RodeoX
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Activity: 3066
Merit: 1145
The revolution will be monetized!
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March 27, 2014, 04:22:03 PM |
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Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario. The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people. 0%... hard to beat that.
That is my rate this year. I was a little surprised and a lot happy. I pay dearly for the money I earn from working, but nothing this year for bitcoin. Thanks IRS, my 0% tax rate makes me 100% satisfied. Can you elaborate on this? How is it 0%? Just as you would expect, it is an overly complicated calculation based on your income and tax rate. But just filling out the forms and following the rules that was the result. It would have come out differently depending on how much I spent. In the future I may hire a tax pro to help me discover how much I can spend each year and keep my tax burden bottomed out. |
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The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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Beliathon
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March 27, 2014, 04:22:29 PM |
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This is basically so they can get a slice of the pie from the Bitcoin millionaires. So rich folks can't dodge taxes by throwing all their money into Bitcoin.
Long term, it makes very little difference for this technology.
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Gentso1
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March 27, 2014, 04:24:34 PM |
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Dark wallet anyone?
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pandher
Legendary
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Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
Stagnation is Death
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March 27, 2014, 04:24:54 PM |
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Source of problem: You are interested in Bitcoin's daily fiat exchange rate instead of interested in Bitcoin's incredible utility as a superior technology, a better "way of doing money".
Ignore the exchange rate. Speculators don't matter. Judge it objectively, as a scientist would, and you will see cryptocurrency is the future, and fiat is the past.
There's no way around it.
And that is not happening unless hoarders liquidate their holdings. Till then bitcoin will only be an expensive speculative collectors item |
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Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
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Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
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March 27, 2014, 04:27:26 PM |
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Feels like bitcoin is doomed every other week.
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2tights (OP)
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March 27, 2014, 04:28:13 PM |
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I am against paying unrealistic taxes.
I am personally opposed to all kinds of theft, but if you are the sort who doesn't mind it as long as it comes from your government, paying capital gains on an asset that goes from $60 to $500 in a few months isn't unrealistic. If there is stability or the asset loses value, you don't owe anything. I don't believe its quite so simple as blatant theft. At least some of the tax money maintains roads and schools. That's why I don't mind paying "SOME" taxes, but I certainly agree that we pay WAY too much tax, and the government has gotten WAY too large and they are WAY too inefficient. |
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Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
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Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
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March 27, 2014, 04:29:31 PM |
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I am against paying unrealistic taxes.
I am personally opposed to all kinds of theft, but if you are the sort who doesn't mind it as long as it comes from your government, paying capital gains on an asset that goes from $60 to $500 in a few months isn't unrealistic. If there is stability or the asset loses value, you don't owe anything. I don't believe its quite so simple as blatant theft. At least some of the tax money maintains roads and schools. That's why I don't mind paying "SOME" taxes, but I certainly agree that we pay WAY too much tax, and the government has gotten WAY too large and they are WAY too inefficient. If you truly didn't mind it, you wouldn't need to be taxed  |
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Robert Paulson
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March 27, 2014, 04:33:42 PM |
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taxing bitcoin investments is justified.
forcing someone who buys a cup of coffee with bitcoin to check if the coins he used were obtained when the exchange rate was lower than today and then reporting it to the IRS IS NOT justified.
this will move people away from using bitcoin as money.
Unless you buy $600 worth of coffee from the same entity, your example probably doesn't apply. But keep repeating it, by all means. Consult a tax professional. what if i want to buy a cellphone with bitcoins. o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS... guess ill just use my credit card then... |
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Hqen2000
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Activity: 35
Merit: 0
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March 27, 2014, 04:37:56 PM |
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taxing bitcoin investments is justified.
forcing someone who buys a cup of coffee with bitcoin to check if the coins he used were obtained when the exchange rate was lower than today and then reporting it to the IRS IS NOT justified.
this will move people away from using bitcoin as money.
Unless you buy $600 worth of coffee from the same entity, your example probably doesn't apply. But keep repeating it, by all means. Consult a tax professional. what if i want to buy a cellphone with bitcoins. o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS... guess ill just use my credit card then... Wow. Way to make such a simple task sound complex! /start report/ 500 - 629.99 = 129.99 /end report/ This will not even be a factor for normal purchases. Now if you are a distributor and are buying 32,000 phones, then the math is important. But wait, you are a business parson, you shouldn't be afraid of taxes and math if that's the case. So complexity of doing this really isn't a factor. |
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nitehawk
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March 27, 2014, 04:40:38 PM |
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see this is the way i see it if its property subject to capital gains... then its subject to capital loss as well isnt it ? bought at 1200 sold at 500 .. thats a capital loss and should be able to be written off.. up to 3k http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html |
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amspir
Member
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Activity: 112
Merit: 10
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March 27, 2014, 04:44:56 PM |
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o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS...
