How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[Snowshow]

So, how can the bitcoin holders utilize bitcoins if nobody wants to buy bitcoins?

(Requires actually owning Bitcoin)

• You can still send and receive Bitcoin even if no one buys them.
• You can cryptographically sign messages.
• You can immortalise not censorable messages on the chain(Julian Assange proved he was alive like this)
• Becoming censorship resitant/ have un-confiscatable assets.

(Makes it more likely if you’ve been into Bitcoin)

• Learning about how to apply cryptography in practice.
• Run a node to learn more about computer science.
• Inspect the code/ processes to learn about how to handle production software well.
• Learning about P2P networks.
• Learning more about software engineering.
• Learning about game theory.
• Learning about economics and human nature.
• Learning how money functions.
• Understand why decentralization matters.
• Recognise the flaws in our current system.
• Meet amazing people who are withstanding the highest hostility possible, to keep freedom alive.
• Learn more about physics/ engineering to make mining more efficient/ utilise it differently.
• Recognize bs even faster

See even if this thing doesnt bring in any profits/ money, the value is infinite for people who use it correctly. This list can for sure grow a lot longer.

Now:

• How can you personally utilise gold without being a goldsmith, if no one accepts it anymore?
• How can you use fiat when no accepts it anymore?

You’re touching the non productive nature of money, without realising this applies to any monetary good, and Bitcoin might not even be bad compared to previous forms of money. The barrier to even understand Bitcoin is high for many people, once you really understand it, you’ll touch so many different fields, because it’s requires this to really get there.

That has nothing to do with utilization, but is just nonsense created in your imagination. If bitcoin can be utilized, then a person that has 1,000,000 BTC, in comparation with a person that has 0.0001 BTC, must be able to get 10,000,000,000 more benefit without selling BTC to someone else. But obviously this is impossible. Because BTC is a number. Mathematical abstraction with zero utilization capacity. It's mind boggling how much stupidity you're are capable to produce only to try to defend undefendable.

...

"impossible" you say, well guess what, I have done the "impossible".   ... I'll use simpler numbers for the example, but it would still apply to your larger numbers.

A few years ago I bought a piece of hardware for 5 bitcoins.  After the exchange was made, I received the piece of hardware that I wanted, and the builders of that hardware received my 5 bitcoins.

But here is the interesting part that relates to your "impossible" scenario:  ... Someone else, call them "Bob", that wanted ten pieces of the same hardware, that I had just purchased, would have needed to spend 50 bitcoins.

And so here we have the impossible happening: someone named Bob, once their purchase goes through, was able to get ten times the value for their 50 bitcoins than I did with my 5 bitcoins.

This all happened without the exchange of any dollars, or any other foreign currency.

That with your hardware wasn't an exchange. Because, you didn't provide a resource to the builders of that hardware. They simply joined Nakamoto fraudulent investment schemes and were labeled with number 5 for joining.

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[ObscurePen]

Bitcoin does NOT have scarcity because it is capped at 21 million. This is like saying that O2 molecules have scarcity because they are put in a container that by that definition can take only limited number of those molecules. In the same way Nakamoto put limited amount of numbers (21 million) in their container and gave them the name bitcoins. That doesn't make these numbers scarce, because numbers are all around us, just like O2 molecules.

I'm afraid I don't agree with you about this. Scarcity is simply a characteristic of anything (resource, money, time) that directly relates to its supply. Bitcoin is capped at 21 million. There can only ever be 21 million coins in circulation ever. No one can mint more. Thus it has scarcity. It like renewable energy vs non-renewable. Non-renewable energy has scarcity as there is a limited reserve of non-renewables. Ideally renewable energy does not have a scarcity as it is a constant supply. Thus technically the cost of renewables is simply manufacturing costs. Whereas for non-renewable you would be factoring in supply vs demand. Thus supply/demand dynamics also relate to Bitcoin because of its scarcity. This is what gives Bitcoin its value.

P.S. You can transcribe value of one resource only to another resource. Because resources provide utility and it's is utilities of the resources what is transcribed.
Bitcoin is a number that you get next to your address, not a resource that provides utility which is why there's nothing to transcribe to.

The dollar or any fiat is essentially backed by assets held by the central bank. Thus the value of the dollar is determined by the assets that it is backed by. I think perhaps what you mean is that Bitcoin has no asset backing it, like the dollar or other fiat. But that is because Bitcoin is largely an asset, not really a currency.

[arcmetal]

So, how can the bitcoin holders utilize bitcoins if nobody wants to buy bitcoins?

(Requires actually owning Bitcoin)

• You can still send and receive Bitcoin even if no one buys them.
• You can cryptographically sign messages.
• You can immortalise not censorable messages on the chain(Julian Assange proved he was alive like this)
• Becoming censorship resitant/ have un-confiscatable assets.

(Makes it more likely if you’ve been into Bitcoin)

• Learning about how to apply cryptography in practice.
• Run a node to learn more about computer science.
• Inspect the code/ processes to learn about how to handle production software well.
• Learning about P2P networks.
• Learning more about software engineering.
• Learning about game theory.
• Learning about economics and human nature.
• Learning how money functions.
• Understand why decentralization matters.
• Recognise the flaws in our current system.
• Meet amazing people who are withstanding the highest hostility possible, to keep freedom alive.
• Learn more about physics/ engineering to make mining more efficient/ utilise it differently.
• Recognize bs even faster

See even if this thing doesnt bring in any profits/ money, the value is infinite for people who use it correctly. This list can for sure grow a lot longer.

Now:

• How can you personally utilise gold without being a goldsmith, if no one accepts it anymore?
• How can you use fiat when no accepts it anymore?

You’re touching the non productive nature of money, without realising this applies to any monetary good, and Bitcoin might not even be bad compared to previous forms of money. The barrier to even understand Bitcoin is high for many people, once you really understand it, you’ll touch so many different fields, because it’s requires this to really get there.

That has nothing to do with utilization, but is just nonsense created in your imagination. If bitcoin can be utilized, then a person that has 1,000,000 BTC, in comparation with a person that has 0.0001 BTC, must be able to get 10,000,000,000 more benefit without selling BTC to someone else. But obviously this is impossible. Because BTC is a number. Mathematical abstraction with zero utilization capacity. It's mind boggling how much stupidity you're are capable to produce only to try to defend undefendable.

...

"impossible" you say, well guess what, I have done the "impossible".   ... I'll use simpler numbers for the example, but it would still apply to your larger numbers.

A few years ago I bought a piece of hardware for 5 bitcoins.  After the exchange was made, I received the piece of hardware that I wanted, and the builders of that hardware received my 5 bitcoins.

But here is the interesting part that relates to your "impossible" scenario:  ... Someone else, call them "Bob", that wanted ten pieces of the same hardware, that I had just purchased, would have needed to spend 50 bitcoins.

And so here we have the impossible happening: someone named Bob, once their purchase goes through, was able to get ten times the value for their 50 bitcoins than I did with my 5 bitcoins.

This all happened without the exchange of any dollars, or any other foreign currency.

That with your hardware wasn't an exchange. Because, you didn't provide a resource to the builders of that hardware. They simply joined Nakamoto fraudulent investment schemes and were labeled with number 5 for joining.

So then you are saying that you have a different meaning for the term "exchange".

I showed you a simple example that shows that your "impossible" scenario is easy to pull off, and your response to it is to make up a new meaning for an English word.

This would appear to be heading into wasteful nonsense, or maybe that was your intent.

I just read a series of articles from 1835, written in The Sun, a New York newspaper.  In which Sir John Herschel, a famous astronomer at the time, using his great new telescope "of an entirely new principle", tells us that he has spotted life on the Moon.  And that these creatures are humanoid in shape but with wings, like that of a bat.  He is calling them "bat-like winged humanoids", or rather "Vespertilio-homo".

This is were we get the term "Moon bats".



The image above is a lithograph of what can be seen through the new telescope.

[Snowshow]

Wow.  You look pretty foolish yourself Snowshow.  Sure it is possible that tadamichi might be wrong about some of his assessments of various ways that bitcoin brings value or potentially brings value to the world or to himself, but you show yourself to completely be lacking in imagination or even abilities to attempt to think through a problem - beyond just repeating what you have repeatedly been saying in regards to the ONLY way that bitcoin has value is because other people have to want it or buy into it.  

You are not completely wrong - but you are pretty damned close to being completely wrong - especially when you ongoingly continue to show that you are not even attempting to grapple with any ideas or facts that do not support your own narrow views regarding what value is from your perspective and the various other ways that there could be value objectively or even from the view of other people besides ur lil selfie.

That's as stupid as saying: "The only way fraudulent investment schemes have value is if other people are joining in." Well, the whole point is that such schemes have zero value simply because there are zero resources in them for scheme members to access. And for that reason members must wait for new victims to join in. The same is true in Nakamoto scheme. Bitcoin has zero value because there's zero resources in the scheme for bitcoin holders to access. And that's why these holders must wait for new victims to join in and bring the resources.

It's crazy how vehemently you ignore this simple and only relevant fact and just write endless rants about completely irrelevant things.

Do you even know how to attempt to engage and grapple with actual issues that you seem to be striving to want to discuss (or at least spin from your perspective)?

