has there been a post about sending bitcoin via infrared and bluetooth? Can it?

[Jatiluhung]

I was chatting casually with my friend. about how the fate of bitcoin if there is no internet network. and my conversation continues to the question.
Can you send bitcoins via bluetooth or via infrared?
this is a stupid question from me. because I really lay about technology and communication. so you can make this a joke. I would not be angry.

but I've also read about sending bitcoins over a satellite network or something. Now I'm looking for it but haven't found the post.

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[btc_angela]

I was chatting casually with my friend. about how the fate of bitcoin if there is no internet network. and my conversation continues to the question.
Can you send bitcoins via bluetooth or via infrared?
this is a stupid question from me. because I really lay about technology and communication. so you can make this a joke. I would not be angry.

but I've also read about sending bitcoins over a satellite network or something. Now I'm looking for it but haven't found the post.

Maybe you are talking about this posts:  [Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna by @fillippone.

Also we did have some discussions about the Bluetooth as well here:

• Sending Bitcoin over Bluetooth?

[pooya87]

Can you send bitcoins via bluetooth or via infrared?
this is a stupid question from me.

There are no stupid questions. You are correctly thinking about alternative ways of communication but only missing the range factor. For example bluetooth has a range of about 10 meters, or infrared (IrDA) that has a range of 2 meters tops which are both very short and it can't work for a global network.

[nullama]

Bitcoin communicates through the Internet, which uses TCP/IP for data transmission.

That means that any transfer protocol in any medium can be used: WiFi, Ethernet, Bluetooth, Infrared, etc, even pigeons aka IP over Avian Carriers:

IPoAC has been successfully implemented, but for only nine packets of data, with a packet loss ratio of 55% (due to operator error),[2] and a response time ranging from 3,000 seconds (50 min) to over 6,000 seconds (100 min). Thus, this technology suffers from high latency.

[Odusko]

The question is does blue tooth have memory capacity to transmit a transaction over the Internet using an IP, I don't think any transaction via Bluetooth/infarared is possible and that is an outright bulshit thought.

[franky1]

any data can be sent via infra-red /bluetooth.. as thats what infra-red and bluetooth communications does

but here is the thing.
to send a transactions you want confirmed on a blockchain and have that blockchain data then relayed via a network that only consists of say bluetooth. is super complex.
because each node(bluetooth device) would need to be:
within X metres of its peer.
open bluetooth allowing quick/random connections
sometime/somewhere, the hops/connections to each other must lead to a mining pool and back
(its one of the flaws of some of the smart contract altnets that require passing the parcel, via close relationships)
it only works if there is a route of willing participants that wont mess with you

it is technically possible. just physically impractical

however.
much like 'bitnotes' you could transfer private keys to someone you wish to give value to face to face. via any form you like. whether its engraved metal, paper, or bluetooth.
however eventually they would want to sweep that key into a private key of their own creation, via the proper internet based network..  to avoid any later in-decision of regret of the give away (should funds remain on the key you both have) and the greed/temptation of you using your key to take funds back

personally i have given people funds via just handing them a private key a few times with people i know. instead of waiting for confirms. i just handed them the private key via multiple methods including bluetooth.
and just let them in their own time sweep the keys to addresses they personally own.

i just would not advice this if you are a recipient of a key from a stranger, as they may promise they wont touch the key to give you time to sweep it. but if there is a trade of goods which means they have walked off with the goods before you have swept the key. they could take the goods and take the funds out of the key before you get to claim them

[fillippone]

I am not an über technical user. But what does exactly means “sending bitcoins”?
To me looks like broadcasting a transaction. This requires transferring a few hundreds bytes to an internet connected device.

Those bytes can be transferred via WiFi, Bluetooth, IR, pigeons, smoke signal (maybe), morse code or mail.

The tricky part is the one where the receiver must check the bytes on the internet.

So, yes, sending bitcoin is possible even with a very low bandwidth mean. The difficult part is receiving them.

[ranochigo]

Bluetooth has terrible latency and bandwidth and is generally not suitable for a deployment for a mesh network of sorts (ie. Bitcoin Nodes).

You must be thinking of Blockstream which has the participants operating with a satellite dish connected to the satellite. This can be achieved with something like Starlink, which has fairly reasonable latency and bandwidth. HAM radio is possible as well but you would run into some problems with potential obstructions and interference.

[kryptqnick]

I think I've also heard of using satellites for BTC, without using the Internet. So I believe that, at least hypothetically, the Internet isn't necessary. That being said, if we're talking not about a personal situation of not having the Internet but having something else and urgently needing to perform a transaction, but about something more devastating like a sort of war that would destroy major Internet infrastructure and people would have much bigger concerns than restoring it, I think BTC would effectively become useless, but so will every digital means of sending anything. I don't think that'll happen, though, and the Internet is reliable enough globally.

