Russian head of the committee on Energy about selling oil and gas in Bitcoin

[NeuroticFish]

It will be their loss in my opinion, and Bitcoin will crawl into the systems that the legacy "legal entities" will not serve, and make those markets more efficient. The price might crash, but I'm confident it will surge again.

If Bitcoin ends up as underground-only currency, it will be everybody's loss.
Sorry, I find your view in this a bit limited (or maybe I just don't understand it), and repeating that bitcoin is permissionless medium of exchange won't change that.
For example, an asset only in the underground markets - no matter the price recovers or not - won't really be seen as a store of value.

[Wind_FURY]

It will be their loss in my opinion, and Bitcoin will crawl into the systems that the legacy "legal entities" will not serve, and make those markets more efficient. The price might crash, but I'm confident it will surge again.

If Bitcoin ends up as underground-only currency, it will be everybody's loss.

IF it ends up as a "underground-only" cryptocurrency, "according to" a cabal of entities who make the "rules", because a scantioned nation-state used it? Will it be "our" loss if it proves the technology works as designed? Plus a nation-state truly using it will not make Bitcoin "underground-only", it could start real adoption.

Sorry, I find your view in this a bit limited (or maybe I just don't understand it), and repeating that bitcoin is permissionless medium of exchange won't change that.

I respect your opinion.

Are you saying the community should protest, and tell Russia not to use Bitcoin? But what would be the point of Bitcoin? What would then be its main value-proposition?

For example, an asset only in the underground markets - no matter the price recovers or not - won't really be seen as a store of value.

It will for me, it might for Putin and other sanctioned countries, and for the Heroine dealers in the dark markets.

[Lucius]

The situation is a bit awkward if we take into account what Bitcoin is and the fact that everyone can use it in any way they want. A man who will pay with BTC coffee in a cafe, someone else who will buy something illegal on the black market, and a country that wants to avoid sanctions in this way benefit from using Bitcoin.

The problem (although some will not call it that) arises when someone interprets Bitcoin as a means of avoiding sanctions and accordingly wants to take appropriate measures to prevent it. It only adds fuel to the fire and benefits those who support their anti-Bitcoin agendas, and they use it to put pressure on their governments to pass laws restricting the use of Bitcoin in public.

Turkey banned Bitcoin as a means of payment 1 year ago, and yesterday I read that Thailand will do the same, and the only question is which country will do it next. Therefore, linking Bitcoin to Russia and avoiding sanctions is not something that brings us positive public opinion - although there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it - if Russia wants to use Bitcoin, it will use it like any other blacklisted country like Iran or North Korea.

[NeuroticFish]

IF it ends up as a "underground-only" cryptocurrency, "according to" a cabal of entities who make the "rules", because a scantioned nation-state used it?

Most of the world population goes by those rules. They usually end up as laws.

Will it be "our" loss if it proves the technology works as designed? Plus a nation-state truly using it will not make Bitcoin "underground-only", it could start real adoption.

There are a lot of wonderful experiments that didn't get world wide acceptance/traction for whatever odd reasons. And I will not talk (only) about (some) altcoins, I would (also) talk about better ways to store data (much better than DVD), for example. The world goes on and most will not miss that, but for some.. it's a loss.

You do have a good point about proving it works as designed, although imho that was already proven.
Can Russia trigger real adoption? I doubt it. Just look how the "adoption" went in China. They toyed Bitcoin for a while, then kicked it out and started their centralized coin. It has proven to us the Bitcoin resilience, but for the average Chen it's a loss.
And the western banking sector (and it friends) just waits the perfect opportunity/reason to ban their main competitor. And then.. who will adopt Bitcoin?

Are you saying the community should protest, and tell Russia not to use Bitcoin?

It's a free world (actually network), that's the beauty of it. And protesting won't help; I don't expect Russian government care at all.
But please allow me still be concerned, OK?

But what would be the point of Bitcoin? What would then be its main value-proposition?

I find Bitcoin now at a thin balance between the experimental status and worldwide adoption. I fear that the critical mass (user base) is not yet achieved and although we both have similar goal for Bitcoin, I'd prefer to "play safe" a little more.
What we have now with Bitcoin is a mix of hope and speculation. Bitcoin's actual value will come after the critical mass is reached and we can go on with or without the current financial sector.

It will for me, it might for Putin and other sanctioned countries, and for the Heroine dealers in the dark markets.

I don't think that you really want that. It would be an immense setback.

[Questat]

This would benefit them because their fiat (Ruble ) has dropped in value.

With Bitcoin, they can still sell their oil at a competitive price, and that is also to prevent the economic sanctions implemented unto them from the countries that condemn their actions. As they make this smart move, this would also give a very big and positive impact to the crypto market.

