Centralised Exchanges are the Biggest Enemies of Bitcoin

[franky1]

How many DEXs were there when Crypto/Bitcoin started?

This is a false equivalence. Centralized exchanges 10 years ago were not anti-bitcoin like the centralized exchanges today are. They did not demand ridiculous amounts of KYC and even go as far as asking your to reveal your employment and income source. They did not arbitrarily lock accounts or seize coins. They did not hire blockchain analysis companies (or event create their own!) to spy on you and monitor your transactions.

exchanges back then were unlicenced.
do you think they had the choice?
hmm..

the thing about exchanges are.. they involve EXCHANGING, meaning FIAT, meaning fiat laws apply
they did not decide one day 'lets spy' they were made to by having to become legitimate if they wanted to continue doing business
when bitcoin got treated as an asset instead of just a product they had to become legitimate money service business. meaning they had to get a MSB licence, or get shut down.
they could no longer get away with being merchants/'goods swappers' they were being treated as potentially illegal currency traders/money service businesses, unless they got licenced

the problem that made them have to go legit was that bitcoin got legitimately recognised as an asset instead of a good/product

you may not like the outcome of this. but atleast learn the how and why, and understand its not the exchanges fault.
the funny thing is that it has been weeks/months since the other draft bills have been doing the rounds on social media, and you still have not learned anything about brokers or MSB's or even regulations to understand the way things work in the real world

here is a hint.
the latest couple draft bill you have been mis-understanding.
the first you have been trying to manipulate into your warped vision.. brokers even in LN channel routes (businesses taking a fee for routing payments) and decentralised exchanges will have to get a MSB licence too.. and no dont you even dare show your idiot side by pretending it only affects developers and miners(reality: they are not brokers).. because showing that side just reveals how much you dont know about what a broker/MSB is,
the second you pretend that it gives strange powers that can be used at a whim without court orders or oversight. (reality is it took out the whimsy of using unapproved laws before said laws got ratified)

exchanges are not the enemies, because that then means that even LN route hubs offering payments for a fee are enemies too.. (oops did i poke your bears softspot) they just become the port border guards of all asset/currency jurisdiction, rather than just a port shipping company moving goods

please take some time to learn
and i suggest with your desires, hopes and DREAMS of your altnet loyalties. LEARN FAST because you will soon realise how your favoured services of your altnet will get affected by this. and no stop the fantasy of thinking it affects devs,miners and leaves your special channel services alone. learn its the opposite it leaves developers and miners alone and affects your special channel services

[Dunamisx]

Big CEXs are killing the original bitcoin spirit by forcing users to pay tax on gains, freezing user's assets, preventing users from using their service depending on their IP and more.

This is horrible. This is not what bitcoin is. This is not freedom. This is not liberty.

Now try to know this, individual have to come to the realization of their access to freedom in decision making, let's take Binance for example, this exchange is know world wide for quality service delivery but lack security privacy, but the choice is yours to choose either to use Binance or not, we have other exchanges, bitcoin wallets that guarantees more than Binance could offer, this is our choice to make a decision as no one is forced to decide on using a particular exchange, if what brings you on Binance is no more there then one can as well quit and sought for alternatives, do you even know some people are the slave master of themselves unknowingly because of lack in knowledge to what they have.

[BitcoinsGreat]

Big CEXs are killing the original bitcoin spirit by forcing users to pay tax on gains, freezing user's assets, preventing users from using their service depending on their IP and more.

There is a more manipulation scene that exists in exchanges where they will liquidate your positions by either freezing the accounts temporarily or moving the market in the direction to hit the stop losses.

Unfortunately we have very few good CEXs which have more liquidity and those CEX exchanges are taking advantage of this and making a lot of money by manipulations.

[Zilon]

First you said Bitcoin is freedom, but the last line you forcing someone to stop using centralized exchanges? this is not 100% freedom. Let alone people to choose which exchanges they use, it's either centralized exchanges, custodial P2P exchanges, or fully decentralized exchanges. There must be a reason why they choose to using any exchanges and the most users prefer to using centralized exchanges. This means they don't care with their privacy concern and their funds partially got controlled by the exchanges.

Which exchange to use is a clearly everyone's choice from what I understand about @ op post. Bitcoin is total freedom only with DEX but centralized exchange is a big treat. It is alarming with the rate at which centralized exchange choke their clients with KYC that are irrelevant atimes. If it was limited to just email address and phone numbers it's would have been a bit fair but it goes all the way to getting identity cards and international passport

[franky1]

There is a more manipulation scene that exists in exchanges where they will liquidate your positions by either freezing the accounts temporarily or moving the market in the direction to hit the stop losses.

