Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers

[LoyceV]

you must heat (make it hot) your Stamps

Heating your stamps will weaken them. If anything, you can heat the washers, but those metal stamps are designed to be used on cold metal. They're hard enough, just hit them with a hammer.

[o_e_l_e_o]

even though the welder uses them to print the seed phrase

So you gave your seed phrase over to someone else and had them engrave the plates for you? That's a big mistake! If you have any coins on the seed phrase you handed over you should move them ASAP.

I have to say as well, those weight plates look like cast iron without any protective coating, and they already look pretty badly rusted. I think there is a risk of your seed phrase becoming illegible over a long enough time frame here.

[hZti]

You don't need to heat the seed phrase to be able to stamp them in a washer and also there is absolutely no reason to stamp the seed phrase in your gym equipment If your welder tells you that only he can stamp it because it needs to be heated I m 100 % shure he wants to steal your coins in the future. So send all your funds to a newly generated wallet with a different seed phrase ASAP. Take that new seed phrase and secure it secretly, not in plain sight on your gym equipment.

[m2017]

Finally

I really appreciate your presentation and also today I came to know about washers which can be used to secure seed phrase although it will be very difficult for me to have washer in my village but that not withstanding I can use something else to secure my phrase and also present it here. So don't be confused. I am your boy that always learning from you.

If washers are difficult to find in your village, then this is not a problem. You can print seed phrase on any pieces of metal you can find. Ideally, it should be stainless steel, but you can also use aluminum, copper, brass (only given that these metals are subject to destruction under certain conditions, which means they are not suitable for storage for a very long period), etc. Washers are just a starting point for your imagination, which gives you an idea of ​​how you can save seed phrase. There is a wide field for creativity and experimentation. In the absence of washers, a square, hexagon or other shape can be cut out of metal. Drill a hole in the center of each such plate and connect them with a bolt and nut. On the free areas of the plates, apply the text you need. You didn't have any problems engraving text on dumbbell discs, therefore, if you wish, it will not be difficult to implement the method I proposed.

As i can see in the picture, you have painted over the text on the disks. This is certainly good for safety, but it is not clear to us on this forum what the result of your labors looks like. Could you show at least 1 random letter so that bitcointalk community can appreciate what the seed phrase engraving on gym discs looks like?

[fillippone]

even though the welder uses them to print the seed phrase

So you gave your seed phrase over to someone else and had them engrave the plates for you? That's a big mistake!

@o_e_l_e_o is correct. The whole point of the guide is to have the washers stamped without anyone having the clue of what you are doing with this very common hardware.

Giving your seeds to someone to print it is the most basic error you could do in seeds management.
I can’t believe you have done such a stupid thing.

[TheBeardedBaby]

I love the idea to save your seed phrase on a washers or metal in general.

In this case I think I went a bit too far with it.



I can post the results later if anyone is interested

Made a test piece here... made it less visible on purpose.

[hZti]

I love the idea to save your seed phrase on a washers or metal in general.

SNIP SNIP

Can you explain more about the equipment that you used and is this an offline process or how do you create the files that the machine can read? Also is it easily possible to scan such an QR Code with a Smartphone?

[fillippone]

I love the idea to save your seed phrase on a washers or metal in general.

SNIP SNIP

Can you explain more about the equipment that you used and is this an offline process or how do you create the files that the machine can read? Also is it easily possible to scan such an QR Code with a Smartphone?

I think it is one of those beast:
 


https://www.sic-marking.com/e-mark-cordless-marking-system

[n0nce]

I love the idea to save your seed phrase on a washers or metal in general.

SNIP SNIP

Can you explain more about the equipment that you used and is this an offline process or how do you create the files that the machine can read? Also is it easily possible to scan such an QR Code with a Smartphone?

I think it is one of those beast:
 


https://www.sic-marking.com/e-mark-cordless-marking-system

Its integrated software and keyboard, and icon-driven menus allow for the creation and modification of markings directly on the portable marking machine. The software is continuously revamped to increase the ease of use and flexibility

Wow, that looks great!

Good job TheBeardedBaby; this looks like a cool alternative to basically all other methods which require to stamp every letter individually by hand. It's a little bit exhausting. Typing the seed on the device itself is great for security, as it's basically 'air-gapped', right. May I ask how much such a machine costs? It doesn't look very cheap, but I love the end result.

[fillippone]

I can post the results later if anyone is interested

I am very interested in your review of this machine.

I have only the doubt about the costs, and the fact that, being quite a specific industrial machine, someone could be suspectful of the usage if shipped to a private customer.

[TheBeardedBaby]

I can post the results later if anyone is interested

I am very interested in your review of this machine.

I have only the doubt about the costs, and the fact that, being quite a specific industrial machine, someone could be suspectful of the usage if shipped to a private customer.

I would gladly make a review when I'm back from vacation.
Just some quick info.
In general, it's a great dot peen type for marking any metal surfaces, stainless steel, iron, no problem.
It comes with a software and you can design the labels on the computer, then transfer the files via USB stick or another clever option is to create a barcode for the label, print it out on paper and there's a wireless barcode scanner (I think it's an option, depending on the package) when connected to the machine and when you scan the code, you can directly load the label from that barcode.
You can adjust the hardness of punching, you can also crate and punch logos.
Of course, the price (of a new one) is almost as the price of a 10 years old VW up! but it's a hell of a machine. If you are lucky to put your hands on one of those you won't regret.

