Keeping coins on Wallets

[kalihunter]

Hello community,

I have newbie questions:

where is recommended to keep coins safe and get some incomes/profits from them?

Exchange servers or on cold/warm wallets?

if wallets which one is trustworthy Atomic wallet, Exodus or..?

and which Exchange server is your preferred? Kucoin or Binance?

Thanks.

[1715478438]

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[1715478438]

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[hosseinimr93]

where is recommended to keep coins safe and get some incomes/profits from them?

If you are looking for a service giving you interest, there is no secure option for you.
For getting interest, you have to give your coins to a third party and I wouldn't recommend anyone to do so.  

Exchange servers or on cold/warm wallets?

An exchange (as its name suggests) should be used for exchanging your coins. You shouldn't use an exchange for holding your coins.
With using an exchange, you give a third party full control over your fund.

It's always recommended to use cold wallets. It can be a hardware wallet or a paper wallet.
Note that if you want to use a software as a cold wallet, you should generate the private keys (or the seed phrase) on an airgapped device and your private keys (and your seed phrase) should never touch the internet.
If you want to spend your coins every day, a cold wallet may not be a good option for you. But note you still need to make sure that the wallet has been created on a secure device. Never keep big amounts on hot wallets.

A good wallet which I can recommend to you is electrum. It's an open-source wallet which gives you full control over your fund. Electrum can be used as both cold and hot wallets. Just note that electrum only supports bitcoin and if you want to hold altcoins, you need other wallets. If you are looking for a multi-currency wallet, it's better to go for a hardware wallet.

if wallets which one is trustworthy Atomic wallet, Exodus or..?

Both Atomic and Exodus are close-source and we don't know what's exactly happening in those wallets. It's possible that they have access to your private keys.

[Pmalek]

where is recommended to keep coins safe and get some incomes/profits from them?

You are probably talking about staking or using DeFi lending and borrowing platforms. You should know that such platforms are prone to different accidents. Hacking, bugs & vulnerabilities, exit scams/rug pulls, etc. Whatever the case, it's the end user (like yourself) that ends up losing money. A much better option is to purchase Bitcoin whenever you can and keep it in a good non-custodial and open-source wallet. If you don't make mistakes with the handling and securing of your keys, a 3rd party can't become the reason why you lost access to your coins. 

Exchange servers or on cold/warm wallets?

Never on exchanges. Always in wallets whose keys you control and only you.

if wallets which one is trustworthy Atomic wallet, Exodus or..?

Neither of them. Atomic Wallet has a bad history of selective scamming. Exodus doesn't from what I am aware of, but hosseinimr93 already explained its shortcomings.   

and which Exchange server is your preferred? Kucoin or Binance?

If you don't want to use decentralized exchanges like Bisq and you insist on a centralized one, take a look at FTX. It's got low and even free withdrawals.

[dkbit98]

where is recommended to keep coins safe and get some incomes/profits from them?

You can't have both safety and profit from coins if you are using some centralized services and exchanges.
If you want safety you should use cold wallets or something like hardware wallets, that should be used if you have larger amount of coins.
You can experiment with some services that earn interest on Bitcoin but you should know that you are not holding private keys for those coins, and they can always get hacked or leak your infoirmation.

if wallets which one is trustworthy Atomic wallet, Exodus or..?

Both of them are closed source and I don't recommend them for anyone who is serious with keeping their coins safe.
Best light wallet you can use for bitcoin is Electrum, and if you want to store other altcoins consider using some hardware wallets.

and which Exchange server is your preferred? Kucoin or Binance?

I am not using this exchanges now and I switched to only true decentralized exchange called Bisq and AtomicDex for atomic swaps.
Kucoin has clear advantage compared to Binance, because you can still use it even without passing kyc verification, but both exchanges can freeze your coins and account at any time.

[sheenshane]

where is recommended to keep coins safe and get some incomes/profits from them?

