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Author Topic: [Update] IMF urges El Salvador to remove Bitcoin as legal tender  (Read 706 times)
hugeblack (OP)
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January 25, 2022, 07:36:15 PM
Last edit: February 02, 2022, 01:43:28 PM by hugeblack
Merited by fillippone (3)
 #1

Quote
#BREAKING IMF urges El Salvador to remove Bitcoin as legal tender
Source --> https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1486051087736094729?s=20

I don't want to be pessimistic but still El Salvador wasn't ready to adopt Bitcoin, now with the price dropping and the pressure mounting, do you think El Salvador is ready to continue to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender?

Let's see how the price will also react to more negative news. Grin

UPDATE:  El Salvador Rejects IMF Call to Abandon Bitcoin as Legal Tender

El Salvador has rejected the recommendation by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to drop bitcoin as legal tender. The country’s finance minister reportedly “angrily” said, “No international organization is going to make us do anything, anything at all.


Quote
According to its analysis, “In the near-term the actual costs of implementing Chivo and operationalizing the Bitcoin law exceed potential benefits,” the IMF stated in its recent report on El Salvador.

The International Monetary Fund also recommended that El Salvador’s government start charging fees for the use of its digital wallet, Chivo. In addition, the IMF wants the Salvadoran government to stop giving away $30 in bitcoin to anyone signing up to use the Chivo wallet.


Source and more ---> https://news.bitcoin.com/el-salvador-rejects-imf-call-to-abandon-bitcoin-as-legal-tender/



So, the government's position was strongly rejecting, with the IMF warning to interfere in the internal financial affairs of the state, to see how opinions will be in the future, especially since the government's position is very bold with regard to Bitcoin.

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January 25, 2022, 08:17:20 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #2

Tough times create real leader! I am sure Nayib Bukele is going through one of the toughest times of his tenure. He is the one, who had taken a revolutionary decision to make bitcoin as a legal tender for his country even after tremendous criticism within the country. He held on to his decision and didn't change his mind during this entire transition.

Now more and more criticisms are following in because the price of bitcoin has gone down! We all know bitcoin is an extremely volatile asset. If we look at the recent past of 2017 and 2018, we can easily understand the level of volatility. But when we are standing on 2022, it's impossible for us to buy bitcoin at the price of late 2017.

I want to see how much criticism he will have to face when bitcoin price reaches another ATH in next few years. IMF is a centralized body so it's not the first time they have urged El-Salvador to reconsider their decision and I am sure they will try even in future as well. But the time will decide the winner really! 

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January 25, 2022, 08:21:33 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #3

I don't want to be pessimistic but still El Salvador wasn't ready to adopt Bitcoin,
IMF mounting pressure on El Salvador to remove bitcoin as a legal tender does not mean the country was not ready or it was a wrong choice. The policies of the IMF has also been heavily criticized on several occasions, so I would not rate that suggestion very highly.

now with the price dropping and the pressure mounting, do you think El Salvador is ready to continue to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender?
I am more interested in how much longer they would hodl their bought bitcoin if the price keeps dropping.

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January 25, 2022, 08:27:09 PM
 #4

I don't want to be pessimistic but still El Salvador wasn't ready to adopt Bitcoin, now with the price dropping and the pressure mounting, do you think El Salvador is ready to continue to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender?

From what I know they cannot dictate what a country/government has to do (unless it's the condition for a deal, but here it's not the case).
Hence I expect Nayib Bukele see it as an opportunity to play macho and say he doesn't give a fuck on IMF.

The real problems will come only if El Salvador will get to the point they cannot continue without financial help from outside. Then probably Bukele will lose his position, the coins will be sold, and bye-bye legal tender. It would be an extremely sad story; it would be much worse than if bitcoin never was legal tender there and - if we get there - it'll probably be also in times the price is crashing (or crashed) badly.

Let's see how the price will also react to more negative news. Grin

The impact on price now should be minimal. Or course, some may have the ammo prepared for a bigger-than-expected impact. Because that's how wild-wild-west trading goes.

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January 25, 2022, 09:04:52 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5

Bukele will probably not falter. With the image he created on the internet about El Salvador's stance on bitcoin, and seeing how deep they are in the crypto scene, they would not let the impression of the people change at all. I wonder how he will try to mitigate their losses on bitcoin currently, but sure enough he would not publicly state that they will sell at a loss because that's just bad money management (and bad for their image, too).

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January 25, 2022, 09:12:37 PM
 #6

Bukele will probably not falter. With the image he created on the internet about El Salvador's stance on bitcoin, and seeing how deep they are in the crypto scene, they would not let the impression of the people change at all. I wonder how he will try to mitigate their losses on bitcoin currently, but sure enough he would not publicly state that they will sell at a loss because that's just bad money management (and bad for their image, too).