[OgNasty]

Can you send bitcoins via bluetooth or via infrared?

Sure.  If it's capable of sending data, you can send a Bitcoin transaction.  If you knew someone with a node that could enter raw transaction data for you, you could send a Bitcoin transaction via carrier pigeon.  Even better, you could send encrypted private keys via carrier pigeon and you'd be sending funds without even needing to use the network at all.

Bluetooth has terrible latency and bandwidth and is generally not suitable for a deployment for a mesh network of sorts (ie. Bitcoin Nodes).

You must be thinking of Blockstream which has the participants operating with a satellite dish connected to the satellite. This can be achieved with something like Starlink, which has fairly reasonable latency and bandwidth. HAM radio is possible as well but you would run into some problems with potential obstructions and interference.

Latency and bandwidth aren't big issues for uploading raw transaction data.  Sure, you might not want to run a node that way, but the question of if Bitcoin can be sent this way is certainly a yes.

HAM radio is actually the thing I think it the coolest.  Personally, I think that is way more exciting than satellites.  I hope someday a giant HAM radio network is setup for Bitcoin.  Any mesh networks I find to be pretty cool.  Especially ones using old school tech.

[hatshepsut93]

Sending Bitcoin means sending it to Bitcoin network. In 99.999% of the time it's done via the Internet. An alternative route is Bitcoin satellite, which is operated by a private company Blockstream. Bluetooth, infrared port and any other data exchange protocol can be used if your device can't connect to the Internet, but the other party can. You just need to create a signed transaction, save it as a file, send the file and then the other party will broadcast it.

[FatFork]

I was chatting casually with my friend. about how the fate of bitcoin if there is no internet network...  

If there is no internet network? Then there is no bitcoin.

What is the use of sending a transaction via infrared or bluetooth if there is no blockchain network to which you will broadcast it?

[Jatiluhung]

I was chatting casually with my friend. about how the fate of bitcoin if there is no internet network. and my conversation continues to the question.
Can you send bitcoins via bluetooth or via infrared?
this is a stupid question from me. because I really lay about technology and communication. so you can make this a joke. I would not be angry.

but I've also read about sending bitcoins over a satellite network or something. Now I'm looking for it but haven't found the post.

Maybe you are talking about this posts:  [Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna by @fillippone.

Also we did have some discussions about the Bluetooth as well here:

• Sending Bitcoin over Bluetooth?

Yes, this is the post I was looking for. Turns out I was wrong in looking for the title. Thank you friend.

this post ( [Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna by @fillippone.
) is a post that I read and made me interested in joining bitcointalk.

because at that time I was thinking about how to send bitcoins when the network wasn't there. and I searched and found this post.
and I see the conversation of o_e_l_e_o and fillipone . it is very interesting and full of expensive education.

[$crypto$]

I was chatting casually with my friend. about how the fate of bitcoin if there is no internet network...  

If there is no internet network? Then there is no bitcoin.

What is the use of sending a transaction via infrared or bluetooth if there is no blockchain network to which you will broadcast it?

So we can only send to close friends if it can be done in infrared or Bluetooth, how to send to exchange or global is difficult for me to imagine.

It is true that if there is no network then there will be no bitcoin, all will be paralyzed in any transaction, and all blockchain networks need the internet.

[Emitdama]

We all know that bitcoin is online so it mainly relies upon the internet and by that we can  assume that bitcoin is useless once there is no internet or electricity. For your other question, I think yes? But, it wasn't totally bitcoin that you are sending but it was private keys or seed phrases but they still contains bitcoin once you import them on a wallet. That is the only way that I know to send bitcoin even if we are offline.

I think there's a thread here before that talks about using bitcoin even when there is no internet. I only forget its title though but the talks there are interesting. You can still try searching it by using some keywords. Good luck!

[Jatiluhung]

We all know that bitcoin is online so it mainly relies upon the internet and by that we can  assume that bitcoin is useless once there is no internet or electricity. For your other question, I think yes? But, it wasn't totally bitcoin that you are sending but it was private keys or seed phrases but they still contains bitcoin once you import them on a wallet. That is the only way that I know to send bitcoin even if we are offline.

I think there's a thread here before that talks about using bitcoin even when there is no internet. I only forget its title though but the talks there are interesting. You can still try searching it by using some keywords. Good luck!

yes I think so too if there is no internet globally throughout the country.
but the case when there is no internet on a small scale for example in an area in a certain part of the country. it turns out that it can still be tricked in certain ways such as LoRaWan/goTena. as described in this topic [Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna .

