ㅤ

[lizarder]

Regarding your first point about struggles in the economy in the event that bitcoin prices continue to fall.   I am not sure if El Salvador is in a worse position because they are involved in bitcoin because there is also evidence that El Salvador's involvement in bitcoin has brought in revenue too, so the evidence does not necessarily support that their getting involved in bitcoin has caused them to perform economically worse than if they had not gotten involved in bitcoin.  Of course, future BTC price performance could bring some further facts to this issue, yet I would not presume that the ONLY direction of BTC's future price performance is down, especially since BTC's current price performance is at (and even below) the 200-week moving average which are historical lows.  Sure, the BTC price could go lower, but it is not guaranteed to go lower as you seem to be presuming in your comments.

Regarding your second point regarding El Salvador's using bitcoin's transparency to crack down on crimes related to money laundry or taxation.  I doubt that their focus is on those kinds of activities as much as it is upon just promoting the growth of bitcoin.  Of course, both can be done at the same time, but in essence El Salvador has pretty liberal tax laws in regards to bitcoin because it is treated as a currency, so there would not be any extra tax burdens by using bitcoin - so I would suspect that if there are any extra tax issues that are coming up because of bitcoin in El Salvador those would be more fringe issues rather than falling under the main ideas around their various current efforts of just wanting to promote the growth of bitcoin throughout the country.

Trying to assume more extreme, I believe that Bitcoin is at a low price El Salvador will have a large enough impact, if it is true that the news report from the IMF they use greater public money in the adoption of Bitcoin in the country.
I mean chaos will be specifically designed by people who try to weaken El Salvador, as a country that recognizes the existence of Bitcoin and invest some state money.
This design aims to undermine El Salvador, towards the adoption of Bitcoin as a financial freedom, thus the Fiat currency does not feel disturbed by some people.
This moment is the same as the beginning of the emergence of dollars in the country, where there is a special agreement on the purchase of products from those who must use dollars and are not justified using other currencies. The goal is the same, they can take two sides of the profit
1. Dollar is maintained and stable
2. Exchange of money will provide multiple benefits for the country, because the currency of other countries if exchanged with dollars will generate huge profits for them.

Has our discussion shifted away, please forgive me?

The second point concerns criminal behavior, this is easier to do if El Salvador experiences distrust from its people.
Well, based on these suspicions, it is necessary to strengthen El Salvador in any way, especially since they are a country that is free to adopt bitcoin and openly legalize bitcoin.

The biggest goal is that bitcoin and fiat currencies can grow at the same time, without being tied to competition or having to kill one of them.

Hopefully my wild assumptions are wrong and don't cause problems, honestly I'm very proud to discuss with you, greetings from me master @jayjuaneee

[1713487553]

1713487553

[1713487553]

1713487553

[1713487553]

1713487553

[Rufsilf]

If this power can be built, it can also stop those who want to use bitcoin/crypto in terms of money laundering, taxation and other crimes, because the state can completely control the growth of bitcoin, by not being given too much access.
Please correct if I'm wrong

Though El Salvador has bought Bitcoin, a huge amount of it, however, it never means that they have the power to control its price. What they meant is just they failed to urge people from adopting and use this as a form of currency like fiat money. They overthink what will happen after having such regulations implementing Bitcoin as a legal tender, yet people are still in the struggle because they are not familiar with this.
I think they need time to prepare themselves and make other strategies in order to encourage their people to adopt Bitcoin. Not really fail, unless they will quit.

[Abiky]

In its current form, the adoption of bitcoin in El Salvador has failed, it is high time to admit it. Low adoption, low use of bitcoin as a means of payment. I understand why this is happening, why people are reluctant to accept unfamiliar technology as a means of payment as an alternative to government central bank notes. As I already wrote in the starting post, the reason is the unpreparedness of the population for this technology. El Salvador is one of the poorest countries in Latin America, low incomes, high crime, I read somewhere that up to 200 people or so leave El Salvador every hour. This experiment can have a second birth, if this project is restarted, where all the mistakes will be taken into account, as many crypto education lessons as possible will be introduced, starting from schools. People need to be introduced to the technology, and not just put before the fact in the style: here is bitcoin for you, start treating it like money. It won't work like that.