Unfortunately we have very few good CEXs which have more liquidity and those CEX exchanges are taking advantage of this and making a lot of money by manipulations.

exchanges dont 'freeze' accounts at a whim. because people can sue businesses that breach certain standards.
yes exchanges can put terms and services for how customers should act while using the service which then gives reason to freeze an account if certain acts are against the business policy or regulation. (so people should read terms and conditions)
yes they can put temporary 'server overload' or 'down for maintenance' pages up but they cant freeze an account at a whim temporarily without reason

as for manipulating. well thats insider trading, which comes with investigations and fines. which is why they wont do it for silly small amounts of only a few customers balance level. it would need to be whole market value amounts to make the risk of fine be worth the possible profit.

it was easily possible 10 years ago to play the markets but these days, they earn enough just servicing customers to not need to also be angering the customers by stopping customers.
yes they can arbitrage their reserves to other exchanges miliseconds before a customer on their market causes a spike or crash. but they cant just play around with your own customers on their own market

EG exchange A sees a potential $1k spike/dip on exchange A by a customer, so exchange A uses its reserves on exchange B to copy that order in milliseconds, thus making exchange B mimic exchange A. (before exchange A's customer order fills to then have that customer to then arbitrage to exchange B for a double sweep)
however exchange A cannot just halt an order of a couple customers repeatedly in exchange A without it causing a few flags of its own oversight popping up which can trigger exchange being investigated for insider trading

[cheezcarls]

I am not saying that CEXs are the biggest “enemies” or “threats” to BTC. It’s just that they have no choice but to comply with the regulatory requirements of a certain country in order for it to operate and become available to those customers (especially sanctions).

I only use CEXs to convert my cryptocurrencies and transfer it to a custodial wallet where I can withdraw it straight to either bank or mobile payment provider. But it’s not a good idea to make CEXs as a storage source if we want to hold BTC or any cryptocurrency.

[worldtraveller321]

majority of the market place is still preferring to use FIAT to get goods and services. Good and services -value and prices like it or not are based on FIAT. not Bitcoin
sure you can use Bitcoin to pay for some goods and services now. However the you are still in the circle of fiat .

Prices are not based on Bitcoin at all.
Therefore it makes more sense to use FIAT.
Bitcoin is just a store of value. that is how the market is taking this.

[franky1]

my gripe with centralised exchanges, is like this
binance has in its terms that it cant serve american/canadian customers.
its HQ is in asia. but its markets revolve around the USD

what exchanges should do is not be so (excuse pun) tethered to the dollar. and instead have separate market order books for different fiat currencies, whereby the markets dont oscillate(move back and forth in a pattern) as a sheep to USD value

for instance OTC/ private exchanges that only operate in asian markets should be at a premium or discount to other markets based on USD.
where the value doesnt peg to USD

 look how sheepish the markets are


again binance does not 'supposedly' service US/canadian customers yet it sheep follows US exchanges.. not closely. but EXACTLY like for like
https://www.binance.com/en/terms

3. Binance Account Registration and Requirements
b. Eligibility
By registering to use a Binance Account, you represent and warrant that (i) as an individual, you are at least 18 or are of legal age to form a binding contract under applicable laws; (ii) as an individual, legal person, or other organization, you have full legal capacity and sufficient authorizations to enter into these Terms; (iii) you have not been previously suspended or removed from using Binance Services; (iv) you do not currently have a Binance Account; (v) you are neither a United States user, a Malaysia user, a Singapore-based user, or an Ontario (Canada)-based user; nor are you acting on behalf of a United States user, a Malaysia user, a Singapore-based user, or an Ontario (Canada)-based user. If you act as an employee or agent of a legal entity, and enter into these Terms on their behalf, you represent and warrant that you have all the necessary rights and authorizations to bind such legal entity; (vi) your use of Binance Services will not violate any and all laws and regulations applicable to you, including but not limited to regulations on anti-money laundering, anti-corruption, and counter-terrorist financing.

this mimicry is too close to be a fluke. after all people in say asia/europe should have different sentiments and trading patterns than say traders in the US.
the reason the markets look the exact same is not from different sentiments of different traders on different markets, but on the central exchanges arbitraging each other to stay on par with each other, rather then letting their customers just play the orders the customers want to play, with their own separate sentiments in different markets

[ethereumhunter]

I don't think CEX is the big enemy of bitcoin but on the contrary, CEX also helps the development of bitcoin to reach more users. The exchange will promote its website to many places to come and join them. When people join, they see there is bitcoin, where bitcoin has an up and down price that they can use to make a profit.

Before bitcoin was popular, centralized exchanges were not as strict as today. As I recall, in the past, at Poloniex, we only needed to register using our email, name, address, and phone number (if I am not mistaken). But after Poloniex became popular, the site made an option for its members to increase their level to level 3 but they need to re-verify. It also happens on other centralized exchange sites because now, the government has tried to intervene and maybe they are pressuring centralized exchanges so that their members do more detailed verification.