Ya, he seems to be at an all time high in clout, which seems to be part of his motivation.  Who knows, maybe the IMF will bribe him enough that life changing wealth means more to him then being a King of Clout.  I doubt it though.  He's riding high at the moment.

Interesting that the IMF has resorted to this though...  Maybe because they know that a second country is about to go on the Bitcoin standard and are now actively trying to stop this from eroding their influence on global finance.  The ball is rolling already though.  I expect we'll have an announcement on the second country to make Bitcoin a legal currency sometime in the next 3-6 months and that will undoubtably bring a new batch of coiners our way. 

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January 25, 2022, 09:59:07 PM
Merited by hugeblack (6)
 #7

better link to source
https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2022/01/25/pr2213-el-salvador-imf-executive-board-concludes-2021-article-iv-consultation
Quote
Directors agreed on the importance of boosting financial inclusion and noted that digital means of payment—such as the Chivo e-wallet—could play this role. However, they emphasized the need for strict regulation and oversight of the new ecosystem of Chivo and Bitcoin. They stressed that there are large risks associated with the use of Bitcoin on financial stability, financial integrity, and consumer protection, as well as the associated fiscal contingent liabilities. They urged the authorities to narrow the scope of the Bitcoin law by removing Bitcoin’s legal tender status. Some Directors also expressed concern over the risks associated with issuing Bitcoin-backed bonds.

the IMF fears bitcoin as legal tender. because if all citizens shifted their income, wealth, savings to bitcoin. then el salvador wont have any dollar to play with to settle the IMF dollar debt. thus el salvador could claim BANKruptcy. to write off the dollar debt, while not affecting citizens pockets because they dont touch the dollar.

the IMF does not want to give out more dollar loans if the country is not tied to dollar to ensure they pay it back.

what the IMF is not realising is el salvador wants to get away from SDR (dollar) dependency.
what the IMF actually cares solely about is increasing a countries dependency on SDR

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January 25, 2022, 10:03:08 PM
 #8

Yea I'm not so sure El Salvador will pay too much attention to the IMF. It wasnt in the
IMF's interest at all that El Salvador made the move into Bitcoin and they got no
support from the IMF then.

I hope El Salvador stays strong and weathers all storms and bear markets until
the next halving in other words look to the medium to long term.

R


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January 25, 2022, 10:17:36 PM
 #9

Yea I'm not so sure El Salvador will pay too much attention to the IMF. It wasnt in the
IMF's interest at all that El Salvador made the move into Bitcoin and they got no
support from the IMF then.

I hope El Salvador stays strong and weathers all storms and bear markets until
the next halving in other words look to the medium to long term.

part of the announcement was triggered because el-salvador requested a SDR loan of 1.3billion and the IMF said they want to monitor el-salvadors dollar holdings and try to get el salvador to agree to a plan to reduce its debt (start paying dollar to the IMF)
in short IMF is afraid el-salvador will claim bankruptcy and cut all ties to the dollar, and never repay.

..
this IMF fear is based on many US cities* have gone into bankruptcy to write off US parts of national debt. which then means the US then cant pay the IMF SDR back because less cities are paying the us treasury back.
IMF fears if too many cities/micronations do this bankruptcy option. then the IMF becomes dead.

*The city of Detroit, Michigan,filed bankruptcy on July 18, 2013. at $18–20 billion,
Vallejo, California, $18 million debt in 2008
Jefferson County, Alabama's $4-billion filing in 2011.
Orange County, California, at least $1.5 billion debt 1994
San Bernardino, California, more than $1 billion in debt in 2012
Stockton, California, $700 million debt 2012





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January 25, 2022, 10:20:47 PM
 #10

The real problems will come only if El Salvador will get to the point they cannot continue without financial help from outside. Then probably Bukele will lose his position, the coins will be sold, and bye-bye legal tender. It would be an extremely sad story; it would be much worse than if bitcoin never was legal tender there and - if we get there - it'll probably be also in times the price is crashing (or crashed) badly.

This is actually a big risk, he might be calling himself "world's coolest dictator", but if opposition will get control, which can very easily happen regardless of Bitcoin's influence on their economy, it would certainly mean Bitcoin will lose its status, maybe they will even ban it as some sort of overreaction, because we've seen how the opposition is criticizing Bukele's Bitcoin moves. So in some sense Bukele not only risked his country's money, but also Bitcoin's reputation, because if El Salvador will roll back Bitcoin's legal tender status, no other country would adopt in the next years.

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January 25, 2022, 10:23:05 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #11

From my perspective, having recently arrived in San Salvador, I think the IMF request is not unreasonable.