El Salvador adopted Bitcoin too early, since most people within the country don't use technology on a daily basis. The vast majority uses paper money (USD) for day-to-day payments. If the government wanted to spur the adoption of Bitcoin, it would've provided the necessary tools/equipment for merchants/customers to get on-board. Now that Bitcoin is in "bearish mode", less people will be interested in adopting the cryptocurrency as an alternative to Fiat. We're going to have to wait until the next bull market, to see how adoption for BTC would grow within the country.

Fortunately, another country has joined the game (Central African Republic), so it should only be a matter of time before the vision of "hyperbitcoinization" becomes a reality. I'm in no rush to see Bitcoin adopted as legal tender in most of the world's countries as long as it works as intended. No one knows what the future holds for BTC, so we can only hope for the best. Just my thoughts

[lizarder]

Though El Salvador has bought Bitcoin, a huge amount of it, however, it never means that they have the power to control its price. What they meant is just they failed to urge people from adopting and use this as a form of currency like fiat money. They overthink what will happen after having such regulations implementing Bitcoin as a legal tender, yet people are still in the struggle because they are not familiar with this.
I think they need time to prepare themselves and make other strategies in order to encourage their people to adopt Bitcoin. Not really fail, unless they will quit.

I never mentioned price controls, I mean money laundering controls or bad behavior involving bitcoin, nor am I sure right now they're a total flop, because from all the news circulating, the people who come to protest don't really know how bitcoins work.
It could be that this is specially designed and financed by the people concerned. The goal is the same, so that El Salvador is no longer trusted by its citizens.
This country is almost generally aware of how bitcoin works and its adoption, so far I haven't found a compelling reason to use bitcoin forcibly, so it's very possible that this was specifically designed by people, many news sources I searched for, the discussion is almost the same, meaning this is happening not because of something the people there want, but the riders to bring down El Salvador

[Dissimulate]

It is just a situation that is caused by dropping of value of Bitcoin which will improve itself as the Bitcoin value will correct itself.

[slaman29]

Nothing will succeed if it is done without the buyin or even the understanding of the people. El Salvador enforced something that most people knew nothing about and then paid a lot of money to companies to help the government do it.

This forum too was full of people saying it was a great thing. Bitcoin doesn't automatically make a process good.

And why are we bringing price into the picture?

[bakasabo]

Dont forget that the government of El Salvador has bought Bitcoin at rather high price with money raised from taxes. I think this fact was a key role failure or even hate of Bitcoin (I am speaking about protests during first days of announcement of acceptance). Imagine, you pay taxes and expect, lets say, improvement of roads, medicine, lower electricity bills (El Salvador uses partly their power plant energy on mining). And instead you see government buys something that drops value 2-3 times during one year.

[Doan9269]

El Salvador adopted Bitcoin too early, since most people within the country don't use technology on a daily basis

Do you really mean that, too early? can we compare the rate of those that actually benefiting to those not, if we consider the total population in El-Savador, the young are young adults are the ones that fully engaged in tech activities and make use of the media most while the aged and young children are just but a few population compared to the ones that take advantage in using bitcoin for their daily businesses and economy affairs, with this adoption in El-Savador, it will rather increases more development by extending bitcoin knowledge to the young ones right from tender age and the adults as well never to miss out the opportunity for an asset to be left behind for their heirs inheritance.

The vast majority uses paper money (USD) for day-to-day payments

yet a good number of this set of people still have bitcoins in their wallet they make use of saliently for either payments where it is acceptable or for an asset because they understand the future that awaits them in doing so

Now that Bitcoin is in "bearish mode", less people will be interested in adopting the cryptocurrency as an alternative to Fiat. We're going to have to wait until the next bull market, to see how adoption for BTC would grow within the country.

but that's totally wrong, if they should set in, then this is the most appropriate time to do so while on dip, waiting till bullrun occur could have renders many opportunities wasted before then and what if during the bullrun comes in another bearish while they just set in, it will rather be more discouraging than ever.

