Russian Gas ban - A problem for Europe or suicide for Russia?

[paxmao]

In short Indians are suffering as a result of proxy war between US and Iran. Electricity bills are going up everywhere are yours is not an isolated scenario. Fortunately, here in India we didn't closed down all of our coal and nuclear powerplants as demanded by loonies such as Greta Thunberg.

Can't say how much India is suffering but Pakistan is suffering alot even though its sitting very next to world largest oil and gas reserve country. Buying expensive LNG from Qatar instead of cheap Iran gas, producing expensive electricity from furnace oil but not willing to buy cheap Iran Electricity. All this is because of USA sanctions on Iran and also forcing other countries not to trade with Iran.
Now Europe is facing energy crisis and they must thank USA for that. Just like we are suffering.

US politics are usually terrible for other countries. Their national interest is always put before anything and more worrying - before anyone. They do have a long tradition of not caring at all for anything other that the electoral results. In the case of Iran sanctions, it must be noted that Iran is trying to arm themselves with atomic bombs. No wonder they are sanctioned.

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[Sithara007]

US politics are usually terrible for other countries. Their national interest is always put before anything and more worrying - before anyone. They do have a long tradition of not caring at all for anything other that the electoral results. In the case of Iran sanctions, it must be noted that Iran is trying to arm themselves with atomic bombs. No wonder they are sanctioned.

As yourself why Iran or North Korea is not invaded yet. What makes them different, when compared to Libya, Afghanistan or Iraq. These two countries are rumored to have nuclear weapons and the ICBMs that can deliver the nukes. Americans are bullies and they showoff their power only against weak countries. A war against either Iran or North Korea can completely destroy the American economy on top of hundreds of thousands of American casualties. The US became a superpower after the WW2, because they stayed out of the conflict until the last phase. And this time, China will replace the US as the superpower, as US gets increasingly involved in global conflicts.

[pooya87]

it must be noted that Iran is trying to arm themselves with atomic bombs. No wonder they are sanctioned.

In other words the countries with the biggest arsenal of all kinds of Weapons of Mass Destruction (one of which is nuclear) have sanctioned a country that might want to build nuclear weapons but so far there has not been a single evidence of it.
Hypocrisy?

FYI the beef they have with Iran has nothing to do with nukes, it is all about fossil fuels (oil+gas) that Iran has the most of in the world. In the media they can't tell you that "Iran has the most sophisticated defenses that we want to force them to give up under JCPOA disguise so we can eventually invade and steal all those fuels" because you won't find it appealing. But if they tell you that "Iran is building nukes" then you feel threatened. So they do that instead.
BTW they did exactly the same with Iraq. They first told you Iraq has WMDs but under the hood they were forcing them to give up their defensive capabilities. It took about 10 years of sanctions and disarming and attacks to weaken Iraq enough to start the invasion with the help of dozens of countries!!!

[Ozero]

Nothing will work out between Pakistan and India - the so called terrorist or the freedom fighter would not let that happen.
Pakistan and India are never a peace with each other.
and the history will stay the same for every!

Never is too long by historical standards. Practice shows that it is possible to both make friends and quarrel any two countries within 30 years (in a generation and a half).

Russians have survived the whole world sanctions - they have won the war against Ukraine and they have survived the sanctions - emerged as a strong nation - what else you want to listen about Russia?

It is too early to tell who will be victorious in this confrontation. I would still prefer not to call it war. Each side seeks to save its allies, since the two sides of the conflict are not mainly affected in what looks like a proxy war, even though Russia is in direct confrontation.

Putin did not call the open military invasion of Ukraine by the forces of his eight armies, which formed the backbone and elite of the Russian armed forces, directly and openly a war. He expected to occupy in a few days, if not all of Ukraine, then most of it, except for the western regions, which he promised to give to Hungary. He also hoped that the leading states would not have time to respond to military aggression in Ukraine and therefore called the war unleashed by him a "special operation." However, no matter how he called the invasion of his army into a neighboring country with the aim of capturing it, it was always called a war.

