Solar panels set to be mandatory on all new buildings under EU plan

[Ebede]

Doesn't it seem strange to you that solar panels are being talked about right now? At the time when today's conflict between the USA and Russia takes place? Last year, everyone was calmly ill with covid and everyone was an excellent virologist. This year, all the people around suddenly became international economists. Last year, everyone was fine and quiet in the queue for gas to Russia, and this suited everyone. Doesn't it feel like we're being manipulated? And what will happen tomorrow? What is the new topic of discussion?

Solar panels are the need of the time. Its the future, those who have taken the right decision at the right time are the real heros.
We have not done that till now. And we strongly repent. Now we all are planning to get a solar panal for our homes. That is the only solution for power outage.

solar panel is expensive in some countries because it lacks and it'll give a constant power supply in any household so solar energy is good electricity supplier when you have the money two by two regional one so the future is changing and no one is making use of plan that is known as electricity generator in his house. Because solar energy supply light without noise why generator supply light with noise pollution so people prefer using solar energy most at times Rich people

[TheGreatPython]

I think that ain’t too bad, 5 panels could cost a bit when you are starting out, but from what I understand you are not going to spend another single dime on it ever again? So, your mining would forever be free? If that is the case, that initial start-up cost could be awesome.

I know a guy who does mining (gpu) in a small shed like stuff but he maxed out, he has like 200 gpu's inside that small shed, did it like that because he had a HUGE fan type of thing that cools it, hence if it is small enough, it would be easier to cool it as well, it’s not a freezer type of cold, but it is quite cold, like you wouldn't be able to live in that cold, it’s quite bad (well good for the machines). So, if he put some solars on top of it as well, that means this dude would get wealthy without spending another dime on it ever again?

That is basically what the crypto part is all about, you could do that, and for the housing it would not be bad neither. When the miners were asked to go on full solar panel or any renewable energy in Europe, people went mad and talked about all the other places that use energy a lot more.

But, the reality is that EU is trying to turn everything into renewable energy, especially after this Russia stuff they really want to do that. This here showing how they are making solar panels mandatory in new buildings shows that it is not just about crypto or miners, it's about the fact that everything new should go that direction and this is a proof that they are not anti-crypto, they are pro-renewable energy.

[Naficopa]

Doesn't it seem strange to you that solar panels are being talked about right now? At the time when today's conflict between the USA and Russia takes place? Last year, everyone was calmly ill with covid and everyone was an excellent virologist. This year, all the people around suddenly became international economists. Last year, everyone was fine and quiet in the queue for gas to Russia, and this suited everyone. Doesn't it feel like we're being manipulated? And what will happen tomorrow? What is the new topic of discussion?

Solar panels are the need of the time. Its the future, those who have taken the right decision at the right time are the real heros.
We have not done that till now. And we strongly repent. Now we all are planning to get a solar panal for our homes. That is the only solution for power outage.

solar panel is expensive in some countries because it lacks and it'll give a constant power supply in any household so solar energy is good electricity supplier when you have the money two by two regional one so the future is changing and no one is making use of plan that is known as electricity generator in his house. Because solar energy supply light without noise why generator supply light with noise pollution so people prefer using solar energy most at times Rich people

In our country it was not that expensive two years ago .. now it is again getting expensive - - and also there is more need of solar panel because our region is very hot and we need air conditioning for approx 4/5 month a year. So investing in solar system is a very good option. The sooner the better.

[LUCKMCFLY]

You guys are missing the bigger picture. Solar panels have the variable cause the dependent on the sun lit in its way to provide power. This makes it become tricky to make it an energy source for stable 24/7/365 day, all season in EU country. The movement or green deal behind it quite not close to what it stood since waste from the battery, from the used panels, from maintaining upkeep doesn't worth what it can give back. I rather have EU haste its plan to renew and build the new nuclear plants.

