DO NOT BUY FROM BCMINT.com

[Steeley]

Ad MrCryptHodl:

It occured to me, that solution to this whole issue might be simply stop selling your coins and ingots loaded... I mean even Max Mellenbruch (Kialara, IMHO the very top tier of DIY coins) sells his stuff unfunded and it's upon a buyer whether to load it or not. I personally trust you (hopefully rightly ;-) but doing this would stop the discussion as a whole. <- Just an idea, feel free to disregard it

tldr: Your suggestion is interesting regarding whether it minimizes the risk, but the problematic point of trust is the private key. A DIY is still the same as a loaded if the private key is maintained by a nefarious creator that intends to sweep the coins. For example, I don't think the BCMint coins are preloaded, at least none that I ever saw were. So the same dilemma still exists. So they are fine, at best, as collectibles, but are they trustworthy as wallets?

[MrCryptHodl]

Ad MrCryptHodl:

It occured to me, that solution to this whole issue might be simply stop selling your coins and ingots loaded... I mean even Max Mellenbruch (Kialara, IMHO the very top tier of DIY coins) sells his stuff unfunded and it's upon a buyer whether to load it or not. I personally trust you (hopefully rightly ;-) but doing this would stop the discussion as a whole. <- Just an idea, feel free to disregard it

tldr: Your suggestion is interesting regarding whether it minimizes the risk, but the problematic point of trust is the private key. A DIY is still the same as a loaded if the private key is maintained by a nefarious creator that intends to sweep the coins. For example, I don't think the BCMint coins are preloaded, at least none that I ever saw were. So the same dilemma still exists. So they are fine, at best, as collectibles, but are they trustworthy as wallets?

By DIY I thought the coins and the hologram sold not assembled. 


But yes for  buyer funded coins, coin and hologram assembled but not loaded, the problem is still the same if the creator is dishonest.

[MoparMiningLLC]

Ad MrCryptHodl:

It occured to me, that solution to this whole issue might be simply stop selling your coins and ingots loaded... I mean even Max Mellenbruch (Kialara, IMHO the very top tier of DIY coins) sells his stuff unfunded and it's upon a buyer whether to load it or not. I personally trust you (hopefully rightly ;-) but doing this would stop the discussion as a whole. <- Just an idea, feel free to disregard it

So yes the next step was DIY and/or "buyer funded" such as Kialara or AlpenCoin! But the replacement is not planned!   If one day I stop making loaded coins, it's because no one wants them anymore, but not because someone isn't happy, someone who has never bought one of my collectibles.  

Btw thank you for your trust and support ! always really appreciate !

I would prefer all makers to offer DIY versions -after all, bitcoin is about "dont trust, verify" so everyone should really make their own keys and not trust the maker of any keys. That being said, we all have at one point or another done so and/or still do so.

Me personally would prefer all to be DIY

[2stout]

Ad MrCryptHodl:

It occured to me, that solution to this whole issue might be simply stop selling your coins and ingots loaded... I mean even Max Mellenbruch (Kialara, IMHO the very top tier of DIY coins) sells his stuff unfunded and it's upon a buyer whether to load it or not. I personally trust you (hopefully rightly ;-) but doing this would stop the discussion as a whole. <- Just an idea, feel free to disregard it

So yes the next step was DIY and/or "buyer funded" such as Kialara or AlpenCoin! But the replacement is not planned!   If one day I stop making loaded coins, it's because no one wants them anymore, but not because someone isn't happy, someone who has never bought one of my collectibles.  

Btw thank you for your trust and support ! always really appreciate !

I would prefer all makers to offer DIY versions -after all, bitcoin is about "dont trust, verify" so everyone should really make their own keys and not trust the maker of any keys. That being said, we all have at one point or another done so and/or still do so.

Me personally would prefer all to be DIY

To me, the loaded coins/tokens/objects have an allure about them that the others just don't and typically won't.  Also, for the most part, a DIY loses tradability once assembled, really no fun in that.  If one is going the route of cold storage and being their own bank for their sats, then DIY makes more sense.

[owlcatz]

Ok so I don't have time to write/quote/edit a book so I'll keep it short and to the point...

My overall point was that I did not know who MrHodlclub or any of these newbies selling loading items were from or their private key generating procedures.

I already stated I have no skin in any of these games, I just think a LOT of trust has been given to many new makers pretty fast, and it worries me, since the true test of time is time itself...  

I did not mean to vilify anyone, my overall point to my rant was that UNLESS you actually KNOW who the coinmaker is in REAL LIFE, how would you ever trust them, or their private key generation procedures?

I trust roughly only 3 or 4 coin/x makers right now, and even them with only smaller amounts.... Smoothie, Yogg, polymerbit, and Frank @ Alpen coin... Why? Because they have all done things slowly and with great thought and both Smoothie and Yogg are actually programmers who seriously know their shit - How would I know that you ask? Because I know them and have interacted with them about actual fuckin code lol... THAT is why I trust them. Frank, well, the test of time will have to happen, but he's well on his way and not rushing shit in a mad cash grab like some others look to be doing...

