[GUIDE] How to send BTC for cheap! (And stop paying $25 for withdrawals)

[tbct_mt2]

Mainly everything that centralized exchanges like Binance do is to make money. The fact that they advertise shitcoins as "cheaper options to withdraw bitcoin" is because they want to advertise their own shitcoin called BNB. In fact there are a lot of things they encourage people to do using BNB which is the only reason this shitcoin has been pumped. Who makes the most profit when it pumps? Obviously Binance since they create it out of thin air and sell it to newbies.

People who invest in or use BNB or other altcoins can not say they do it because of Binance or any exchange. They are responsible for their reasons of investment or choosing a coin for their transaction.

After Binance, many exchanges create their own tokens and own chains. They follow Binance by shilling their own token and chain and provide promotion with good bonus for users who use their tokens for trading fee or withdrawal. People decide to use or not. If they decide to use exchange token and chain, they should not say it's because of exchange promotion even they don't like those tokens or chains. If they want to take bonus, they will have to take risk.

Altcoin chains are less secured than Bitcoin network.

[franky1]

this guide is impractical and full of utopian dream
for these reasons

a. 'withdrawing' means your taking out of an exchange meaning you got no control of their fee structure.

b. if the guide meant spending from own wallet. well then you come into the problems of not everyone only has one UTXO to spend. many have many UTXO's they need to combine when spending.

c. also trying to suggest people shouldnt just buy what they want when they want it. but to wait patiently for weeks or months for a low mempool day, totally negates the purpose of the utility of a currency..

d. the change of any minority of the community paying less. just then fills in the crowd of those already paying less. thus causing those paying less to have to pay more to compete at their bottom level.

EG a train could have 2 carriages. one for first class and one for second class.. by telling everyone to get off the first class carriage and try squeezing into the second class carriage. does not keeo the second class carriage running cheaply. instead the fight over seats makes people end up paying more for the privilege of seating in the second class carriage or waiting even longer. thus average train fee's rise

e. the end result is although when seeing the fees go from $2->$0.50
$2.00/\       /\
$1.50   \    /
$1.00    \  /
$0.50     \/
and choosing to wait for that 'bottom' . if everyone done this guess what the end result of the next fee correction
          $2.50 /\
$2.00/\       /
$1.50   \    /
$1.00    \_/
$0.50    
yep. the bottom moves up because more are then competing at those times. thus the usual rise in competition then raises the overall price of the competition window

an easier solution is this..
stop letting the devs put cludgy code into bitcoin that causes a 4x of tx fee's, stop the devs from removal of old fee formulae, then insist the devs put in cleaner stuff that actually helps make bitcoin more useful day to day(on the bitcoin network), without all the stupid politics of making bitcoin far more worse to use daily just to promote other networks as things people should use instead

[Charles-Tim]

People who invest in or use BNB or other altcoins can not say they do it because of Binance or any exchange. They are responsible for their reasons of investment or choosing a coin for their transaction.

I do not go much further into knowing about the Binance Chain (BEP2) and most especially the Binance Smart Chain (BEP20). About using ERC20 network, it means you are sending the coin (which people thought is bitcoin but not, it is ERC20 token on ethereum blockchain) on ethereum network. On noncustododial wallet, such coins like renBTC and wBTC are example. They are not bitcoin, though the more people invest in it, the more the increase in bitcoin price, but because it is a token on ethereum blockchain, just like other tokens also, the more you invest on ERC20 tokens like renBTC, wBTC and others like DeFi tokens on ethereum blockchain, the more the price of ethereum is increasing. Also about BEP2 which is Binance chain and BEP20 which is Binance Smart Chain, all these chains are also used to make sure that as people are buying such tokens, the main chain coin which is BNB will be increasing in price. So as people are investigating on the tokens, the more the price of the main chain coin of the network is increasing. So, pooya87 is very right about this.

b. if the guide meant spending from own wallet. well then you come into the problems of not everyone only has one UTXO to spend. many have many UTXO's they need to combine when spending.

The transaction weight will increase but that is the reason why it is advisable to consolidate small inputs but while coin control can still be used to manually select inputs (do not get me wrong, I mean the UTXO) you want to use to make a transaction.

then insist the devs put in cleaner stuff that actually helps make bitcoin more useful day to day(on the bitcoin network), without all the stupid politics of making bitcoin far more worse to use daily just to promote other networks as things people should use instead

If you think you can not pay bitcoin transaction fee (which is low imo), then you can use the layer 2 solution which is lightning network. The mempool has been congested for over a year now, and if congested, there would be difficult adjustment on every 2016 blocks. Congested mempool also will still later become not congested again

[franky1]

then insist the devs put in cleaner stuff that actually helps make bitcoin more useful day to day(on the bitcoin network), without all the stupid politics of making bitcoin far more worse to use daily just to promote other networks as things people should use instead