Now active battles in Ukraine are going on at the front with a duration of 1300 kilometers, Russia has already lost over a hundred thousand of its military, killed and wounded in this war, 2199 tanks, 4690 armored vehicles, 250 aircraft, 216 helicopters, 1302 artillery systems, 312 rocket launchers, 168 air defense systems, 3550 auxiliary automotive equipment, etc.
On the fronts, there is already a clear preponderance of Ukraine. In September alone, during offensive operations in the Kharkiv direction, the Ukrainian Armed Forces captured 49 Russian tanks, 134 armored vehicles and a large number of other military equipment, when the Russians fled in a hurry until they reached their border. By the way, the same Hungary is armed with only 46 tanks.
In the Kherson region, a large and most combat-ready group of Russians, numbering up to 20 thousand people, is surrounded and pressed against the Dnieper River, which is methodically destroyed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, since this group is completely under their fire control. The Russians can only either surrender, which they are already doing, or try to cross the wide Dnieper on their own using improvised means. Someone may consider this a victory for Russia, but the facts are stubborn things.

[Sithara007]

it must be noted that Iran is trying to arm themselves with atomic bombs. No wonder they are sanctioned.

In other words the countries with the biggest arsenal of all kinds of Weapons of Mass Destruction (one of which is nuclear) have sanctioned a country that might want to build nuclear weapons but so far there has not been a single evidence of it.
Hypocrisy?

FYI the beef they have with Iran has nothing to do with nukes, it is all about fossil fuels (oil+gas) that Iran has the most of in the world. In the media they can't tell you that "Iran has the most sophisticated defenses that we want to force them to give up under JCPOA disguise so we can eventually invade and steal all those fuels" because you won't find it appealing. But if they tell you that "Iran is building nukes" then you feel threatened. So they do that instead.
BTW they did exactly the same with Iraq. They first told you Iraq has WMDs but under the hood they were forcing them to give up their defensive capabilities. It took about 10 years of sanctions and disarming and attacks to weaken Iraq enough to start the invasion with the help of dozens of countries!!!

The United States is not just the country with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. They also happens to be the only country on earth who have used nuclear weapons against civilians. None of the other countries, including the former USSR and North Korea have used nuclear weapons on civilians, despite having the capability to do so. And I still remember the sanctions and embargoes imposed by these hypocrites in 1998, when India tested nuclear weapons. And they invaded Iraq claiming that the latter was trying to develop nukes.

[|MINER|]

Russians have survived the whole world sanctions - they have won the war against Ukraine and they have survived the sanctions - emerged as a strong nation - what else you want to listen about Russia?

Yes, it is true that without Russian oil and gas half of the world is immobilized. It is also true that the value of the dollar and the euro has fallen against the ruble, but it is still not possible to say how far the impact of the sanctions will go in this short period of time.  But I think that at some point, if Russia's other allies are no longer there, then I think that Russia will not be able to survive.

The answer is already in your words and that is " without russian gas and oil half of the world will immobilized". In my opinion it is having a negative impact not only for half the world but indirectly for the whole world.  If you look at the economic collapse of many countries because of this Russian oil and gas embargo. I don't think Rasia shouldn't any worry for those sanction  , it for those who are giving sanction. Already some top countries are in bad condition for this , And there are also rumors that they are secretly buying this gass from Russia in rubles and that is why the price of the ruble is increasing against the dollar and the euro.

[Sithara007]

Today while I was watching Russian PM with other PMs in conference.
He looked confident - and there was no guilt on his face and people around him were giving him respect and honor . . from nowhere it appeared that has has made any mistake by attacking Ukraine.

Mistake was made in Karabakh and not in Ukraine. Taking advantage of the conflict in Ukraine, Turkey opened new fronts in both Syria and Karabakh and a third one is possible in Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan border.