It might be what you mean is staking coins and there's no wallet that has a feature, except the exchange but first, researches it first which exchange is the best to entrust your fund.  This is the tougher choice that you need to have research first and don't rely on any financial advice.

Exchange servers or on cold/warm wallets?

They are totally different, for safety and holding for the long term, non-custodial wallet or hardware wallets is the best choice.
Remember always as our golden rule, "Not your keys, not your coins"

and which Exchange server is your preferred? Kucoin or Binance?

If you're not afraid of KYC and you're willing to give your personal documents to them, Binance is good to entrust your fund as a third party who holds your fund, as the feature they have (SAFU) which is the promised a secure fund of users, it might be they are a good choice since they are reputable, Kucoin doesn't have this but they don't have KYC as their minimum limit.

It's your call now which you prefer, DYOR is always in every decision you plan to make.

[BitMaxz]

It seems that you are looking for a wallet with a staking feature where you can able to make a profit or have an interest.

You already mention two wallets have this feature but the problem is I don't recommend those wallets to hold your coins.

If you want to hold your coins safely use a hardware wallet but they do not have a staking feature. If you want to stake and make a profit holding them only choose a coin that has its own developed wallet where you can able to host it with yourself. Sample Solana if you want to become one of their validator you need to have a node where all of your Solana is in staking and earn rewards.

Exchanges are also offered staking like Binance and Kucoin but most people here do not recommend holding coins on exchanges. But for me, if this is the only option you have I choose Binance than Kucoin. I have both experienced using these exchanges but I mostly use Binance than Kucoin.

And take note there is no quick rich scheme on staking there are also risks holding these coins/token the price of those coins/tokens is dropped pretty quick.

[Pmalek]

If you want to hold your coins safely use a hardware wallet but they do not have a staking feature.

Ledger offers staking possibilities for several POS coins in Ledger Live. OP can take a look at https://www.ledger.com/staking if he is interested. I am not sure if Trezor provides similar features because I don't remember anyone ever writing about it.

Ledger has also partnered with several 3rd parties who offer their services through Ledger Live and the Discover tab. Among those offers, you can also find staking possibilities. But neither Ledger nor the end-user remains in control of the coins. The 3rd party apps are.   

[kalihunter]

Thanks for your times friends all of you and your useful guides. I always trying to learn from experienced people.

I am planning to purchase some BTC when i have and can afford to put it on BTC for holdings. I will try purchase little by little whenever i will be able and will use Electrum as you friends advised me.

In exchanges i will just will keep for alts for some profits.

My goal is like that: My main investment 80% will to BTC and 20 % on alts. Hope that is normal .

Thanks.

[sheenshane]

My goal is like that: My main investment 80% will to BTC and 20 % on alts. Hope that is normal .

It's a good decision and it's also good if you'll separate your Bitcoin from your altcoins, use a single wallet that's intended for Bitcoin only not a multi-coin wallet upon storing them.  And a multi-coin or multi-chain wallet for your altcoins.

In exchanges i will just will keep for alts for some profits.

Is this what you've planned for staking your altcoins?
Just choose a decentralized exchange for this, don't ever trust the centralized exchange to entrust your fund for a long period of time.
As ledger staking points out above and this is how Trezor staking guides.

[mk4]

Thanks for your times friends all of you and your useful guides. I always trying to learn from experienced people.

I am planning to purchase some BTC when i have and can afford to put it on BTC for holdings. I will try purchase little by little whenever i will be able and will use Electrum as you friends advised me.

In exchanges i will just will keep for alts for some profits.

My goal is like that: My main investment 80% will to BTC and 20 % on alts. Hope that is normal .

Thanks.

Once your BTC holdings gets to the point that it's already a good amount of money, immediately grab a hardware wallet. At some point you need to beef up your security so you won't lose your funds from hackers.

https://cryptosec.info/wallets
https://ledger.com/
https://trezor.io/

[hosseinimr93]

I will try purchase little by little whenever i will be able and will use Electrum as you friends advised me.