You seem smart enough, but likely your handlers want you to spin rather than to actually attempt to engage with what makes things valuable such as bitcoin as compared with other assets including a vast array of the ones touched upon in this thread, including but not limited to currencies, pms such as gold, equities, property (personal and real estate - which may also include business property).. there are goods and services too... but then there are also various intangibles that seem even more difficult for you to grasp.. such as privacy, personal/financial security, freedom, autonomy, value preservation and transmission through time.  At least, we did not get too much into shitcoin discussions, even though the various financializations around shitcoins, ICOs, Defi, NFTs and yield products are not completely removed from considerations regarding value and even the concept of scams, deceptions and ponzis (intentional or accidental).

Probably there aren't too many of who really want to be interacting with a disingenuine dweeb like you (ain't nobody got time for that), but I must congratulate you on the length of this thread so far, and sure there are some good ideas in this thread.. so long as peeps do not get too much caught up in reading the meandering ideas in your posts.

You keep ignoring this discussion and just repeat irrelevant issues and bitcoin propaganda.

No I don't.  I post what I believe is responsive and relevant to the discussion.

Try for a change actually respond to the issue which this discussion is about. It is explained in the OP and rephrased in my last response:

No need.  I already did what is supposed to be done from my own perspective.  There is no need for me to try any harder merely because you want to have a different conversation about mostly nonsense.  I have at  least attempted to bring some meaning to the whole matter - and you have shown your self to be a pretty damned bad judge of meaning and relevance..

"...Well, the whole point is that such schemes have zero value simply because there are zero resources in them for scheme members to access. And for that reason members must wait for new victims to join in. The same is true in Nakamoto scheme. Bitcoin has zero value because there's zero resources in the scheme for bitcoin holders to access. And that's why these holders must wait for new victims to join in and bring the resources."

I have already responded to this vacuous point as well, to largely show that it is bullshit... and other members have done so too.. quite repeatedly.

You responded to nothing. Let me help you. I am talking about the fact that bitcoin is just a number, a label that you get when joining Nakamoto scheme and that no human being is able to utilize it - which is why everyone must dump that numeric label to someone else. Only in that way people can get the resources and have the utility. That's essentially what I am saying.

In order to respond properly to the above, you have to show that people are able to utilize bitcoins without dumping them to someone else. Gold can be utilized as a metal for various purposes. Debt (recorded with fiat money) is utilized at loan repayments as explained in OP. Bike is utilized for driving. Shares in companies are utilized through access to profits or equity of the companies. So, no need to dump them to someone else. Now you explain how bitcoin can be utilized without dumping it to someone else.

Nothing else is important for this topic. You must show that people are able to utilize bitcoin. Also, a guy with 10 bitcoins in comparison to a guy with  0.1 bitcoin, must be able to get 100 times more utility if bitcoin is able to be utilized.

So, stop writing endless rants about irrelevant issues and try to address the issue this topic is about.

[Snowshow]

Bitcoin does NOT have scarcity because it is capped at 21 million. This is like saying that O2 molecules have scarcity because they are put in a container that by that definition can take only limited number of those molecules. In the same way Nakamoto put limited amount of numbers (21 million) in their container and gave them the name bitcoins. That doesn't make these numbers scarce, because numbers are all around us, just like O2 molecules.

I'm afraid I don't agree with you about this. Scarcity is simply a characteristic of anything (resource, money, time) that directly relates to its supply. Bitcoin is capped at 21 million. There can only ever be 21 million coins in circulation ever. No one can mint more. Thus it has scarcity. It like renewable energy vs non-renewable. Non-renewable energy has scarcity as there is a limited reserve of non-renewables. Ideally renewable energy does not have a scarcity as it is a constant supply. Thus technically the cost of renewables is simply manufacturing costs. Whereas for non-renewable you would be factoring in supply vs demand. Thus supply/demand dynamics also relate to Bitcoin because of its scarcity. This is what gives Bitcoin its value.

P.S. You can transcribe value of one resource only to another resource. Because resources provide utility and it's is utilities of the resources what is transcribed.
Bitcoin is a number that you get next to your address, not a resource that provides utility which is why there's nothing to transcribe to.

The dollar or any fiat is essentially backed by assets held by the central bank. Thus the value of the dollar is determined by the assets that it is backed by. I think perhaps what you mean is that Bitcoin has no asset backing it, like the dollar or other fiat. But that is because Bitcoin is largely an asset, not really a currency.

But bitcoin is a number. Numbers are infinite in quantity. Just because you set up a protocol that the maximum sum of numbers in your system is 10, that doesn't mean units of that number are scarce. Units of the number 10 are numbers. And numbers are infinite in quantity.

It's literally unbelievable that you people cannot comprehend something so simple and because of that you buy numbers that everyone can create in their mind and put on whatever media.

[darkv0rt3x]

Bitcoin does NOT have scarcity because it is capped at 21 million.

This is the most hilarious thing ive read from you in a long time. Scarcity means the supply relative to other goods. You cant get more than 21 million Bitcoin no matter how hard you will try, or how many numbers exist. It cant get more scarce than this.

This is like saying that O2 molecules have scarcity because they are put in a container that by that definition can take only limited number of those molecules. In the same way Nakamoto put limited amount of numbers (21 million) in their container and gave them the name bitcoins. That doesn't make these numbers scarce, because numbers are all around us, just like O2 molecules.  

This is like thinking land on earth isnt scarce too, because theres trillions of other planets that have land too.

P.S. You can transcribe value of one resource only to another resource. Because resources provide utility and it's is utilities of the resources what is transcribed.
Bitcoin is a number that you get next to your address, not a resource that provides utility which is why there's nothing to transcribe to.

K i have a simple question for you, what is the task of money? Why didnt we keep doing barter?

There's one problem in you thinking. Bitcoin is a number. Just because numbers in Nakamoto scheme are limited that doesn't make them scarce. Numbers are all around us. So basically, a person or a group of people put numbers in the box, give them the name "bitcoin" and convince you to purchase numbers because bitcoins are limited. Which is as stupid as putting air in the box, giving the air in the box the name "boxair", and convincing people to purchase air because boxair is limited. Hahaha. You people are the participants in the stupidity never seen in human history.

That's one of your problems. Narrow mind and vision. Bitcoin is not just a number. It's way more than that. And the 21 millions are 21 millions. It doesn't matter if there are more numbers.
Once more, define scarce. When you say scarce you have to compare two things. You're not doing such!
Nobody put nothing in anything, that's just your useless opinion. Once more, 0 facts! But keep going, you're giving me sats!

After purchasing bitcoins you have number. Nothing else. No resource to utilize. Just number next to your address. Every idiot can create a scheme that attributes numbers to people's addresses. There's no scarcity in this. You people are literally buying numbers that you can create by yourself for free. Such stupidity was never witnessed in human history.

After I buy Bitcoins, I have the best asset in the world. That's it, no matter how mad you are with it. You're just jeaslous that you probably haven't onbaorded and you're soared as fuck! Well, HFSP. I can exchange my Bitcoins for many things that I assign value to, so, Bitcoin is doing exactly the same thing you say the shiat money is doing! You just don't want to admit!

After you buy bitcoin, you have number next to your address. Nothing else. That's reality. Everything else is your imagination.

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

[darkv0rt3x]

The dollar or any fiat is essentially backed by assets held by the central bank. Thus the value of the dollar is determined by the assets that it is backed by. I think perhaps what you mean is that Bitcoin has no asset backing it, like the dollar or other fiat. But that is because Bitcoin is largely an asset, not really a currency.

Not even that nowadays. Since 1971 that shiat currency is backed by millions and millions of nothing! The only thing keeping value is the sheep (the people) that were fouled by governments believing that what the state says is valid. So, the value shiat money has, is backed by trust... Trust can't even be quantized, for fuck sake. This @Snowshow is defending who know what! He's just trying to make a non-sense point of his opinion which has as much value as his shiat money!

[tadamichi]

You responded to nothing. Let me help you.

What is mindblowing to me is that you have the audacity to say this to the person who still treated you fair and responded constructively, even after the all the bs you produced.

I am talking about the fact that bitcoin is just a number

Not every number is a Bitcoin, just writing 1 on a piece of paper wont grant you access to the private key necessary to an address with 1 Bitcoin on it. But Bitcoin isnt just a number its a full peer to peer electronic cash system. We already understood that you prefer to account in cows(with the fetish of barter you keep expressing), but you can even break this down to numbers, by counting how many cows(resources) you have. Numbers are simply the most efficient way to account for something, so Bitcoin uses numbers as a unit of account, it would be a problem if it didnt.

In order to respond properly to the above, you have to show that people are able to utilize bitcoins without dumping them to someone else.

People already did, its proven in reality. You dont have the authority to decide what counts as utilisation and what not, in the first place. If i sign a cryptographic message on the most uncensorable network, its utilisation. If i send or recieve Bitcoin, without selling/ buying them, its utilisation. If i store messages on a public ledger, like satoshi did on Block 0, its utilisation. If theres ways to use Bitcoin as a base protocol to provide security/ enable different networks, its utilisation. We are just at the tip of the iceberg, this is an innovation in computer science with many more applications in the future possibly.

which is why everyone must dump that numeric label to someone else

Its like you found out what a market is, then had to think of a way to turn it/ rephrase into something negative and then refuse to apply this logic to anything outside of Bitcoin. Your whole talk is to take something and then find ways to make it seem like a problem, when in reality you are the problem, and other people are happy to use the systems we have now and value the work other people did for them.