I've also read about successful radio wave bitcoin sending experiments with EME (Earth Moon Earth, Moon Bounce) (Sourch Link

maybe there are many other ways that I have not read?

[FatFork]

I was chatting casually with my friend. about how the fate of bitcoin if there is no internet network...  

If there is no internet network? Then there is no bitcoin.

What is the use of sending a transaction via infrared or bluetooth if there is no blockchain network to which you will broadcast it?

So we can only send to close friends if it can be done in infrared or Bluetooth, how to send to exchange or global is difficult for me to imagine.

No. If there was no bitcoin network, you would not be able to send it to your close friends either, since there would be no miners to confirm the transaction and add it to the blockchain.
If there was no bitcoin network, there would be no live blockchain. The only thing you can send via via infrared or bluetooth is a raw transaction, which means nothing if it is not broadcast over the bitcoin network.

It is true that if there is no network then there will be no bitcoin, all will be paralyzed in any transaction, and all blockchain networks need the internet.

That's right.

[NotATether]

This is not possible for two reasons:

- Bluetooth has a very short signal range, infrared is slightly better but both still not as good as WiFi, so it would require many Bluetooth transmission ports at relatively close distances to each other, which is an enormous financial cost.
- There are no "global name servers" like we have for the internet, so each Bluetooth network is isolated and that would result in chian-splitting of the blockchain.

[Jatiluhung]

This is not possible for two reasons:

- Bluetooth has a very short signal range, infrared is slightly better but both still not as good as WiFi, so it would require many Bluetooth transmission ports at relatively close distances to each other, which is an enormous financial cost.
- There are no "global name servers" like we have for the internet, so each Bluetooth network is isolated and that would result in chian-splitting of the blockchain.

oh so it turns out. if there is no internet anywhere then this is not possible.

my correction is i think bluetooth is better than infrared so far.
because back in the era of cellphones still using infrared, I still remember to send files from my cellphone to my friend's cellphone via infrared, so our cellphones really have to be brought closer. but for bluetooth is still affordable about 10 meters.
correct me if i'm wrong.

[Adbitco]

This is not possible for two reasons:

- Bluetooth has a very short signal range, infrared is slightly better but both still not as good as WiFi, so it would require many Bluetooth transmission ports at relatively close distances to each other, which is an enormous financial cost.
- There are no "global name servers" like we have for the internet, so each Bluetooth network is isolated and that would result in chian-splitting of the blockchain.

oh so it turns out. if there is no internet anywhere then this is not possible.

my correction is i think bluetooth is better than infrared so far.
because back in the era of cellphones still using infrared, I still remember to send files from my cellphone to my friend's cellphone via infrared, so our cellphones really have to be brought closer. but for bluetooth is still affordable about 10 meters.
correct me if i'm wrong.

Also it simply means we can't send out payment or  receive payment if we are not seating closer making much difficult for someone in Abroad to receive bitcoin or even trade it if there's a global short down of internet access.
Internet gain the power for Digital assets and as well is the most important part of life most businesses and businessman anchors or net, and again it surely affects our banking sectors so even physical money (fiat) is at risk as well. Internet is the most needed, if bluetooth and infrared has to be is just a means of an alternative whereby it will be used at local shop or mall even eatery's since is a close distance.

[Jatiluhung]

This is not possible for two reasons:

- Bluetooth has a very short signal range, infrared is slightly better but both still not as good as WiFi, so it would require many Bluetooth transmission ports at relatively close distances to each other, which is an enormous financial cost.
- There are no "global name servers" like we have for the internet, so each Bluetooth network is isolated and that would result in chian-splitting of the blockchain.

oh so it turns out. if there is no internet anywhere then this is not possible.

my correction is i think bluetooth is better than infrared so far.
because back in the era of cellphones still using infrared, I still remember to send files from my cellphone to my friend's cellphone via infrared, so our cellphones really have to be brought closer. but for bluetooth is still affordable about 10 meters.
correct me if i'm wrong.

Also it simply means we can't send out payment or  receive payment if we are not seating closer making much difficult for someone in Abroad to receive bitcoin or even trade it if there's a global short down of internet access.
Internet gain the power for Digital assets and as well is the most important part of life most businesses and businessman anchors or net, and again it surely affects our banking sectors so even physical money (fiat) is at risk as well. Internet is the most needed, if bluetooth and infrared has to be is just a means of an alternative whereby it will be used at local shop or mall even eatery's since is a close distance.

yes it must be close together because infrared is usually around 3 meters away and for bluetooth about 10 meters. so indeed if you look at the explanations of others, it is not possible to go long distances, especially outside the city. well maybe bluetooth and infrared can only be used as an alternative in shops or face-to-face transactions. it also seems to have to be integrated with the internet that is connected to the blockchain. maybe like that.