Electrum is surely a good wallet and it's usually the first wallet which comes to my mind whenever someone asks me to recommend a wallet.
As I said in my previous post, electrum can be used as both hot and cold wallets.
With using electrum, you don't guarantee the safety of your coins. It depends on how you use electrum.

If you generate the wallet on a device which is connected to internet, there's still the possibility that you get hacked.
If you want 100% security on electrum, you should generate the wallet on an airgapped device and keep the seed phrase and private keys always offline.

[BlackHatCoiner]

You've got your answers, I just want to add you my two cents regarding the way you'll make your purchase. I recently wrote a post where I discourage newbies to use centralized exchanges such as Binance, KuCoin, Coinbase etc. Do me a favor and read it.

You won't keep them on the exchange, I know, you've got perfect answers either way. However, there's no reason to hand out your personal information to such party neither.

[Pmalek]

My goal is like that: My main investment 80% will to BTC and 20 % on alts. Hope that is normal .

There is no such thing as normal portfolio diversification. For some Bitcoiners, the only "normal" thing is to hold BTC and no altcoins because many of them will just lose value long-term. There are shitcoins and then there are some established alts. If you are going to hold shitcoin pump & dumps, an allocation of 20% is too big. Even 1% is too big for that matter. But that's just my opinion. You have to find out what works best for you.

[kalihunter]

I recently wrote a post where I discourage newbies to use centralized exchanges such as Binance

Thanks for useful post.

You won't keep them on the exchange,

I got very useful guides and thanks for it. I installed Electrum but it is one problem that you can not buy BTC from it. you should transfer it from other platform which takes additional fees.

As I said in my previous post, electrum can be used as both hot and cold wallets.

It would be more better if it has purchase features.

Thanks everyone.


 I saw that tpic about Electrum wallet: https://walletscrutiny.com/android/org.electrum.electrum/
what does mean ,,NOT REPRODUCIBLE FROM SOURCE PROVIDED"?

I also found open source wallet Mycelium where is also possible crypto.

[Pmalek]

I saw that tpic about Electrum wallet: https://walletscrutiny.com/android/org.electrum.electrum/
what does mean ,,NOT REPRODUCIBLE FROM SOURCE PROVIDED"?

That means that they attempted to compile the publicly available code into a binary but the resulting app doesn't match the source code. The two binaries are different. They explain the process if you click on the "not reproducible" button. Or just look for the information here: https://walletscrutiny.com/methodology/#nonverifiable

BTW, I think only the mobile version of Electrum is non reproducible. That doesn't apply to the desktop client.

[kalihunter]

Thanks for reply.

What about Mycelium? I will try to select from Electrum mycelium and bisq. what here suggested and searched them looks fine and more secure.

[dkbit98]

What about Mycelium? I will try to select from Electrum mycelium and bisq. what here suggested and searched them looks fine and more secure.

You should test any wallet yourself but Bisq is decentralized exchange, not a wallet, so you can't really compare it with Electrum or Mycelium wallet.
I don't really like Mycelium because they added bunch of advertisement, and Electrum has clean interface with only supporting Bitcoin.
If you need wallet only for storing Bitcoin than I think you should go for Electrum.

[Pmalek]

What about Mycelium?

It depends on the phone you have.
If you are using iPhone, than Mycelium in non-verifiable just like the mobile version of Electrum.
If you have an Android phone, the app is reproducible from source.

Bisq is decentralized exchange, not a wallet, so you can't really compare it with Electrum or Mycelium wallet.

True, but it allows you to generate a new seed just like a non-custodial wallet. You need to write down that seed otherwise you lose access to your coins because there are no accounts like on centralized exchanges. Maybe OP heard about that somewhere and mistakenly confused Bisq with a wallet. Even though it's a non-custodial and decentralized exchange where you are always in control of your coins, it's better to use a proper wallet and use an exchange... for exchanging.   

