Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[tvbcof]

...
I took you off ignore to see if you had anything intelligent to add, but, nope.

Nope.  I didn't transform into a state department shill in one short month.  Put me back on your ignore list and check back in 20 years.

Not the ones in Azovstal for what I know. I may be wrong, but they knew where they were getting into and had chances to fly. The one's that surrendered in Mariupol's port belonged to a different contingent, and, to be honest, had a worse terrain to defend.

Oh, I see:

Steel mill Azov:


Port Azov:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrU0Y_2eU8I

Please, do not get me wrong, these people are not super-human, they die and need food and water, but they are quite peculiar in terms of their moral and will to fight. The longer they pin the Russian army, the more chances Ukraine has to use the West's aid.

Lol.  I hope if I ever get 'pinned down' in combat it is in the way Azov and associated mercenaries pinned down the Chechens in Mariupol.

I'm guessing that for to long the 'defenders' believed the stories about a Ukrainian breakthrough to save their asses, and probably thought that with the Western mercenaries among them, the West would somehow come to the rescue.  The joke is on them because the only people who would like to see them dead more than Russia would be Zelenski and their Jewish oligarch sponsors (edit: and U.S. state department Jews such as Victoria Nudelman-Kagan) who have been paying them for a decade for just this day.

Takes a lot of 'character' to justify the use of human shields just to maybe give a little more time for Western weapons to come in to some other part of the country.  I will give you that.

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[TwitchySeal]

...
I took you off ignore to see if you had anything intelligent to add, but, nope.

Nope.  I didn't transform into a state department shill in one short month.  Put me back on your ignore list and check back in 20 years.

Not the ones in Azovstal for what I know. I may be wrong, but they knew where they were getting into and had chances to fly. The one's that surrendered in Mariupol's port belonged to a different contingent, and, to be honest, had a worse terrain to defend.

Oh, I see:

Steel mill Azov:


Port Azov:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrU0Y_2eU8I

Please, do not get me wrong, these people are not super-human, they die and need food and water, but they are quite peculiar in terms of their moral and will to fight. The longer they pin the Russian army, the more chances Ukraine has to use the West's aid.

Lol.  I hope if I ever get 'pinned down' in combat it is in the way Azov and associated mercenaries pinned down the Chechens in Mariupol.

I'm guessing that for to long the 'defenders' believed the stories about a Ukrainian breakthrough to save their asses, and probably thought that with the Western mercenaries among them, the West would somehow come to the rescue.  The joke is on them because the only people who would like to see them dead more than Russia would be Zelenski and their Jewish oligarch sponsors (edit: and U.S. state department Jews such as Victoria Nudelman-Kagan) who have been paying them for a decade for just this day.

Takes a lot of 'character' to justify the use of human shields just to maybe give a little more time for Western weapons to come in to some other part of the country.  I will give you that.

It's pretty ironic that the far right/pro putin groups from the west have fallen for the Russian propaganda line justifying the attack because there are far right groups fighting for Ukraine.

You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

[be.open]

You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

There is a nuance, the Nazi battalion Azov is part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a regular unit. Before you publicly justify the Nazis, think twice - whether you are fighting in the wrong direction.

[tvbcof]

...
You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

I don't care for either of them.  They are both just sock-puppets animated and funded by the same group near the top of the pyramid.  The 'Russians' also BTW.

[TwitchySeal]

You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

There is a nuance, the Nazi battalion Azov is part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a regular unit. Before you publicly justify the Nazis, think twice - whether you are fighting in the wrong direction.

And how are you justifying the Nazis leading and fighting for the DPR and LPR?  These are Nazis with actual political power with Putins full support.  What's the difference in Russian Nazis and Ukrainian Nazis? (Other than Russian Nazis have political office and Ukrainian Nazis don't)

[Tash]

...
You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

I don't care for either of them.  They are both just sock-puppets animated and funded by the same group near the top of the pyramid.  The 'Russians' also BTW.

True to the heart Bitcoiners don't care, they are "kings" in the own right and equal to all sock-puppets.
Sh!itcoiners will never get grip of it, it is way beyond there horizion.
It was clear from the beginning the Azov fools got sold out (sacrificed) by Zelenskyy from the get go.
Same same as always it is not | vs | but ‾ vs _

[suchmoon]

True to the heart Bitcoiners

True bitcoiners would never praise totalitarian nutjobs, like you always do. Freedom used to be universally desired until your generation of intertubes-brainwashed zombies pretending that their incoherent ramblings matter more than facts.

[Veleor]

It is likely that Russia may exaggerate its achievements in terms of the number of destroyed Ukrainian military equipment.

