Is the society matured enough to handle privacy?

[Smack That Ace]

Its true that fiat has so many restrictions that we feel uncomfortable talking about personal privacy, but don't forget that fiat is the measure of the value of all other things including gold. Without fiat we wouldn't be able to determine the value of bitcoin, getting rid of fiat entirely and replacing it with a decentralized currency would be impossible. I think a world where both bitcoin and fiat coexist is better, fiat is still essential in our daily needs.

[hatshepsut93]

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Decentralization and privacy are not the same. Privacy is not letting others know about your actions, decentralization is lack of central control over system.

A society with total privacy can not function, because things like law enforcement, taxation, military conscription and lots of other things. A society with total decentralization would also be dysfunctional, because it wouldn't be able to defend itself, solve any major crisis, have any national program and so on.

If a country ditched their national currency for Bitcoin, they would be extremely vulnerable to its volatility and it would be very hard to perform certain functions. Imagine if a country sets a budget of 100,000 BTC for the next year, and Bitcoin crashes by 30% and now they have to find more BTC or cut some programs. Then Bitcoin rebounds and the plan needs to be changed again.

[noorman0]

I don't see much difference either pre or post blockchain innovation. We can only see how these people's identities deal with their money when confronted with something decentralized, when they can hide behind more "private" finances or have their own financial sovereignty.

Privacy is not only used for evil, but also to protect against evil.

[kryptqnick]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.  So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

I am not disputing  the fact many still have genuine  reason for going private which include bank frustration and restrictions,  withdrawal  limits and declaration  of assets and investment as claim for legal possession  of a certain  amount  of fiat in a local bank.

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

The op's saying many want Bitcoin to fund illegal activities, but IMO it was the case before, years ago, whereas now Bitcoin is being carefully watched and, in many cases, regulated, so it's not very efficient to ditch fiat for it for illegal stuff. I think instead the main motive is using fiat as money, but Bitcoin as an investment. And it can also be judged, sure, but people can do what they want and use Bitcoin the way they see fit. After all, Bitcoin wasn't built to be as private as possible, or otherwise all transactions wouldn't be visible on the blockchain. So privacy matters more to some and less to others, and talking about society as a whole is simplifying things. Also, I don't think it's right to judge people for not caring enough about their privacy. Privacy is a right, not an obligation, and if some are okay with KYC procedures, for example, they shouldn't be blamed for being 'not mature enough to handle privacy' IMO.

[Franctoshi]

When you're talking about privacy, any third party aside you is not able to manage your privacy...your data is almost all over the internet how would you know when they're leaked... let me draw your attention to mark Zuckerberg Data and privacy leaked which lead to him been interogated by Congress men should be a sign enough that the society isn't mature enough to handle privacy.
I think that the society as it is right now can't handle privacy with the increasing numbers of hackers everyday on the internet, not sure.

[slackovic]

When you're talking about privacy, any third party aside you is not able to manage your privacy...your data is almost all over the internet how would you know when they're leaked... let me draw your attention to mark Zuckerberg Data and privacy leaked which lead to him been interogated by Congress men should be a sign enough that the society isn't mature enough to handle privacy.
I think that the society as it is right now can't handle privacy with the increasing numbers of hackers everyday on the internet, not sure.

People like their conform more than they like privacy. It has always been like that and Bitcoin is no exception. When I ask someone where do they keep their crypto, the answer is almost always on an exchange. They care about their privacy but not enough to go trough the trouble of creating their own wallet. It's easier for someone else to keep their crypto just like they trust banks with their fiat money. I have given up explaining why should they keep their crypto on their personal wallets and not on an exchange.

[BlackHatCoiner]

A society with total privacy can not function, because things like law enforcement, taxation, military conscription and lots of other things.

A society can work with total privacy; what it can't work with is total secrecy, which is what you probably meant.

Privacy is when you don't want to be known from the whole world. Secrecy is when you don't want to be known by anyone. A private matter can be revealed when it is desired by the individual. But, a secret matter must not be revealed. When you send a message over the internet using strong encryption, it's not necessarily meant to be kept secret, but read by only those for whom you intend to.

Not only can it work, but it's fundamental for the society's safety, for the preservation of democracy and freedom of speech in general.

[Smartvirus]

Whe  it comes to privacy and bitcoin dishing our fiat to fund what ever.