[Upgrade00]

I don't think CEX is the big enemy of bitcoin but on the contrary, CEX also helps the development of bitcoin to reach more users.

Exchanges are tools used to trade cryptocurrencies, it does not directly make bitcoin popular or reach more users, rather it is the userbase that makes the exchanges popular. If more people moved over to using decentralized exchanges then it would become as popular and would be said to reach more people.
Centralized exchanges act as intermediate, so trading on such platforms is not really peer to peer or decentralized as bitcoin was meant to be.

[cabron]

There is no problem using CEX even when they are asking KYC and some other stuff that is really not necessary. There is no escape anymore when you have already sent your documents to one of the exchanges. You send to one, it means you are documented. Using BTC is not a crime though.

Not sure if the ideology of BTC is all just about freedom and liberty. After having some BTC for the first time, I felt like I'm not unbanked anymore, this alone does feel freedom to me.

[suzanne5223]

The ideology behind crypto is freedom and liberty from the current government system(s) that are inherently wrong and elitist.

Yes, but there's nothing in this world that can be forever free or give liberty especially when the institutional investor joins the ecosystem and I think we should be ready for what may happen in the future either cause the institutional investor are buying Bitcoin more than we could imagine.

Centralised exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken and Binance take a noble idea of bringing Bitcoin to the masses and mock it by affiliating with governments (and governmental agencies) that the very concept of Bitcoin is designed to rebel against.

Coinbase is the worse among the listed exchange because they have proved to be the worse exchange by following the SEC regulation before every other exchange site implement it.

Big CEXs are killing the original bitcoin spirit by forcing users to pay tax on gains, freezing user's assets, preventing users from using their service depending on their IP and more.

In this situation, the best thing to do is ignore the exchange site that has regulation policies, and use the alternatives. However, I don't blame the big CEX because they are CEX, not DEX, and the last time I check the Bitcoin Foundation and community are to blame for this because Theymos once raised the issue of Elizabeth T which says "The Bitcoin Foundation needs to be prepared and ready to expand in areas of key importance should matter arise such as increased government regulation and a crackdown on Bitcoin related businesses and users.  While increased government regulation is still a potentiality and not necessarily a reality yet, the foundation still needs to work to find a balance between proactivity and preparation for what lies ahead as the currency still grows in prominence.  The Foundation again should work to develop tools and guidance for the Bitcoin community to have on hand should lobbying efforts to need to be carried out in the future. "
But not tangle thing was done

This is horrible. This is not what bitcoin is. This is not freedom. This is not liberty.

The worse is yet to come mate after the institution has understood the benefit of Bitcoin and dominating the market.

[Oceat]

There is no problem using CEX even when they are asking KYC and some other stuff that is really not necessary. There is no escape anymore when you have already sent your documents to one of the exchanges. You send to one, it means you are documented. Using BTC is not a crime though.

Not sure if the ideology of BTC is all just about freedom and liberty. After having some BTC for the first time, I felt like I'm not unbanked anymore, this alone does feel freedom to me.

I agree that there might be no problem using CEX but storing your Bitcoin on it will create a problem. Some of us are against of using CEX because it might actually be killing the liberty of having a BTC on your own but it's a people's choice why CEX are getting popular these days. DEX on the other hand might be striving each day to survive but they still remains strong since there are still people who believe in them and is actually using it until these days.

I think it's not the CEX is the problem here since if we use Bitcoin and at the same time exchange it with fiat then it's just right that they should follow the government rules or they will lose their business.

[Henrobakkara]

The ideology behind crypto is freedom and liberty from the current government system(s) that are inherently wrong and elitist.

HOWEVER

Centralised exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken and Binance take a noble idea of bringing Bitcoin to the masses and mock it by affiliating with governments (and governmental agencies) that the very concept of Bitcoin is designed to rebel against.

Big CEXs are killing the original bitcoin spirit by forcing users to pay tax on gains, freezing user's assets, preventing users from using their service depending on their IP and more.

This is horrible. This is not what bitcoin is. This is not freedom. This is not liberty.

Taxes contribute to the regimes that so many of us are against. How can we continue using companies whose values don't align with ours?

Taxes are theft and fund wars and needless bloodshed in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan and more.

The solution is pretty clear: More projects need to be released that are focused on building sustainable decentralised solutions to enable users to trade and purchase bitcoin (and crypto in general). Right now the main areas of focus need to be security and simple UI/UX interfaces.

And we need to stop using CEX and funding what we are all against.