Exaggerate LOL. Some other "exaggerations":

1. Just military training, definitely not invasion.
2. Entire Ukrainian air force and AA defense was allegedly destroyed but continues to function two months later.
3. Russian soldiers came to "liberate" but instead killed civilians and looted homes.
4. 30 biolabs developing military geese and pigeon corps.
5. Russia "defending" Donbas but killing predominantly Russian-speaking Donbas population.
6. The flagship randomly catches fire because it can't possibly be that the non-existent Bayraktars and non-existent Ukrainian anti-ship missiles could have something to do with it.
7. But by all means, keep looking for excuses for Russian propaganda lies.

suchmoon, I numbered the paragraphs in your message for detailed analysis and easier commenting.

1. "Just military training, definitely not invasion"
The Russian leadership deceived everyone in early February 2022 that they were just conducting military training and were not going to attack. But what does this lie have to do with the topic of the achievements of the Russian army in Ukraine? Most likely, the plan and the exact date of the invasion were known to a limited circle of people in the Kremlin. This lie partially explains why the statements of the Russian high command are not trusted. However, this doesn't mean that the statements of all Russian officials are now a priori false. Of course, they need additional verification, but it is also impossible to completely discard them as unreliable.

2. "Entire Ukrainian air force and AA defense was allegedly destroyed but continues to function two months later".
Please indicate your source, according to which the Russian military said about the "entire destruction" of Ukrainian air force.
As far as I know, the Russian General Staff didn't report such a thing. It is necessary to take into account every word in official statements in order to avoid false interpretations.
On March 25, 2022, Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy told reporters: "At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed. The country's naval forces have ceased to exist".
Further in the same article, the number of destroyed and remaining Ukrainian military equipment is given:

Code:

"The Russian military destroyed [...] 112 out of 152 aircraft, 75 helicopters out of 149,
148 air defense systems S-300 and Buk M1 out of 180 [...]"

For those who doubt that the Russian army now has an advantage in the air, I recommend to read the article in the Insider magazine dated April 16, 2022.
"Ukrainian pilots launch 'Buy Me A Jet' campaign to help defeat Russia's massive air superiority"
By the way, a video was posted in this article, and attentive users noticed that at 01:15 a Ukrainian pilot wears a Black Sun chevron, which refers to Nazi symbols.



3. "Russian soldiers came to "liberate" but instead killed civilians and looted homes".
Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
Note:

Code:

14.04.2022 | "The UK, Canada, Poland and Spain have condemned Russian military action as genocide,
while France, Germany and leaders of the EU who visited Kyiv last week have refrained from the outright use of the word".

According to the UN, from February 24 to April 15, 2022, 1982 civilians died in Ukraine.
You can compare this information with the data from the Iraq War because it is well known. This statistic is consistent with the Statista website.
The war in Iraq began on March 20, 2003. In Iraq 7434 citizens died after 42 days (from March 20 to May 1 in 2003).
In the early days of the war in Iraq, more than three times as many people died as in Ukraine. But, as far as I know, the world community has not condemned the United States for the targeted extermination of Iraqi civilians.



On the issue of statistics, it must be taken into account that complete chaos is happening in Ukraine now. There is already a documented case of how Ukrainian Territorial Defense fighters, while under the influence of drugs, shot a 12-year-old Ukrainian boy and wounded his friend, thinking that they were Russian saboteurs. This is to the words of some users that civilians in Ukraine allegedly do not die at the hands of their military. It is still in question to which side these victims will be attributed. And there is a high risk that such cases will continue, since in Ukraine thousands of machine guns were distributed to volunteers and, moreover, Ukrainian prisoners were released so that they would go to war with the Russian army.

4. "30 biolabs developing military geese and pigeon corps".
You distorted the original statement of the Representative of Russia to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya. On March 11, he made the statement:

Code:

The Russian Federation’s military became aware of a programme that has the goal of studying
the possibility of spreading infections using migratory birds, including H5N1 and the Newcastle disease.

Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?

5. "Russia "defending" Donbas but killing predominantly Russian-speaking Donbas population".
This is a very serious accusation. What are you basing it on?
According to the French war reporter Anne-Laure Bonnel during an interview with a French TV channel, it was not Russia, but the Ukrainian government that bombed its own population in the Donbass.

Code:

"... The Donbass population, in 2014, has been targeted by its own government.
The Kiev government has bombarded the Russian-speaking population.
Yes. I have all the necessary proofs, which I can provide you when I return to France;
I have the photographs, and I have a video (documentary) about it... it's undeniable".

6. "The flagship randomly catches fire because it can't possibly be that the non-existent Bayraktars and non-existent Ukrainian anti-ship missiles could have something to do with it".
Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank. Personally, I believe that the probable cause of the explosion, in addition to the version with Ukrainian Neptune missiles, could be sabotage by one of the team members, since I see no particular reason for Russia to deny the Ukrainian missile attack (if there really was one) as the cause of the sinking. Because Russia previously admitted that the Ukrainian Armed Forces damaged the Russian large landing ship "Saratov".
Ukrainian officials claimed that the Bayraktars diverted the air defense of the Moscow cruiser, and this video indirectly confirms it. However, the video doesn't show the burning cruiser Moscow, but a fire on a Tanzanian ship in 2019.