Bitcoin is not being used as legal tender here - it is a front for an Alipay-style centralised app and facial recognition database - and the experiment has more potential to do harm than good for bitcoin, and perhaps El Salvador.

As I understand it, El Salvador's policy has three main elements:
1. The introduction of the Chivo app;
2. The acquisition of bitcoin in FX reserves;
3. The issuance of the EBB1 bond and subsequent, related issues.

Of these, the first is not honest and not working. I haven't seen the app used here even once. The second is not going well, and a strategy of 'buy the dip' sounds unprofessional, but I think it can be prudently executed and the amounts involved aren't that significant. The third is the most interesting idea, but the devil will be in the detail.

In order to gain and maintain confidence in the bond issuance and FX strategy, suspending the Chivo experiment may be a wise move. At the moment, it wouldn't be a major loss and the only real question it would leave is who has gained access to the facial recognition database.
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January 25, 2022, 10:24:32 PM
 #12

Yea I'm not so sure El Salvador will pay too much attention to the IMF. It wasnt in the
IMF's interest at all that El Salvador made the move into Bitcoin and they got no
support from the IMF then.

I hope El Salvador stays strong and weathers all storms and bear markets until
the next halving in other words look to the medium to long term.
Its part of the challenges that you would really face when you do make it as a legal tender and as a leader or president then you do know the risk since the first place and this is the time
on which it did really happen.Of course there would be other sentiments which would really make out those reactions specially they do know a certain country did really make it as a legal
tender and suggestions and words like these will surely float around but still it would depend on the leader of the country would be having that final decision.

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January 25, 2022, 10:30:37 PM
 #13

Of these, the first is not honest and not working. I haven't seen the app used here even once. The second is not going well, and a strategy of 'buy the dip' sounds unprofessional, but I think it can be prudently executed and the amounts involved aren't that significant. The third is the most interesting idea, but the devil will be in the detail.

In order to gain and maintain confidence in the bond issuance and FX strategy, suspending the Chivo experiment may be a wise move. At the moment, it wouldn't be a major loss and the only real question it would leave is who has gained access to the facial recognition database.

yes, media has over sold "bitcoin legal tender" as if el salvador has dropped the dollar. this is not the case. its instead added a second legal tender. adding options.
though at the moment the adoption and regular utility of this second option isnt much. the IMF fears the potential.
the potential is if the citizens moved their wealth over to bitcoin, and just stopped using dollar. then the IMF is screwed and wont get its debts to el salvador settled. though not a immediate threat. not a short term risk. the IMF is concerned about long term risk of long term loans not being repaid should el salvadorians prefer to use bitcoin instead of dollar

..
similar things were happening with UK/euro. because the UK didnt want to use the euro as a native currency. the euro banks didnt want to offer the UK euro loans. because if the UK is not circulating euro's then the euro banks have little chance of the UK generating enough euro to repay. thus allowing the UK a back door to exit out of by just claiming euro bankruptcy. whilst keeping the pound active for citizens in the UK

.. well then brexit happened and we left by another door. as we refused to join the euro, when asked again to drop the pound.

UK had a brexit. to cut ties with eurobank
i wonder if/when el salv' will do a IMF***off

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January 25, 2022, 10:38:09 PM
 #14

I think they're ready for it. Bukele has been buying every time the market drops and that signifies that they're pursuant to what they're doing for bitcoin and which they've adopted as a legal tender. AFAIK, IMF is a bitcoin supporter and that's from the articles that I've read years ago, maybe 2-4 years ago and now that they're questioning El Salvador to remove what they've decided to adopt bitcoin as a legal tender, isn't it that this is just a FUD and they want to give panic to the people so that everyone's going to sell and pull the prices down?

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January 25, 2022, 10:42:11 PM
Merited by hugeblack (4), NotATether (2)
 #15

I think they're ready for it. Bukele has been buying every time the market drops and that signifies that they're pursuant to what they're doing for bitcoin and which they've adopted as a legal tender. AFAIK, IMF is a bitcoin supporter and that's from the articles that I've read years ago, maybe 2-4 years ago and now that they're questioning El Salvador to remove what they've decided to adopt bitcoin as a legal tender, isn't it that this is just a FUD and they want to give panic to the people so that everyone's going to sell and pull the prices down?