[JayJuanGee]

Nothing will succeed if it is done without the buyin or even the understanding of the people. El Salvador enforced something that most people knew nothing about and then paid a lot of money to companies to help the government do it.

Probably it would be better for your own attempt to understand and appreciate what is happening if you attempt to understand that one of the greatest ways in which people are able to learn and to become more familiar with something is to have it actually something that they can actively engage in.. rather than theoretical.  You act as if there is some kinds of major costs in introducing bitcoin into the country when bitcoin gives options to people in El Salvador.  They do not have to use it if they do not want to.  Its an additional option, and likely people who are there are learning more and more along the way, and they are likely learning more because the government has stated that it is promoting it as one of their possible means of exchange in those there parts (that jurisdiction).. .

This forum too was full of people saying it was a great thing. Bitcoin doesn't automatically make a process good.

It is a good thing.

It continues to be a good thing.

Can you believe that a country was so bold as to provide such an option to their citizens?  And, they do not seem to be distracted by shitcoins either.. at least not so far.. Seems amazing to me.

Dont forget that the government of El Salvador has bought Bitcoin at rather high price with money raised from taxes. I think this fact was a key role failure or even hate of Bitcoin (I am speaking about protests during first days of announcement of acceptance). Imagine, you pay taxes and expect, lets say, improvement of roads, medicine, lower electricity bills (El Salvador uses partly their power plant energy on mining). And instead you see government buys something that drops value 2-3 times during one year.

Governments have all kinds of ways that they balance books and account for funds - accordingly, do you even know their various cashflow matters? 

Sure it is possible that they have been misleading the public in terms of proclaiming that they are getting more revenues coming into the country based on tourism and based on their pro-bitcoin stance/policies.. but I really doubt that the data is quit conclusive in that regard, either.

For sure, I believe that governments need to be as transparent as they can in regards to these kinds of matters, yet at the same time, do we have evidence that establishes that El Salvador is not being transparent enough?  Do we really know that money is not being well spent - including your concerns about the El Salvador bitcoin purchases to date, as you seem to be proclaiming bakasabo?

[Die_empty]

Nothing will succeed if it is done without the buyin or even the understanding of the people. El Salvador enforced something that most people knew nothing about and then paid a lot of money to companies to help the government do it.

This forum too was full of people saying it was a great thing. Bitcoin doesn't automatically make a process good.

And why are we bringing price into the picture?

There is a first time for everything and the people of El Salvador are having deeper understanding of Bitcoin everyday that passes. There is high rate of Bitcoin education going on in that nation, in fact some higher institutions are offering courses on Bitcoin.

Even private businesses spend money when they are introducing a product to the public. The government of that country did all they could to ensure that El Salvadorians embrace Bitcoin. Gradually the acceptance of Bitcoin in that country is expanding everyday. Bitcoin is just an alternative currency and investment. The government did not make it compulsory or force it on the people. It is optional.

This forum is filled with diehard believers of Bitcoin, hence you don't expect them to be pessimistic. El Salvador is the first country to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender and I am sure this forum would give the country every support they deserve.
     

Dont forget that the government of El Salvador has bought Bitcoin at rather high price with money raised from taxes. I think this fact was a key role failure or even hate of Bitcoin (I am speaking about protests during first days of announcement of acceptance). Imagine, you pay taxes and expect, lets say, improvement of roads, medicine, lower electricity bills (El Salvador uses partly their power plant energy on mining). And instead you see government buys something that drops value 2-3 times during one year.

Sometime when people begin the blame El Salvador government for investing in Bitcoin because of the drop in price. My question is usually what about if Bitcoin had hit the $100,000 mark this year. Most critics would have called President Bukele a smart and economic guru. Every investment has risks attached to it. El Salvadorian government invested to make profit and I am sure they never expected the price to drop. But the government still has total confidence in Bitcoin. I am believing that thy would be able to make profit in the nearest future.   

