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Author Topic: WeUseCoins: 2nd Video - Content  (Read 9882 times)
kiba
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April 11, 2011, 02:21:43 AM
 #21


I'd like to see a video targeted towards left-leaning people that argues from their world-view-- why the existing monetary system is unfair and benefits a rich elite at the expense of the working masses.  How Bitcoin can change that and be a People-Powered money, backed not by empty promises from rich bankers but by the strength and trust of the person-to-person Bitcoin Community.  How friends and neighbors using Bitcoin can keep money in local communities.  How using Bitcoin lets you interact with people all over the world, promoting peace and understanding.  How it is better for the environment than gold mining or trucking coins and cash to and from stores and banks.

Well, I think that's what someone called "narratives".

We still need a narrative for anonymity, though.

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April 11, 2011, 07:56:17 AM
 #22

Proof of work is required to decentralised the network.  Gavin explains that quite well in one of his interview. 

So to clarify, I do actually know the answers :-) I was just making the point that a video which explains the technology would need to cover these. An animated video isn't really appropriate IMHO.
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April 11, 2011, 08:44:48 AM
 #23

An animated video isn't really appropriate IMHO.

I agree. In-depth technical stuff is best done through lectures or text.

Gavin's idea for left-oriented propaganda sounds nice. An overview of the economics for skeptical libertarians would also be good.

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April 13, 2011, 07:12:13 AM
 #24

Of course, early adopter libertarian-leaning bitcoiners will probably HATE it, but they wouldn't be the target audience...

I think bringing politics into it is very dangerous indeed. One of the things that most fascinates me about Bitcoin is that it speaks to people from across the spectrum, so I feel like making a video that takes a certain viewpoint would only serve to divide the community and put Bitcoin in a corner unnecessarily.

That said, I also agree with what [mike] and theymos say about videos being the wrong medium for technical information. At least generally speaking. I actually went into the discussion with the graphical designer having something very close to what [mike] described in mind. (i.e. about an hour long, mostly lecture/talk, with some animated illustrations.) He (our designer) argued that you could make a more laymen friendly video if you keep it shorter and you could also use the individual segments to put them on the corresponding wiki pages, so they serve as more of an introduction to the text which is more in-depth. Right now I'm still totally open for any format - I think we have to be a bit opportunistic as well.

[mike]: Would you consider working with us such that you hold the talk and we do some animations for intro, outro and to illustrate some of the trickier bits?

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April 13, 2011, 08:41:52 AM
 #25

I think that most of the early adopters (including those who adopt over the next couple years) will have to be somewhat technically or economically inclined.  The reason is that the typical technically and economically disinclined money-spender is under the spell of the "sausage factory effect" when it comes to monetary transactions and the value of currency (i.e. they like it but they don't want to know how it's made).  Foisting an economic exploration of the nature of value on such a person will be met with suspicion ("they're trying to convince me this is worth something when obviously it isn't") and then discomfort and cognitive dissonance ("you mean these pieces of paper in my wallet are really just pieces of paper?").

While many here may see this process of educating the masses to be politically expedient, among the broadest scope of potential users, it will just cause them to associate Bitcoin with confusion and discomfort.  I think that, before Bitcoin can have true mass adoption, we need a way to communicate to the public nor more and no less than "it just works".

That being said, if the audience is the "technically and economically inclined", go right ahead and explain how it works, because that is a fascinating topic.   Cheesy

Vires In Numeris.
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April 13, 2011, 11:48:05 AM
 #26

I think that most of the early adopters (including those who adopt over the next couple years) will have to be somewhat technically or economically inclined. 

Not sure. It's true for now, but it might change in the next couple of years. Bitcoin has some significant advantages over other alternatives for some particular uses. For ex., I don't think that all users of silk road are technically or economically inclined, and for what I've read here, they're growing fast. Another ex. is international transferring... as soon as we have different exchanges in many countries, making international transfers with bitcoins will probably be easier and cheaper than the conventional means. That'll be particularly interesting for immigrants.

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Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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April 13, 2011, 01:15:05 PM
 #27

Of course, early adopter libertarian-leaning bitcoiners will probably HATE it, but they wouldn't be the target audience...

I think bringing politics into it is very dangerous indeed. One of the things that most fascinates me about Bitcoin is that it speaks to people from across the spectrum, so I feel like making a video that takes a certain viewpoint would only serve to divide the community and put Bitcoin in a corner unnecessarily.