[Ararbermas]

A great news from Russia IMO. and i see that there will be a new improvement in the market because of that reason. But i hope they lesser the price of oil and gas because to be honest its really too high compared few months ago. by the way what happen to their digital currency (Ruble) why they fell in bitcoin?.

[DanWalker]

A great news from Russia IMO. and i see that there will be a new improvement in the market because of that reason.

There is no word yet on whether Russia will accept bitcoin payments for its oil purchases, but i think this is why bitcoin is up slightly today and bitcoin is approaching 45k.

But i hope they lesser the price of oil and gas because to be honest its really too high compared few months ago. by the way what happen to their digital currency (Ruble) why they fell in bitcoin?.

Oil and gas prices rise is not their decision. The US stopped buying oil from Russia and banned other countries from buying oil from Russia, causing a shortage of the world's oil supply which sent oil prices soaring.

[zasad@]

There’s an ongoing trending topic on tweeter about the video interview of RF head committee on Energy that they are considering assets like Bitcoin as payment for there oil and gas. The video is in Russian Language and still needs to be verify by Russian native speaker. This news maybe ignite the recent fluctuations on Bitcoin right now.

Anyone here can verify and translate the content of the video on source link: https://mobile.twitter.com/BitcoinComfy/status/1506982883076063236?s=20&t=wOZOKzpCqJ9SjG_J64-oaQ

“We have been proposing to China for a long time to switch to settlements in national currencies for rubles and yuan. With Turkey, it will be lira and rubles. The currencies used can be different and it's a normal practice. If it's Bitcoin, then it's Bitcoin,” the deputy said during a press conference organized by the Rossiya Segodnya news agency.

Read more on RBC:
https://www.rbc.ru/crypto/news/623c75db9a79474e05533924

This is a video with the right phrase for the news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/gegelsmr2/status/1506999204295725060

English is very formal. The same phrase in Russian can mean nothing
"Бyдyт биткoины - бyдeм биткoинaми тopгoвaть"
As a native speaker of Russian, I will write you a simple example: If there is a brick, we will build a house. It’s just not clear whether a brick will ever appear (most likely never) and maybe I’ll build not a house but a barn, and maybe it will be in another country, since the place for construction is not indicated.
Such phrases should not be taken formally, meaning that maybe someday, but probably never.

[MinMan]

Would that even work? I mean I get that there is a sanction to Russia but as far as I know it is towards Russia in general and not just against Ruble, which means that you could sell for ruble, dollars, euro, yuan, or bitcoin and it would still be sanctioned. Makes no sense to add in bitcoin option as a savior in that list, since it wouldn't change much. Sure it is great to transact these deals in crypto because it would be cheaper and faster.

After all, we are talking about billions of dollars worth of market and each of those transactions are a big deal, crypto would make it easier. But at the end of the day it would not save the Russian economy.

[7788bitcoin]

Yes, for those that care about the surge in the price of Bitcoin this is good news but in the season when this decision was made by the Russian to escape the US sanction while their Senate is already feeling discontent with the decision of the El Salvador government of signing Bitcoin as legal tender this could lead to something else.

Even i pointed out these views here, these sort of the legal struggle going on globally and if countries are overcoming the sanctions with a decentralized currency, what will be the decisions they are going to make when they pass the law on cryptocurrencies and how they are going to handle them is a slippery slope situation. Hopefully we will not see any drastic measures being taken against the entire space.

[Wind_FURY]

IF it ends up as a "underground-only" cryptocurrency, "according to" a cabal of entities who make the "rules", because a scantioned nation-state used it?

Most of the world population goes by those rules. They usually end up as laws.

Wouldn't censorship-resistance be more valuable in a tyrannical world like that?

Will it be "our" loss if it proves the technology works as designed? Plus a nation-state truly using it will not make Bitcoin "underground-only", it could start real adoption.

There are a lot of wonderful experiments that didn't get world wide acceptance/traction for whatever odd reasons. And I will not talk (only) about (some) altcoins, I would (also) talk about better ways to store data (much better than DVD), for example. The world goes on and most will not miss that, but for some.. it's a loss.

But is Bitcoin just another "wonderful experiment"? It might be for you, but it's ground-breaking technology for me. A technology that the OG cypherpunks took years to solve, but they couldn't. The impact of the invention of Bitcoin will be comparable to the invention of the printing press.

You do have a good point about proving it works as designed, although imho that was already proven.
Can Russia trigger real adoption? I doubt it. Just look how the "adoption" went in China. They toyed Bitcoin for a while, then kicked it out and started their centralized coin. It has proven to us the Bitcoin resilience, but for the average Chen it's a loss.

And the western banking sector (and it friends) just waits the perfect opportunity/reason to ban their main competitor. And then.. who will adopt Bitcoin?