7. "But by all means, keep looking for excuses for Russian propaganda lies".
Do not confuse excuses with an attempt to understand the current situation, when a lot of fake information is published.

[Hetadrop]

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I have a very bad news for you but Putin has officially hired Nazis to fight for him long ago.


A very famous Nazi group of Russia's Troops are German Nazi entrepreneurs participating in Putins wars again and again. It's Wagner group and was involved already in Syria to keep Despot Assad in power and Putin hired Wagner's troops. Wagner's Nazi troops are officially emplayed by Russian govt.
CEO of Wagner group is currently Dmitriy Utkin, a Russian Nazi: https://www.italy24news.com/world/391586.html

In 2022 images surfaced of Utkin purportedly showing Waffen SS collar tab and Reichsadler Eagle tattoos on his collar and chest. Additionally, several prominent members of the Wagner group have been photographed or recorded in Nazi uniforms or taking part in re-enactments of WWII events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

You can look at Google pictures, Dmitriy Utkin, a russian Nazi, is glorifying german Nazi symbolism and ideology.


Yes, Nazis are officially hired by Putin's govt. 

[Toughit]

What is the definition of a Nazi as used in the postings in this thread?

I admit to only 'lightly' know a Hitler type Nazi, but surely that has changed in 80 years?

(although the portable crematoriums used in Ukraine by the Russians gives me pause to think)

[suchmoon]

1. "Just military training, definitely not invasion"
But what does this lie have to do with

Moving the goalposts. My statement was that Russian propaganda is blatantly lying (as opposed to "exaggerating") and this is one example of such.

2. "Entire Ukrainian air force and AA defense was allegedly destroyed but continues to function two months later".
"At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed"

Ok, I'll give you translation of "пpaктичecки" as "almost", even though it's typical propaganda nonsense.

Nazi symbols.

Whataboutism. Should I post that RT video now about "children with white skin"?

3. "Russian soldiers came to "liberate" but instead killed civilians and looted homes".
Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.

Straw man - I'm not talking about the definition of genocide. I'm talking about civilians being killed by Russian soldiers in occupied territories. Lots of proof of that, which Russian propaganda labelled as fake, up to and including drone videos and satellite photos, we've been through that. You can keep claiming it's fake but to any reasonable person it's reasonable evidence of killing civilians.

Looting has also been widely documented, including Russian soldiers shipping the "goods" home from Belarus.

According to the UN, from February 24 to April 15, 2022, 1982 civilians died in Ukraine.
You can compare this information with the data from the Iraq War because it is well known. This statistic is consistent with the Statista website.
The war in Iraq began on March 20, 2003. In Iraq 7434 citizens died after 42 days (from March 20 to May 1 in 2003).
In the early days of the war in Iraq, more than three times as many people died as in Ukraine. But, as far as I know, the world community has not condemned the United States for the targeted extermination of Iraqi civilians.

Straw man. Also when everything is counted, Ukrainian civilian deaths are likely to be higher than that (20 thousand estimated dead in Mariupol alone), as if that somehow makes Russian propaganda more truthful  

4. "30 biolabs developing military geese and pigeon corps".
You distorted the original statement of the Representative of Russia to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya. On March 11, he made the statement:

Code:

The Russian Federation’s military became aware of a programme that has the goal of studying
the possibility of spreading infections using migratory birds, including H5N1 and the Newcastle disease.

Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?

A twofer - burden of proof / tu quoque. The Russian side presented a load of bullshit to put it mildly. There are plenty of fact checks on that, such as:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60711705

5. "Russia "defending" Donbas but killing predominantly Russian-speaking Donbas population".
This is a very serious accusation. What are you basing it on?

Mariupol.

6. "The flagship randomly catches fire because it can't possibly be that the non-existent Bayraktars and non-existent Ukrainian anti-ship missiles could have something to do with it".
Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank.

That was on the 14th. Now it's confirmed: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3269904-pentagon-backs-ukraines-claim-it-hit-russian-warship-with-two-missiles/

7. "But by all means, keep looking for excuses for Russian propaganda lies".
Do not confuse excuses with an attempt to understand the current situation, when a lot of fake information is published.

You're going too far out of your way trying to justify for Russian propaganda lies. To me this seems more like an attempt to muddy the water than an attempt "to understand".

[TwitchySeal]

I'm just going to pick one and cherry pick your already picked cherries:

3. "Russian soldiers came to "liberate" but instead killed civilians and looted homes".
Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
Note:

Code:

14.04.2022 | "The UK, Canada, Poland and Spain have condemned Russian military action as genocide,
while France, Germany and leaders of the EU who visited Kyiv last week have refrained from the outright use of the word".

According to the UN, from February 24 to April 15, 2022, 1982 civilians died in Ukraine.
You can compare this information with the data from the Iraq War because it is well known. This statistic is consistent with the Statista website.
The war in Iraq began on March 20, 2003. In Iraq 7434 citizens died after 42 days (from March 20 to May 1 in 2003).
In the early days of the war in Iraq, more than three times as many people died as in Ukraine. But, as far as I know, the world community has not condemned the United States for the targeted extermination of Iraqi civilians.

