Bitcoin Forum
March 28, 2024, 02:56:32 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Decided to list entire collection.  (Read 247 times)
Kazkaz27 (OP)
Copper Member
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 1


View Profile
April 09, 2022, 09:46:19 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2022, 08:50:25 PM by Kazkaz27
 #1

Sorry for the mix up.
1711637792
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711637792

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711637792
Reply with quote  #2

1711637792
Report to moderator
Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
geophphreigh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1220
Merit: 1047


View Profile
April 10, 2022, 09:02:23 AM
Merited by ChiBitCTy (3), owlcatz (1), Mbitr (1)
 #2

In a positive manner I offer the following objective information & thoughts.
A nice piece indeed.

Note: All of this information is speculation within reason formed from many extensive hours of research.
. . .
This took me some time & is a working process.
This did not take me very long at all.

Most of them belong to just one person, who, relatively recently, had sold 1 for 14 Bitcoins! Cementing a bottom floor price for such a coin.
You fail to mention that the one person is Charlie Lee, who alone commands a premium on items he sells, not just some random Joe slinging gold eagles. Charlie sold his in March 2017 for 14BTC when BTC was about $1200 Thread. 1200*14 = $16,800.

But actually the most recent public sale for the 1000 gold Casascius coin was a graded MS66 sold by Jackbauerscsg in Sept 2020 (which he bought from Charlie) for 2.0BTC when BTC was around 11,000 Thread. 2*11,000 = $22,000. So the floor was not really "cemented" at 14BTC.


The original physical Bitcoin maker, Mike Caldwell, produced 5 gold Casascius coins loaded with 1000 Bitcoins. Each weighed 1 oz. It is said that 3 of the coins have been redeemed. Only 2 are left that still contain the 1000 Bitcoins.
I found 3 are active
Casascius Analyzer

_______________________________________________________________________________ __________

The coin you are offering was originally sold direct from Denarium in Sept 2018 to BitcoinNewsMagazine for 0.128BTC when BTC was about $7,200 Thread. 0.128*7,200 = $921

#4/100 sold in the same auction to comit for 0.123 and was considered for sale at 0.04BTCrecently, not sure actual sale price if sold. Thread.

I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but it seems you are trying to increase the value of your coin by piggybacking off the value of the 1000BTC Casascius coin which seems disingenuous.

1 of which I am selling for 1 bitcoin.
You can list it for whatever you want, but I fail to see how the value of your coin has gone from 0.128BTC ($900) to 1.0BTC ($42,000) from 2018-now? I am not trying to suggest your item is not valuable, but it is certainly not on par with Casascius coins, and even those did not appreciate that much from 2017 to 2020 as listed above.

Not to convince anyone but there is 21 million bitcoins to be minted. There is only 1 2018 1/2 OZ .999 GOLD DENARIUM BITCOIN #2/100 Physical Bitcoin!
Rarity is not the only factor that determines value. I have many items that are numbered, less than 100 made, produced by more trustworthy makers than a Denarium coin, and I would not expect to get such a high price simply because if have a 1/100 item.

Therefore, is is my belief that Denarium takes 2nd place in the top 3 of physical Bitcoin Producers.
You are free to believe what you wish, but agree to disagree.

_______________________________________________________________________________ __________

I wish you luck with your sale as others have, but please do realize that the people here on this forum are well established in this very niche area. Most here are willing to help, but it also is nice if you help yourself by looking here for information not just google, eBay sales, and Jamie Redman articles. Many collectors on this forum have been around a LONG time and understand what holds value. You simply may not get the premium you want here on this forum. Other outlets have sold BTC items for much higher premiums, but don't expect to get that same premium here.

I don't want to purchase this item from you but would be willing to trade it. Check out my [WTT] and see if you are interested.
[WTT] 0.01 Microsoul & BTCC 5K chip
 
Geophphreigh

Kazkaz27 (OP)
Copper Member
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 1


View Profile
April 10, 2022, 09:04:25 PM
Last edit: April 10, 2022, 11:16:13 PM by Kazkaz27
 #3

In a positive manner I offer the following objective information & thoughts.
A nice piece indeed.