We might have different definitions of  "real adoption".

Are you saying the community should protest, and tell Russia not to use Bitcoin?

It's a free world (actually network), that's the beauty of it. And protesting won't help; I don't expect Russian government care at all.
But please allow me still be concerned, OK?

That's the point, there's no need to be concerned about the price, or the market as long as Bitcoin can maintain its ethos/social contact, and therefore its main value proposition.

But what would be the point of Bitcoin? What would then be its main value-proposition?

I find Bitcoin now at a thin balance between the experimental status and worldwide adoption. I fear that the critical mass (user base) is not yet achieved and although we both have similar goal for Bitcoin, I'd prefer to "play safe" a little more.

What we have now with Bitcoin is a mix of hope and speculation. Bitcoin's actual value will come after the critical mass is reached and we can go on with or without the current financial sector.

What's your definition of "user base"? We might have different opinions.

It will for me, it might for Putin and other sanctioned countries, and for the Heroine dealers in the dark markets.

I don't think that you really want that. It would be an immense setback.

What I want? It's not what I want, or what you want. The Core developers made design decisions for Bitcoin to be permissionless, decentralized, and censorship-resistant that can also survive against an adversarial environment.

[pooya87]

a country that wants to avoid sanctions in this way benefit from using Bitcoin.

Countries can not and do not use bitcoin to avoid sanctions.

It's a pretty simple matter, if country A is sanctioned by country B then country A can not use any means of payment including bitcoin to trade with country B or any country following B. And if country A and C don't give a shit about sanctions they will trade with each other with or without bitcoin.
Keep in mind that bitcoin has the most transparent ledger in the world. So for example if country D was worried a little about getting sanctioned because of trading with country A, it would never use bitcoin!

Bitcoin is just another way to dump US dollar as reserve currency and for trades. Sanctions only give the incentive to do it faster.
As I said earlier, other means of payment are already being used (a LOT more than bitcoin will be). Even Saudis are talking about dumping US dollar and using Yuan for oil exports!

[Wind_FURY]

a country that wants to avoid sanctions in this way benefit from using Bitcoin.

Countries can not and do not use bitcoin to avoid sanctions.

Debatable because any entity can use Bitcoin to settle the payment side of things.

It's a pretty simple matter, if country A is sanctioned by country B then country A can not use any means of payment including bitcoin to trade with country B or any country following B. And if country A and C don't give a shit about sanctions they will trade with each other with or without bitcoin.

The point of Bitcoin is the country that sanctioned "country A" can't censor any entity that decides to send, receive, or settle payments through Bitcoin.

Keep in mind that bitcoin has the most transparent ledger in the world. So for example if country D was worried a little about getting sanctioned because of trading with country A, it would never use bitcoin!

There are limitations, but there are solutions. Plus "taint" doesn't exist in the blockchain. It doesn't make Bitcoin less censorship-resistant.

Bitcoin is just another way to dump US dollar as reserve currency and for trades. Sanctions only give the incentive to do it faster.

As I said earlier, other means of payment are already being used (a LOT more than bitcoin will be). Even Saudis are talking about dumping US dollar and using Yuan for oil exports!

Yuan is an alternative, Bitcoin is another alternative. Any entity is free to choose.

[kryptqnick]

It seems to be news from the official Russian media, but the emphasis is on the following "Russia considering energy sales to 'friendly' nations in Bitcoin", and if we know that only 5 countries supported Russia in what it is currently doing, and 35 were not for or against - then we need to ask ourselves who will pay for oil and gas with Bitcoin? A nice society has gathered, but at least we know where politics is rotten and where we can expect some new dictator like this one who is currently in the spotlight.

I like this map, it puts things into perspective, so thanks for sharing it. Russia really doesn't have strong allies, fortunately. If we count those who abstained, Kazakhstan is pretty big on Bitcoin mining, so perhaps they would go for it. Also, there are many African countries that abstained, and it's often discussed how Africa is pro-crypto. But I think what Russia needs is unfriendly countries buying its gas, and those won't pay in cryptos. As for friendly ones, I don't understand why Bitcoin is needed at all (can't they simply use their own or Russia's local fiat?).

The news in my country are that Russia is going to be accepting rubles for selling oil and gas to the hostile countries(USA,Canada,UK,Austrslia and most of European countries).

But from the Russian sources I saw on the matter, it was actually suggested as an option for friendly, not hostile countries. Hostile countries are already saying that paying in ruble is in violation of the contracts, and they can easily say the same about Bitcoin. Oh, and the US, I believe, already imposed a full embargo on Russian gas and oil.