Literally every UN update on death count explicitly says the numbers they are providing are only confirmed deaths, and they expect the actual number to be much higher.  They aren't even counting the major cities that have basically been destroyed over the past 2 months.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/04/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-11-april-2022

I'm trying to think of a way that your argument isn't being made in bad faith, and I can't.  You obviously have access to the internet and UN reports.  You obviously know the war is still going on, making it impossible to know the actual number of dead civilians.  And you don't seem like a retard that doesn't understand the difference between 'confirmed deaths' and the actual number of deaths.  

[LTU_btc]

As Zinaida Gipius said, "if you need to explain, then you don't need to explain".

So, ok, Arestovich said this stuff about Zelensky few years ago. There was lot of things said about him before and after elections from public person in Ukraine. But does all these things matters now after few years?

Maybe you want something fresher? The 52nd day of the special operation, President Zelensky of Ukraine appears to be pretty drunk or under the influence of drugs. The video seems to be a deepfake, but the link is to Zelensky's official Instagram lol.

What a classic . Zelensky addicted to drugs or alcochol. Putin already called Kiev as gang of drug addicts, nothing surprising that you use this nareative.

[paxmao]

What is the definition of a Nazi as used in the postings in this thread?

I admit to only 'lightly' know a Hitler type Nazi, but surely that has changed in 80 years?

(although the portable crematoriums used in Ukraine by the Russians gives me pause to think)

According to the Kremlin Trolls here, anything that gets hit by Putin's weaponry. For example, a maternity hospital is hit = it was full of Nazis. Civilians on a mass grave? nope, Nazis. Troops defending their country, nope, Nazis.

It is just a excuse, not a real reason for the war whatsoever. Putin could not care less about the ideology of his victims.

...
Oh, I see:

Steel mill Azov:

...

As said, whatever their reasons, they are the troops that are less likely to give in.

Sure, we all know that Putin would not be attacking Mariupol if it were defended by someone else, right??. As far as I am concerned, the "nazi" argument is irrelevant for this war but if you want to open that box, let's go:

- Hitler reached power being voted and then used the estate power to kill and ban his political enemies.
- Hitler assumed Arian supremacy as a principle.
- Hitler impeded free speech and incarcerated anyone who spoke against.
- Hitler looked for an enemy to blame for Germany's problems (Jews).
- Hitler used the army to invade his neighbours, mostly pacific ones.
- Hitler tried to impose his despotic model on the conquered, using dummies (e.g. French gov in Vichy).
- Hitler threated democracies and ended up in conflict with France, US, UK.

Now, change Hitler for Putin, Arian for Russian, Germany for Russia, Vichy for Belorussia and, curiously, Jews for Nazis and you will see who is actually the Nazi here.

a) The US intelligence service is collaborating with Ukraine to a very large extent, even when planning strategies and tactics.
b) The US intelligence service has in-depth understanding of the naval defence systems on Russian Navy and seems to have analysed their weaknesses perfectly.
c) Putin cannot put any short of faith in a sea launched attack or support.
d) The real effectiveness of the Russian fleet may be well below what Putin generals are counting on, not just on this particular case.

Don't forget the Ukrainian postal service. They must have had a hand in this, timed it perfectly as a promotion for the postal stamp - can't be a coincidence

Seriously though, the ship was built in Ukraine and its defensive stuff is similar to the ground systems used by Ukraine (e.g. C300) so I wouldn't overestimate the US "help"... albeit some satellite and Global Hawk surveillance probably helped.

Edit - some unconfirmed pictures are showing up on twitface: https://twitter.com/osinttechnical

Not that there was any doubt about the "storm" and "waves" that sank it but yeah... there is no storm. Just cloudy.

The ship was effectively assembled in Ukraine yes - I can put a SIM card in a cell phone (in most anyway), but I do not know the details of any of them and, after a couple of Google updates (in this case, RF updates), I am certainly completely unaware of what may be happening inside.

There are three systems of defence, four against planes. These include the one you mention that is ineffective for low altitude (50 feet) flying missiles, however the second set of missiles and the Gatling guns were also voided.

It is anything but easy to sink a Cruise the way it has happened. The way the defences were penetrated requires an in depth knowledge of their behaviour, knowledge of the precise location, knowledge of the best moment to attack and how. As said, I have no proof, but I do not think I am putting forward a conspiracy theory, just saying that Ukraine is getting a level of intel and support that goes beyond passing all the info from the AWACS that are flying continuously in all OTAN borders.

I guess that the new Russian habitat for coralline species recently created is the only "proof" I can offer, but certainly a high level of intel coming from the US on this precise strike seems very likely.

Please, do not get me wrong, these people are not super-human, they die and need food and water, but they are quite peculiar in terms of their moral and will to fight. The longer they pin the Russian army, the more chances Ukraine has to use the West's aid.