Gold can be utilized as a metal for various purposes.

We know, but how many times did you actually yourself? And how many times does the regular person do it? An individual probably used Bitcoin more for non monetary purposes, than previous forms of money like gold or fiat.

Debt (recorded with fiat money) is utilized at loan repayments as explained in OP.

Bitcoin is used for this purpose too, there is even a whole loan marketplace in Bitcoin on this forum.

Shares in companies are utilized through access to profits or equity of the companies.

Its simply acquiring a fraction of a company, theres no guarantee of profit or anything. You can only buy them on a regulated market as a regular person, when a company is public. Companies dump and buy shares on the market themselves, they actually do what youre assuming about Bitcoin to their own investors, dont make a religion out of economics and assume everyone else is a selfless value providing angel.

You must show that people are able to utilize bitcoin. Also, a guy with 10 bitcoins in comparison to a guy with  0.1 bitcoin, must be able to get 100 times more utility if bitcoin is able to be utilized.

We did and again its not something negative that Bitcoin provides utility to everyone, even if they have less of it. This is something positive and not something negative.

And then to your ridiculous requirement. A person with 10 Bitcoin could also split their Bitcoin into more different addresses, than a person with 0.1 Bitcoin. So they could sign more messages on different Bitcoin addresses, for whatever purpose this serves, but its more utilisation. They can also make more transactions before running out of Bitcoin, than a person with less Bitcoin, so again they can utilise it more. With more Bitcoin they can also open more/ higher funded channels on different networks like lightning, which actually influences how many transactions they can route on this other network, because they provided higher liquidity, giving them more income from routing in the other network.

Theres many examples of how a person with more Bitcoin gets 100 times more utility out of it, without having ever touched a Bitcoin/Fiat market.

Your whole existence here in the last months was gaining primary school level knowledge about something and then thinking on how to rephrase it into something negative. Are you a journalist? (No attack against journalists who still do their job, i respect them even more)

[Snowshow]

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

Now you've just described the process of joining Nakamoto scheme: someone give you a resource, and you sent them a number. They gave you a resource people can utilize, and you gave them a numeric label that shows they have joined Nakamoto scheme just like people got some kind of a label when they joined Bernie Madoff's scheme.

The dollar or any fiat is essentially backed by assets held by the central bank. Thus the value of the dollar is determined by the assets that it is backed by. I think perhaps what you mean is that Bitcoin has no asset backing it, like the dollar or other fiat. But that is because Bitcoin is largely an asset, not really a currency.

Not even that nowadays. Since 1971 that shiat currency is backed by millions and millions of nothing! The only thing keeping value is the sheep (the people) that were fouled by governments believing that what the state says is valid. So, the value shiat money has, is backed by trust... Trust can't even be quantized, for fuck sake. This @Snowshow is defending who know what! He's just trying to make a non-sense point of his opinion which has as much value as his shiat money!

Let me repeat what I already explained. Fiat money is numbers that represent the quantity of debt (loans) created in the banking system. Numbers are not supposed to be backed, but debt. Debt is backed by collaterals. Numbers are just information, like the one you see on invoices about quantity.  Try to educate yourself instead of just repeating nonsense conspiracy theories.

You responded to nothing. Let me help you.

What is mindblowing to me is that you have the audacity to say this to the person who still treated you fair and responded constructively, even after the all the bs you produced.

I am talking about the fact that bitcoin is just a number

Not every number is a Bitcoin, just writing 1 on a piece of paper wont grant you access to the private key necessary to an address with 1 Bitcoin on it. But Bitcoin isnt just a number its a full peer to peer electronic cash system. We already understood that you prefer to account in cows(with the fetish of barter you keep expressing), but you can even break this down to numbers, by counting how many cows(resources) you have. Numbers are simply the most efficient way to account for something, so Bitcoin uses numbers as a unit of account, it would be a problem if it didnt.

In order to respond properly to the above, you have to show that people are able to utilize bitcoins without dumping them to someone else.

People already did, its proven in reality. You dont have the authority to decide what counts as utilisation and what not, in the first place. If i sign a cryptographic message on the most uncensorable network, its utilisation. If i send or recieve Bitcoin, without selling/ buying them, its utilisation. If i store messages on a public ledger, like satoshi did on Block 0, its utilisation. If theres ways to use Bitcoin as a base protocol to provide security/ enable different networks, its utilisation. We are just at the tip of the iceberg, this is an innovation in computer science with many more applications in the future possibly.

which is why everyone must dump that numeric label to someone else

Its like you found out what a market is, then had to think of a way to turn it/ rephrase into something negative and then refuse to apply this logic to anything outside of Bitcoin. Your whole talk is to take something and then find ways to make it seem like a problem, when in reality you are the problem, and other people are happy to use the systems we have now and value the work other people did for them.

Gold can be utilized as a metal for various purposes.

We know, but how many times did you actually yourself? And how many times does the regular person do it? An individual probably used Bitcoin more for non monetary purposes, than previous forms of money like gold or fiat.

Debt (recorded with fiat money) is utilized at loan repayments as explained in OP.

Bitcoin is used for this purpose too, there is even a whole loan marketplace in Bitcoin on this forum.

Shares in companies are utilized through access to profits or equity of the companies.

Its simply acquiring a fraction of a company, theres no guarantee of profit or anything. You can only buy them on a regulated market as a regular person, when a company is public. Companies dump and buy shares on the market themselves, they actually do what youre assuming about Bitcoin to their own investors, dont make a religion out of economics and assume everyone else is a selfless value providing angel.

You must show that people are able to utilize bitcoin. Also, a guy with 10 bitcoins in comparison to a guy with  0.1 bitcoin, must be able to get 100 times more utility if bitcoin is able to be utilized.

We did and again its not something negative that Bitcoin provides utility to everyone, even if they have less of it. This is something positive and not something negative.

And then to your ridiculous requirement. A person with 10 Bitcoin could also split their Bitcoin into more different addresses, than a person with 0.1 Bitcoin. So they could sign more messages on different Bitcoin addresses, for whatever purpose this serves, but its more utilisation. They can also make more transactions before running out of Bitcoin, than a person with less Bitcoin, so again they can utilise it more. With more Bitcoin they can also open more/ higher funded channels on different networks like lightning, which actually influences how many transactions they can route on this other network, because they provided higher liquidity, giving them more income from routing in the other network.

Theres many examples of how a person with more Bitcoin gets 100 times more utility out of it, without having ever touched a Bitcoin/Fiat market.

Your whole existence here in the last months was gaining primary school level knowledge about something and then thinking on how to rephrase it into something negative. Are you a journalist? (No attack against journalists who still do their job, i respect them even more)

All that text but not a single word about how a person can utilize bitcoin without dumping it to someone else. Hahaha.

Let me simplify for you: there are two friends. One just gave a car to get 2 bitcoins. The other gave a couple of dollars to get 0.00001 bitcoin. The first one comes to you and ask: "what utility can I get that will be 200,000 bigger than the utility that my friend will get if no one wants to buy our bitcoins?"

That's a simple practical question. What is your answer?

[FatFork]

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

Now you've just described the process of joining Nakamoto scheme: someone give you a resource, and you sent them a number. They gave you a resource people can utilize, and you gave them a numeric label that shows they have joined Nakamoto scheme just like people got some kind of a label when they joined Bernie Madoff's scheme.

But, in reality, there is NO Nakamoto scheme. It's just another imaginary construct you made up in your head. Sometimes it's fascinating to watch real life debunk a fiction that you'd invented for the purpose of social manipulation . . . but usually, it's just sad and pathetic.

[tadamichi]

All that text but not a single word about how a person can utilize bitcoin without dumping it to someone else. Hahaha.

I answered this, you just lost at your own bs game, you werent even good enough to construct a bs test that Bitcoin cant pass.

And then to your ridiculous requirement. A person with 10 Bitcoin could also split their Bitcoin into more different addresses, than a person with 0.1 Bitcoin. So they could sign more messages on different Bitcoin addresses, for whatever purpose this serves, but its more utilisation. They can also make more transactions before running out of Bitcoin, than a person with less Bitcoin, so again they can utilise it more. With more Bitcoin they can also open more/ higher funded channels on different networks like lightning, which actually influences how many transactions they can route on this other network, because they provided higher liquidity, giving them more income from routing in the other network.

Theres many examples of how a person with more Bitcoin gets 100 times more utility out of it, without having ever touched a Bitcoin/Fiat market.

Let me simplify for you: there are two friends. One just gave a car to get 2 bitcoins. The other gave a couple of dollars to get 0.00001 bitcoin. The first one comes to you ask: "what utility can I get that will be 200,000 bigger than the utility that my friend will get if no one wants to buy our bitcoins?"

That's a simple practical question. What is your answer?

• If you have 200.000 more addresses, you can cryptographically sign 200.000 more messages on different funded addresses.
• You can send out 200.000 more Bitcoin inside the network, you dont need a buyer to send something, you can send to any address without anyones permission.
• You can store 200.000 times more Bitcoin in a permission-less, unconfiscatable way.
• You have collected 200.000 times more Bitcoin.
• You can open 200.000 more channels on lightning for example, if you each fund them with the same amount.
• You can open a channel on lightning with 200.000 times more liquidity, giving 200.000 times more liquidity to the other network.