[zasad@]

I can understand what bloggers like MMCrypto are screaming for hype
https://twitter.com/MMCrypto/status/1507288255074557957
"BREAKING NEWS: Russia is considering energy sales to some nations in #Bitcoin!"

If you think about it logically, Russia will never do this.
Kazakhstan, China, Belarus are actively importing goods to Russia.

[suzanne5223]

Yes, for those that care about the surge in the price of Bitcoin this is good news but in the season when this decision was made by the Russian to escape the US sanction while their Senate is already feeling discontent with the decision of the El Salvador government of signing Bitcoin as legal tender this could lead to something else.

Even i pointed out these views here, these sort of the legal struggle going on globally and if countries are overcoming the sanctions with a decentralized currency, what will be the decisions they are going to make when they pass the law on cryptocurrencies and how they are going to handle them is a slippery slope situation. Hopefully we will not see any drastic measures being taken against the entire space.

We both know that the US government won't like a circumstance that made them powerless, especially when they are unable to achieve the purpose of their sanction on the Russian.
It is clear that the decentralization of Bitcoin was the reason why most of the US Senate never liked Bitcoin but this Russian decision just added salt to the wound and I am sure there will be some big restrictions that will be introduced by the US government.

[pooya87]

The point of Bitcoin is the country that sanctioned "country A" can't censor any entity that decides to send, receive, or settle payments through Bitcoin.

It is not about censoring at all, it is about what would happen next to the entities that broke the sanction, they too will be sanctioned. It's essentially the fear of punishment that outweighs the benefits of the trade that prevents some entities from having relations with country A! Otherwise if the benefits were more (like Germany and other European countries) or if they didn't even care about them (like China, Iran, ...) they would just ignore the sanctions.

There are limitations, but there are solutions. Plus "taint" doesn't exist in the blockchain. It doesn't make Bitcoin less censorship-resistant.

Again it is not about censoring but about finding out and then punishing those involved.

Yuan is an alternative, Bitcoin is another alternative. Any entity is free to choose.

Interestingly enough Russia is now demanding that those Europeans receiving Russian gas have to pay with Ruble from now on

[Wind_FURY]

The point of Bitcoin is the country that sanctioned "country A" can't censor any entity that decides to send, receive, or settle payments through Bitcoin.

It is not about censoring at all, it is about what would happen next to the entities that broke the sanction, they too will be sanctioned. It's essentially the fear of punishment that outweighs the benefits of the trade that prevents some entities from having relations with country A! Otherwise if the benefits were more (like Germany and other European countries) or if they didn't even care about them (like China, Iran, ...) they would just ignore the sanctions.

There are limitations, but there are solutions. Plus "taint" doesn't exist in the blockchain. It doesn't make Bitcoin less censorship-resistant.

Again it is not about censoring but about finding out and then punishing those involved.

OK, if you're debating about "the situation", not about the medium of payment, then it won't matter which medium of exchange is being used whether Gold, Yuan, or Russia's SWIFT-alternative.

My standpoint was, "country A" can't be censored from making payments through Bitcoin by any entity, which I believe makes it a powerful alternative to solve the payment side of things.

Yuan is an alternative, Bitcoin is another alternative. Any entity is free to choose.

Interestingly enough Russia is now demanding that those Europeans receiving Russian gas have to pay with Ruble from now on

The reason is to help regain the value of the Ruble, which crashed > 20% against the Dollar.

[Lucius]

I like this map, it puts things into perspective, so thanks for sharing it. Russia really doesn't have strong allies, fortunately.

I agree that it is good to see who is on which side, or rather which countries stand by Russia for political or economic reasons. Personally, I was most surprised by El Salvador, but I guess we have to come to terms with the fact that anyone can use Bitcoin, and at the same time can have very strange moral values. As for the allies, I would not agree that Russia does not have them, because China and India have over 2.5 billion people, and let's not forget that China is also a nuclear power.

Interestingly enough Russia is now demanding that those Europeans receiving Russian gas have to pay with Ruble from now on

Interestingly, they did not remember that from the first day when the same EU imposed sanctions on them, but waited for the spring sun to shine over the EU and now give us a chance to elegantly terminate contracts due to changing conditions. If you ask me, I think the EU (and the rest of the world) is helping Ukraine just enough to keep it alive - and one of their officials said they spend the military aid they receive in a week in one day. For those who know how to read between the lines, everything is pretty clear - your house is on fire, and the neighbors bring you a bucket of water and say they helped you put out the fire.

[JoyMarsha]

This is wonderful news and steps taken by the Russians. Since the UK government has given them the strict sanction of not making deals with any country, their economy has been bad ever since. Russians accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment is a fantastic idea, they can now trade their oil and gas anonymously with countries without being traced.

Bitcoin ascending to $85k is possible this year.