[khaled0111]

BTW, I think only the mobile version of Electrum is non reproducible. That doesn't apply to the desktop client.

I didn't verify it myself to confirm it but according to Electrum's release notes: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/RELEASE-NOTES, they started supporting and releasing reproducible builds for Android too, and this since version 4.1.3:

# Release 4.1.3 - (June 16, 2021)
 * Builds/binaries:
- Android: the binaries (APKs) should now be reproducible (#7263)

[Pmalek]

I didn't verify it myself to confirm it but according to Electrum's release notes: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/RELEASE-NOTES, they started supporting and releasing reproducible builds for Android too, and this since version 4.1.3

Apparently not according to updated data on Wallet Scrutiny. The last version they tested was 4.2.1 (the app was analyzed today) and it's still showing that the binary is non-reproducible from the provided source code.

[pooya87]

I didn't verify it myself to confirm it but according to Electrum's release notes: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/RELEASE-NOTES, they started supporting and releasing reproducible builds for Android too, and this since version 4.1.3

Apparently not according to updated data on Wallet Scrutiny. The last version they tested was 4.2.1 (the app was analyzed today) and it's still showing that the binary is non-reproducible from the provided source code.

Actually they tested 4.1.5 which can be seen in "The Analysis" section and this was happening due to a bug in the build process which ignored the packages I think. You can read more about it in #7640.
By the way why are they only testing Android builds and not desktop?

[Pmalek]

Actually they tested 4.1.5 which can be seen in "The Analysis" section and this was happening due to a bug in the build process which ignored the packages I think.

You are right, I didn't pay attention to that. If you click on the older reviews where it says "(show 2 of 4 reproducible)", you can see that they tested version 4.1.5.0 two times. The first time was on 19 July 2021 when it was tagged as reproducible from source. The second test was on 21 January 2022 when Electrum was given the verdict non-reproducible.

The info on the site says that the last analysis was today. I wonder why they haven't tested the latest version. 

[kalihunter]

nice guides from you and very informative.

My plan is like this. i wanna use Whonix on VM and setup Electrum wallet for keeping and bisq for purchase BTC.

[nankers]

~snip.

First for questions that are aimed at security on crypto wallets, you can choose to use a hardwallet
The hardwallet itself has a good function in securing the assets we have / you could say this is the wallet of the future

The available hardwallet list itself has various brands
You can see here

The answer to the next question I am more in favor of the exchange server
Due to reducing it, it is likely to be used for shopping or buying necessities.

For a trusted wallet
Can you use binance?
Because binance has Google 2FA which makes secured more secure, requests when different IP logins, and login email codes

More or less depends on the user himself, I think everything is safe, as long as we keep the mnemonic pharse from being owned by others

[Pmalek]

The available hardwallet list itself has various brands
You can see here

No idea what that is supposed to be, but it's not a list of hardware wallets. Ratimov has made a great one for this forum, so there is no need to look elsewhere.
[BIG LIST] Hardware wallets (80+)

For a trusted wallet
Can you use binance?

Binance is not a wallet, it's a centralized exchange. Exchanges should not be used as places where you store your coins. It's purpose is in the name - an exchange of assets.

I think everything is safe, as long as we keep the mnemonic pharse from being owned by others

And how do you do that with coins stored on Binance and similar platforms? Where is your Binance recovery phrase?

[n0nce]

For a trusted wallet
Can you use binance?

Binance is not a wallet, it's a centralized exchange. Exchanges should not be used as places where you store your coins. It's purpose is in the name - an exchange of assets.

An analogy just came to mind: storing funds on an exchange would be similar to going grocery shopping, paying and then just leaving your purchased stuff there. And then coming back later when you want to use the stuff you bought and hope the bag is still sitting there in the corner you left it in.
While it doesn't happen every day, the store could burn down overnight, some employee could steal the bag (or some customer, but that's harder in the exchange scenario). But you get the idea; you wouldn't leave your groceries at the store either or the new PC you bought and hope to pick it up at a later time when you need to use it.