IMF supports bitcoin and crypto for its utility.. but some IMF departments are the loan officers who are tasked to make sure countries repay their SDR debts. and its this loan office department that fears el-salvador trying to get its sovereignty back.

a lesson the IMF should do. is not want to peg/tie itself just to SDR(dollar) and instead have several vessels of reserve.
EG 'amero' 'brics' 'crypto'
where it can happily take in 3 designated currencies

EG
a commercial bank that only handles dollar, limits itself to a customer base of 320million people. yet a commercial bank that handles multiple international currencies has a potential customer base of near 8 billion.
so far the IMF is small minded trying to exagerate the dollars power/influence by trying to get all countries around the world to be tied to the dollar. even when in the real world only 5% of the world uses dollar daily

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January 25, 2022, 10:53:49 PM
 #16

I think they're ready for it. Bukele has been buying every time the market drops and that signifies that they're pursuant to what they're doing for bitcoin and which they've adopted as a legal tender. AFAIK, IMF is a bitcoin supporter and that's from the articles that I've read years ago, maybe 2-4 years ago and now that they're questioning El Salvador to remove what they've decided to adopt bitcoin as a legal tender, isn't it that this is just a FUD and they want to give panic to the people so that everyone's going to sell and pull the prices down?

They may change their minds again once btc is going up. But can IMF dictate what El Salvador will do to their monetary system? This year, we will see how this country will stand on their ground towards their crypto journey. Maybe in the next months to come, they will disclose if they bought some BTC during this dip. Of course, they will be silent for now. But once the market is going bullish again, they may disclose what they have done during this period. El Salvador may be a living testament that btc can be a legal tender of a country if they play right.
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January 25, 2022, 11:05:47 PM
Merited by hugeblack (4)
 #17

But can IMF dictate what El Salvador will do to their monetary system?
yes
https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2016/08/02/21/28/IMF-Conditionality
Quote
Prior actions.
These are steps a country agrees to take before the IMF approves financing or completes a review. They ensure that a program will have the necessary foundation for success.
..
Minimum level of federal government primary balance
Ceiling on government borrowing
Minimum level of international reserves
Minimum level of the general government primary balance
Minimum domestic revenue collection
Minimum level of social assistance spending
Improve financial sector operations
Build up social safety nets
Strengthen public financial management

in short when a country takes a loan. they are bound by the terms of the loan. such as a country has to then claw in enough tax income of the loaned currency to fill the government treasury of that currency. or has to offer the currency as social assistance to put it into circulation

thus making it dependant on that currency.

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January 25, 2022, 11:45:08 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #18

The IMF and the cronies running it are scared.  Of course they want El Salvador to drop bitcoin because it takes control from the surveillance state kleptocrats and puts it in the hands of people.  Does El Salvador want to eventually be free of the international control freaks or does it want to be under their thumbs in perpetuity?

The answer should be: keep bitcoin and give it time.  The IMF has destroyed countries world wide with the insane policies it has recommended, trusting them now is like trusting any fiat currency to retain value.  As inflation in the US showed last year, they can't do it.  Bitcoin can over time.
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January 25, 2022, 11:51:01 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #19

I think they're ready for it. Bukele has been buying every time the market drops and that signifies that they're pursuant to what they're doing for bitcoin and which they've adopted as a legal tender. AFAIK, IMF is a bitcoin supporter and that's from the articles that I've read years ago, maybe 2-4 years ago and now that they're questioning El Salvador to remove what they've decided to adopt bitcoin as a legal tender, isn't it that this is just a FUD and they want to give panic to the people so that everyone's going to sell and pull the prices down?

IMF supports bitcoin and crypto for its utility.. but some IMF departments are the loan officers who are tasked to make sure countries repay their SDR debts. and its this loan office department that fears el-salvador trying to get its sovereignty back.

a lesson the IMF should do. is not want to peg/tie itself just to SDR(dollar) and instead have several vessels of reserve.
EG 'amero' 'brics' 'crypto'
where it can happily take in 3 designated currencies

EG
a commercial bank that only handles dollar, limits itself to a customer base of 320million people. yet a commercial bank that handles multiple international currencies has a potential customer base of near 8 billion.
so far the IMF is small minded trying to exagerate the dollars power/influence by trying to get all countries around the world to be tied to the dollar. even when in the real world only 5% of the world uses dollar daily
They are a huge organization that relies on dollars and so that's the reason why they're putting their trust in it instead of letting El Salvador do its thing alone, they want to intervene as it seems doesn't look for them. What's the matter if a country wants to adopt it as a legal tender and they actually have passed it and went through a process and made a bill for it. I think this is one of the reasons why many countries don't like to stand with these international orgs because they are trying to interfere with anything with almost everything.

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January 25, 2022, 11:55:35 PM
 #20

Wall street and the central bankers are manipulating the bitcoin price and make a fortune with options trading because they are the ones controlling the liquidity now and can ripsaw the price in any direction to wipe out short or long positions but I don't think they will drop it much further however they are easily capable of frightening countries who adopt bitcoin without their blessing or appointed time to do so.
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