Writing it down because your bitcoin wallet is broken? Keeping a record because it's impossible to consult the blockchain later? If you're smart enough to transact bitcoins, I really don't get how you could be too stupid to run your wallet through a TurboTax-Bitcoin app at tax time. |
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Robert Paulson
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March 27, 2014, 04:48:09 PM |
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o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS...
Writing it down because your bitcoin wallet is broken? Keeping a record because it's impossible to consult the blockchain later? If you're smart enough to transact bitcoins, I really don't get how you could be too stupid to run your wallet through a TurboTax-Bitcoin app at tax time. or i can pay with fiat and not have to consult with anything. |
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s_s
Newbie
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Activity: 43
Merit: 0
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March 27, 2014, 04:55:03 PM |
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see this is the way i see it if its property subject to capital gains... then its subject to capital loss as well isnt it ? bought at 1200 sold at 500 .. thats a capital loss and should be able to be written off.. up to 3k http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.htmlYes that is correct. |
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tvbcof
Legendary
 Online
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1276
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March 27, 2014, 04:57:30 PM |
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Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario. The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people. 0%... hard to beat that.
Ya, but you gotta have enough BTC to pay your living expenses so that you stay in the lower two tax brackets....and wish to part with them. I've not done my taxes yet, but I'm anticipating paying a noticeable amount of tax for 2013 because I had the mis-fortune of earning money (hard to avoid.) In 2014 I do intent to fall into the lower brackets for earned income and enjoy a fairly healthy influx of capital for fun stuff. At least if the price does another spike...else I'll HODL and live with what I've pulled already this year. (Std disclaimer: Seek qualified tax advice and not this posting on a forum.)--- As an aside, I feel that the U.S. has basically saved Bitcoin with this ruling. I've long relied on the world's governments to 'save' Bitcoin by making it illegal, but this is even better. Bitcoin would change to something quite different if it had to support the load of a large exchange economy. If it remains a vehicle for speculation (which happens off-chain) and moving relatively large blocks of value around, it could remain similar to it's original implementation in terms of being peer-2-peer. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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amspir
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Activity: 112
Merit: 10
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March 27, 2014, 05:04:26 PM |
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or i can pay with fiat and not have to consult with anything.
From your interest-bearing bank account? If you feel more comfortable with the banker preparing and giving you your 1099DIV for your tax return. Seems to me one of the memes behind bitcoin is "be your own bank". Part of that responsibility generating your own reports for your "interest bearing" bitcoin wallet, so you can pay your tax obligation legally. It seems to me that a bitcoin user has the technology and can find the software to do this himherself. |
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tvbcof
Legendary
Online
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1276
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March 27, 2014, 05:18:26 PM |
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I love how people shit themselves when some dumb govt agency threatens them.
I love how internet tough guys who's net worth amounts to a beater Honda Civic spout off about how they plan to stick it to the man...and somehow feel that everyone else should do so as well if they were not 'cowardly' or 'stupid'. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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tvbcof
Legendary
Online
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1276
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March 27, 2014, 05:25:49 PM |
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As an aside, I feel that the U.S. has basically saved Bitcoin with this ruling. I've long relied on the world's governments to 'save' Bitcoin by making it illegal, but this is even better. Bitcoin would change to something quite different if it had to support the load of a large exchange economy. If it remains a vehicle for speculation (which happens off-chain) and moving relatively large blocks of value around, it could remain similar to it's original implementation in terms of being peer-2-peer.
I had a strong feeling this is exactly what you would say (I've just been waiting for you to say it), and I tend to agree with you. I keep saying that Bitcoin isn't well suited for daily purchases, but fantastic for other things (primarily an asset/store of value that gives me total control). Ya, we seem to be approaching agreement on a fair number of points after all of these years. Probably we never were that far off in the first place in spite of having different centers of mass. I'm sure we both agree that it's been good to be a Bitcoin enthusiast, and one with some analytical bent, over the last few years. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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DeathAndTaxes
Donator
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Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
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March 27, 2014, 05:26:38 PM |
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Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario. The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people. 0%... hard to beat that.
Only for long term capital gains. Short term capital gains (asset held 364 or less days) is taxed at your regular income rate. |
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s_s
Newbie
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Activity: 43
Merit: 0
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March 27, 2014, 05:29:31 PM |
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Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario. The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people. 0%... hard to beat that.
Only for long term capital gains. Short term capital gains (asset held 364 or less days) is taxed at your regular income rate. Which I suspect will lead to less "short term" speculation in Bitcoin...which is perhaps likely to tend towards being better for Bitcoin in the "long term"? |
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seriouscoin
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March 27, 2014, 05:30:55 PM |
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Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario. The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people. 0%... hard to beat that.
Only for long term capital gains. Short term capital gains (asset held 364 or less days) is taxed at your regular income rate. Which I suspect will lead to less "short term" speculation in Bitcoin...which is perhaps likely to tend towards being better for Bitcoin in the "long term"? Yes... i'm sick of the parasites. |
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