There have also been money laundrers who do the same with fiat, using celebrities, company accounts and more to hide funds. People talk about corruption and somehow, .any stolen funds acrostic world are often dumped in a Swiss account hence the phrase, 'A Swiss banker' and then bitcoin comes forth then, they recall that, its the only criminal tool out there for staying off the grid.

Stopping or making a centralise system out of bitcoin wouldn't stop or solve the world's problems. If leaders of the world could stop themselves from themselves and resolve to abstain from corrupt practices then, they would enjoy all that cryptocurrency is here to offer. Not to mention, sending money across the world and get it credited in seconds or minutes.

[Odusko]

I don't belong to the school of thought that says Bitcoin/cryptocurrency to replace fiant this is so because decentralized currency can only serve as an alternative but not a replacement, so even though the central bank and its affiliated agency will sort to collect information which gives up privacy the truth of the matter is there is no 100% privacy even on the decentralized blockchain.

[hatshepsut93]

Privacy is when you don't want to be known from the whole world. Secrecy is when you don't want to be known by anyone. A private matter can be revealed when it is desired by the individual. But, a secret matter must not be revealed.

Law enforcement and other government agencies need to break people's privacy in order to function. If citizens could just say "I have no desire to let my house be searched" when police is conducting a criminal investigation, then how would society work? How would the government collect taxes if people decided to refuse to share any of their financial information? Secrecy is just a subcategory of privacy, it's not a separate thing.

[endut15]

Crypto technology seems to be getting more and more powerful, in fact very many say it will replace fiat in the future. But if you look back, making crypto or bitcoin that can replace fiat in any transaction is very difficult to implement. Crypto technology is all over the world, but not everyone can use this technology. there are even primitive societies, they still live naturally.

[Oilacris]

Crypto technology seems to be getting more and more powerful, in fact very many say it will replace fiat in the future. But if you look back, making crypto or bitcoin that can replace fiat in any transaction is very difficult to implement. Crypto technology is all over the world, but not everyone can use this technology. there are even primitive societies, they still live naturally.

People should really realize and accept the fact that it wont really be possible or totally impossible as long government does exist then this wont really happen.Speaking with primitive societies then its

true which not all corners of the world are really that aware of its existence thats why traditional or the common fiat system would really still remain.
About privacy then expect that there would be people whom do really taking out some advantage when it comes to its anonymity which is already that anticipated or expected.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Law enforcement and other government agencies need to break people's privacy in order to function.

Sure, no society is perfect. It also needs national defense; the question is what's the sacrifices for it. The fact of the matter is that if you take a lot of portion from health care, education, allowances etc. to strengthen it, you're likely to make things worse.

My point is: If you put protection above your rights, you're soon going to lose both. You're not far from having your liberty curbed in the name of counter-terrorism that way.

Also, in lots of countries the police has to take permission to enter into houses. I don't know if that applies in the USA.

How would the government collect taxes if people decided to refuse to share any of their financial information?

The government doesn't, the rich evade taxes, I know and I get the harm. But, let's assume they couldn't refuse to share their financial information. Let's say that whoever attempted would have their head taken. Now everyone's forced to tell the truth. The society is full of fairness, isn't it?

[goldkingcoiner]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.  So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

I am not disputing  the fact many still have genuine  reason for going private which include bank frustration and restrictions,  withdrawal  limits and declaration  of assets and investment as claim for legal possession  of a certain  amount  of fiat in a local bank.

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

Obviously we have not matured beyond succumbing to the basic "instinct" of greed and corruption which is in all of humankind. It's just how we are. If anything, you can be 100% sure that people will abuse the trust of others if they can get away with it.

But if you think about it for a bit, you begin to realize that Privacy is called freedom. The freedom to be unbound and unwatched.

The cost of freedom is self-destructive behavior.

[darkv0rt3x]

I think the problem is not maturity. Or better, maybe it is, but in my opinion, the problem is that internet made everything too easy and people are not willing to make any effort to educate themselves. Also, over time, the internet became a not so goo place to educate ourselves if we don't do some research on our own and simply go for the first things that comes up in our favourite search engine! There are tons of misinformation and adding to that, people became too lazy.