And so far it has been the other countries who are facing most of the consequences. Electricity prices has gone up by 5-10 times in Europe. And all around the world ordinary people are reeling from high prices to gasoline, diesel, LPG, CNG, potash and ammonia fertilizer, wheat, coal, sunflower oil.etc. And the consequences are being felt more in countries such as India and Pakistan.

[Ozero]

Today while I was watching Russian PM with other PMs in conference.
He looked confident - and there was no guilt on his face and people around him were giving him respect and honor . . from nowhere it appeared that has has made any mistake by attacking Ukraine.

Mistake was made in Karabakh and not in Ukraine. Taking advantage of the conflict in Ukraine, Turkey opened new fronts in both Syria and Karabakh and a third one is possible in Tajikistan-Kyrgyzstan border.

And so far it has been the other countries who are facing most of the consequences. Electricity prices has gone up by 5-10 times in Europe. And all around the world ordinary people are reeling from high prices to gasoline, diesel, LPG, CNG, potash and ammonia fertilizer, wheat, coal, sunflower oil.etc. And the consequences are being felt more in countries such as India and Pakistan.

Russia's loss of its influence in the countries of Central Asia is precisely the direct result of the military defeat in Ukraine. Putin was forced to send additional military forces and equipment to Ukraine in Ukraine, significantly weakening the military presence in all his other regions, and also began to withdraw military equipment and his military from Syria, mobilizing everyone for war with Ukraine. Therefore, Russia has already been forced to refuse the request of the Armenian government for military assistance after the military conflict with Azerbaijan. Thus, Russia's influence on these states begins to weaken. Feeling this, Kazakhstan began to pursue a more independent policy and free itself from the influence of Russia. And this is just the beginning.

Already about ten nationalities of Russia, and above all Chechnya and Dagestan, are preparing to continue the struggle for their independence. Until then, the Russian Federation kept them in its composition only on the basis of fear of coercion and force of arms. The defeat of Russia in Ukraine dramatically changes the balance of power and the actual colonies of Russia will secede from the Russian Federation and proclaim their independence. The complete disintegration of the Russian Federation is brewing, and given the fact that its European part of the Russian Federation has practically no natural resources, including oil and gas, the situation in the near future of Russia will be very interesting.

[WatChe]

The United States is not just the country with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. They also happens to be the only country on earth who have used nuclear weapons against civilians. None of the other countries, including the former USSR and North Korea have used nuclear weapons on civilians, despite having the capability to do so. And I still remember the sanctions and embargoes imposed by these hypocrites in 1998, when India tested nuclear weapons. And they invaded Iraq claiming that the latter was trying to develop nukes.

We live in world where might is right i.e. Big powers are free to do whatever they want. Nobody questioning Isreal nuclear program nor anyone has any objection on nuclear program of usa, UK and France.
Pakistan and India both are doing harm to themselves by buying expensive weapons from West and using against each other. India test first nuclear weapon in 1974 and just to check whether Pakistan has nuclear weapons they tested once again in 1998. If both Pakistan and India can resolve there issues and live in peace it will definitely better for 1.5 billion people.
But it will defiantly hurt the weapon market of West.

[coupable]

Nothing will work out between Pakistan and India - the so called terrorist or the freedom fighter would not let that happen.
Pakistan and India are never a peace with each other.
and the history will stay the same for every!

Never is too long by historical standards. Practice shows that it is possible to both make friends and quarrel any two countries within 30 years (in a generation and a half).

Russians have survived the whole world sanctions - they have won the war against Ukraine and they have survived the sanctions - emerged as a strong nation - what else you want to listen about Russia?

It is too early to tell who will be victorious in this confrontation. I would still prefer not to call it war. Each side seeks to save its allies, since the two sides of the conflict are not mainly affected in what looks like a proxy war, even though Russia is in direct confrontation.

Putin did not call the open military invasion of Ukraine by the forces of his eight armies, which formed the backbone and elite of the Russian armed forces, directly and openly a war. He expected to occupy in a few days, if not all of Ukraine, then most of it, except for the western regions, which he promised to give to Hungary. He also hoped that the leading states would not have time to respond to military aggression in Ukraine and therefore called the war unleashed by him a "special operation." However, no matter how he called the invasion of his army into a neighboring country with the aim of capturing it, it was always called a war.