[bakasabo]

Dont forget that the government of El Salvador has bought Bitcoin at rather high price with money raised from taxes. I think this fact was a key role failure or even hate of Bitcoin (I am speaking about protests during first days of announcement of acceptance). Imagine, you pay taxes and expect, lets say, improvement of roads, medicine, lower electricity bills (El Salvador uses partly their power plant energy on mining). And instead you see government buys something that drops value 2-3 times during one year.

Sometime when people begin the blame El Salvador government for investing in Bitcoin because of the drop in price. My question is usually what about if Bitcoin had hit the $100,000 mark this year. Most critics would have called President Bukele a smart and economic guru. Every investment has risks attached to it. El Salvadorian government invested to make profit and I am sure they never expected the price to drop. But the government still has total confidence in Bitcoin. I am believing that thy would be able to make profit in the nearest future.   

If that thing really happens, then I would regret that I am not a Salvadorian. People would be really happy to see how their $30 turned into $60. This might be only an illusion, but I think those who managed to get free BTC in their Chivo wallets, have already spend them. I doubt that adoption triggered people to make investment in Bitcoin, so that when price hits $100k, they would feel a significant effect.

[Wiwo]

If that thing really happens, then I would regret that I am not a Salvadorian. People would be really happy to see how their $30 turned into $60. This might be only an illusion, but I think those who managed to get free BTC in their Chivo wallets, have already spend them. I doubt that adoption triggered people to make investment in Bitcoin, so that when price hits $100k, they would feel a significant effect.

Oh no ops so funny, you want to change your nationality because of a $30 airdrop and wait for the price of Bitcoin to reach $100,000 so that your $30 will become $60. We must not forget the motive behind the $30 airdrop which is to aid the citizen in making transactions using Bitcoin through the government approved chivo wallets to help test the wallet and to collect feedback and possibly improve on the wallet performance and update, but many El Salvadorians only withdrew the $30 and abandon the wallet after that, while few percentages of the population have 50% usage of the wallet. The low adoption is mostly a result of a lack of awareness and education among the citizens but at the moment the government is taking the necessary steps in educating their citizens and building their awareness of the advantages of bitcoin as an alternative currency in the country.

[Mahanton]

If that thing really happens, then I would regret that I am not a Salvadorian. People would be really happy to see how their $30 turned into $60. This might be only an illusion, but I think those who managed to get free BTC in their Chivo wallets, have already spend them. I doubt that adoption triggered people to make investment in Bitcoin, so that when price hits $100k, they would feel a significant effect.

Oh no ops so funny, you want to change your nationality because of a $30 airdrop and wait for the price of Bitcoin to reach $100,000 so that your $30 will become $60. We must not forget the motive behind the $30 airdrop which is to aid the citizen in making transactions using Bitcoin through the government approved chivo wallets to help test the wallet and to collect feedback and possibly improve on the wallet performance and update, but many El Salvadorians only withdrew the $30 and abandon the wallet after that, while few percentages of the population have 50% usage of the wallet. The low adoption is mostly a result of a lack of awareness and education among the citizens but at the moment the government is taking the necessary steps in educating their citizens and building their awareness of the advantages of bitcoin as an alternative currency in the country.

It was totally been rushed i would say on which El Salvador did make BItcoin as a legal tender and we havent seen if there are some proper education or teachings or awareness even with the basics.
Its understandable that they had done out some teachings after on that certain decision which the result isnt surprising where it would be mostly ignored or been neglected just because people havent
able to know even into its basic principle.Somehow it isnt really still a complete fail since they are still standing strong in regarding with their decision and even make out some purchase
of coins when the market is still on bear season which is something we can say that they trust up BTC that much.

[bestcoins1]

It is just a situation that is caused by dropping of value of Bitcoin which will improve itself as the Bitcoin value will correct itself.