Does not support QR codes, at least not by default, you can upload a QR code in form of picture.
Can use datamatrix code and it comes in a nice suitcase with spare battery and spare needle.
I think it's about 3 kg, quite heavy but there's conformable handle to hold it, and you can make a small stand for if you planning to punch series of plates.

That's for now, I'll take some pics when I'm back
 

[fillippone]

On the Italian thread, someone suggested a less hardcore capital intensive alternative: a laser engraving frame.


I like this badass toy more.. I can’t wait to have some test by you @TheBeardedBaby.

[aysg76]

May I ask how much such a machine costs? It doesn't look very cheap, but I love the end result.

Was also interested in knowing the price and searched for it on their site but didn't find out the pricing manual and on other sites also they show that we need to ask for quotation after filling a form with our details

Industry Plaza e-mark machine

So it seems we have to ask for quotation or the man here can tell us the exact price for it.

This machine is really cool like the lithium ion 18V battery with capacity to mark on the metals like steel upto 62HRC and you can plug in USB cables also for file transfer and then choose the options from screen on the beast and have watched this video from SIC official YouTube channel

SIC e- mark machine This is cool and was out of our sight for so many years and thanks @TheBeardedBaby for bringing this up and would like to see more detailed review about it's usage from you once you are back.

[m2017]

TheBeardedBaby first intrigued the machine, and then forces us all to wait! How cruel it is. We are already waiting for a detailed review and an approximate price.

Since this machine is industrial or for professional work, the price should be significant, as many of you assume. Undoubtedly, the result of this machine is amazing, but buying one will be unnecessarily expensive for the sake of a few seed-phrases and until you play enough with applying text to everything that comes to hand in your home.

I hope some startup will figure it out before others and create a simpler analogue for a reasonable price for bitcoiners. Such a machine can be a success. At what price would you be willing to buy this?

In addition to a machine review, it would be nice to do tests for the strength of the text, because the marking depth is only 0.3 mm. Whether the text will be vulnerable to scratches and other mechanical impacts that prevent further readability.


Copied info from the manufacturer's website https://www.sic-marking.com/e-mark-cordless-marking-system (so that the characteristics are in this topic):

Mechanic features
Dimensions: 288 x 271 x 135 mm (11.34" x 10.67" x 5.3")
Marking Types: Alphanumeric, Variable (serial or text), Datamatrix Code, and Logo
Marking Window: 60 x 25 mm (2.36" x 0.98")
Weight: 3.2 kg (7 lbs.)

Electronic features
Memory: 100 MB
LCD color screen: 320 x 240 Pixel
Keyboard: integrated Overlay Membrane
Power: 100 Watt
18V Li-ion 18V Battery: 4 Hours Marking Autonomy (normal use)

Steering software
Marking Types: Alphanumeric, Variable (serial or text), Datamatrix Code, and Logo
Transfer of Marking Files: Via USB Key
Fonts: 4x6, Arial, Courier, OCR, OCR-A, OCR_BOLD, Comic, and Comic_B
File Editing and Creation: Complete Set-Up of All Parameters
Impact Force: 1 to 9
Marking Depth: 0.3 mm (may vary depending on the material being marked)
Resolution Between Dots: 0.05 mm
Password: 1 level

[TheBeardedBaby]

Wow, I never thought that this machine would draw so much  interest.
Regarding the price, I'll quote my previous commet.

Of course, the price (of a new one) is almost as the price of a 10 years old VW up! but it's a hell of a machine. If you are lucky to put your hands on one of those you won't regret.

The Initial investment is serious but you can make a ton of money providing marking service or renting it out.
I promise I'll do a nice review when I get the time.

[LoyceV]

you can make a ton of money providing marking service or renting it out.

Who's going to rent a device to "print" their seed phrase? That seems risky!

[TheBeardedBaby]

you can make a ton of money providing marking service or renting it out.

Who's going to rent a device to "print" their seed phrase? That seems risky!

I'm not talking about renting it to make seed phrase backups, that's still "electronic device" and even if you delete the seed file, for sure there will be a way to recover it.
There are many small manufacturers which could use your service. Of course, all depends from where you are located. In a rural farmlands you won't have that much marking there to do for sure
As I said in my first post, buying this machine only for making seed backups is an overkill.

For a fraction of the price of the e-mark you could get this >


It will do the same job, not that nice and not that fast but way cheaper

[fillippone]

It will do the same job, not that nice and not that fast but way cheaper

I don’t like it.
Or you go full badass overkill mode with the E Mark 18v or you go the smart way with washers, sledgehammer, and anvil.
There is no way in the middle!

/j

This is interesting, but it would require at least a metallic normograph for clear lettering.
At this point I would choose the laser engraving frame proposed on the Italian thread.

On a side note I had to check what is this price everyone is talking about:
Roughly 0.25 BTC (one week worth of sig campaign in the good ol’time).

[n0nce]

Proton is really cool alternative but remember the password as recovering it is hard because it's not your normal email that can be reset with anyone.

ProtonMail now offer account recovery using 12-word seed phrases. Go to Settings -> Recovery, then scroll to the bottom and hit "Generate new recovery phrase".

I just learned from o_e_l_e_o that the privacy-focused email provider proton.me, which some of you may be using, now offers to create 12-word recovery phrases for your email account.
This will be another useful application for this seed phrase backup technique. After all, these washer backups are dirt cheap after initial investment for the equipment.
Just wanted to let all the 'washer guys' (? ) here know about it in case they're interested..

[fillippone]

Just wanted to let all the 'washer guys' (? ) here know about it in case they're interested..

Very interesting thanks.
It’s the first time I see a seed outside the bitcoin protocol.
But yeah, for sure you can use the same technique!