Note: All of this information is speculation within reason formed from many extensive hours of research.
. . .
This took me some time & is a working process.
This did not take me very long at all.

Thank you for all of the information you provided. I will adjust my post to accommodate the issues that arise with it.
That is why this is a working progress & the reason it will continue to consume my time. It is a relief that you didn't have to spent much time on your response. Otherwise, I may not have gotten such a wonderful & enlightening response.

 
Most of them belong to just one person, who, relatively recently, had sold 1 for 14 Bitcoins! Cementing a bottom floor price for such a coin.
You fail to mention that the one person is Charlie Lee, who alone commands a premium on items he sells, not just some random Joe slinging gold eagles. Charlie sold his in March 2017 for 14BTC when BTC was about $1200 Thread. 1200*14 = $16,800.

But actually the most recent public sale for the 1000 gold Casascius coin was a graded MS66 sold by Jackbauerscsg in Sept 2020 (which he bought from Charlie) for 2.0BTC when BTC was around 11,000 Thread. 2*11,000 = $22,000. So the floor was not really "cemented" at 14BTC.

The original physical Bitcoin maker, Mike Caldwell, produced 5 gold Casascius coins loaded with 1000 Bitcoins. Each weighed 1 oz. It is said that 3 of the coins have been redeemed. Only 2 are left that still contain the 1000 Bitcoins.
I found 3 are active
Casascius Analyzer

I see your reasoning behind your statements. I will add the information you provided to my post in order to clarify my work. There is so much information on this subject that things can get boggled up. I appreciate you sharing your findings & proving your work. That is my intention with this post. I want the accurate history behind these coins & to get it correct in order to justify & defend why I believe that, not just, my coin, all gold physical bitcoins are worth more than what the market demanded a year ago, currently & into the future. I will be better at providing the evidence necessary to justify why I think these products should be fetching more $/BTC. I was wrong to say "cemented". There really is no such thing in this market. Especially, collectables. That will be re-stated & Those public sales will be included. Along with the change, 2 gold 1000 Casascius coins left into 3.

_______________________________________________________________________________ __________

The coin you are offering was originally sold direct from Denarium in Sept 2018 to BitcoinNewsMagazine for 0.128BTC when BTC was about $7,200 Thread. 0.128*7,200 = $921

#4/100 sold in the same auction to comit for 0.123 and was considered for sale at 0.04BTCrecently, not sure actual sale price if sold. Thread.

I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but it seems you are trying to increase the value of your coin by piggybacking off the value of the 1000BTC Casascius coin which seems disingenuous.

1 of which I am selling for 1 bitcoin.
You can list it for whatever you want, but I fail to see how the value of your coin has gone from 0.128BTC ($900) to 1.0BTC ($42,000) from 2018-now? I am not trying to suggest your item is not valuable, but it is certainly not on par with Casascius coins, and even those did not appreciate that much from 2017 to 2020 as listed above.

Not to convince anyone but there is 21 million bitcoins to be minted. There is only 1 2018 1/2 OZ .999 GOLD DENARIUM BITCOIN #2/100 Physical Bitcoin!
Rarity is not the only factor that determines value. I have many items that are numbered, less than 100 made, produced by more trustworthy makers than a Denarium coin, and I would not expect to get such a high price simply because if have a 1/100 item.

Therefore, is is my belief that Denarium takes 2nd place in the top 3 of physical Bitcoin Producers.
You are free to believe what you wish, but agree to disagree.

