Bitcoin Forum
May 01, 2024, 10:29:44 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: An Idea To Increase the Efficiency of Bitcoin Mining by an Order of Magnitude  (Read 447 times)
larry_vw_1955
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 354


View Profile
January 28, 2022, 01:38:45 AM
 #21


He clearly said "very limited application" because it depends on sunlight availability. I'm fairly sure it's possible to run C program (since Lightelligence already made device to run AI), but applications which need to be run all the time/without downtime certainly won't use optical computing.


can you give an example of something that needs to "run all the time without downtime"? bitcoin mining is not such an example.
1714559384
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714559384

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714559384
Reply with quote  #2

1714559384
Report to moderator
If you see garbage posts (off-topic, trolling, spam, no point, etc.), use the "report to moderator" links. All reports are investigated, though you will rarely be contacted about your reports.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
xcrunner2414 (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 91


View Profile
January 28, 2022, 02:31:35 AM
 #22


He clearly said "very limited application" because it depends on sunlight availability. I'm fairly sure it's possible to run C program (since Lightelligence already made device to run AI), but applications which need to be run all the time/without downtime certainly won't use optical computing.


can you give an example of something that needs to "run all the time without downtime"? bitcoin mining is not such an example.

Well, to be fair to ETFbitcoin, I think most people would mine 24/7 if that was also the most economical mining schedule. But you're right, with this technique the mining would only occur at those times when the intensity of available sunlight is sufficient, which means the miners would not "run all the time without downtime". However, sunlight availability was the primary reason why I wrote that the application of this technology would probably be very limited.

However, if I really allow my imagination to run wild, perhaps this technology could be applied to all data centers. Again, I am not an expert, and this would certainly be an enormous engineering challenge... but, theoretically, if sunlight could be concentrated into a single source of very intense and powerful coherent light, and that light could be sufficiently split and distributed amongst many computers... and if the fresnel lens apparatus (which concentrates the sunlight into coherent light) could seamlessly be swapped for an artificially powered, high-intensity laser during the night to produce an equivalent source of coherent light, then I suppose this could also provide large efficiency benefits to regular ol' data centers. However, I think we're still something like a decade away from general purpose optical computers becoming commercialized.

Additionally, I briefly read that solar-pumped lasers could be used to concentrate sunlight to the effect of increasing the efficiency of solar panels, or something like that, but that has nothing to do with the optical computing stuff.
larry_vw_1955
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 354


View Profile
January 29, 2022, 04:48:06 AM
 #23


While it's not concentrated, Rjukan (which located on Norwey) had such experiment by directing sunlight using mirror[1]. But directing alone costs 5 million Norwegian Kroner (NOK) or about 558.000 USD which bring some criticism[2].


If the mirrors last long enough, it might pay itself off in "creature comforts".
xcrunner2414 (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 91


View Profile
January 29, 2022, 06:03:51 AM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #24


While it's not concentrated, Rjukan (which located on Norwey) had such experiment by directing sunlight using mirror[1]. But directing alone costs 5 million Norwegian Kroner (NOK) or about 558.000 USD which bring some criticism[2].

Yes, that cost is likely due to the use of a heliostat. While a heliostat is desirable, it's not technically a required component for this technique to work. I can think of two alternatives:

1. The fresnel lens is stationary, no heliostat, and it only concentrates the sun's rays into a laser for a short duration each day.
2. Some brilliant mathematician/physicist/engineer devises a 4π fresnel lens that can focus the sun's rays from any angle into a laser, no heliostat required.

Or, perhaps a supplementary PV panel could be used to provide power to the heliostat.
xcrunner2414 (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11
Merit: 91


View Profile
April 01, 2022, 11:02:13 PM
 #25

I've just learned about Lagrange Points, which are "points of equilibrium for small-mass objects under the influence of two massive orbiting bodies." Lagrange point 1 is located between the Earth and the Sun.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Lagrange_points2.svg

A Bitcoin Mining operation that relies purely on solar power could remain operational 24/7/365 if it was positioned at Lagrange point 1, with no possibility of clouds obscuring the line-of-sight to the Sun.
larry_vw_1955
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 354


View Profile
April 02, 2022, 01:28:02 AM
Merited by vapourminer (2), ABCbits (1)
 #26

I've just learned about Lagrange Points, which are "points of equilibrium for small-mass objects under the influence of two massive orbiting bodies." Lagrange point 1 is located between the Earth and the Sun.