No single Bitcoin sold, yet a utilisation of 200.000 times more.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

You responded to nothing. Let me help you. I am talking about the fact that bitcoin is just a number, a label that you get when joining Nakamoto scheme and that no human being is able to utilize it - which is why everyone must dump that numeric label to someone else. Only in that way people can get the resources and have the utility. That's essentially what I am saying.

In order to respond properly to the above, you have to show that people are able to utilize bitcoins without dumping them to someone else. Gold can be utilized as a metal for various purposes. Debt (recorded with fiat money) is utilized at loan repayments as explained in OP. Bike is utilized for driving. Shares in companies are utilized through access to profits or equity of the companies. So, no need to dump them to someone else. Now you explain how bitcoin can be utilized without dumping it to someone else.

Nothing else is important for this topic. You must show that people are able to utilize bitcoin. Also, a guy with 10 bitcoins in comparison to a guy with  0.1 bitcoin, must be able to get 100 times more utility if bitcoin is able to be utilized.

I already sufficiently and adequately responded to all of these points.  I have no burdens to show more or to repeat myself as you are proclaiming.

So, stop writing endless rants about irrelevant issues and try to address the issue this topic is about.

Did someone die and put you in charge of my discretion or anything else?  I hope not.  

Accordingly, if I feel like writing more, including but not limited to an "endless rant," about some matter that I believe is helpful or useful to point out within this thread, then I will.  Many of us have probably spent way too much time entertaining you on your various attempts to frame this topic related to whether bitcoin has value and or whether its price adequately reflects it value.  

Surely you have concluded that BTC's value is way less than its price, and seem to be arguing that BTC's price should be at zero in order to be aligned with its value (as you perceive it to be), and I have doubts about anyone who knows much of anything about BTC really agreeing with you in regards to bitcoin's value being zero.

I doubt that we really need to get into too many assessments regarding how much relative value that people place on BTC in relationship to its spot price, and of course those opinions differ quite substantially, including that there may well be close to 99% of the world's population that have not engaged in a sufficient amount of action to actually buy any BTC (or to get involved in BTC - such as buying it), yet I am not going to presume that all no coiners (99% of the world's population) believe that BTC's value is zero like you do.  Maybe we should label those people as pre-coiners rather than no coiners? and it is likely safer to assume that the nocoiners/precoiners have not sufficiently been motivated to take action to buy BTC because they have not figured out a way that they believe BTC might benefit them in the present or future that is sufficient enough for them to either try to figure out how to get some or to start acting in that direction.  There are probably a decent number of them that have no clue what bitcoin is, and surely there are some of them that heard the name bitcoin, and others who think that they know what bitcoin is but have hardly any clue (maybe like you, Snowshow?).

Of course, there are also quite a few folks who believe that BTC's value is greater than its current spot price and even consider the 200-week moving average that is currently at about $22,535 reflects a kind of bottom indicator - especially since the 200-week moving average in bitcoin has historically moved up which means vast majority of time BTC's spot price tends to be quite a lot higher than the 200-week moving average. Again, you can look at the above link that shows bitcoin prices back to 2012 and the 200-week moving average (which is largely a 4-year price average) to see how the 200-week moving average continues to move up and the vast majority of the time, the BTC spot price has been higher than the 200-week moving average.. Of course, there are no guarantees that such ongoing upward trends will continue, but there is no real meaningful or important information to suggest that such upward trending fo the BTC price and also the 200-week moving average will not continue.  So, as I type this post, the BTC's current spot price of $21,350-ish, which is even below the current 200-week moving average seems to reflect a bargain price if using that 200-week moving average as a kind of price bottom indicator.

Again, there are no guarantees in regard to which way BTC's price might go, but it does seem that currently bitcoin does have one of the free-est of trading markets in the world in terms of how it is traded in a variety of locations around the world, many of them 24/7 but not all of them, and of course, BTC can be traded directly between individuals too, used for transactions directly on the blockchain, and through various second layers, including but not limited to lightning network.  

It seems reasonable to speculate that the BTC's spot price is likely to move towards its value in the long run in such a way that with the continued passage of time, BTC spot prices are likely to become less and less volatile, but it could take 100 to 200 years to witness greater stability in the BTC spot price in the event that world-wide adoption continues to increase, which seems to be ongoingly happening (even though sometimes seems to be slowly taking place), but continues to happen, and surely many of us into bitcoin speculate that world-wide adoption will continue to expand which tends to contribute towards continued upward pulls on the BTC price in the coming years.

I also mentioned previously that I believe that bitcoin has a projected value of at least 1,000x the value of gold, and currently the BTC spot price is less than 1/10th Gold's spot price, so surely it could take 100 to 200 years for BTC's spot price to meet up with I believe to be its projected value relative to gold, and I doubt that we even need to sort these kinds of matters out because even if BTC's current or future spot price might not exactly represent the value that various members of the population assign to it, we will likely continue to witness turmoil in the BTC's price in the coming years, and likely ongooing upward pulls on the BTC spot price - even though in the shorter term it is much more difficult to figure out if the BTC price might be going up or down, even though I would consider the 200-week moving average as an ongoingly good BTC price bottom indicator, even though we do have various ongoing macro-issus potentially pulling downwardly on the BTC price and some other leveraging and historical risk-taking mistakes that are getting sorted out currently too.

So even in the real world, if you happen to be correct Snowshow in regards to the BTC value being at or near zero, then in the longer term, we should expect to see a continued gravitation of the BTC price in that ongoing downward direction towards zero, and surely I personally consider it bad financial advice to either refuse to get involved in BTC or to sell your BTC based on beliefs that the BTC price is going down, but people are free to do what they like.. and it seem to me that anyone with an investment timeline of 4-10 years or longer will likely be in profits 4-10 years down the road with their various purchases of BTC today... and of course, there are no guarantees, even though it is quite likely - like I already mentioned, that the ongoing existence of BTC is likely facilitating the largest of wealth transfers in history, even though it could take a while to play out - but the fact that we have such an ongoing transfer of wealth going on through BTC, you should appreciate that I am suggesting that the wealth is being transferred from the folks who do not have BTC to those who do have BTC, even though such wealth transfer is likely to take a long to time to play out (perhaps 100-200 years or longer? and cheaper prices now as compared with the passage of time).

... and of course, there are no guarantees, either.. but good for folks to consider their allocations into bitcoin, and even if you might feel like a bitcoin naysayer, it still seems prudent to get some kind of allocation, even if it is on the low end of the 1-25% initial allocation that I recommend.  The more bullish folks might well gravitate towards higher allocations and the more bearish folks towards the lower end, and we have also seen in recent times that conservative investors who are not overleveraging themselves in their bitcoin investment are likely going to do better than those who are either gambling with their BTC or overly leveraging it.

By the way Snowshow, even a seemingly dumb fuck like you, may well be better off to make sure that he has at least a 1% allocation in bitcoin in case you are wrong about bitcoin going to zero.. and probably you already have BTC anyhow.. I am not even going to concede that you are that dumb to really believe all the bullshit that you are spreading.  Maybe even your handlers are paying you in BTC, no?

[Snowshow]

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

Now you've just described the process of joining Nakamoto scheme: someone give you a resource, and you sent them a number. They gave you a resource people can utilize, and you gave them a numeric label that shows they have joined Nakamoto scheme just like people got some kind of a label when they joined Bernie Madoff's scheme.

But, in reality, there is NO Nakamoto scheme. It's just another imaginary construct you made up in your head. Sometimes it's fascinating to watch real life debunk a fiction that you'd invented for the purpose of social manipulation . . . but usually, it's just sad and pathetic.

Yes, it's a scheme, it was Nakamoto's plan to introduce a system where people put resources in, and get numeric labels in return. Labels , instead of another type of resources. All fraudulent investment plans use some kind of labels to inform people they joined the scheme. Nakamoto's plan uses numeric labels.

All that text but not a single word about how a person can utilize bitcoin without dumping it to someone else. Hahaha.

I answered this, you just lost at your own bs game, you werent even good enough to construct a bs test that Bitcoin cant pass.

And then to your ridiculous requirement. A person with 10 Bitcoin could also split their Bitcoin into more different addresses, than a person with 0.1 Bitcoin. So they could sign more messages on different Bitcoin addresses, for whatever purpose this serves, but its more utilisation. They can also make more transactions before running out of Bitcoin, than a person with less Bitcoin, so again they can utilise it more. With more Bitcoin they can also open more/ higher funded channels on different networks like lightning, which actually influences how many transactions they can route on this other network, because they provided higher liquidity, giving them more income from routing in the other network.

Theres many examples of how a person with more Bitcoin gets 100 times more utility out of it, without having ever touched a Bitcoin/Fiat market.

Let me simplify for you: there are two friends. One just gave a car to get 2 bitcoins. The other gave a couple of dollars to get 0.00001 bitcoin. The first one comes to you ask: "what utility can I get that will be 200,000 bigger than the utility that my friend will get if no one wants to buy our bitcoins?"

That's a simple practical question. What is your answer?