My rant had more to do with what Chib summed up much more nicely hahaha - "Not your keys, not your coins". Stay vigilant, never put more on someone else's keys that you can't afford to lose.
Sorry if I pissed anybody off, was not my intent, just worried for the community since these things seem to go so fast it's weird to me lately and I hate seeing people get burned.

To whoever wrote: "Destroy those keys!!" , I thank you... Just ask Tim @ TitanBTC, amirite?

Cheers and happy Memorial Day all, be safe out there!

If anyone would like to discuss further, please drop me a PM... /out

[MoparMiningLLC]

To me, the loaded coins/tokens/objects have an allure about them that the others just don't and typically won't.  Also, for the most part, a DIY loses tradability once assembled, really no fun in that.  If one is going the route of cold storage and being their own bank for their sats, then DIY makes more sense.

I wont disagree on that aspect of the allure. But really, the tradability is the same - you still have to trust that the person holding it (not the manufacturer) did not tamper with/compromise/replace the private key - while not super easy, it is also not impossible to remove a holo, scan the private key and replace the holo without someone able to tell - can the average person do it? probably not. But it has been done.

Basically, unless you buy from the manufacturer you have no way to know it is still intact and untampered with - you go from trusting the manufacturer to trusting every single person who laid fingers on it.

To each their own - I guess maybe a compromise would be to offer it both ways - the manufacturer loses nothing to sell it as a DIY.


edit:

"Not your keys, not your coins". Stay vigilant, never put more on someone else's keys that you can't afford to lose.

I whole heartedly agree with the above.

Every key I have generated for anyone - I have said the above to - almost verbatim. 

[Bullion-n-BTC]

Ad MrCryptHodl:

It occured to me, that solution to this whole issue might be simply stop selling your coins and ingots loaded... I mean even Max Mellenbruch (Kialara, IMHO the very top tier of DIY coins) sells his stuff unfunded and it's upon a buyer whether to load it or not. I personally trust you (hopefully rightly ;-) but doing this would stop the discussion as a whole. <- Just an idea, feel free to disregard it

So yes the next step was DIY and/or "buyer funded" such as Kialara or AlpenCoin! But the replacement is not planned!   If one day I stop making loaded coins, it's because no one wants them anymore, but not because someone isn't happy, someone who has never bought one of my collectibles.  

Btw thank you for your trust and support ! always really appreciate !

While I understand the argument the gentleman above makes about selling diy coins, there is something to be said about buying a highly sought after, beautiful, high end crypto collectible that is loaded by the seller, from a reputable seller. Imho these also command the highest resale price on the secondary market (not that I’d sell mine). Funded pieces have their place just as DIY pieces have their place. Ultimately it comes down to the buyer making an educated, well thought out buy. If I take a risk and buy a funded coin from a relatively new seller that’s on me. Is the coin worth the risk in my opinion? Am I keeping the coin for my self? If I sell the coin later and the keys have been swept I am responsible for the loss of funds, atleast in the eyes of the person I sold it to. Many factors go into this decision and once again it ultimately comes down to making the best, most well informed decision I can at the time with the information available to me. We all play this game and this game comes with inherent risks that we all try and navigate as best we can. Risk vs reward plays a huge part in my decisions to buy new, funded crypto pieces.

[MrCryptHodl]

I trust roughly only 3 or 4 coin/x makers right now, and even them with only smaller amounts.... Smoothie, Yogg, polymerbit, and Frank @ Alpen coin... Why? Because they have all done things slowly and with great thought and both Smoothie and Yogg are actually programmers who seriously know their shit - How would I know that you ask? Because I know them and have interacted with them about actual fuckin code lol... THAT is why I trust them. Frank, well, the test of time will have to happen, but he's well on his way and not rushing shit in a mad cash grab like some others look to be doing...

I'm sorry but I'm just going to stop answering. it's getting ridiculous.

[I completely understand what he is talking about, but I find his attacks on the "new" maker to be useless and unfounded, if everyone would have listened to him, casacius would never have made a coin,
collectibles have a whole story, they have sold loaded for almost 10 years now, frankly your opinion I don't care, it just looks like you're a bully or a things like that. you never dealt with me, you didn't even come to meet me, you don't even have 1 of my collectibles...go make your movies somewhere else, you're just a guy who judges people without knowing them, and people like you are useless, but very common on the internet.]

but he's well on his way and not rushing shit in a mad cash grab like some others look to be doing...

And when it's not the private keys the problem, it becomes a cash grab..... I understood how you are, it's good, you don't need to say more.

[pinky1234]

This chat turn from Judging MInt - to Telenovelas (Soap Opera) . i would love to say many things here , but i rather keep it to myself since am not a Senior Member yet  . 

[Bullion-n-BTC]

This chat turn from Judging MInt - to Telenovelas (Soap Opera) . i would love to say many things here , but i rather keep it to myself since am not a Senior Member yet  . 

I wouldn’t call it judging a mint. More like warning people away so they don’t throw their money away buying a product that they will never receive. I’d definitely want somebody to tell me if a mint was going to scam me.