Because binance has Google 2FA which makes secured more secure, requests when different IP logins, and login email codes

More or less depends on the user himself, I think everything is safe, as long as we keep the mnemonic pharse from being owned by others

If you use Binance to store your funds, you're literally leaving the groceries in the store. You can't get them if the store is closed, denies you access, burns down or goes bankrupt.
It doesn't matter that they make it harder to log in using 2FA and such; you don't have actual ownership of your funds. That's what matters.

[kalihunter]

By the way why are they only testing Android builds and not desktop?

It might be because they only focus on 4 different category (Bearer Token, App Store, Play Store and Hardware Wallet).

My plan is like this. i wanna use Whonix on VM and setup Electrum wallet for keeping and bisq for purchase BTC.

Just wondering, what host OS do you use?

My OS is Arch Linux Based. I am running Virtualbox and Whonix OS with Tor. |For online safety and privacy its great.

[dkbit98]

For a trusted wallet
Can you use binance?
Because binance has Google 2FA which makes secured more secure, requests when different IP logins, and login email codes

Binance is not a trusted wallet, it's just centralized exchange used for exchanging coins and fiat, not for holding coins.
2fA, IP logins and other bs means nothing if we know the fact that Binance was already hacked multiple times, all documents got leaked and sold on internet.
Many of us could see images of people holding passport circulating in internet for free, so it's obviously not a trusted place.

More or less depends on the user himself, I think everything is safe, as long as we keep the mnemonic pharse from being owned by others

You wont get far with thinking like that, and you can think whatever you want for yourself but don't spread your wrong ideas to other people please.
Mnenomic phrases are not owned by you as a customer if you use any of the centralized services you mentioned before.

[pooya87]

For a trusted wallet
Can you use binance?
Because binance has Google 2FA which makes secured more secure, requests when different IP logins, and login email codes

Binance is not a trusted wallet, it's just centralized exchange used for exchanging coins and fiat, not for holding coins.
2fA, IP logins and other bs means nothing if we know the fact that Binance was already hacked multiple times, all documents got leaked and sold on internet.
Many of us could see images of people holding passport circulating in internet for free, so it's obviously not a trusted place.

More or less depends on the user himself, I think everything is safe, as long as we keep the mnemonic pharse from being owned by others

You wont get far with thinking like that, and you can think whatever you want for yourself but don't spread your wrong ideas to other people please.
Mnenomic phrases are not owned by you as a customer if you use any of the centralized services you mentioned before.

It is also worth knowing that centralized exchanges like Binance do not guarantee safety and return of the money you are keeping with them. They will always give you all kinds of fake assurances but in reality they can choose to not pay you in case they were hacked and lost your money. You had also agreed to thtose terms when you signed up!

[kalihunter]

As i reading here and on other forums there are no safe place on WEB/WWW. All sites are under attack all day. And no one is safe and once all fails as it happened to cryptopia.nz or .com. hope that never happens again and all exchanges will do their bests to keep customers and themself safe.

[kalihunter]

Just wondering, what host OS do you use?

My OS is Arch Linux Based. I am running Virtualbox and Whonix OS with Tor. |For online safety and privacy its great.

Sounds good to me assuming you're willing to setup and maintain rolling-based linux distro. Just remember newest linux kernel might not supported by virtualbox for some time.

Thanks for advise. really i had not had idea about Virtualbox support. So its good to use always a LTS linux version with stable and maintained kernel or roll back if something happens.

I chose VB coz its open source  and not hunger of resources.

[kalihunter]

May i add one more question about Bisq?

Is there any kind of fraud/scamms purchasing or trading on Bisq? I mean if i choose offers from seller and will make fiat or money transfers what makes guarantee that he will transfers amount of purchased BTC?

what makes guarantee my transferred money will not lost and i will give me my purchased btc?