Lol.  I hope if I ever get 'pinned down' in combat it is in the way Azov and associated mercenaries pinned down the Chechens in Mariupol.

I'm guessing that for to long the 'defenders' believed the stories about a Ukrainian breakthrough to save their asses, and probably thought that with the Western mercenaries among them, the West would somehow come to the rescue.  The joke is on them because the only people who would like to see them dead more than Russia would be Zelenski and their Jewish oligarch sponsors (edit: and U.S. state department Jews such as Victoria Nudelman-Kagan) who have been paying them for a decade for just this day.

Takes a lot of 'character' to justify the use of human shields just to maybe give a little more time for Western weapons to come in to some other part of the country.  I will give you that.

...

I have not justified the use of human shields. I have not seen evidence of human shields being used. I have seem evidence of Putin's army shelling heavily populated areas. Perhaps the chances of civils being there would be less if more could be safely evacuated - for avoidance of doubt, that does not mean being deported evacuated to Russia.

Putin's troops that are being used in Mariupol are the ones not being used somewhere else. They are not "pinned" if you would rather have it worded differently, but they certainly cannot leave.

Zelensky said publicly weeks ago that they could not help the troops in Mariupol - it does not get any clearer than that.

On regards to financing, your statement looks like a poker player accusing other's of cheating better than himself.

...
Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
...

Totally biased. I do not think there are proofs of widespread genocide, but attacks on civilians, summary executions and mass graves are clear and documented. Only the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales denies it at this point.

...
On March 25, 2022, Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy told reporters: "At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed. The country's naval forces have ceased to exist".
Further in the same article, the number of destroyed and remaining Ukrainian military equipment is given:

Code:

"The Russian military destroyed [...] 112 out of 152 aircraft, 75 helicopters out of 149,
148 air defense systems S-300 and Buk M1 out of 180 [...]"

I see, again the usual sources. Seriously, how do you pretend to question information by using as source from Putin's military chief psycho? Has the Dark Humour Department being preparing your answers again?

...
Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?
...

Again, you base your answer in the "poster not knowing enough" and citing sources from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Pigeon surveillance section.

All there is here is a poorly elaborated lie aiming to link Ukraine with bioweapons. It is so incredible that I can only thank you again for helping the Ukrainian cause.

...
According to the French war reporter Anne-Laure Bonnel during an interview with a French TV channel, it was not Russia, but the Ukrainian government that bombed its own population in the Donbass.

Code:

The Kiev government has bombarded the Russian-speaking population.

...

Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank.

This is probably the only thing I could believe. I mean, the bit on Ukraine shelling the Donbas, not that Putin's psychos did not do it as well or the fact that the bombs were somehow language selective.

I could even believe Kirby except for a little detail - he says he does not understand "why Russia would deny it". I can certainly figure out why.

Anyway, there are some pictures out today. I will wait for analysts to put forward opinions and see if they are validated.

...

I have a very bad news for you but Putin has officially hired Nazis to fight for him long ago.


A very famous Nazi group of Russia's Troops are German Nazi entrepreneurs participating in Putins wars again and again. It's Wagner group and was involved already in Syria to keep Despot Assad in power and Putin hired Wagner's troops. Wagner's Nazi troops are officially emplayed by Russian govt.
CEO of Wagner group is currently Dmitriy Utkin, a Russian Nazi: https://www.italy24news.com/world/391586.html

In 2022 images surfaced of Utkin purportedly showing Waffen SS collar tab and Reichsadler Eagle tattoos on his collar and chest. Additionally, several prominent members of the Wagner group have been photographed or recorded in Nazi uniforms or taking part in re-enactments of WWII events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

You can look at Google pictures, Dmitriy Utkin, a russian Nazi, is glorifying german Nazi symbolism and ideology.


Yes, Nazis are officially hired by Putin's govt.  

Oh... I suggest to the Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales a response to that in the lines of "these are Russian Patriots fighting Nazis around the world" they are "Russperheroes" but witht the underwear inside the pants.



This guy should go to Ukraine himself instead of sending the young Russians to die. He's got the pants, why is he waiting to put on the shirt as well?

[af_newbie]

What is the definition of a Nazi as used in the postings in this thread?

I admit to only 'lightly' know a Hitler type Nazi, but surely that has changed in 80 years?

(although the portable crematoriums used in Ukraine by the Russians gives me pause to think)

According to the Kremlin Trolls here, anything that gets hit by Putin's weaponry. For example, a maternity hospital is hit = it was full of Nazis. Civilians on a mass grave? nope, Nazis. Troops defending their country, nope, Nazis.

It is just a excuse, not a real reason for the war whatsoever. Putin could not care less about the ideology of his victims.

...
Oh, I see:

Steel mill Azov:

...

As said, whatever their reasons, they are the troops that are less likely to give in.

