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Author Topic: Are the Miners acting as the biggest whale!  (Read 312 times)
swogerino
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June 27, 2022, 12:01:28 PM
 #21

I hope that most of the miners now have switched to renewable energy resources so that they would have been able to be more profitable in their investments.

I think the majority of the big farms have done already and the big ones who want to stay alive in this game are forced to do so or otherwise they will have to go offline during the upcoming crypto winter.

Miners are not acting as the biggest whale,they are just selling the coins they mine to be able to pay rent and energy consumption,the big mining farms who are still on non renewable energy.If they fail to move to solar panels for example they will be having a hard time with the energy prices skyrocketing throughout the world so they are not the whales,just selling to keep their activity ongoing.

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June 27, 2022, 12:16:49 PM
 #22

The SMA30 and SMA60 on the 3rd chart in the OP are the moving averages for hashrate, not for price. His argument seems to be that since the 30 day hashrate moving average has dropped below the 60 day hashrate moving average, that the hashrate is falling. Which is partly true as hashrate is down marginally over the last few weeks, but we are talking in the region of a few percent as you point out, and certainly not a crash as he is suggesting.

My bad, I saw the first line which mentioned when to buy, and coming from another speculation thread with the same moving average I thought it was about the price hitting those, not the hashrate. Of course, for this he is quite right, the hashrate is far more linear than the price and far more unidirectional, if the shorter term period is lower than the longer one it's obviously a downtrend.
But again, it doesn't mean much, a single huge farm going through a period of refining or maintenance could be the cause for half of those 1% swings.

I hope that most of the miners now have switched to renewable energy resources so that they would have been able to be more profitable in their investments.
I think the majority of the big farms have done already and the big ones who want to stay alive in this game are forced to do so or otherwise they will have to go offline during the upcoming crypto winter.
~
If they fail to move to solar panels for example they will be having a hard time with the energy prices skyrocketing throughout the world so they are not the whales,just selling to keep their activity ongoing.

Yeah right, like everyone wants to pay millions for batteries and going solar rather than pay 2cents per kWh for coal-generated energy.
That's why we have tens of farms on coal and gas and a big zero on full solar not grid-tied, so no, no majority has done anything like this.



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June 27, 2022, 12:20:16 PM
 #23

I hope that most of the miners now have switched to renewable energy resources so that they would have been able to be more profitable in their investments.

I think the majority of the big farms have done already and the big ones who want to stay alive in this game are forced to do so or otherwise they will have to go offline during the upcoming crypto winter.


I think many people would like to believe so, because they are in fear that bitcoin will be banned because of the impact on the envoirment. But I think the more honest answer is that miners will use the energy that they can get for the cheapest price. So if you can set up your miners next to a solar farm and can get cheap energy it makes sense, but the same goes for mining next to a coal power plant. So I think it all depends on how prices for energy will be in the future.
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June 27, 2022, 02:18:01 PM
Last edit: September 10, 2023, 01:05:22 PM by dragonvslinux
 #24

I wouldn't trust the Hash Ribbons indicator from LookIntoBitcoin. I'm not sure where they are getting their hash rate data from, but it's very different than the original indicator on trading view:

   

As you can see, LIB indicator shows a bullish crossover with the MA30 and MA60, indicating hash rate recovery. While the original indicator shows nothing of the sort. I've otherwise been documenting the ongoing "miner capitulation" for anyone interested. Currently the average mining cost is back below current price, so hash rate remains relatively stable.

The capitulation signal is therefore based on lack of growth, rather than hash rate decline. The buy signal would otherwise arrive with a MA bullish crossover, as well as price returning to $30K. The fact that miners have been heavily dumping their coins I otherwise find a good thing, to me it means they don't have a backlog of coins to sell for further capitulation right now.


Since you seem like an expert about BTC miners here, do you think the recent amount of heavy dump from miners has anything to do with the Ukraine-Russia war? Cause from what information I know, a lot of BTC mining farms were in Ukraine because of the cheap price of electricity. Then bam, the war forced those miners hastily sell their bags to bail out because of the disruption in business, have pay back loans.
I also agree with your assessment, less amount of BTC in miners' bags is a good thing.

Well for starters, I'm no expert. I've simply studied the original hash ribbons indicator since 2019. I otherwise don't think this has anything directly to do with the Ukraine-Russia war no.

There might be a lot of mining farms in Ukraine, but in comparison to the rest of the network, I imagine it's negligible. Miners, along with whales, have a habbit of dumping big bags near the lows (I saw a graph recently confirming this, but unfortunately can't find it for reference sake). It is probably to do with loans and bad business models though, as I've seen mentioned elsewhere. Whereas miners who can't turn a profit should simply be switching off and waiting for price to recover, if they have outstanding loans (which they dependant on mining to pay), then no doubt they will have to dump their bags (even at a loss). That's my assumption anyway, giving how over-leveraged and over-collateralized the market has been in recent months.