Is it really the CEXs that force you to pay TAX on gains or your Country? I thought those were fees on trades I believe that traders should know better now not to keep hodling their crypto bags on CEXs, so that they can reduce all these issues of wallet freezing and as for preventing their services to some location, I know some inline stores do that too like they don't ship to your country so not all regions will enjoy every service by some organization or Business.

[verita1]

The approach that OP presents us is given by the relationship that the CEX must have in order to operate. Many don't like CEX because they have to provide their information through KYC/ALM.

I am not against the CEX, on the contrary, I feel safe using their platforms. In fact I learned how to use bitcoin and cryptocurrencies through it and it was the best experience of my life.

If people don't like CEX today there are alternatives like DEXs and a range of opportunities with DeFi.

Since the creation of bitcoin, many things have changed, our ecosystem has grown exponentially trying to follow the ideas of offering us the freedom for which we believe in bitcoin.

[o_e_l_e_o]

There is no problem using CEX even when they are asking KYC and some other stuff that is really not necessary.

Except risking your identity being stolen and all your coins being stolen, scammed, hacked, locked, frozen, etc.

Using BTC is not a crime though.

Irrelevant. You don't need to be doing anything illegal to want to maintain a little bit financial independence and privacy from the prying eyes and fingers of centralized exchanges.

Not sure if the ideology of BTC is all just about freedom and liberty.

Sure, but it's also about trading peer-to-peer and avoiding financial institutions, which is obviously lost if you use a centralized exchange.

[kaya11]

The ideology behind crypto is freedom and liberty from the current government system(s) that are inherently wrong and elitist.

HOWEVER

Centralised exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken and Binance take a noble idea of bringing Bitcoin to the masses and mock it by affiliating with governments (and governmental agencies) that the very concept of Bitcoin is designed to rebel against.

Big CEXs are killing the original bitcoin spirit by forcing users to pay tax on gains, freezing user's assets, preventing users from using their service depending on their IP and more.

This is horrible. This is not what bitcoin is. This is not freedom. This is not liberty.

Taxes contribute to the regimes that so many of us are against. How can we continue using companies whose values don't align with ours?

Taxes are theft and fund wars and needless bloodshed in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan and more.

The solution is pretty clear: More projects need to be released that are focused on building sustainable decentralised solutions to enable users to trade and purchase bitcoin (and crypto in general). Right now the main areas of focus need to be security and simple UI/UX interfaces.

And we need to stop using CEX and funding what we are all against.

I understand ehat you are trying point out but as of now, CEX are needed for adoption. Not all people want revolution, they just want to trade and earn, because exchanges offer a lot and absolutely effective to what most people want today. Look how hey work it out, offering them extra income, staling their coins just a few days and boom, they could earn. So many opportunities unlike decentralized exchange. Only a time when the people don't want to use fiat anymore, or the value of fiat is totally useless. And I think we are somehow getting nearer to that, look at your surroundings, the world is the brink of destruction. Do you think a centralized money is needed on that day? Well that's just my opinion and nothing more.

[hatshepsut93]

Decentralized exchanges are only good for casually exchanging small amounts, not for professional trading and big operations. DEXes still rely on traditional financial system for fiat payments, there's no way around it. So, without centralized exchanges Bitcoin market and price discovery simply won't exist.

[tippytoes]

Decentralized exchanges are only good for casually exchanging small amounts, not for professional trading and big operations. DEXes still rely on traditional financial system for fiat payments, there's no way around it. So, without centralized exchanges Bitcoin market and price discovery simply won't exist.

I can understand the disappointment of the OP but this is the sad reality that we need to accept. These centralized exchanges, if they are operating legally, need to be under the jurisdiction of the government to get their license to operate. And with the license comes with the abiding of the laws and regulations, hence, requiring KYC from all their customers. But to increase adoption, we need CEXs, as many people are confident on using these trading platforms. Aside from that, they can find important coins to trade in CEXs, whereas, in DEXs, the tokens are limited.

[famososMuertos]

...//...::

I believe in the premise of bitcoin, I'm pro bitcoin, but it's not these companies that "kill" the original idea of ​​bitcoin, it's the users, it's us, the technological tool is already there, but we've misused it.

Let's not look to third parties to blame, we are more than them (these exchange owners), but we don't organize ourselves, we don't trust ourselves, trust is one of the main tools that brought bitcoin to the position it has today.

Let's start with something...let's push a massive withdrawal of money from traditional banks, let's start withdrawing bitcoin from centralized exchanges and trust the concept of "decentralization"...such a thing is not possible today, but I don't lose hope hope that in the maturing of the ideal of that basic premise "financial freedom" we will reach at least a balance between those who think that this right exists and between those who want to remain dominated, by the way, and include a third group that will surely always want to exist in those two incomprehensible sides "freedom and not freedom".