• If you have 200.000 more addresses, you can cryptographically sign 200.000 more messages on different funded addresses.
• You can send out 200.000 more Bitcoin inside the network, you dont need a buyer to send something, you can send to any address without anyones permission.
• You can store 200.000 times more Bitcoin in a permission-less, unconfiscatable way.
• You have collected 200.000 times more Bitcoin.
• You can open 200.000 more channels on lightning for example, if you each fund them with the same amount.
• You can open a channel on lightning with 200.000 times more liquidity, giving 200.000 times more liquidity to the other network.

No single Bitcoin sold, yet a utilisation of 200.000 times more.

That's not utilization. That's a waste of time. Sending "0.0001" 200,000 times to someone provides no utility to the sender, but quite contrary - he must spend resources - their time. The same is true for opening addresses and channels. So, the guy gave up his car, and in addition to that he must gave up his time on performing useless activity. And this is how bitcoin provides utility to the guy. Hahaha. You are literally out of your mind.

.....

By the way Snowshow, even a seemingly dumb fuck like you, may well be better off to make sure that he has at least a 1% allocation in bitcoin in case you are wrong about bitcoin going to zero.. and probably you already have BTC anyhow.. I am not even going to concede that you are that dumb to really believe all the bullshit that you are spreading.  Maybe even your handlers are paying you in BTC, no?

So, this person Nakamoto invented a scheme for giving numeric labels to people when they join the scheme by putting it their resources. And you, instead of acknowledging that this is not a payment system but a traditional investment scam with a modern way of labeling members, write endless rants on these labels like they are some kind of gift from the sky. Crazy. You're even comparing these labels with the metal that provides utility to people for thousands of years. Which is even crazier.  

[tadamichi]

That's not utilization.

Utilisation just means making use of something, it doesnt matter if it makes sense or not, especially not in your test(its a pointless waste of time, that is not interested in having practical results). You were never interested what Bitcoin really offers in the first place, you never even asked 1 single genuine question and refuse to answer 99% things asked to you.

Youre utilising your time too, even tho it seems like a waste of time to me, with how you are utilising it. And yet im not here mentioning anything about it, because its not my business. It seems more and more to me like you have some kind of mental illness, so maybe i should take a step back. It wouldnt be your fault. Even tho the bs you are producing is just insanity.

You doubted you can use Bitcoin 200.000 times more, if you have 200.000 times more of it, but its possible, thats what i showed you.

In practice your requirements dont even matter, that is the point. You can do nothing with 200.000 bills if no one accepts them, you can do nothing with 200.000 gold bars if no one accepts them. In theory you can make use of gold, but 99% of people cant themselves. And your requirement was that no other person can be involved, because it would count as „dumping of shares“.

But it doesnt matter, because people will always accept fiat, gold and bitcoin. This can vary over time, but wont change anytime soon. This is the point of money, it is not used primarily for some other bs, just like you dont expect your bike to fly. And it gets its value from being used as money primarily.

Now imagine a good:

• With the best monetary properties ever created.
• Inside a system that can transfer/ store information in a manipulation free, permissionless way worldwide.
• With a protocol that cant easily be changed or stopped, because its decentralized.
• With being able to recover your money from anywhere, because its based on cryptography.
• With no person being able to confiscate it from you.
• With being able to become a part of the network yourself without asking for permission.

This just created trustless money in the first time in history. Its already starting to take off, was the most successfull investment in the last 10 years. And were here discussing about if it has value or not, its pathetic and obvious. If you dont see it now, ill stop replying out of respect, if its caused by psychological or medical conditions.

[darkv0rt3x]

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

Now you've just described the process of joining Nakamoto scheme: someone give you a resource, and you sent them a number. They gave you a resource people can utilize, and you gave them a numeric label that shows they have joined Nakamoto scheme just like people got some kind of a label when they joined Bernie Madoff's scheme.

What I have described is exactly the same thing your shiat coin does. I give you a bill of 20 and you give me something in return that has value to me! And you agreed that the 20 dollar bill matches the value of that something you gave me!
You keep spitting that non-sense about schemes, but the only scheme is the one your proud government stuck in your head for years. That's a scam, you know it, you use it, you acccept it. How dumb can you be!

Let me repeat what I already explained. Fiat money is numbers that represent the quantity of debt (loans) created in the banking system. Numbers are not supposed to be backed, but debt. Debt is backed by collaterals. Numbers are just information, like the one you see on invoices about quantity.  Try to educate yourself instead of just repeating nonsense conspiracy theories.

Let me also repeat what you've been explained countless times, yet you refuse to accept you're wrong. Debt is a number just like any other crap you're trying to put in the air. Collaterals? Another number! You make yourself so silly and you keep repeating! And worse, is that that debt and collaterrals and any other crap you may come up with, is shit that your government creates to suck any value out of you. But once more, you know it, you take it, you accept it! How dumb can one be?

FFS... I'm really sorry for you!

[PrivacyG]

Anyone willing to pay me 1 satoshi every time Snowshow says 'Bitcoin is just a number' or 'Satoshi scheme'?  I would be a Bitcoin millionaire in no time with this repetitive parrot around.

Can not believe how delusional someone can be.  Thought you were trolling at first, but now seems to be more of a mental issue instead.

If we are talking the Bitcoin 21M cap is not scarcity and metals are scarce, then it is a little contradictory.  Because just like you say Bitcoin's supply cap does not really exist, I can say that a trillion ounces of Gold can always be found on another planet.  Or, maybe even on ours.  Since new discoveries keep being made, what could stop us from being able to successfully turn whatever material into Gold or maybe even Oil a hundred years from now?

We currently define whether an asset is scarce or not based on current knowledge of our world and the Universe.  That means, any new discovery could turn everything you say Debt is backed by from scarce to, maybe, even unlimited.  But while the scarcity of real assets could be drastically changed by new scientific discoveries, in mathematics it is about impossible someone will be able to successfully and legitimately prove 1 is not 1 and 1 + 1 equals 2 even a thousand years from now.  The difference between what you keep repeating like a parrot and what I say is, math is exact science.  And if we set Bitcoin to be capped at 21M, thanks to math, with our current chain there is no way we can have a 21,000,001st Bitcoin existing.  It is precisely capped, there is a supply limit.  You could create a second version of Bitcoin with 21 trillion coins instead.  But you can not move my Bitcoin, you can not send me your fake Bitcoin or make the real Bitcoin less worth than it is and you surely can not fool me or anyone else into believing your fake Bitcoins are like my Bitcoin because there is no way you can send that fake Bitcoin to my address.  With that being said, Bitcoin shows up as a number but it is a system really.

Let me simplify for you: there are two friends. One just gave a car to get 2 bitcoins. The other gave a couple of dollars to get 0.00001 bitcoin. The first one comes to you and ask: "what utility can I get that will be 200,000 bigger than the utility that my friend will get if no one wants to buy our bitcoins?"

That's a simple practical question. What is your answer?

Oh, buddy, that is so easy to turn around.

There are two friends.  One just gave a car to get $60,000.  The other gave a carrot to get $1.  The first one comes to you and asks: 'What utility can I get that will be 60,000 bigger than the utility that my friend will get if no one wants to buy our Dollars?'

That is a simple practical question.  What is your answer?  Except being able to wipe your ass 60 thousand times more than your friend IF the $60,000 are all in bills of $1?  Come on, parrot!  Answer me!  I can tell you what utility the Hungarian Pezos had when nobody wanted to buy them.  It gave a temporary job to some people.  Cleaning Pezos off the streets with a broom.

What is more probable to happen than your theory is, your beloved Dollar bills might actually really be just paper and nothing else at the end of the day.  You say Fiat is backed by Debt and Debt is backed by colaterals.  Is there anywhere in this world proof that all the Debt in the world is currently backed by actual colaterals and not just imaginary colaterals?  Maybe the colaterals you think exist as the backup of Debt are partially real and legitimate and partially imaginary so that you could just continue to falsely believe the Dollar is actually backed by something legitimate?  It seems to me like the Dollar printing machine has gone absolutely wild in the last few years and I am not very convinced the World Debt is legitimately backed by colaterals considering how uncontrollable things have been going in the last years and considering there is no real proof of these colaterals actually existing.

And if you have any proof, show it to me with actual sources.  Because anything we say is to you just worthless opinions while anything you say is, in your world, actual proof.  I am now waiting for your reply, which is going to be 'You keep ignoring this discussion and just repeat irrelevant issues and bitcoin propaganda'.  Wait, now you can not say that.  So you are going back to the first sentence I wrote in this reply or you will just pick a small part of my post and go for another 'argument' which is just your opinion again that, according to yourself, is actually worthless.  Put you in a bit of thinking problem now?  Come on, repeat yourself, parrot!  I know you are tempted to do it.

Last time I checked, and this time I might be very wrong because I can not remember whether it was a rumor or actual facts, the Biden administration was contemplating producing a small coin worth thousands that would have a trillion dollars written on it so they could 'pay off Debt'.  Is this the Fiat you call legitimate?  Because it seems like a trillion more dollars are one button or signature away from being printed at any given time and, long term, this is starting to look more unsustainable than ever.

If that is what you call legitimate, I will continue to live very thankfully and happy with my Satoshi scheme numbers while you can definitely continue to live very thankfully and happy with the ever-decreasing purchasing power of the Dollar.  Meanwhile, I will be sitting here patiently waiting for you to finally prove your points for real.