That said, I also agree with what [mike] and theymos say about videos being the wrong medium for technical information. At least generally speaking. I actually went into the discussion with the graphical designer having something very close to what [mike] described in mind. (i.e. about an hour long, mostly lecture/talk, with some animated illustrations.) He (our designer) argued that you could make a more laymen friendly video if you keep it shorter and you could also use the individual segments to put them on the corresponding wiki pages, so they serve as more of an introduction to the text which is more in-depth. Right now I'm still totally open for any format - I think we have to be a bit opportunistic as well.

[mike]: Would you consider working with us such that you hold the talk and we do some animations for intro, outro and to illustrate some of the trickier bits?

Obviously it's more work but it would be a lot easier to keep people interested like you said. If for example you want to learn about "solving blocks" and have a 5min or so clip on that. Obviously you could reuse a lot of the animation and it wouldn't be as bad as making everything from scratch. Especially if each video were only as animation intensive as needed to be. I would rather skip the stuff I know and learn the stuff I'm interested in. I know enough that I wouldn't want to watch a 1 hour long bitcoin video at this point but I'm interested in certain aspects like privacy etc.

I'm not sure if you've got a template that would make mostly lecture based shorter videos easy enough to produce. The voice over was amazing on this video too, hate to lose such quality.

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April 13, 2011, 03:16:50 PM
 #28

I think that most of the early adopters (including those who adopt over the next couple years) will have to be somewhat technically or economically inclined. 

Not sure. It's true for now, but it might change in the next couple of years. Bitcoin has some significant advantages over other alternatives for some particular uses. For ex., I don't think that all users of silk road are technically or economically inclined, and for what I've read here, they're growing fast. Another ex. is international transferring... as soon as we have different exchanges in many countries, making international transfers with bitcoins will probably be easier and cheaper than the conventional means. That'll be particularly interesting for immigrants.
My point wasn't so much that Bitcoin is too hard for the typical person to use, rather that it will be hard to market to the typical person if we operate under the assumption that everyone wants to know how it works before they use it.  More convincing would be testimonials and examples of how useful Bitcoins already are - basically what you're suggesting.  Unfortunately, at this point, it's a little bit too young for us to have much material to draw upon in that regard.

As for the current userbase, to "technically or economically inclined", add "or members of the political fringe".

Vires In Numeris.
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April 13, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
 #29

I'd like to see a video targeted towards left-leaning people that argues from their world-view-- why the existing monetary system is unfair and benefits a rich elite at the expense of the working masses.  How Bitcoin can change that and be a People-Powered money, backed not by empty promises from rich bankers but by the strength and trust of the person-to-person Bitcoin Community.  How friends and neighbors using Bitcoin can keep money in local communities.  How using Bitcoin lets you interact with people all over the world, promoting peace and understanding.  How it is better for the environment than gold mining or trucking coins and cash to and from stores and banks.

At the end of this video have a guy keep yelling, "FOX...LIES!  FOX...LIES!  FOX...LIES!!!" over and over.

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matonis
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April 14, 2011, 01:02:49 AM
 #30


I'd like to see a video targeted towards left-leaning people that argues from their world-view-- why the existing monetary system is unfair and benefits a rich elite at the expense of the working masses.  How Bitcoin can change that and be a People-Powered money, backed not by empty promises from rich bankers but by the strength and trust of the person-to-person Bitcoin Community.  How friends and neighbors using Bitcoin can keep money in local communities.  How using Bitcoin lets you interact with people all over the world, promoting peace and understanding.  How it is better for the environment than gold mining or trucking coins and cash to and from stores and banks.

Well, I think that's what someone called "narratives".

We still need a narrative for anonymity, though.

I believe the narrative for anonymity is "financial privacy" as a fundamental human right.  Where along the way did we lose our basic right to simple financial privacy?  Sheeple have been unfairly conditioned to think that secrecy equals concealment and nothing could be further from the truth. It is wrong to preach that we have to surrender basic financial privacy so that TPTB can endlessly chase the Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse.  Secrecy = Privacy,  Secrecy ≠ Concealment. See http://www.arraydev.com/commerce/jibc/9601-2.htm

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I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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April 14, 2011, 01:05:27 AM
 #31


I can assure you that there are academicly trained economists that are watching Bitcoin.  I can also assure you that none of them that you would want to review Bitcoin is going to be willing to stake their professional reputation yet.

If all you need is the script reviewed, either post it here in the economics section of this forum; jump to one of the many economic forums elsewhere.  I think that you'll find that there is no real consensus that can be achieved on any of the questionable parts.