But in countries which have hot weather and the sun is up for approx 12 hours a day installing solar panels is a very good investment.
In subcontinent - particularly in India - the gov is providing subsidy for installation of solar panels. And also it is good for the those who consume lot of electricity. Those who made investment in early days have made decision.

This initiative of having solar panels is very good because it would be using clean energy, and it would be a good additional support for the normal energy consumption that exists depending on the country, where I live, electricity is generated by hydroelectric and thermoelectric power, I know that others countries use nuclear energy, which is the cheapest energy but it represents a great environmental danger, however for us in my country, acquiring solar panels is a very large investment, if the EU has a certain type of help for its inhabitants of Acquiring cheaper solar panels would not be bad, it would be helping the planet, I do not see it wrong, in any event it is good to have these backup systems.

[Argoo]

Humanity has long needed to pay close attention to alternative energy sources. But those forces that controlled the extraction of oil and gas by all possible methods prevented this. Only the fact that oil and gas remained in the fields for only a few decades allowed us to tackle this long overdue problem.
Of course, it is necessary not only to improve solar panels, but also to constantly look for opportunities to acquire knowledge of the use of other alternative sources of "green" energy. The decision of European countries on the mandatory installation of solar panels on the roofs of new buildings is very timely. It must be taken into account that their profitability and efficiency will constantly increase.

[DrBeer]

Let's count the real data. My average monthly electricity consumption is approximately 710-730 kWh.
This is approximately 24 kWh per day. Like a lot. But I do not consume gas, hot water. The apartment (approximately 120 sq. m.) is all powered by electricity - a boiler, an oven, a microwave oven, a hob, a refrigerator, a washing machine, TVs, a robot vacuum cleaner, several air conditioners and much more.
In total, I need 24 kW / h (this is the maximum value, because in summer consumption drops to about 530-550 kW / h). Or 24 / 8 (daytime hours) = 3 kWh. Now we have available the simplest single-crystal panels British Solar BS-535M-110, this is about 500 W / h at a price of 8300 UAH / 35 (dollar exchange rate) = 237 dollars. To fully cover the need - I need 6 of them. Let 2 more - to compensate for losses and other things. Total 8 x $237 = $1900. Plus additional lubrication - about another 1,500 dollars. Total - 3400 dollars. This is 3400 * 35 = 119000 UAH.
Average cost of electricity consumption = 1250 UAH/month. (again, I take the winter period, the price of 1 kW / h  = 1.68 UAH)
Now we consider the payback: 119000/1250/12. It turns out approximately ... 7 years and 9 months.
BUT ! This is a calculation with maximum performance and a noticeable power margin, and secondly, there are state programs that allow you to save up to 50% of equipment costs. The total payback of the project in reality will be approximately 3 years. It seems like a long time, but .. But it pays off, in a quite sane time, and then you just save.

PS. Obviously, someone will ask the question - "where do you hang them in a multi-apartment house ?!", and look slyly I answer - the format of the panels allows them to be fixed on a common roof!

[bakasabo]

What about countries that dont have any state support programs ? For example there is none in my country. I have already calculated, that it takes 8 years minimum to start getting profit from solar panel installment. 8 years is a lot. I dont think people even live more than 10 years in one flat, but those who do, usually are middle class or those who think 1000 times if they can afford to spend that much to install solar panels.

[Spontaneous]

    I think it's really goods idea that solar panel will be mandatory, but sad thing is some people can't afford to install solar panel because of to much high cost but otherwise they can save and help the ecosystem. More people planning to have a solar panel cause it really use specially having a typhoon an we can not deny that there's an electric interruption, so to those people who had an solar they will be lucky that they still able to use electricity using solar panel.

[DrBeer]

What about countries that dont have any state support programs ? For example there is none in my country. I have already calculated, that it takes 8 years minimum to start getting profit from solar panel installment. 8 years is a lot. I dont think people even live more than 10 years in one flat, but those who do, usually are middle class or those who think 1000 times if they can afford to spend that much to install solar panels.