I decide what is relevant to this topic. You can have opinions but I won't act on them. I accept only arguments. Opinion are worthless.

Then your entire topic is worthless because it began with your opinions that your rotten brain believes to be undeniable proof.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[JayJuanGee]

.....

By the way Snowshow, even a seemingly dumb fuck like you, may well be better off to make sure that he has at least a 1% allocation in bitcoin in case you are wrong about bitcoin going to zero.. and probably you already have BTC anyhow.. I am not even going to concede that you are that dumb to really believe all the bullshit that you are spreading.  Maybe even your handlers are paying you in BTC, no?

So, this person Nakamoto invented a scheme for giving numeric labels to people when they join the scheme by putting it their resources. And you, instead of acknowledging that this is not a payment system but a traditional investment scam with a modern way of labeling members, write endless rants on these labels like they are some kind of gift from the sky. Crazy. You're even comparing these labels with the metal that provides utility to people for thousands of years. Which is even crazier.  

Even though I label you as dumb (as a kind of exaggeration), many of us should be able to appreciate that you do have decent language talents that facilitate your abilities to describe how bitcoin is either worth zero or close to zero from your perspective.  I would imagine that if you imagine that if you have any handlers, they are not necessarily intervening at those levels of your interactions with us - except maybe you compose some of the messages, and then your handler might approve, disprove  or advise edits.

In any event, you are showing that you are not dumb in all ways, but surely you have some tendencies and abilities to be able to dance around such topics, whether you are getting help from any handler(s) or not.

Maybe one thing that continues to bother me remains your ongoing failure/refusal to work within any of the various kinds of framework that is presented by folks who seem quite familiar with various aspects of bitcoin and how it is valuable.  I doubt that any of us are purposefully trying to be confusing rather than attempting to actually grapple with bitcoin in terms of the amazing phenomena that it has been, continues to be, and likely will continue to be into the future.  So, in that regard, you just seem to NOT even be trying, and in that regard, you seem to be ongoingly engaged in purposeful reframing of issues in order to really  talk about how there is almost no fucking way that you are even close to being correct in either your assessments about what bitcoin is, how it got here or where it is going.

I hate to speak for anyone else here, but I get the sense that many of us (including but not limited to yours truly) would be more than willing to work with you if you were providing various frameworks for why bitcoin might not be as valuable as some of us consider it to be; however, at the same time, you continue to show yourself as too damned extreme and contributing to the various kinds of inabilities for any of us to really be able to work with you in regards to any of your points - but yeah, you have had quite a bit of success in getting several of us to go back and forth to show how vacuous various  of your points are which seems to allow us to sometimes be able to reframe the various orientations about various purposes that bitcoin serves and/or various flaws in the valuations of the status quo systems, whether you are wanting to attribute value to the fiat system, or gold/pms or even to equities or property. 

Sure there are various ways that the various status quo systems have value too, and it seems quite likely that our ongoing transition into bitcoin is going to continue to take a long time because it is not even clear to people sometimes in regards to how some of the various status quo money storage or value transmission are inferior to bitcoin, and sure bitcoin is a work in progress too, at least in terms of some of the usability matters (user-friendliness).  It seems to me that it is way easier to get into bitcoin these days than it was in late 2013 when I started, but the KYC/AML requirements (and maybe various of other governmental requirements) and confusion about the various leveraging tools and various institutions (and 3rd-parties) gambling with client money creates further complications and confusion in regards to differentiating the holding of actual bitcoin versus having some entity hold it for you (in which they might have ended up gambling with bitcoin that you thought was yours - and they end up creating a lot of paper bitcoin too through some of those processes and employment of gambling instruments)... 

So for sure, Snowshow, the variance between BTC value and BTC price can become quite difficult to figure out.. yet even with a lot of the ongoing chaos around BTC we should not be allowing that chaos to cause us to throw up our hands and give up or to start to listen to exaggerating fucks like yourself - who ongoingly fail/refuse to recognize/appreciate any value in BTC.. and as I already pointed out, I doubt that you are even directionally correct from our current $18,500-ish to $22,500-ish spot price range (as I type), even though in the coming months we may well spend a decent amount of time at or even below the current price range.. at the same time, keeping our eyes on the prize seems to be a good, practical and prudent practice too... which is surely attempting to ongoingly take advantage where we are at and to dollar cost average, lump sum and buy on dips to the extent that any personally tailored strategy has to be cognizant and careful in terms of making sure to account for personal financial and psychological circumstances.

That's not utilization.

Utilisation just means making use of something, it doesnt matter if it makes sense or not, especially not in your test(its a pointless waste of time, that is not interested in having practical results).

That reminds me of some of the BIG blocker arguments and some of the complaints that some bitcoin HODLers are not using their bitcoin enough.. blah blah blah.

So for sure many of us can figure out that there are a lot of ways to use your bitcoin, and sometimes the intended use can go over a long period of time, and maybe sometimes our intended use (in the future) can become frustrated too.. such as if we die without passing down our private keys... but still does not mean that bitcoin is not useful, even though the HODLer of the keys fucked up by losing (or failure to preserve the spendability of) the keys.

You were never interested what Bitcoin really offers in the first place, you never even asked 1 single genuine question and refuse to answer 99% things asked to you.

Disingenuine troll fucks tend to be like that... They cannot help themselves.   

Plus they may well be afraid to concede even an inch - especially since they are already standing on weak grounds of their own arguments and claims.

Youre utilising your time too, even tho it seems like a waste of time to me, with how you are utilising it. And yet im not here mentioning anything about it, because its not my business.

I think that is a good point - even though in practicality it can be very difficult to maintain in practice.  With many folks (real world and even on the forum), I will say, don't be fucking around with shitcoins.. focus on learning bitcoin first.  People tend to feel needs to find their own way, even if they trust you or believe you, there is a certain amount of comfort that comes in tailorizing our own paths even if some of them end up fucking up BIG TIME because there can be a kind of tendency to gamble or even buy into shitcoin talking points which are largely fairly "smartly" designed to take advantage of human tendencies and even come off as convincing points that end up resulting in the parting of fools from any BTC/value that they might have been able to accumulate/build.  Some folks are better than others to both avoid the pitfalls and engaging in meaningful critical thinking and decent risk management - and I am not even going to claim that I have been able to avoid some of those poor gambling experiences along the way or less than desirable risk management.. or even having some holes in the critical thinking (maybe even allowing some emotions to fog good judgement from time to time).

If you dont see it now, ill stop replying out of respect, if its caused by psychological or medical conditions.

I have quite a few doubts about Snowshow having psychological or medical conditions that are contributing to his inabilities to address a vast majority of the points and/or frameworks are pointing out. 

In other words, it does not seem to be a good use of time to even attempt to convince Snowshow or even to hope that he addresses any of your points. .but instead - hopefully provide a framework or discussion points to present matters clearly for yourself and/or for readers of the thread (to the extent that there are any?) We all have time and energy limitations, and might not even want to read some of the responses after a while.. so if Snowshow happens to be snot-nosed 14 year old in grandmas basement, he may have all the time in the world to spend on some of his topics, until grandma makes him take a break to make sure that he eats his cookies and drinks his milk.. and sure he is chuckling the whole time (laughing at his own jokes) because he has difficulties controlling his lil selfie.. whether a normal peep or not.

Snowshow might look kind of like this, and I am not even conceding that I believe that he has any kind of psychological problems or a medical condition.

You need to do more research about crypto. It has changed the lives of millions of people all over the world.

Fuck crypto.

Even Snowshow has conceded that he is talking about bitcoin here.. not shitcoins or "crypto" - whatever the fuck that means?

No need to distract us into believing that we are talking about crypto in this thread, because if that were the case, then maybe Snowshow would have a point about the going to zero claims in regards to the overwhelming majority of that shit.

Bitcoin is another story.. so better that folks figure that out, including you selezneve.

I decide what is relevant to this topic. You can have opinions but I won't act on them. I accept only arguments. Opinion are worthless.

Then your entire topic is worthless because it began with your opinions that your rotten brain believes to be undeniable proof.

For sure Snowshow comes off as disoriented and retarded from time to time... but he likely knows better than that, and he likely knows that he is lying.

In other words, if Snowshow had created this thread a self-moderated thread (in which he could delete posts), he would have been hard-pressed to receive any responses within the thread.  No one would have wasted their time.

Since Snowshow created this as an open thread, he has no fucking power in regards to proclaiming his dumbass shifting proclamations of relevance.  Sure he can close the thread, move the thread and/or edit his own posts, but he has no power over the posts of responders beyond reporting them - and I doubt any of us are breaking any forum rules, even if we might sometimes be using some strong language in the direction of that mostly disingenuine dweeb.

Anyhow, my point is that he is overclaiming his powers, and good luck getting any of us to participate if you create a self-moderated thread on this topic or some variation of it. 

By the way, I believe some forum members remain surprised that Snowshow has been able to participate as long as he has, so far, without getting banned... moderators may well be either slacking or just allowing the harmless little dweeb to stay since he seems to be mostly staying in this thread, for now.   

[famososMuertos]

I don't know what part of his OP he edited (you did it today), although that can be easily known with the tools that exist in the forum, but how you intend to discredit SN at least if you change the context of his "hardship" then indicate it, since it is in a certain way disloyal, an answer can be seen out of context.