Now active battles in Ukraine are going on at the front with a duration of 1300 kilometers, Russia has already lost over a hundred thousand of its military, killed and wounded in this war, 2199 tanks, 4690 armored vehicles, 250 aircraft, 216 helicopters, 1302 artillery systems, 312 rocket launchers, 168 air defense systems, 3550 auxiliary automotive equipment, etc.
On the fronts, there is already a clear preponderance of Ukraine. In September alone, during offensive operations in the Kharkiv direction, the Ukrainian Armed Forces captured 49 Russian tanks, 134 armored vehicles and a large number of other military equipment, when the Russians fled in a hurry until they reached their border. By the way, the same Hungary is armed with only 46 tanks.
In the Kherson region, a large and most combat-ready group of Russians, numbering up to 20 thousand people, is surrounded and pressed against the Dnieper River, which is methodically destroyed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, since this group is completely under their fire control. The Russians can only either surrender, which they are already doing, or try to cross the wide Dnieper on their own using improvised means. Someone may consider this a victory for Russia, but the facts are stubborn things.

Can you identify the sources of these allegations? Most likely it is all from the Western media and Ukraine. I do not remember that Russia announced losses of this magnitude. Please think wisely before believing such data, unless it is from a neutral source.
Let's take the example of the crisis in Syria that started in March 2011, where cities and buildings are bombed daily indiscriminately, without counting the arrests and executions that take place in the dozens every day in all Syrian regions. All this, and the death toll did not reach 100,000 during six months, let alone confronting an armed army like the Russian army. I mean, if the Russian forces remained in one place without resistance, the number would not reach 100,000 dead in a matter of several months, unless the Ukrainian army possessed a strength that the rest of the world was not able to imagine (almost impossible).
Personally, I am not inclined to believe these exaggerations and consider them part of the propaganda war between the two parties .

[pooya87]

and also began to withdraw military equipment and his military from Syria,

Russia never withdrew from Syria, there were some forces moving around to more strategic positions but they never left. In fact yesterday they launched an attack with the Syrian military against terrorist positions in Idlib.

Therefore, Russia has already been forced to refuse the request of the Armenian government for military assistance after the military conflict with Azerbaijan.

Of course everyone is taking advantage of the recent Russian defeats in Ukraine but it is dumb to talk about military assistance in what was more of a quick clash than a long conflict for any type of military assistance to reach the region.
Not to mention that Russia didn't even need to get involved since Iran's military is already at the borders ready to intervene. The problem is that the Prime Minister of Armenia is not cooperating and not really asking for help, to the point where he said something about giving up the land to the invaders which caused mass protests in the capital against the prime minister.

Recent Pelosi's travel to Armenia is also very suspicious and seems like US is trying to start another war after they failed to start it in Taiwan.

[$anounimus$]

The fact is the fact - war has one advantage, it always accelerates things up. In this war, we don't need to focus on military equipment but on our weak sides, everyone sees how bad military equipment Russia has compared to the western countries. Don't you think that after all the innovations that come from the USA and Europe, can't we significantly lessen the demand on gas and oil if the situation really requires that from us as soon as possible?

Is Russia committing suicide? I don't think so. Realizing that this will result in some kind of serious conflict, Putin cannot quote, "do nothing", which means he has no choice but to act. If you are familiar with this topic, you will see, for example, that Germany is even more dependent on gas and oil than Russia. Thus, the consequences for Germany are much worse than for Russia and it is clear to them that this is not about gas but about something else.

[WatChe]

Pakistan is close not only to Iran, but also to other major gas producing countries (Turkmenistan for example). But any gas pipeline from Central Asia need to run through Afghanistan or Iran, which once again makes that idea unviable. Pakistan shares direct border with Iran, so it would have been an easy choice to get Iranian gas. But again, the Americans will be offended. Qatar obviously is an American ally and therefore it's economic interests need to be taken care of. On top of that, American companies are involved in the Qatari LNG production.