A Bitcoin Mining operation that relies purely on solar power could remain operational 24/7/365 if it was positioned at Lagrange point 1, with no possibility of clouds obscuring the line-of-sight to the Sun.

in theory yes but in practice, there's other considerations. rocket fuel has to be used to maintain the position so when the rocket fuel runs out it won't be able to maintain its position. the total cost of putting the mining hardware into orbit and such could be rather large. assuming a limited lifetime of operation, it has to recoup the costs and make a profit on top of that. i highly doubt even elon musk would gamble on something like that lol.

as an example, the james webb telescope had a cost of about 9 billion us dollars to put it into orbit at L2. they expect it to have enough propellant to keep it in orbit for 10 years.

also, check my math here but L1 is located 1.5 million km from earth. it takes light about 5 seconds to travel that far. that delay would be a problem for bitcoin mining. could be.
larry_vw_1955
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 354


View Profile
April 03, 2022, 02:16:46 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #27


Additionally, whoever want to do it will face critic from public since effort to bring Bitcoin miner to space could be used for scientific research on space instead. But it could be solid plan on distant future.

i doubt a government would ever go to that extreme to mine bitcoin. not even sure governments are interested in mining bitcoin for example the usa government can just print more money anytime it wants. or make their own digital currency and control it.

Quote
From quick research, the number you mentioned seems to be correct. But it's only applicable if you perform solo mining. If you join a pool, you need to consider time for pool to send work and time to send result of the work to the pool.

It should be possible even if with 10s delay, but
1. If you join pool, they will mark some share (result of the work) as invalid share.
2. If you perform solo mining, your block could lose to another pool which mine block <5 second after you did and become stale block.

5 second delay is both ways to and from. then satellites around earth have to communicate with things down on the earth surface. another delay. the latencies add up. how many miners miss out on a block reward by seconds? how about 10 seconds?

another issue is, this thing that is out at L1 becomes outdated tech as new tech is developed and put into use on earth that has a larger hash rate. making it even less productive over time...and you can't easily replace it or upgrade it or do any type of maintenance.


j2002ba2
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 204
Merit: 437


View Profile
April 03, 2022, 06:43:09 AM
Merited by ABCbits (1)
 #28

A Bitcoin Mining operation that relies purely on solar power could remain operational 24/7/365 if it was positioned at Lagrange point 1, with no possibility of clouds obscuring the line-of-sight to the Sun.

There's a big problem with heat dissipation in space. How would this setup cool the miners? It would need enormous radiators for dealing with all the heat.

Unless one breaks the 2nd law of thermodynamics this looks quite bad. But then no need to go in space - no problems with heat, noise, space, and most importantly, no need of any power supply. This would break most PoW assumptions though.

mikeywith
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2212
Merit: 6366


be constructive or S.T.F.U


View Profile
April 04, 2022, 04:02:27 AM
 #29

But it's only applicable if you perform solo mining. If you join a pool, you need to consider time for pool to send work and time to send result of the work to the pool.
It should be possible even if with 10s delay, but
1. If you join pool, they will mark some share (result of the work) as invalid share.
2. If you perform solo mining, your block could lose to another pool which mine block <5 second after you did and become stale block.

a 10 seconds latency in BTC mining is very costly since the mining pool won't be paying you money out of their own pocket, most pools will send new work within a few seconds and thus the majority of the shares you submit will be invalid, mining solo with such latency will also increase your stale block size by a large margin, but this idea is still applicable if the cost of setup and operation is a lot lower than mining on planet earth, although I highly doubt that this will be the case.

█▀▀▀











█▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
e
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
█████████████
████████████▄███
██▐███████▄█████▀
█████████▄████▀
███▐████▄███▀
████▐██████▀
█████▀█████
███████████▄
████████████▄
██▄█████▀█████▄
▄█████████▀█████▀
███████████▀██▀
████▀█████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
c.h.
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀█











▄▄▄█
▄██████▄▄▄
█████████████▄▄
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███████████████
███░░█████████
███▌▐█████████
█████████████
███████████▀
██████████▀
████████▀
▀██▀▀
Cryptoctupus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 8
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 04, 2022, 04:00:39 PM
 #30

totally agree, why not to use our main power source....
the largest source of energy (work) in the solar system (the sun) as a source of coherence (for logical operations...

best look in finding accurate team!!
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!