You have many good points here. According to the reasoning you provided I see why you see the price of these coins are dropping in terms of BTC but not $. That does seem to be the case in your example. I will be providing examples of the opposite. Many examples exist but providing them requires a lot of digging and some calculations. Here is one. This example is of a 2015 DENARIUM BITCOIN Gold Plated coin. these coins originally sold for a little over $15 throughout 2015-till Denarium close, 20th July 2020 . Throughout that time bitcoin had many highs and lows. The highest be in 2017 when it peaked at close to 20k. So lets say even at its highest this coin originally sold for .003750 Bitcoin. It just sold in 27 Nov 2021 for $1000. Bitcoins price was in the $54,000–$55,000 range. Meaning the buyer paid equivalent to .018519 bitcoin for it. If you bought that coin today for $1000 dollars on ebay that would be equivalent to .023143 bitcoin. That is what they are selling for! That should be saying something. I gave the bare minimum increase in rate for that coin in which is far less rare of a coin in comparison to any solid gold physical bitcoin. This bare minimum rate should be respected.

I am certainly not "trying to increase the value of my coin by piggybacking off the value of the 1000BTC Casascius coin" & I do not want to come off in anyway disingenuous.

According to my example if I use the same bare minimum rate my coin should be worth at least 5x the original amount paid in bitcoin. Which would be approximately .5 bitcoin. Again this is the bare Minimum rate. The average rate would be at least double that 10x-15x. The high end rate is even more. Upwards of 40x-50x. Laughable.

As you can see I am getting this rate off of a coin that wasn't rare so the rarity is only a bonus in this case. Anyone can disagree with my price, but my analysis isn't wrong. That is how I came up with my price for my coin. I was not trying to take from or piggy back off of Casascius or any other brand. I also do not believe Denarium is par with Casascius. I believe it is 2nd to Casascius. They are different and so is there change in rates. I see these coins as undervalued. We can agree to disagree. I still hold that the gold products are extremally rare and demand an enormous premium. More so than the common coins which are currently catching premiums 5x the amount originally paid in bitcoin.


_______________________________________________________________________________ __________

I wish you luck with your sale as others have, but please do realize that the people here on this forum are well established in this very niche area. Most here are willing to help, but it also is nice if you help yourself by looking here for information not just google, eBay sales, and Jamie Redman articles. Many collectors on this forum have been around a LONG time and understand what holds value. You simply may not get the premium you want here on this forum. Other outlets have sold BTC items for much higher premiums, but don't expect to get that same premium here.

Thank you for you words. I do appreciate them. I may not be established here but I've been around for a while. longer than you may assume. This is my niche as well, I wish I established myself here earlier. It is my belief that history repeats. The first Bitcoin to hit 1 million dollars was a physical bitcoin holding bitcoin. These coins are historic. they will surprise us again.

I don't want to purchase this item from you but would be willing to trade it. Check out my [WTT] and see if you are interested.
[WTT] 0.01 Microsoul & BTCC 5K chip
 
Thank you for your offer, but I must decline.

Geophphreigh



-Kazkaz27
geophphreigh
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1220
Merit: 1047


View Profile
April 10, 2022, 11:37:15 PM
Merited by 2stout (1)
 #4

Look. I am not trying to cause problems. I honestly do hope this sells for as much as possible. It would indicate that the collectibles market is maturing and people do see the value in these rare and historic items.

The frustration is when people show up guns blazing trying to sell items for what they FEEL it is worth, not what the current market says it is worth. I appreciate all your analysis, but as I tried to point out the value of an item is complex and not as simple as 10x what some other Denarium coin sold for.  I am sure we could go back and forth with examples of items that have both gained and lost value in both BTC and USD. The age old argument of items increasing in BTC value vs. USD value is a dead horse and it doesn't need to be beaten again here.

Again, not trying to bust anyone's chops, just trying to understand a little better why you value your coin the way you do given the historical prices of the coin you discussed.  If you really want to know the true market value a public auction with start price of 0BTC and no reserve will accomplish this.

I am glad you are here, this is really a great place for Bitcoin Collectors to be and I hope that you do spend more time here, it is a really great place to share, learn, and collect.

Geo
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!