While Pakistan continuous to suffer from energy crisis, as there is shortage of electricity and price is also too high. The government of Pakistan making people fool by such news, Putin says pipeline gas supplies to Pakistan are possible, part of infrastructure in place. There is Gas pipeline completed from Iran till Pakistan border and Pakistan government not completing it because of usa pressure.
If Pakistan can't buy gas from its neighbouring Iran due to USA pressure then how can they buy it from Russia?

[Synchronice]

The United States is not just the country with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. They also happens to be the only country on earth who have used nuclear weapons against civilians. None of the other countries, including the former USSR and North Korea have used nuclear weapons on civilians, despite having the capability to do so. And I still remember the sanctions and embargoes imposed by these hypocrites in 1998, when India tested nuclear weapons. And they invaded Iraq claiming that the latter was trying to develop nukes.

And was that done for worse? You ignore a lot of facts and truly make a conclusion that is purely based on emotions instead of real facts and real threats. And I talk about Japan in this case.
One sure thing is that the USA demonstrated its power by using nuclear weapons in Japan but it was not only done for that purpose.
The emperor was considered a god in Japan. Religious fervor for the God-emperor was an unimaginable motivation and stimulus for Japanese society and soldiers. WW2 was a Holy War for the Japanese people. Japanese were very fanatic and were willing to sacrifice everything to achieve their aim, they were happily willing to sacrifice their own lives without an eye blink, About 3800 Japanese pilots flew suicide attacks for the Empire of Japan. This is not the end, they also thought that Americans were very soft and weak. If the USA dropped nuclear bombs into the sea and didn't harm civilians, do you really think that the Japanese would stop? No, instead, it would amplify their thought that Americans were soft. The real use of nuclear weapons on them showed the Japanese that Americans weren't that soft but definitely, this wasn't the only reason for their surrender. Even one atomic bomb alone was a weak reason for them two stop, even two weren't enough but at the same time, the Soviet invasion and some other factors truly showed the Japanese that they were standing no chance to win the war.
In 1944, 99% of Japan's GDP was a military expenditure. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were important locations for the Japanese military industry.

Also, Japanese people feel friendly toward American right now. Can't say the same about post-soviet countries toward Russians.

[coupable]

The United States is not just the country with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons. They also happens to be the only country on earth who have used nuclear weapons against civilians. None of the other countries, including the former USSR and North Korea have used nuclear weapons on civilians, despite having the capability to do so. And I still remember the sanctions and embargoes imposed by these hypocrites in 1998, when India tested nuclear weapons. And they invaded Iraq claiming that the latter was trying to develop nukes.

And was that done for worse? You ignore a lot of facts and truly make a conclusion that is purely based on emotions instead of real facts and real threats. And I talk about Japan in this case.
One sure thing is that the USA demonstrated its power by using nuclear weapons in Japan but it was not only done for that purpose.
The emperor was considered a god in Japan. Religious fervor for the God-emperor was an unimaginable motivation and stimulus for Japanese society and soldiers. WW2 was a Holy War for the Japanese people. Japanese were very fanatic and were willing to sacrifice everything to achieve their aim, they were happily willing to sacrifice their own lives without an eye blink, About 3800 Japanese pilots flew suicide attacks for the Empire of Japan. This is not the end, they also thought that Americans were very soft and weak. If the USA dropped nuclear bombs into the sea and didn't harm civilians, do you really think that the Japanese would stop? No, instead, it would amplify their thought that Americans were soft. The real use of nuclear weapons on them showed the Japanese that Americans weren't that soft but definitely, this wasn't the only reason for their surrender. Even one atomic bomb alone was a weak reason for them two stop, even two weren't enough but at the same time, the Soviet invasion and some other factors truly showed the Japanese that they were standing no chance to win the war.