Sure, we all know that Putin would not be attacking Mariupol if it were defended by someone else, right??. As far as I am concerned, the "nazi" argument is irrelevant for this war but if you want to open that box, let's go:

- Hitler reached power being voted and then used the estate power to kill and ban his political enemies.
- Hitler assumed Arian supremacy as a principle.
- Hitler impeded free speech and incarcerated anyone who spoke against.
- Hitler looked for an enemy to blame for Germany's problems (Jews).
- Hitler used the army to invade his neighbours, mostly pacific ones.
- Hitler tried to impose his despotic model on the conquered, using dummies (e.g. French gov in Vichy).
- Hitler threated democracies and ended up in conflict with France, US, UK.

Now, change Hitler for Putin, Arian for Russian, Germany for Russia, Vichy for Belorussia and, curiously, Jews for Nazis and you will see who is actually the Nazi here.

a) The US intelligence service is collaborating with Ukraine to a very large extent, even when planning strategies and tactics.
b) The US intelligence service has in-depth understanding of the naval defence systems on Russian Navy and seems to have analysed their weaknesses perfectly.
c) Putin cannot put any short of faith in a sea launched attack or support.
d) The real effectiveness of the Russian fleet may be well below what Putin generals are counting on, not just on this particular case.

Don't forget the Ukrainian postal service. They must have had a hand in this, timed it perfectly as a promotion for the postal stamp - can't be a coincidence

Seriously though, the ship was built in Ukraine and its defensive stuff is similar to the ground systems used by Ukraine (e.g. C300) so I wouldn't overestimate the US "help"... albeit some satellite and Global Hawk surveillance probably helped.

Edit - some unconfirmed pictures are showing up on twitface: https://twitter.com/osinttechnical

Not that there was any doubt about the "storm" and "waves" that sank it but yeah... there is no storm. Just cloudy.

The ship was effectively assembled in Ukraine yes - I can put a SIM card in a cell phone (in most anyway), but I do not know the details of any of them and, after a couple of Google updates (in this case, RF updates), I am certainly completely unaware of what may be happening inside.

There are three systems of defence, four against planes. These include the one you mention that is ineffective for low altitude (50 feet) flying missiles, however the second set of missiles and the Gatling guns were also voided.

It is anything but easy to sink a Cruise the way it has happened. The way the defences were penetrated requires an in depth knowledge of their behaviour, knowledge of the precise location, knowledge of the best moment to attack and how. As said, I have no proof, but I do not think I am putting forward a conspiracy theory, just saying that Ukraine is getting a level of intel and support that goes beyond passing all the info from the AWACS that are flying continuously in all OTAN borders.

I guess that the new Russian habitat for coralline species recently created is the only "proof" I can offer, but certainly a high level of intel coming from the US on this precise strike seems very likely.

Please, do not get me wrong, these people are not super-human, they die and need food and water, but they are quite peculiar in terms of their moral and will to fight. The longer they pin the Russian army, the more chances Ukraine has to use the West's aid.

Lol.  I hope if I ever get 'pinned down' in combat it is in the way Azov and associated mercenaries pinned down the Chechens in Mariupol.

I'm guessing that for to long the 'defenders' believed the stories about a Ukrainian breakthrough to save their asses, and probably thought that with the Western mercenaries among them, the West would somehow come to the rescue.  The joke is on them because the only people who would like to see them dead more than Russia would be Zelenski and their Jewish oligarch sponsors (edit: and U.S. state department Jews such as Victoria Nudelman-Kagan) who have been paying them for a decade for just this day.

Takes a lot of 'character' to justify the use of human shields just to maybe give a little more time for Western weapons to come in to some other part of the country.  I will give you that.

...

I have not justified the use of human shields. I have not seen evidence of human shields being used. I have seem evidence of Putin's army shelling heavily populated areas. Perhaps the chances of civils being there would be less if more could be safely evacuated - for avoidance of doubt, that does not mean being deported evacuated to Russia.

Putin's troops that are being used in Mariupol are the ones not being used somewhere else. They are not "pinned" if you would rather have it worded differently, but they certainly cannot leave.

Zelensky said publicly weeks ago that they could not help the troops in Mariupol - it does not get any clearer than that.

On regards to financing, your statement looks like a poker player accusing other's of cheating better than himself.

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Nothing can justify violence, and civilians suffer in every war, but there should be strong grounds for saying that Russian troops are purposefully killing Ukrainian civilians, literally engaging in genocide.
...

Totally biased. I do not think there are proofs of widespread genocide, but attacks on civilians, summary executions and mass graves are clear and documented. Only the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales denies it at this point.

...
On March 25, 2022, Colonel General Sergei Rudskoy told reporters: "At present, the Ukrainian air force and air defense system have been almost completely destroyed. The country's naval forces have ceased to exist".
Further in the same article, the number of destroyed and remaining Ukrainian military equipment is given:

Code:

"The Russian military destroyed [...] 112 out of 152 aircraft, 75 helicopters out of 149,
148 air defense systems S-300 and Buk M1 out of 180 [...]"

I see, again the usual sources. Seriously, how do you pretend to question information by using as source from Putin's military chief psycho? Has the Dark Humour Department being preparing your answers again?