I am an economist and I already have staked my reputation on Bitcoin.

Founding Director, Bitcoin Foundation
I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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April 14, 2011, 03:28:54 AM
 #32


I can assure you that there are academicly trained economists that are watching Bitcoin.  I can also assure you that none of them that you would want to review Bitcoin is going to be willing to stake their professional reputation yet.

If all you need is the script reviewed, either post it here in the economics section of this forum; jump to one of the many economic forums elsewhere.  I think that you'll find that there is no real consensus that can be achieved on any of the questionable parts.

I am an economist and I already have staked my reputation on Bitcoin.

Okay, then who are you?  Are you a professor?  Where are you published?  And in what way have you publicly supported Bitcoin?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 14, 2011, 04:29:06 AM
 #33


I can assure you that there are academicly trained economists that are watching Bitcoin.  I can also assure you that none of them that you would want to review Bitcoin is going to be willing to stake their professional reputation yet.

If all you need is the script reviewed, either post it here in the economics section of this forum; jump to one of the many economic forums elsewhere.  I think that you'll find that there is no real consensus that can be achieved on any of the questionable parts.

I am an economist and I already have staked my reputation on Bitcoin.

Okay, then who are you?  Are you a professor?  Where are you published?  And in what way have you publicly supported Bitcoin?

Jon Matonis  http://twitter.com/#!/jonmatonis

Former CEO of Hushmail and Chief Forex Dealer at VISA.

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/


He is a huge supporter of bitcoin. You should follow him on twitter imo.
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April 14, 2011, 10:52:33 AM
 #34

Creighto,

Please see my recent presentation at Gibraltar conference where bitcoin was presented to the Prime Minister of Gibraltar and the leading eGaming companies in attendance.  FYI, Gibraltar is the world capital for online gambling companies and it is the country's #1 industry.

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/03/monetising-game-play-on-social-network.html
(the bitcoin section begins on page 11.)

My other "pre-bitcoin", Chaumian-type cryptocurrency work was completed during my tenure at VeriSign, Inc. where I was employed after VISA. One such 1995 piece was published by both the London School of Economics and the Libertarian Alliance:

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2009/05/london-school-of-economics-publishes.html
(please note that this early digital cash work was subsequently referenced in a leading Economics textbook)

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn063.pdf


Founding Director, Bitcoin Foundation
I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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April 14, 2011, 03:43:02 PM
 #35

Creighto,

Please see my recent presentation at Gibraltar conference where bitcoin was presented to the Prime Minister of Gibraltar and the leading eGaming companies in attendance.  FYI, Gibraltar is the world capital for online gambling companies and it is the country's #1 industry.

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/03/monetising-game-play-on-social-network.html
(the bitcoin section begins on page 11.)

My other "pre-bitcoin", Chaumian-type cryptocurrency work was completed during my tenure at VeriSign, Inc. where I was employed after VISA. One such 1995 piece was published by both the London School of Economics and the Libertarian Alliance:

http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2009/05/london-school-of-economics-publishes.html
(please note that this early digital cash work was subsequently referenced in a leading Economics textbook)

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn063.pdf



Outstanding!  I stand corrected.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 14, 2011, 04:14:42 PM
 #36

Please see my recent presentation at Gibraltar conference where bitcoin was presented to the Prime Minister of Gibraltar and the leading eGaming companies in attendance.  FYI, Gibraltar is the world capital for online gambling companies and it is the country's #1 industry.

This is really cool.
How well did you think the politicians of Gibraltar received the idea of bitcoin? Do you think Gibraltar might eventually apply for what is said here? If online gambling is the country main industry, I suppose they have interest in it... but I wonder how strong can international "diplomacy" be over these tiny countries...

It's not very clear to me how independent Gilbraltar is from UK, though. Actually before you saying they have a prime-minister, I thought they were technically just like a UK city overseas.
Does financial laws from UK apply in Gibraltar?

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April 14, 2011, 10:20:36 PM
 #37

I have not been able to input early in the game, and I accept if this is too late.

What could be really very helpful for the bitcoin economy at this stage is attracting more investors.

A simple stand alone video or a part in the above discussed video that is transporting this message would be ideal.

A message track could be as follows:

Over the past years, most equity markets have not provided significant yields any more. For instance, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is down -14% vs. its high in 2007. And even worse, due to currency devaluation and deflation the stock markets are down -50 to -70% when measured in "real money": Gold.