Perhaps the nuclear strikes on Japan achieved their goals at that time to stop the war. But did we really need that much horror? If military bases were targeted, for example, this would have seemed more logical, but the bombs targeted cities full of innocent civilians. Personally, I never agree with justifying violence, no matter how noble its aims may seem.
The world did not get rid of violence after using nuclear in this way and the number of nuclear states increased significantly, and wars did not stop. And what America did after that with the Vietnamese, for example, was more terrible than what Japan did during the war .

[Sithara007]

Pakistan has been in great crisis ever since and they would never come out it because their government is corrupt and they don't want to benefit their people.
USA has been misusing the the air space of Pakistan for long and they are killing the soldiers and civilians of Pakistan for years.

It is not one-sided relationship. The Americans are using Pakistani airspace and were using Pakistani territory to transfer military equipment to Afghanistan (before they pulled out of that country). In return, Pakistan received hundreds of millions of USD worth of military aid (at a time when they needed the funds). And if the Americans are helping someone, be assured that the help doesn't come for free. The recipient need to dance as per their whims and fancies. And this is not something unique to Pakistan, but applicable to other US allies as well (including Germany and Japan).

[lucates]

It's a world full of prosperity and diversity; every place is resourceful in one way or another. We can't deny that we depend on each other. Peaceful cooperation and harmony is important than being sarcastic each day. Now there has been a number of chaos in Europe, from heat waves to draught and from travel disruptions to cost-of-living crisis. Whatever the claims and counter-claims, all we know right now for sure is that Europe is now crumbling and scrambling to reduce consumption for one, and looking for alternative sources of energy for another, and there's certainly no denial of the fact that if the Russian gas supplies remain disrupted in the coming months this winter, Russia will have the upper edge again. Whatever it's ultimate sufferers are people in those countries. 

[Moneyprism]

Can't say how much India is suffering but Pakistan is suffering alot even though its sitting very next to world largest oil and gas reserve country. Buying expensive LNG from Qatar instead of cheap Iran gas, producing expensive electricity from furnace oil but not willing to buy cheap Iran Electricity. All this is because of USA sanctions on Iran and also forcing other countries not to trade with Iran.
Now Europe is facing energy crisis and they must thank USA for that. Just like we are suffering.

most developing countries are facing this problem,, especially in Asia,, they are very interested in buying oil from Russia or Iran to be able to suppress oil prices in their countries, but the problem is that America will impose economic sanctions on countries that buy oil from Russia or Iran .. this is a dilemma because America also provides a lot of subsidies to these countries but at the same time the price of oil in their country starts to soar which will cause inflation to get worse

[WatChe]

most developing countries are facing this problem,, especially in Asia,, they are very interested in buying oil from Russia or Iran to be able to suppress oil prices in their countries, but the problem is that America will impose economic sanctions on countries that buy oil from Russia or Iran .. this is a dilemma because America also provides a lot of subsidies to these countries but at the same time the price of oil in their country starts to soar which will cause inflation to get worse

I don't see any extra ordinary subsidiary provided by USA to Pakistan for boycotting Gas supply from Iran. The idea is simple,
just bribe the top officials of the country and then make them do whateved USA want. Pakistan need to make a bold move and buy Oil and gas from Russia and Iran to meet its energy needs. Otherwise it will be too late.

[Sithara007]

I don't see any extra ordinary subsidiary provided by USA to Pakistan for boycotting Gas supply from Iran. The idea is simple,
just bribe the top officials of the country and then make them do whateved USA want. Pakistan need to make a bold move and buy Oil and gas from Russia and Iran to meet its energy needs. Otherwise it will be too late.

Americans always look after their own economic interest. There will be no freebies. And this is the exact reason why India decided to maintain friendly relations with Russia, despite a lot of pressure tactics from the Americans. Look at the European Union and Japan. Under pressure from the Americans, they decided to boycott Russian fuel. Now the energy bills are up by 5x to 10x. Rather than helping them, the Americans are busy profiting out of the situation by selling oil and gas to these people at sky high rates. Any sort of relationship with United States will be highly asymmetrical and one-sided.