I don't think it's the decline in the value of Bitcoin that has failed bitcoin adoption in El Salvador. But it's more for residents who don't consider Bitcoin as an important currency, so there are still many residents in El Salvador who still prefer to use cash, debit, and credit cards.

And according to research I read on a site, it says that more than 60% of respondents throw away government Chivo wallets after using the $30 bonus. Surprisingly, 89% of Salvadorans have never received remittances with the app, only 3% of respondents have received them in Bitcoin. However, 99% of respondents have never paid taxes with Bitcoin.

I think that this is the peak of the failure of bitcoin adoption in El Salvador, although the government of El Salvador can still improve the situation in order to make bitcoin adoption smoother and more equitable for all citizens and also provide education about the importance of bitcoin currency in life.

[Wiwo]

It was totally been rushed i would say on which El Salvador did make BItcoin as a legal tender and we havent seen if there are some proper education or teachings or awareness even with the basics.
Its understandable that they had done out some teachings after on that certain decision which the result isnt surprising where it would be mostly ignored or been neglected just because people havent
able to know even into its basic principle.Somehow it isnt really still a complete fail since they are still standing strong in regarding with their decision and even make out some purchase
of coins when the market is still on the bear season which is something we can say that they trust up BTC that much.

On a general note, you may view the El Salvador bitcoin adoption as a rushed process but you may still need to have a rethought about the whole situation and come to term with the fact that there is no right time or wrong timing for the adoption of any innovation that is of national interest most especially when it has to do with a country and government. President Bukele is a smart young leader that knows when to strike and how to strike even though Bitcoin has dropped in price since the purchase but we must not forget the fact that the El Salvador Bitcoin holding is not for short-term purposes so we should stop giving a short term result to long term goals or projects.
On the education of the citizens before adoption, I think it is better the way the El Salvador educational sector quickly adopt Bitcoin teaching into their curriculum and so many other post graduates' diploma programs in Bitcoin and blockchain adoption. So with time the effort of the El Salvador government in educating their public will start paying off as the growth in Bitcoin adoption within the country will increase and the use of the government-approved wallets chivo wallets were static and data on the level of growth and impact of Bitcoin adoption in El Salvador will be properly monitored to avoid roadside speculation, let give El Salvador some years to put things together before we can say truly the impact either a failure or success of the projects.

[minairia3]

It is just a situation that is caused by dropping of value of Bitcoin which will improve itself as the Bitcoin value will correct itself.

I don't think it's the decline in the value of Bitcoin that has failed bitcoin adoption in El Salvador. But it's more for residents who don't consider Bitcoin as an important currency, so there are still many residents in El Salvador who still prefer to use cash, debit, and credit cards.

And according to research I read on a site, it says that more than 60% of respondents throw away government Chivo wallets after using the $30 bonus. Surprisingly, 89% of Salvadorans have never received remittances with the app, only 3% of respondents have received them in Bitcoin. However, 99% of respondents have never paid taxes with Bitcoin.

I think that this is the peak of the failure of bitcoin adoption in El Salvador, although the government of El Salvador can still improve the situation in order to make bitcoin adoption smoother and more equitable for all citizens and also provide education about the importance of bitcoin currency in life.

I don't see any connection to the market drop that caused El Salvador's failure to accept bitcoin. Legal tender is what makes bitcoin legal in El Salvador, bitcoin will be the main currency that people can use however they like, not necessarily investment.

Recently they claim bitcoin adoption is helping their country go up and attract many new investments into the country and I haven't seen any claims they have failed, why do we always predict that they have failed? They never fail, bitcoin adoption has some hurdles but they can fix it and will adapt better and better, shouldn't ask for too much while adoption is short-lived. We should give them more time.

[348Judah]

El Salvador adopted Bitcoin too early, since most people within the country don't use technology on a daily basis. The vast majority uses paper money (USD) for day-to-day payments. If the government wanted to spur the adoption of Bitcoin, it would've provided the necessary tools/equipment for merchants/customers to get on-board. Now that Bitcoin is in "bearish mode", less people will be interested in adopting the cryptocurrency as an alternative to Fiat. We're going to have to wait until the next bull market, to see how adoption for BTC would grow within the country.