...
Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?
...

Again, you base your answer in the "poster not knowing enough" and citing sources from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Pigeon surveillance section.

All there is here is a poorly elaborated lie aiming to link Ukraine with bioweapons. It is so incredible that I can only thank you again for helping the Ukrainian cause.

...
According to the French war reporter Anne-Laure Bonnel during an interview with a French TV channel, it was not Russia, but the Ukrainian government that bombed its own population in the Donbass.

Code:

The Kiev government has bombarded the Russian-speaking population.

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Even Pentagon spokesman John Kirby doesn't know the exact reason why the Moscow cruiser sank.

This is probably the only thing I could believe. I mean, the bit on Ukraine shelling the Donbas, not that Putin's psychos did not do it as well or the fact that the bombs were somehow language selective.

I could even believe Kirby except for a little detail - he says he does not understand "why Russia would deny it". I can certainly figure out why.

Anyway, there are some pictures out today. I will wait for analysts to put forward opinions and see if they are validated.

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I have a very bad news for you but Putin has officially hired Nazis to fight for him long ago.


A very famous Nazi group of Russia's Troops are German Nazi entrepreneurs participating in Putins wars again and again. It's Wagner group and was involved already in Syria to keep Despot Assad in power and Putin hired Wagner's troops. Wagner's Nazi troops are officially emplayed by Russian govt.
CEO of Wagner group is currently Dmitriy Utkin, a Russian Nazi: https://www.italy24news.com/world/391586.html

In 2022 images surfaced of Utkin purportedly showing Waffen SS collar tab and Reichsadler Eagle tattoos on his collar and chest. Additionally, several prominent members of the Wagner group have been photographed or recorded in Nazi uniforms or taking part in re-enactments of WWII events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

You can look at Google pictures, Dmitriy Utkin, a russian Nazi, is glorifying german Nazi symbolism and ideology.


Yes, Nazis are officially hired by Putin's govt.  

Oh... I suggest to the Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales a response to that in the lines of "these are Russian Patriots fighting Nazis around the world" they are "Russperheroes" but witht the underwear inside the pants.



This guy should go to Ukraine himself instead of sending the young Russians to die. He's got the pants, why is he waiting to put on the shirt as well?

After this war is over, Ukrainians need to send death squads to kill these "Russian heroes", especially those who participated in terrorist activities in Bucha, Mariupol, etc. These motherfuckers need to pay.

[be.open]

4. "30 biolabs developing military geese and pigeon corps".
You distorted the original statement of the Representative of Russia to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya. On March 11, he made the statement:

Code:

The Russian Federation’s military became aware of a programme that has the goal of studying
the possibility of spreading infections using migratory birds, including H5N1 and the Newcastle disease.

Apparently, you have reason to be sarcastic on this topic if you have studied the materials presented by the Russian side and if you are a professional infectious disease specialist in order to completely eliminate the bacteriological threat from that 30 labs in Ukraine. Can you share your expert opinion in order to break the arguments of the Russian side on this issue once and for all?

A twofer - burden of proof / tu quoque. The Russian side presented a load of bullshit to put it mildly. There are plenty of fact checks on that, such as:

https://www.bbc.com/news/60711705

This is a weak argument - a reference to a month old newspaper article when you ignore the latest statement at the chemical defense briefing, with serious allegations, documented evidence and confirmed facts.  Here are the slides from this briefing.

You know there are Nazis in the US also right?  And they are also against the liberals and their cancel cultutre, virtue signaling, main stream media, lgbtq rights, etc...

There is a nuance, the Nazi battalion Azov is part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as a regular unit. Before you publicly justify the Nazis, think twice - whether you are fighting in the wrong direction.

And how are you justifying the Nazis leading and fighting for the DPR and LPR?  These are Nazis with actual political power with Putins full support.  What's the difference in Russian Nazis and Ukrainian Nazis? (Other than Russian Nazis have political office and Ukrainian Nazis don't)

Good question. I think the logic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" works here. At present, the status of Donbass in the eyes of Russia is the independent people's republics of the DPR and LPR, with which, at their request and on their initiative, treaties of friendship and mutual military support have been signed. Until February 21, 2022, this was an internal affair of Ukraine, in fact a civil war and genocide of the Russian-speaking population of Donbass, who were forbidden to speak their native language, and when they did not agree with this, they began to shoot, kill and did it for 8 years right in the center of Europe. And the Grad attacks on Donetsk on February 22 were already the aggression of the Armed Forces of Ukraine against an ally of Russia, to which Russia reacted with its own special operation, which we are now discussing here.

Russia is a multinational country and condemns Nazism, at the official level it is a policy of zero tolerance. Far-right nationalist groups in Russia are extremist and operate outside the law, this is working for the special services. It seems that the FSB already had questions to the head of the LPR about his public statements, I hope this will soften the intensity of the rhetoric. The community of Russian people is supranational.

As Zinaida Gipius said, "if you need to explain, then you don't need to explain".