If you think you can not pay bitcoin transaction fee (which is low imo), then you can use the layer 2 solution which is lightning network. The mempool has been congested for over a year now, and if congested, there would be difficult adjustment on every 2016 blocks. Congested mempool also will still later become not congested again

i am in britain.. our minimum wage does deem bitcoin fee's to be reasonable. but i am not talking about the 900million combined population of the 'elitist' countries of uk, us, europe.  the idea of bitcoin was a payment network for the unbanked. the 3 BILLION population whereby the average fee(currently over $1) is a days wage.

you are also forgetting that those that see bitcoin fee's as a problem. are also going to run into that problem buying bitcoin.. and then locking up bitcoin to then go play with silly msat balance on LN.
meaning most will just avoid bitcoin in the first place and use another altcoin like litecoin as their venture into crypto and then to play around on LN

i know i know, you and your fellow altnet supporting crusaders see no problem in pretending LN is bitcoin(when its not) but happily accept anyone that wants to exit bitcoin to play with LN and then be locked in forever untill their balance is zero. or until they atomic swap to another altcoin as their method of exiting LN.
yes i know the business model. yes its boring and unoriginal yes its a bait and switch.
but again you and your crusaders of altnet adoration brigade keep forgetting one thing..
this topic is about solutions to BITCOIN FEE's not work arounds to avoid using bitcoin as much.at all by presenting other networks or telling people to just stop using bitcoin for daily use.. as those stall/delay/avoidance tactics are not solutions to help bitcoin. they are business bait and switch plans to help other networks adoption rates

[buwaytress]

Good on you OP! Also, remember that even if mempool gets a little full and the recommended fee for next block ups to 2 or 3 sats, or even higher, you shouldn't need to worry too long about your 1 sat/byte tx.

Even last week at 8 sats recommended, I went ahead within fee. Took some hours but everything cleared in half a day. Obviously if you need urgent shit rbf saves yr ass but really, if you move around or consolidate especially, wouldn't worry too much about min fee.

[Haunebu]

Great post op. Honestly, the best way to avoid paying high fees for BTC withdrawals is by ignoring the recommended fees in any wallet, site etc because they are almost always inaccurate.

I usually check sites like Bitcoinfees.net which is one of my favorite sites for BTC fees basically. These fees are usually a lot lower when compared to the recommended fees.

[LoyceV]

i am in britain.. our minimum wage does deem bitcoin fee's to be reasonable. but i am not talking about the 900million combined population of the 'elitist' countries of uk, us, europe.  the idea of bitcoin was a payment network for the unbanked. the 3 BILLION population whereby the average fee(currently over $1) is a days wage.

It seems like this is going towards a scaling discussion. First, the average fee in the last year could have been much lower than $1 per transaction. I'm not sure how you got that $1 value, and although I wouldn't be surprised that for instance large exchanges raise the average, it wasn't necessary. In the past year, I paid less than $0.10 per transaction on average.
One way or another, 3 billion people making on-chain transactions will lead to a huge amount of data, and I don't think I'd still have my own full client if that would happen.

you are also forgetting that those that see bitcoin fee's as a problem. are also going to run into that problem buying bitcoin.. and then locking up bitcoin to then go play with silly msat balance on LN.
meaning most will just avoid bitcoin in the first place and use another altcoin like litecoin as their venture into crypto and then to play around on LN

Litecoin may have low fees, but they'll have the same problem if their blockchain gets too large. Luckily, they have a 1 MB block limit at 2.5 minutes per block, so fees will just rise if the number of transactions goes up.

i know i know, you and your fellow altnet supporting crusaders see no problem in pretending LN is bitcoin

Hey, I made a topic for this: Is LN Bitcoin? franky1: About scaling, on-chain and off-chain

this topic is about solutions to BITCOIN FEE's

And 111 sat is enough to make a transaction (one input, one output).

[Charles-Tim]

the idea of bitcoin was a payment network for the unbanked. the 3 BILLION population whereby the average fee(currently over $1) is a days wage.

Bitcoin is not only about the unbank, it is peer-to-peer means of payment without third party. Remember that people use it for investment as well, the key reason for it adoption.

You are still getting this wrong, 1 sat/vbyte transactions are getting confirmed early this time around, but the daily avarage fee today is $1.682 currently while I can use just less than $0.1 to make 1 input and 2 output transaction get confirmed very soon. People are using a kind of wallet that do not set the fee accurately for them and some people just want to pay slightly above other people so that miners can first include their transactions into block. The daily avarage fee is the reality but not correctly dipicting how bitcoin fee is lower than worth people are paying.

you are also forgetting that those that see bitcoin fee's as a problem. are also going to run into that problem buying bitcoin.. and then locking up bitcoin to then go play with silly msat balance on LN.