Anyway, some only needed a brief moment to understand bitcoin and trust, others take months or years, because breaking paradigms or dogmas in such entrenched systems is not easy, but it is good to know that the effect of the technological tool used,  it is running, so no matter how many accept it.

[tadamichi]

I hate to speak for anyone else here, but I get the sense that many of us (including but not limited to yours truly) would be more than willing to work with you if you were providing various frameworks for why bitcoin might not be as valuable as some of us consider it to be;

I would be willing to for sure, i would even be fine with if he still considers Bitcoin useless for himself, but this extreme blindness about any arguments is just mind blowing. If he would just admit that his arguments were wrong, but he still doesn’t want anything to do with Bitcoin, it would be fine to me. Im not here to force any outcomes, but it’s the basis of his arguments that is completely ridiculous, they got debunked many times now. Just because something has a market, doesn’t make it a worthless dumping scheme, its comfortable to judge something, without looking at it.

The irony is that the fiat system creates an environment were actual dumping schemes are created, im just saying Wirecard, Lehman Brothers, Panama papers, CumEx files, JP Morgan Chase market manipulations, Libor scandal, UBS rogue trader scandal, and these are just a few examples, anyone who knows finance knows that this system is a complete playground for frauds, with billions upon billions in damages every year, and the population is the one paying for it. We didnt even get into companies buying and selling their own shares on the stock market yet, playing with their own investors. How much time did he spend to warn people about this?

This whole financial system is a ponzi scheme, just because they look professional, dont open their mouths in public, and the population has no clue whats going on and gets distracted easily with bs, like bashing Bitcoin instead of actual problems, this bs is still alive. Then theres people here claiming Bitcoin is a ponzi just because it exists on a market, when its actually trying to fix this broken system, all of the fiat bs is just backed by lies and the stupidity of the population. How can someone be so dumb to try to prevent an escape out of this? Self sabotage or conflict of interests?

That reminds me of some of the BIG blocker arguments and some of the complaints that some bitcoin HODLers are not using their bitcoin enough.. blah blah blah.

In the phase we’re in right now, the best use for Bitcoin is probably primarily being a Store of Value, just sit there, be safe, don’t get confiscated and that’s probably already the biggest benefit a good could possibly provide in the current fiat craziness. If we’re thinking about Gresham’s law, why should the “precious metal”(Bitcoin) be used over the cheap one(Fiat) in daily circulation. As long as the bad money circulates, the good money will rise in value so we have no urgency for anything, never fold out a winning hand.

Bad money drives out good money, so what these big blockers suggested really doesn’t matter, as the different utilization will come naturally, when the bad money is gone. Any try to force something to be used differently, like increasing the block size will be useless, like we saw in practice. Hodling might be the best utilization of Bitcoin currently.

Plus they may well be afraid to concede even an inch - especially since they are already standing on weak grounds of their own arguments and claims.

Or hes on some government payroll and doesn’t want to bite the hand that feeds him and maybe tries to rationalise his decision in some way, to feel like hes making the right decisions.

But living costs are exploding everywhere, idk how people can still sit here and think nothing is wrong with the current system, my only explanation would be that theyre one of the few that profit from this bs overall, so they became completely clueless.

People tend to feel needs to find their own way, even if they trust you or believe you, there is a certain amount of comfort that comes in tailorizing our own paths even if some of them end up fucking up BIG TIME because there can be a kind of tendency to gamble or even buy into shitcoin talking points which are largely fairly "smartly" designed to take advantage of human tendencies and even come off as convincing points that end up resulting in the parting of fools from any BTC/value that they might have been able to accumulate/build.  

Sometimes pain will be the best teacher and humans cant resist the urge to try something themselves. It can also depend on the current learning level and people around oneself, it takes some time to realise Bitcoin-only is the way, most dont start like this. When i didnt understand much about Bitcoin and shitcoins, and i first heard the idea Bitcoin-only is better, it didnt come naturally to me, it sounded odd, then i actually took the time to study and go in deeper, and spared myself from shitcoinery. But with superficial level knowledge this will just sound odd and they might not look into it more deeply.

I have quite a few doubts about Snowshow having psychological or medical conditions that are contributing to his inabilities to address a vast majority of the points and/or frameworks are pointing out.  

You might be right and maybe in the end we should just laugh about each other, we can laugh at him for not getting it, and he can laugh at us because he thinks were in a ponzi. In the end were all humans and depend on each other, doesnt matter if smart or dumb. And fighting over one one disagreement wont get us any further. We will purchase what we like, and he can purchase what he likes.

Fuck crypto.

Amen, Bitcoin changed the world, not some rainbow nft centralized pos cefi venture capitalist ponzi.

For sure Snowshow comes off as disoriented and retarded from time to time... but he likely knows better than that, and he likely knows that he is lying.

I hope so, initially i just registered on this forum to read some of the old posts, but i never really followed something else. Then one day i logged in and saw this thread and i couldnt believe someone could seriously think this, so i actually wrote a post for the first time. Without this thread i maybe wouldnt be here right now, so atleast i give Snowshow that. And despite this whole thread being completely crazy, theres actually some higher quality posts here than on some other threads. Its not all bad and in the end, its actually kinda funny.

[Snowshow]

That's not utilization.

Utilisation just means making use of something, it doesnt matter if it makes sense or not, especially not in your test(its a pointless waste of time, that is not interested in having practical results). You were never interested what Bitcoin really offers in the first place, you never even asked 1 single genuine question and refuse to answer 99% things asked to you.

Youre utilising your time too, even tho it seems like a waste of time to me, with how you are utilising it. And yet im not here mentioning anything about it, because its not my business. It seems more and more to me like you have some kind of mental illness, so maybe i should take a step back. It wouldnt be your fault. Even tho the bs you are producing is just insanity.

You doubted you can use Bitcoin 200.000 times more, if you have 200.000 times more of it, but its possible, thats what i showed you.

In practice your requirements dont even matter, that is the point. You can do nothing with 200.000 bills if no one accepts them, you can do nothing with 200.000 gold bars if no one accepts them. In theory you can make use of gold, but 99% of people cant themselves. And your requirement was that no other person can be involved, because it would count as „dumping of shares“.

But it doesnt matter, because people will always accept fiat, gold and bitcoin. This can vary over time, but wont change anytime soon. This is the point of money, it is not used primarily for some other bs, just like you dont expect your bike to fly. And it gets its value from being used as money primarily.

Now imagine a good:

• With the best monetary properties ever created.
• Inside a system that can transfer/ store information in a manipulation free, permissionless way worldwide.
• With a protocol that cant easily be changed or stopped, because its decentralized.
• With being able to recover your money from anywhere, because its based on cryptography.
• With no person being able to confiscate it from you.
• With being able to become a part of the network yourself without asking for permission.

This just created trustless money in the first time in history. Its already starting to take off, was the most successfull investment in the last 10 years. And were here discussing about if it has value or not, its pathetic and obvious. If you dont see it now, ill stop replying out of respect, if its caused by psychological or medical conditions.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/utilization

Utilization -  the act of using something in an effective way.

So, instead of answering how the guy can use bitcoins in an effective way for his benefit (without dumping them to someone else) you decided to twist the meaning of the word "utility" and continue to spread the usual bitcoin propaganda. You really are pathetic.

Clockwork again.
After I have purchased Bitcoin, I have that number next to my address, no one can really take it away from me by any means, and further more, I can send it to you in exchange for some service or good from you and there you have, I just used my Bitcoin to purchase a resource with value!
The imagination is in your head, not in our heads. And it's not only imagination. It seems a mix of jealousy, lack of synapses and a brainwash from your governments, politicians, etc, over the years!

Now you've just described the process of joining Nakamoto scheme: someone give you a resource, and you sent them a number. They gave you a resource people can utilize, and you gave them a numeric label that shows they have joined Nakamoto scheme just like people got some kind of a label when they joined Bernie Madoff's scheme.

What I have described is exactly the same thing your shiat coin does. I give you a bill of 20 and you give me something in return that has value to me! And you agreed that the 20 dollar bill matches the value of that something you gave me!
You keep spitting that non-sense about schemes, but the only scheme is the one your proud government stuck in your head for years. That's a scam, you know it, you use it, you acccept it. How dumb can you be!

Let me repeat what I already explained. Fiat money is numbers that represent the quantity of debt (loans) created in the banking system. Numbers are not supposed to be backed, but debt. Debt is backed by collaterals. Numbers are just information, like the one you see on invoices about quantity.  Try to educate yourself instead of just repeating nonsense conspiracy theories.

Let me also repeat what you've been explained countless times, yet you refuse to accept you're wrong. Debt is a number just like any other crap you're trying to put in the air. Collaterals? Another number! You make yourself so silly and you keep repeating! And worse, is that that debt and collaterrals and any other crap you may come up with, is shit that your government creates to suck any value out of you. But once more, you know it, you take it, you accept it! How dumb can one be?

FFS... I'm really sorry for you!

No, my shit coins or fiat currencies are numbers that represent the quantity of debt created in the banking system that I own. Which is clearly evidenced in the balance sheets of the banks where the deposits are recorded as banks liabilities. Banknotes are of course redeemable for the deposits. Bitcoin doesn't represent the quantity of debt. Nobody ows you anything when you hold it. So, bitcoin is indeed just a worthless numeric label. That's why you're forced to find new victims to dump that shit on them. There's zero similarly between fiat and bitcoin.