About privacy, well, we are living in what I call a transition time, meaning that we were thrown into a global big brother without us knowing understanding what we were getting into! These global companies like Google, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram and so many others, made us to embrace this huge data collection scheme and no one was prepared nor understood what was going on. By now, we see laws trying to protect our data but failing completely because those laws seems to be completely jammed and we are now almost being forced to hand over our data. We are now at an almost no-turning back point, because in the last 10 years or so, we already handed some much information that we won't be able to cancel it, remove it from the hands of those who are making billions and billions of profit with our data.

There are some movements, people, groups, etc that are trying, what they call to "de-google" ourselves, but it's not easy and not enough to stop this massive information sharing by third parties.
I'm not sure what will improve if we start using a smartphone that don't use Google products like OSs (Android), or iOS or Huawei OSs. They will always be collecting data no matter what. Same for our browsers in our laptops and desktops. Same goes for these crap called cookies and 3rd parties that we almost are forced to accept or we simply can't see the contents of a site!

This said, to stop this problem you either turn yourself into an animal inside a dense forest and use no electronic devices or you just can't escape!
There is, globally, alliances between countries for surveillance. Who never heard about 5 Eyes, Prism and others? NSA, CIA, FBI, Interpol and so many other state agencies that collect themselves tons of information, spy on us, etc, etc! This is an endless subject to discuss.

[GreatArkansas]

There are a lot of people that don't care about privacy. They don't even know are basics of privacy, they don't care about it.
For me, society is still not mature, and still lacks education when it comes to privacy especially day by day, technology evolves very fast and some people are left behind. The major problem now is privacy.
Especially now with Bitcoin, for sure most of people who are using Bitcoin starting to care about privacy because that is one of the feature of Bitcoin.

[RealMalatesta]

I have thought a lot about it, personally I think that governments and banks will eventuality release their own wallets in which you will need to pass KYC just to have access to them, they will never reveal your private keys or seed words and you will be able to use your coins everywhere there is a government registered business that deals with cryptocurrencies, obviously people like us will never accept something like this, but it will not surprise me if regular people actually did as they care way more about convenience than their own rights and the principles behind bitcoin.

The government is already doing that . they have their own wallet and their own digital currency, although this does not apply to every country in the world. And of course like you have said, regular people will always accept whatever the government give to them as long as it is easy for them to operate. There are lots of people who do not care about all these privacy stuff that most of us do care about.

As long as what they are being given is convenient enough for them , then they would go for it and wouldn’t mind anything about privacy or not. One of the countries that has their wallet and CBDC is China, the digital Yuan.

[amishmanish]

Societies are as mature as the individuals. Take example of satoshi. He made bitcoin and this wonderful community all while staying anonymus. Just think of a tyrant who might collect funds anonymously and run away. Leaving investors ruined and damaged. Thus its not the power that is dangeous, but who wields it makes the difference.

[Cookdata]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.  So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

This is very wrong mate. Privacy is legal, learn to differentiate between doing illegal online things and trying to let your things out from the public. Just because I don't want chain analysis to experiment with how and when I spend my bitcoin doesn't make it a bad thing. There are many things you should do to keep your privacy on the check as a bitcoin holder, I talked about it on one of my threads: Privacy is not a crime, learn to do it yourself (DIY)

If your want to know the importance of privacy, learn how bitcoin node work behind the scene or try and run one yourself, you will see the beauty of been a privacy person.

[Slow death]

Privacy is good and bad at the same time.  And what becomes of it is dependent  on who handles it and how the handle it.  So far many wants to have bitcoin  ditch  out  fiat not for the intent of  having total control of their funds but for the sake of funding illegal activities  online without  any point of trace,  regulations,  monitoring  or prevention.

I am not disputing  the fact many still have genuine  reason for going private which include bank frustration and restrictions,  withdrawal  limits and declaration  of assets and investment as claim for legal possession  of a certain  amount  of fiat in a local bank.

But with the insecurity  and economic  crisis hitting the world from all angle is it still safe to agitate for a complete  decentralized  society  ditching  the fiat for bitcoin.  I only see both existing  together  with more preference on decentralization  but my concern  is if man is matured enough to handle the innovation or are you also seeing the abuse  of privacy coming along with it

with this regulatory issue, the future has become something that people will simply have to settle for saying goodbye to things like privacy and anonymity, KYC is here to stay, banks and governments won't want to play ignoring jokes that anyone is using regulated services without having done KYC. This is why I think the world is not ready for privacy