Which problem are you talking about regarding bitcoin transaction fee? Only exchanges that chargesi extra than normal is the problem.

i know i know, you and your fellow altnet supporting crusaders see no problem in pretending LN is bitcoin

Explain how lightning network is altnet. You are absolutely wrong.

[LoyceV]

i know i know, you and your fellow altnet supporting crusaders see no problem in pretending LN is bitcoin

Explain how lightning network is altnet. You are absolutely wrong.

Let's not make this topic about franky1's interpretation of Bitcoin and LN. Use Is LN Bitcoin? franky1: About scaling, on-chain and off-chain for that.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Altcoin chains are less secured than Bitcoin network.

Yes, but the Binance chain is a lot more worse than just an altcoin. Everything's controlled by Binance. They can censor, reverse transactions, increase the supply whenever they want, forbid from certain Binance users to acquiring tokens etc. That being said it's kinda ironic to promote "chain validation" and "blockchain technology" from a so centralized situation; it's a conspiracy to the technology.

Explain how lightning network is altnet. You are absolutely wrong.

Let's not make this topic about franky1's interpretation of Bitcoin and LN. Use Is LN Bitcoin? franky1: About scaling, on-chain and off-chain for that.

Too late. Charles just opened a can of worms. 

[Bitcoin.PN]

this guide is impractical and full of utopian dream
for these reasons

a. 'withdrawing' means your taking out of an exchange meaning you got no control of their fee structure.

Yeah, the thread is to advocate for people to use their own wallets and stop overpaying stupid fees from exchanges

b. if the guide meant spending from own wallet. well then you come into the problems of not everyone only has one UTXO to spend. many have many UTXO's they need to combine when spending.

Doesn't matter, the point of this guide is to pay the LEAST to get on the NEXT block. For sure, you can set your tx to 1sat/vbyte and wait days/weeks, but if you want to get on the next block asap, this guide is what you are looking for

c. also trying to suggest people shouldnt just buy what they want when they want it. but to wait patiently for weeks or months for a low mempool day, totally negates the purpose of the utility of a currency..

I didn't say that. I just said how to pay the least to get your tx in the next block.

d. the change of any minority of the community paying less. just then fills in the crowd of those already paying less. thus causing those paying less to have to pay more to compete at their bottom level.

EG a train could have 2 carriages. one for first class and one for second class.. by telling everyone to get off the first class carriage and try squeezing into the second class carriage. does not keeo the second class carriage running cheaply. instead the fight over seats makes people end up paying more for the privilege of seating in the second class carriage or waiting even longer. thus average train fee's rise

You are misunderstanding. This guide is to pay the least to get in that "first class carriage". I'm not saying to just pay 1 sat/vbyte and be done with it. I'm just saying to look at the mempool to see how much you need to barely get the tx on the NEXT block.

e. the end result is although when seeing the fees go from $2->$0.50
$2.00/\       /\
$1.50   \    /
$1.00    \  /
$0.50     \/
and choosing to wait for that 'bottom' . if everyone done this guess what the end result of the next fee correction
          $2.50 /\
$2.00/\       /
$1.50   \    /
$1.00    \_/
$0.50    
yep. the bottom moves up because more are then competing at those times. thus the usual rise in competition then raises the overall price of the competition window

I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying to wait until 1sat/vbyte gets you on the next block. I'm saying to look at mempool to see what's the minimum to get you on the next block.

For example, take a look at the mempool right now:



As you can see, right now even 1sat/vbyte can get you on the next block. And you can see there are A TON of transactions that are OVERPAYING anywhere from 3 sats/vbyte up to 251 sats/vbyte which is INSANE!!

My guide is about how much one would need to pay to get BARELY on the NEXT mined block. And in this case, right now 1sat/vbyte will get you on the next block!

The goal of this guide is that people stop paying 3sats/vbyte or 251 sats/vbyte per transaction!

Look at the pic above and see teh distribution of fees! People are overpaying 3sats/vbyte up to 251 sats/vbyte!

Now, let's take a few minutes later and the mempool got clogged a little bit and now it looks like:



So, let's say that your tx you set it at 1sat/vbyte, but it didn't confirm and the mempool got a little bit clogged, so what you now see is that you would need to bump the fee to around 1.8sats/vbyte or even 2sats/vbyte with the rbf feature and that will get you in the next block.

Sure, you can also leave the tx at 1sat/vbyte but that will probably take a little more time due to the mempool size increasing.

an easier solution is this..
stop letting the devs put cludgy code into bitcoin that causes a 4x of tx fee's, stop the devs from removal of old fee formulae, then insist the devs put in cleaner stuff that actually helps make bitcoin more useful day to day(on the bitcoin network), without all the stupid politics of making bitcoin far more worse to use daily just to promote other networks as things people should use instead

Yeah, that's the best solution. I agree.