So, ok, Arestovich said this stuff about Zelensky few years ago. There was lot of things said about him before and after elections from public person in Ukraine. But does all these things matters now after few years?

If you listen to Arestovich a lot, then Ukraine is doing much better now than a couple of months ago. Buried alive in the Azovstal bunker is also a victory for Ukraine, of course.

Maybe you want something fresher? The 52nd day of the special operation, President Zelensky of Ukraine appears to be pretty drunk or under the influence of drugs. The video seems to be a deepfake, but the link is to Zelensky's official Instagram lol.

What a classic . Zelensky addicted to drugs or alcochol. Putin already called Kiev as gang of drug addicts, nothing surprising that you use this nareative.

That is, it doesn’t bother you that the president of Ukraine is a drug addict and an actor from the series about the president, doing some kind of game and all that?

[tvbcof]

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Russia is a multinational country and condemns Nazism, at the official level it is a policy of zero tolerance. Far-right nationalist groups in Russia are extremist and operate outside the law, this is working for the special services. It seems that the FSB already had questions to the head of the LPR about his public statements, I hope this will soften the intensity of the rhetoric. The community of Russian people is supranational.

Maybe they are ADL certified Kosher Nazis because they don't cause problems for Jews or Israelis.  Like the ones fighting under Zelensky('s handlers) now.

In seeking a hypothesis with the most explanatory power, the one which best explains Russia's attitude in my mind is that Jewish people/interests ran a whole cycle of Communism from the start-up under the Bolsheviks through the collapse and pay-out to the Oligarchs, and that effective control continues to this day.  Seems to me that from start until now Jews in Russia are afforded 'special' protections at the very least.  Maybe they need it for whatever set of reasons, or maybe it's just handy to have and generations of enforcement (involving terrorism) have it pretty ingrained in the society at large.

Also, perhaps, there is a somewhat obscured relationship between Judaism and 'the Nazis' which is not appropriate to say much about.  Certain of the Monty Python guys were pretty politically savvy and in The Life of Brian at least they made a lot of fun of what are today pretty highly protected classes in some societies (trannys, homosexuals, cripples, Communists, etc.)  Here's an interesting clip which was censored out before it could be approved for viewing in America:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4tBSreW84

At the end of the day, 'Nazis' of one stripe or another and at one time or another have been responsible for a lot of things that Jews, and particularly Zionist Jews, have found desirable for their goals.  Instrumental one might say, and I doubt that the phenomenon was or would have been unknown or unpredicted at the upper echelons of leadership and planning.

[be.open]

...

Russia is a multinational country and condemns Nazism, at the official level it is a policy of zero tolerance. Far-right nationalist groups in Russia are extremist and operate outside the law, this is working for the special services. It seems that the FSB already had questions to the head of the LPR about his public statements, I hope this will soften the intensity of the rhetoric. The community of Russian people is supranational.

Maybe they are ADL certified Kosher Nazis because they don't cause problems for Jews or Israelis.  Like the ones fighting under Zelensky('s handlers) now.

In seeking a hypothesis with the most explanatory power, the one which best explains Russia's attitude in my mind is that Jewish people/interests ran a whole cycle of Communism from the start-up under the Bolsheviks through the collapse and pay-out to the Oligarchs, and that effective control continues to this day.  Seems to me that from start until now Jews in Russia are afforded 'special' protections at the very least.  Maybe they need it for whatever set of reasons, or maybe it's just handy to have and generations of enforcement (involving terrorism) have it pretty ingrained in the society at large.

Also, perhaps, there is a somewhat obscured relationship between Judaism and 'the Nazis' which is not appropriate to say much about.  Certain of the Monty Python guys were pretty politically savvy and in The Life of Brian at least they made a lot of fun of what are today pretty highly protected classes in some societies (trannys, homosexuals, cripples, Communists, etc.)  Here's an interesting clip which was censored out before it could be approved for viewing in America:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of4tBSreW84

At the end of the day, 'Nazis' of one stripe or another and at one time or another have been responsible for a lot of things that Jews, and particularly Zionist Jews, have found desirable for their goals.  Instrumental one might say, and I doubt that the phenomenon was or would have been unknown or unpredicted at the upper echelons of leadership and planning.

I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories, maybe some of them are not groundless.

In your opinion, today's appeal of the commander of Azov about the presence of civilians near Azovstal is a confession to a war crime - given the humanitarian corridor opened by Russia yesterday and the ceasefire regime? If the civilians did not come out yesterday, then Azov is holding them hostage like a human shield? Doesn't that make the Nazis of Azov just a gang of terrorists?

[Branko]

Literally every UN update on death count explicitly says the numbers they are providing are only confirmed deaths, and they expect the actual number to be much higher.  They aren't even counting the major cities that have basically been destroyed over the past 2 months.

It was the same in Iraq, so his comparison is still valid

[be.open]

Meanwhile, it looks like the battle for Donbass has begun with increased activity on all fronts.