Bitcoin is the new Gold 2.0 with even more advantages:
1) Bitcoin has grown over 3000% percent in the last 15 months, and is only bound to increase further since supply is fundamentally limited. 
2) Bitcoin is better divisible as Gold and can hence be used for payments.

etc. ...

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Always do your own due diligence & consult your financial advisor. Never invest unless you can afford to lose your entire investment.

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April 15, 2011, 02:21:33 AM
 #38

I'd like to see a video targeted towards left-leaning people that argues from their world-view-- why the existing monetary system is unfair and benefits a rich elite at the expense of the working masses.  How Bitcoin can change that and be a People-Powered money, backed not by empty promises from rich bankers but by the strength and trust of the person-to-person Bitcoin Community.  How friends and neighbors using Bitcoin can keep money in local communities.  How using Bitcoin lets you interact with people all over the world, promoting peace and understanding.  How it is better for the environment than gold mining or trucking coins and cash to and from stores and banks.

Reddit and Slashdot would LOVE this video lol.
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April 16, 2011, 05:45:18 AM
 #39

Please see my recent presentation at Gibraltar conference where bitcoin was presented to the Prime Minister of Gibraltar and the leading eGaming companies in attendance.  FYI, Gibraltar is the world capital for online gambling companies and it is the country's #1 industry.

This is really cool.
How well did you think the politicians of Gibraltar received the idea of bitcoin? Do you think Gibraltar might eventually apply for what is said here? If online gambling is the country main industry, I suppose they have interest in it... but I wonder how strong can international "diplomacy" be over these tiny countries...

It's not very clear to me how independent Gilbraltar is from UK, though. Actually before you saying they have a prime-minister, I thought they were technically just like a UK city overseas.
Does financial laws from UK apply in Gibraltar?

The attendees came from various places (i.e., Malta, Isle of Man, Ireland, UK, Bulgaria, etc) but they were all involved at some level in the online gaming industry. A member of the EU, Gibraltar has its own constitution and governs its own affairs via its own elected parliament. The independent judicial system of Gibraltar is modeled on the common laws of England & Wales which is seen as a benefit in business dealings (compared to Panama or Costa Rica for instance). Financial law follows the EU and the UK, but having said that Gibraltar has been very effective at leveraging the recent e-money legislation and e-money companies do quite well in Gib. Several have been set up and they are permitted to issue VISA and Mastercard prepaid cards without having a full bank license which is required in the US.

I wouldn't get too hopeful though about any country formally embracing bitcoin because they all still answer to OECD/FATF and Know-Your-Customer anti-money laundering laws (you would almost have to go Libya or Iran if you wanted to ignore OECD/FATF). Considerable pressure still comes from the US government on these matters and online gambling companies respect the US law of not allowing US players.

The bottom line is that the attendees do not seem to perceive the payment method as a "competitive advantage" so they happily receive the other fee-based payment alternatives.  They tend to focus more on the competition for eyeballs and affiliates feeding them traffic so in many ways it resembles the economics of online porn.

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I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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April 18, 2011, 05:00:30 PM
 #40

. . .  I think conservatives will find reasons to hate bitcoin, but liberals might be convinced to love it . . .

Nobody jumped up to argue this point, so I guess I will volunteer. It's time to out myself:

I am absurdly, offensively conservative. Take all the most hated stereotypes of conservatives, then exaggerate them, and that is me. I'm the guy who will talk your ear off about Jesus, vote against abortion, gay marriage, gambling, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, adult businesses, etc and generally try to ruin people's fun any way I can. I take my family to church every Sunday, and I teach my kids about heaven and hell. I like my food with a side of hormones, pesticides, and genetic engineering, and I like it as cheap as possible. (I'm not interested in arguing about any of these things - I'm just trying to establish my credentials)

If a Jesus-freak like me can love bitcoins, then being conservative is no barrier.

I recognize that bitcoins can enable many forms of evil, but then, so can cash. Bitcoins are unbelievably useful, and like the internet, there will be both very good and very evil things that come out of that utility. I predict that in addition to laundering money and buying drugs, bitcoins will be used for some things that both libertarians and liberals will absolutely abhor (what if some evil jerk conservative puts a bounty on getting an abortion clinic shut down?). There are many things that I abhor (like child pornography and human trafficking) that will obviously use bitcoins too, but law enforcement will just have to adapt, because bitcoins (or something like them) are the inevitable future IMHO.


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