You've been explained this fact countless times, yet you refuse to accept it. Instead, you just repeat usual nonsense about bitcoin doing the same thing as fiat currency.

.....

By the way Snowshow, even a seemingly dumb fuck like you, may well be better off to make sure that he has at least a 1% allocation in bitcoin in case you are wrong about bitcoin going to zero.. and probably you already have BTC anyhow.. I am not even going to concede that you are that dumb to really believe all the bullshit that you are spreading.  Maybe even your handlers are paying you in BTC, no?

So, this person Nakamoto invented a scheme for giving numeric labels to people when they join the scheme by putting it their resources. And you, instead of acknowledging that this is not a payment system but a traditional investment scam with a modern way of labeling members, write endless rants on these labels like they are some kind of gift from the sky. Crazy. You're even comparing these labels with the metal that provides utility to people for thousands of years. Which is even crazier.  

Even though I label you as dumb (as a kind of exaggeration), many of us should be able to appreciate that you do have decent language talents that facilitate your abilities to describe how bitcoin is either worth zero or close to zero from your perspective.  I would imagine that if you imagine that if you have any handlers, they are not necessarily intervening at those levels of your interactions with us - except maybe you compose some of the messages, and then your handler might approve, disprove  or advise edits.

In any event, you are showing that you are not dumb in all ways, but surely you have some tendencies and abilities to be able to dance around such topics, whether you are getting help from any handler(s) or not.

Maybe one thing that continues to bother me remains your ongoing failure/refusal to work within any of the various kinds of framework that is presented by folks who seem quite familiar with various aspects of bitcoin and how it is valuable.  I doubt that any of us are purposefully trying to be confusing rather than attempting to actually grapple with bitcoin in terms of the amazing phenomena that it has been, continues to be, and likely will continue to be into the future.  So, in that regard, you just seem to NOT even be trying, and in that regard, you seem to be ongoingly engaged in purposeful reframing of issues in order to really  talk about how there is almost no fucking way that you are even close to being correct in either your assessments about what bitcoin is, how it got here or where it is going.

I hate to speak for anyone else here, but I get the sense that many of us (including but not limited to yours truly) would be more than willing to work with you if you were providing various frameworks for why bitcoin might not be as valuable as some of us consider it to be; however, at the same time, you continue to show yourself as too damned extreme and contributing to the various kinds of inabilities for any of us to really be able to work with you in regards to any of your points - but yeah, you have had quite a bit of success in getting several of us to go back and forth to show how vacuous various  of your points are which seems to allow us to sometimes be able to reframe the various orientations about various purposes that bitcoin serves and/or various flaws in the valuations of the status quo systems, whether you are wanting to attribute value to the fiat system, or gold/pms or even to equities or property.  

Sure there are various ways that the various status quo systems have value too, and it seems quite likely that our ongoing transition into bitcoin is going to continue to take a long time because it is not even clear to people sometimes in regards to how some of the various status quo money storage or value transmission are inferior to bitcoin, and sure bitcoin is a work in progress too, at least in terms of some of the usability matters (user-friendliness).  It seems to me that it is way easier to get into bitcoin these days than it was in late 2013 when I started, but the KYC/AML requirements (and maybe various of other governmental requirements) and confusion about the various leveraging tools and various institutions (and 3rd-parties) gambling with client money creates further complications and confusion in regards to differentiating the holding of actual bitcoin versus having some entity hold it for you (in which they might have ended up gambling with bitcoin that you thought was yours - and they end up creating a lot of paper bitcoin too through some of those processes and employment of gambling instruments)...  

So for sure, Snowshow, the variance between BTC value and BTC price can become quite difficult to figure out.. yet even with a lot of the ongoing chaos around BTC we should not be allowing that chaos to cause us to throw up our hands and give up or to start to listen to exaggerating fucks like yourself - who ongoingly fail/refuse to recognize/appreciate any value in BTC.. and as I already pointed out, I doubt that you are even directionally correct from our current $18,500-ish to $22,500-ish spot price range (as I type), even though in the coming months we may well spend a decent amount of time at or even below the current price range.. at the same time, keeping our eyes on the prize seems to be a good, practical and prudent practice too... which is surely attempting to ongoingly take advantage where we are at and to dollar cost average, lump sum and buy on dips to the extent that any personally tailored strategy has to be cognizant and careful in terms of making sure to account for personal financial and psychological circumstances.

That's not utilization.

Utilisation just means making use of something, it doesnt matter if it makes sense or not, especially not in your test(its a pointless waste of time, that is not interested in having practical results).

That reminds me of some of the BIG blocker arguments and some of the complaints that some bitcoin HODLers are not using their bitcoin enough.. blah blah blah.

So for sure many of us can figure out that there are a lot of ways to use your bitcoin, and sometimes the intended use can go over a long period of time, and maybe sometimes our intended use (in the future) can become frustrated too.. such as if we die without passing down our private keys... but still does not mean that bitcoin is not useful, even though the HODLer of the keys fucked up by losing (or failure to preserve the spendability of) the keys.

You were never interested what Bitcoin really offers in the first place, you never even asked 1 single genuine question and refuse to answer 99% things asked to you.

Disingenuine troll fucks tend to be like that... They cannot help themselves.    

Plus they may well be afraid to concede even an inch - especially since they are already standing on weak grounds of their own arguments and claims.

Youre utilising your time too, even tho it seems like a waste of time to me, with how you are utilising it. And yet im not here mentioning anything about it, because its not my business.

I think that is a good point - even though in practicality it can be very difficult to maintain in practice.  With many folks (real world and even on the forum), I will say, don't be fucking around with shitcoins.. focus on learning bitcoin first.  People tend to feel needs to find their own way, even if they trust you or believe you, there is a certain amount of comfort that comes in tailorizing our own paths even if some of them end up fucking up BIG TIME because there can be a kind of tendency to gamble or even buy into shitcoin talking points which are largely fairly "smartly" designed to take advantage of human tendencies and even come off as convincing points that end up resulting in the parting of fools from any BTC/value that they might have been able to accumulate/build.  Some folks are better than others to both avoid the pitfalls and engaging in meaningful critical thinking and decent risk management - and I am not even going to claim that I have been able to avoid some of those poor gambling experiences along the way or less than desirable risk management.. or even having some holes in the critical thinking (maybe even allowing some emotions to fog good judgement from time to time).

If you dont see it now, ill stop replying out of respect, if its caused by psychological or medical conditions.

I have quite a few doubts about Snowshow having psychological or medical conditions that are contributing to his inabilities to address a vast majority of the points and/or frameworks are pointing out.  

In other words, it does not seem to be a good use of time to even attempt to convince Snowshow or even to hope that he addresses any of your points. .but instead - hopefully provide a framework or discussion points to present matters clearly for yourself and/or for readers of the thread (to the extent that there are any?) We all have time and energy limitations, and might not even want to read some of the responses after a while.. so if Snowshow happens to be snot-nosed 14 year old in grandmas basement, he may have all the time in the world to spend on some of his topics, until grandma makes him take a break to make sure that he eats his cookies and drinks his milk.. and sure he is chuckling the whole time (laughing at his own jokes) because he has difficulties controlling his lil selfie.. whether a normal peep or not.

Snowshow might look kind of like this, and I am not even conceding that I believe that he has any kind of psychological problems or a medical condition.

You need to do more research about crypto. It has changed the lives of millions of people all over the world.

Fuck crypto.

Even Snowshow has conceded that he is talking about bitcoin here.. not shitcoins or "crypto" - whatever the fuck that means?

No need to distract us into believing that we are talking about crypto in this thread, because if that were the case, then maybe Snowshow would have a point about the going to zero claims in regards to the overwhelming majority of that shit.

Bitcoin is another story.. so better that folks figure that out, including you selezneve.

I decide what is relevant to this topic. You can have opinions but I won't act on them. I accept only arguments. Opinion are worthless.

Then your entire topic is worthless because it began with your opinions that your rotten brain believes to be undeniable proof.

For sure Snowshow comes off as disoriented and retarded from time to time... but he likely knows better than that, and he likely knows that he is lying.

In other words, if Snowshow had created this thread a self-moderated thread (in which he could delete posts), he would have been hard-pressed to receive any responses within the thread.  No one would have wasted their time.

Since Snowshow created this as an open thread, he has no fucking power in regards to proclaiming his dumbass shifting proclamations of relevance.  Sure he can close the thread, move the thread and/or edit his own posts, but he has no power over the posts of responders beyond reporting them - and I doubt any of us are breaking any forum rules, even if we might sometimes be using some strong language in the direction of that mostly disingenuine dweeb.

Anyhow, my point is that he is overclaiming his powers, and good luck getting any of us to participate if you create a self-moderated thread on this topic or some variation of it.  

By the way, I believe some forum members remain surprised that Snowshow has been able to participate as long as he has, so far, without getting banned... moderators may well be either slacking or just allowing the harmless little dweeb to stay since he seems to be mostly staying in this thread, for now.    

So, instead of acknowledging that bitcoin is not a resource that provides utility but just a numeric label given to those that join Nakamoto scheme, you continue to write endless rants about the things irrelevant to this topic. That's called trolling.