting Bitcoin and Lightning Network, if they care so much, and they don't but they just cracked under pressure because they are weak.

You're sure about that? You are going to take the word of company which deliberately infected its own customers with malware? Pretty sure that wasn't in their terms of service.

I think that healthy dose of skepticism about trusting any company or government system is good, especially if we blindly tell us to trust something without doing our own investigation.
Is it possible to live in today modern world with total privacy and security?
No, but that doesn't mean I should sign up and send my information everywhere without any thinking.
If there is a option for doing the same thing without any kyc, I would always go for that option, even if it means some inconvenience for me.

It's the same as using a non-KYC centralized exchange. You are only non-KYCed as long as they allow you to be, and that could end at any time without warning and result in the seizure or loss of your funds if you don't comply. If you want to avoid KYC, you choose a DEX. If you want to avoid KYC, you don't choose BitPay.

More people that use DEX exchanges it would be harder for centralized exchanges to ''piss'' on everyone and do whatever they like until regulators twist their arm.

[PrimeNumber7]

I was able to repeat the above process just now, and I also just checked the donation link, and they still have crypto as a means to donate. My guess is they wrote that tweet in order to placate the libs.

But it's also possible they simply forget to make an update since they have Mozilla’s Climate Commitments.

Unfortunately my prediction was right.

Can I donate Cryptocurrencies?

No. As of January 2022, the Mozilla Foundation is reviewing its cryptocurrency policy and its alignment with our climate change commitments. We have paused cryptocurrency donations during this time.

Yes, sadly, it appears Mozilla has stopped accepting crypto donations.

I made a post about Kape a few months ago here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5372131.msg58547859#msg58547859. As I say in that post, whether or not they were personally responsible for the malware is more or less irrelevant. There are plenty of other very compelling reasons that you should under no circumstances use any of their products or those of their subsidiaries.

The data you cited they collect is likely for diagnostic purposes to address any problems with their service.

These article provide more details of Kape Technologies,
https://restoreprivacy.com/kape-technologies-owns-expressvpn-cyberghost-pia-zenmate-vpn-review-sites/
<>
Whether you decide to trust them or not, there are many VPN provider with better history/privacy policy, so there's no reason to use VPN owned by Kape.

If you ask me, the article you cited (and the one I left in my quote of your post), is more of a defense of Kape, than an indictment.

For example, the article says:

While many outlets attributed this “Crossrider malware” to the people/business behind Crossrider itself, the truth is that Crossrider never created malware. Instead, the Crossrider platform was abused by third parties to spread malware and adware.

<>
Crossrider completely shut down the program in 2016, changed out the company’s leadership, and pivoted to the privacy and security niche.

So they were distributing software the same way that the Apple app store distributes iPhone apps, except without the same standards checks that apple puts through software that is distributed on its app store. After the software distribution venture was shut down, they changed out their management.

One of their owners may have ties to Isreali spy agencies, but this is not proof of anything. Kape also is effectively buying reviews, which is very shady, and while not explicit evidence they are spying on their users, it may be implicit evidence they should not be trusted.

The data you cited they collect is likely for diagnostic purposes to address any problems with their service. None of the data they collect can be traced back to the end-user individually.

You're sure about that? You are going to take the word of company which deliberately infected its own customers with malware? Pretty sure that wasn't in their terms of service.

I would say that Kape distributed malware the same way that theymos promotes the idea that CSW is satoshi -- by hosting a platform in which 3rd parties can post content, even if some people do not like the content.

I am not aware of any evidence that Kape actually created any malware, or that there was malware in any of their software -- the malware was in software distributed on their platform. After the original Napster was shutdown in 2001, there were a various number of torrent-like platforms that allowed people to download what amounted to pirated music (and movies?). Sometimes, people would share malware disguised as a popular song or video -- in these cases, the torrent platform was not distributing the malware. There are various messages in various transactions and in block headers in the bitcoin blockchain, these messages are not being distributed by "bitcoin", nor are they being distributed by the devs who create bitcoin core.

And even if you believe that, some of the data they are collecting - name, address, battery level, gyro-sensor data - is in no way useful from a diagnostics point of view and would only ever serve to invade your privacy.

If you are paying via the legacy banking system, you really cannot not give your name and address to the merchant (or prevent it from being easily available to the merchant). If you are paying via crypto, it would be trivial to provide fake details.

If you are using an app on your phone, any potential input can potentially cause problems. Unless you expect someone to cross-reference satellite images of people spinning while looking at their phones to their gyro-sensor data, providing this data is not going to result in any loss of privacy.

It's the same as using a non-KYC centralized exchange. You are only non-KYCed as long as they allow you to be, and that could end at any time without warning and result in the seizure or loss of your funds if you don't comply. If you want to avoid KYC, you choose a DEX. If you want to avoid KYC, you don't choose BitPay.

It is not possible to reliably convert fiat to coin or coin to fiat via a DEX. You will ultimately need a centralized exchange with a payment provider, or accept an elevated risk of being scammed (by someone who is not the exchange).

[o_e_l_e_o]

I am not aware of any evidence that Kape actually created any malware

As I said before, I find it irrelevant. Either way, they were allowing their paying customers to be infected with malware. This is significantly different to the analogy you give you people downloading malware via a torrent. This company was doing zero due diligence to the product they were offering consumers.

If you are paying via the legacy banking system, you really cannot not give your name and address to the merchant (or prevent it from being easily available to the merchant).

If the VPN doesn't offer crypto payments, then I wouldn't be using it.

Unless you expect someone to cross-reference satellite images of people spinning while looking at their phones to their gyro-sensor data, providing this data is not going to result in any loss of privacy.

So it's fine for your VPN to collect a bunch of data unnecessary data on you if they aren't going to use it to invade your privacy? I don't accept that reasoning for a second.

It is not possible to reliably convert fiat to coin or coin to fiat via a DEX.

I've been doing this for years.

[dkbit98]

It is not possible to reliably convert fiat to coin or coin to fiat via a DEX. You will ultimately need a centralized exchange with a payment provider, or accept an elevated risk of being scammed (by someone who is not the exchange).

It is totally possible with Bisq exchange, and if done correctly it can be even more reliable, because you can't get your account terminated or coins frozen, like in centralized exchanges.
You are not sending any documents for verification so there is nothing to leak and you are much safer there.
I read report how criminals in Croatia used only centralized exchanges like Binance for scamming people, they use Anydesk to gain access to computers of people,
than they send fiat money to Binance exchange, and then buy crypto and withdraw it to their own wallet.
It's really happening now, it's not a theory.