Fortunately, another country has joined the game (Central African Republic), so it should only be a matter of time before the vision of "hyperbitcoinization" becomes a reality. I'm in no rush to see Bitcoin adopted as legal tender in most of the world's countries as long as it works as intended. No one knows what the future holds for BTC, so we can only hope for the best. Just my thoughts

This is all the more pushing hyperbitcoinization in the world that the failed Salvadoran adoption, which, except for a $30 airdrop or sweet promises to build a bitcoin city, does not stand out. I wonder if there is a change of leadership in El Salvador, will the next government support this failed experiment or will they remove it?

Show me a perfect economy or country in the world and everyone will be free to live in there, i saw a publication that state all the prominent countries with debt in their numbers, can you imagine that UK, US, china and some other well recognized countries all form the list, then someone asked, if all these countries could be in debts, who is now their lender or creditor?, Enough of saying all manners of talk about El-Savador and its bitcoin adoption, other countries that failed to do so have nothing to show forth, we need to understand that El-Savador adopted bitcoin and not altcoin, that's it decision while other should learn or remain mute about it decision, even if there's a change in power, as long as bitcoin remains, El-Savador will always have it a legal tender.

[famososMuertos]

...//...::

First of all, El Salvador has experience in adopting new currencies and if you read that story, that information is available to everyone, then when you document yourself, you find that there was a similar reaction for dollar and in those times the precariousness and access to information was much more difficult.

When some ordinary people who are in El Salvador say that it does not work (bitcoin), these comments are not far from the previous history when they received the dollar as legal tender, in the same way the analyzes of the experts of that time.

So if you look at how the dollar works in El Salvador today, it is (was, now there is bitcoin) the currency that is used, so much so that in that process the Colon (formerly legal currency) in the process did not disappear, nor did it leave to be official, but in practice it is not used, then the transition to the dollar was successful, but! after how many years? and it was the dollar, the USD, that everyone in that region was looking for.
...

In any case, much more can be said as background in El Salvador, by the way you cannot compare it with anything in the bitcoin scale, it does not exist, this country is marking these guidelines as legal tender with bitcoin, so at having a history of adopting legal currency, it is the best comparison, for now, in order to understand or perhaps pretend to have close opinions to determine, is it a success or a failure, then I make this point here, to shorten ideas in my opinion.

...
The true promoters of bitcoin are there, in that generation that by the way began or grew with the adoption of the dollar in 2001, (21 years ago) that generation has been empowered, they have at their disposal a financial tool that will help them become entrepreneurs, or be part of a change, but progressive, where then perhaps El Salvador can say that it was the first country that left behind the US dollar and that in that process bitcoin is the new Colon.
___
I am not Salvadoran, but I am sure that in this process that is just beginning, the "Salvador" dream will also begin to become legal in El Salvador.

[spectre71]

BTC is in parallel with the US dollar there right?

So they can still use good ol USD there correct? So what failed? If you don't want use it, don't.

I thought the push was to help the unbanked. To allow people to receive funds from relatives at a distance such as the US and abroad. Western Union fee's are horrendous.

The amount of BTC  in the countries coffers is a fraction, he didn't bet the farm.

The only loss is see they held him up for ransom for that 1.3bil "loan". The strings that bind and strangle.

[Vaskiy]

What defines it to be failed, is the people that stop using Chivo Wallet after making use of the few dollars available on signup. The postpone of bonds without any proper time schedule, or the statistical data that is being collected by different universities. The president have taken a decision on behalf of his citizens. There were criticism, hatred, opposition and protests. What finally happened, the country have turned to be the first to adopt bitcoin. Further it have experiencing the bear market which isn't predicted to happen for now. Just on this we can't conclude the decrease in the value of holding as a failure. It is a learning for them to prepare for the worse in all time period to reap profit. Until the holdings are sold for a loss, we can't term this to be a failure.