[dkbit98]

Is there any kind of fraud/scamms purchasing or trading on Bisq? I mean if i choose offers from seller and will make fiat or money transfers what makes guarantee that he will transfers amount of purchased BTC?

You can get scammed by third party in some cases, for example if you arrange face to face meeting in some dark corner, you can get robbed and attacked.
Other way to get scammed is if you accept some payment methods that are not supported in Bisq because of chargebacks, like Paypal and credit cards for example.

what makes guarantee my transferred money will not lost and i will give me my purchased btc?

Bitcoin you trade in Bisq exchange is secured with 2-of-2 multisig, and both traders are required to pay security deposits that are later refunded after trade was completed.
I think this enough to make trade secure but you can always open disputes if something goes wrong.
For more question on Bisq exchange, better ask their community for support.

[Pmalek]

It is also worth knowing that centralized exchanges like Binance do not guarantee safety and return of the money you are keeping with them. They will always give you all kinds of fake assurances but in reality they can choose to not pay you in case they were hacked and lost your money. You had also agreed to thtose terms when you signed up!

When we are talking about Binance, the past hacking incidents have proven that this exchange is the best place where you can get hacked. It seems very weird saying that without further explanation. When Cryptopia was hacked, that was it, they were done. Binance was hacked a few years ago and their customers lost over 7.000 BTC, worth $40 million at the time. Those losses were refunded to the affected users and Binance is still going strong and belongs to the top #3 CEXes in the world.   

[pooya87]

When we are talking about Binance, the past hacking incidents have proven that this exchange is the best place where you can get hacked. It seems very weird saying that without further explanation. When Cryptopia was hacked, that was it, they were done. Binance was hacked a few years ago and their customers lost over 7.000 BTC, worth $40 million at the time. Those losses were refunded to the affected users and Binance is still going strong and belongs to the top #3 CEXes in the world.   

That's true but the problem is that you can never predict the future what is happening in their business. For example mtgox wasn't #3 CEX, it was #1 and didn't have silly 10%-20% of total daily trading volume it had more than 85% of the total trading volume among all existing CEXes and yet we saw what happened to it in the end.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

Mt. Gox is a very peculiar case and I don't think we will ever find out the entire truth about what happened there. Was it only a hack or was it an exit scam? Was it a combination of both, where we first had a hack and then the owner took advantage of the situation and stole some coins as well? Who knows. But Mt. Gox is a good example that even the best and most popular CEXes can break overnight. CZ is a businessman like any other. He certainly doesn't put his customer's interests above his own, but by refunding millions of dollars worth of BTC, he has placed himself in a position where people will gladly return and use his exchange instead of something else. That doesn't have to mean anything, but still. 

[pooya87]

He certainly doesn't put his customer's interests above his own, but by refunding millions of dollars worth of BTC, he has placed himself in a position where people will gladly return and use his exchange instead of something else. That doesn't have to mean anything, but still. 

You have very good points but Binance could pay its users back because they didn't really leave the exchange behind due to lack of better alternatives and since they weren't still enforcing KYC like they do today. So they could continue making money and paid them back slowly.
This may not be repeated if such hacks happen again, users may leave the exchange behind as it would be another incentive for them to seek an alternative (KYC enforcement being the first, shutting down accounts or blocking deposits for "taint" would be next).

[Pmalek]

You have very good points but Binance could pay its users back because they didn't really leave the exchange behind due to lack of better alternatives and since they weren't still enforcing KYC like they do today. So they could continue making money and paid them back slowly.

Another point worth considering is how much was hacked and stolen in relation to the amount the exchange earned at that time. Even though Binance lost $40 million worth of crypto, they make much more than that and can afford to pay it back from their own pockets. If the stolen sum was something crazy like $400 million worth of BTC, we would maybe have seen a different ending to that story.   

[Amjado711]

In my opinion if you’re planning to do daily transactions better go for hot wallet.