Again nope, SMA30, SMA60, SMA69, DAP69, none of them don't show anything meaningful about mining.
The SMA30 and SMA60 on the 3rd chart in the OP are the moving averages for hashrate, not for price. His argument seems to be that since the 30 day hashrate moving average has dropped below the 60 day hashrate moving average, that the hashrate is falling.

To clarify, this MA crossover doesn't imply hash rate is falling, but simply that the average hash rate over the past 2 months is higher than the average of the past month. The MA30 has been falling for over a month now, even with hash rate making a new ATH during this period. As I've referenced elsewhere, this "capitulation" signal can appear from stagnation of growth, such as what happened three times in 2020.

Which is partly true as hashrate is down marginally over the last few weeks, but we are talking in the region of a few percent as you point out, and certainly not a crash as he is suggesting.

Agree. The fact that price fell below the average mining cost @ $30K in mid-May, but now has reduced to $20K (while price is above it), means that so far the network is balancing itself against price quite nicely. The capitulation event occurs when price drops below average mining cost and fails to recover, either with the average coming back down to the price, or the price coming back to the average.

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June 27, 2022, 02:37:14 PM
 #25

By Miners I do think they mean by the Big companies that hold most of the hash rate the reason for less individual miners are varied from :

Extremely expensive license to A lot of Competition in the market but at the end of the day if they are big bitcoin mining companies they can 'choose' which ones they wanna mine and even hold a considerable amount since they are already in this sector and behind these companies are already the very rich whales, so what do you know ? No idea how this is all connected but at the end of the day I do think that it's extremely relative and one cannot trust the percentage off the internet.

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June 27, 2022, 03:50:47 PM
 #26

I don't think miners have that much of an impact. As mentioned, it can cause price volatility in bulk sales, but when viewed from a broad perspective, the effect is very small. The market has its own speculators, and everything in the global economy now affects Bitcoin as well. There is no longer a market in the hands of a few groups as before. It's a trillion dollar industry. Isn't that one of the purposes of Bitcoin? A more distributed economy that small groups cannot control. I don't think the miners will sell at a loss either. The dramatic drop in price may only be momentary. I don't think all miners think and act the same way, so that doesn't make them the biggest whale.

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June 27, 2022, 08:08:05 PM
 #27

Sure, if miners sell all the bitcoin they get it will flood the market and cause prices to fall more and more, but I expect there is a limit they will stop at if they keep selling and the price continues to drop they will reach the point where the price of bitcoin is less than the cost of production Therefore, they will be losers and will stop selling in this case, they are forced in such cases to hold the bitcoin for a period of time until prices improve and get their profits, otherwise they will stop mining and sell their hardware.

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June 27, 2022, 08:38:46 PM
 #28

Sure, if miners sell all the bitcoin they get it will flood the market and cause prices to fall more and more, but I expect there is a limit they will stop at if they keep selling and the price continues to drop they will reach the point where the price of bitcoin is less than the cost of production Therefore, they will be losers and will stop selling in this case, they are forced in such cases to hold the bitcoin for a period of time until prices improve and get their profits, otherwise they will stop mining and sell their hardware.
Atleast for that reason the miners won't disturb the market with large scale selling. If I'm not wrong after the bullish market of 2017 the miners haven't experienced such a situation of bitcoin and ethereum valued less than the cost of production. Prior to the 2017 bull market the price wasn't that big and the power requirements were high. Nowadays energy efficient mining equipments too support good in the low cost production.

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June 27, 2022, 08:41:18 PM
 #29

I don't think the miners are acting as the biggest whale and instead are reacting to market conditions.  I'm sure they didn't want to sell massive amounts at the low, but were forced to in order to ensure they could keep the lights on going forward.  Seems reactionary to me.  If they were acting as the biggest whale, you wouldn't have seen them selling the bottom and they would have instead been buying it.  The actual whale is the guy who was selling at $65K and buying at $17K, which I believe was just about the opposite of what miners have been doing.

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June 28, 2022, 02:48:08 AM
 #30

6.25 a block x 2016blocks a fortnight x 2= 25200btc a month
selling 4000 is not the entire production

Whoops good one my bro doing the math  Cool


besides that, the miner or the news-called whale might only sell their portion of crypto to keep their mining industry running. and if you can see the new miner always drove the bitcoin hashrate and difficulty UP. if they want to destroy the entire crypto market is like they want to destroy their mining industry the logic is like that right. and those chart is act as one miner in the world not single entity right so we can judge them by only the chart

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June 28, 2022, 03:26:19 AM
 #31



As a whole, miners can be acting as whales and can therefore be influencing the price direction of Bitcoin in the market. However, we have to note that we are talking here of miners from different geographic location and so many of them are doing business without necessary being connected with other miners and so yeah they are doing their business as standalone...so they can be acting differently under many circumstances. And because they are doing business, it is just natural that miners can be selling the coins they mined from time to time...nobody can stop them from doing so.

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