I agree - not everywhere there are comfortable financial conditions and state support. But conceptually - this technology, in the near future, will become available to a wider population, both in terms of availability, price, and ease of construction. I am very sorry that in your country the state has not yet come to understand that it is necessary to diversify energy sources, including through private solar "stations". I am sure that either the state will soon come to this, or private suppliers of solar panels will offer convenient financial programs - this is a natural development of the market.

[Sithara007]

solar panel is expensive in some countries because it lacks and it'll give a constant power supply in any household so solar energy is good electricity supplier when you have the money two by two regional one so the future is changing and no one is making use of plan that is known as electricity generator in his house. Because solar energy supply light without noise why generator supply light with noise pollution so people prefer using solar energy most at times Rich people

The problem is not with solar panels, but with the battery to store the electricity. The main issue here is that solar panels generate power only during day time. And the peak electricity usage comes in the night time. So there is a requirement to store electricity. And batteries that are needed here can be expensive, needs constant maintenance and need to be replaced every 3-4 years. And during the last one or two years, the battery prices have gone over the roof, due to the rising prices of raw materials such as Lithium, Nickel and Cobalt. 

[DrBeer]

solar panel is expensive in some countries because it lacks and it'll give a constant power supply in any household so solar energy is good electricity supplier when you have the money two by two regional one so the future is changing and no one is making use of plan that is known as electricity generator in his house. Because solar energy supply light without noise why generator supply light with noise pollution so people prefer using solar energy most at times Rich people

The problem is not with solar panels, but with the battery to store the electricity. The main issue here is that solar panels generate power only during day time. And the peak electricity usage comes in the night time. So there is a requirement to store electricity. And batteries that are needed here can be expensive, needs constant maintenance and need to be replaced every 3-4 years. And during the last one or two years, the battery prices have gone over the roof, due to the rising prices of raw materials such as Lithium, Nickel and Cobalt. 

And where did you get the information that batteries for solar systems need to be changed every 3-4 years?
When I was considering a project for my country house, I planned to use AGM type batteries (for use in regular and long-term deep discharge mode). We produce in Ukraine, at a very reasonable price. At the same time, the battery has an estimated service life of 18 years in buffer mode. Accumulators type SMG Solar OPzV (factory "VLADAR"). 18 years old, but not 3-4 years old!

[stompix]

The problem is not with solar panels, but with the battery to store the electricity. The main issue here is that solar panels generate power only during day time. And the peak electricity usage comes in the night time.

Are you trying to break a record on how many times can you be wrong on a forum?
In what galaxy is the peak electricity usage at night?



Every state despite being 3000 km north or south uses nearly the same pattern, and I don't think 6 PM means nighttime anywhere!

And batteries that are needed here can be expensive, needs constant maintenance and need to be replaced every 3-4 years. And during the last one or two years, the battery prices have gone over the roof, due to the rising prices of raw materials such as Lithium, Nickel and Cobalt.

Irrelevant, if you would have actually read the proposal it doesn't say at any point any of the buildings should be off-grid.

What about countries that dont have any state support programs ?

Simple, it will not be mandatory! We're talking about an EU program here!
It's like saying that Germany will ban ICE from 2050 and you come and ask what would Uganda do!

[amishmanish]

Its a really good move, we need to achieve global warming goals. Else the picture of global warming effects is really scary. However there is a need to make these panels hailstorm proof. I had few solar panels installed at my home, they got damaged in hailstorm. is there a way to make them work again?

[bakasabo]

Its a really good move, we need to achieve global warming goals. Else the picture of global warming effects is really scary. However there is a need to make these panels hailstorm proof. I had few solar panels installed at my home, they got damaged in hailstorm. is there a way to make them work again?

I think some sections of solar panels can be removed and replaced, but it will be need to remove whole panel from the roof and transport it, as I doubt that such replacement manipulations can be made on the roof and on the place. But I think then can withstand minor hailstorm, because while installing workers walk on them. In the internet I've found that "it’s best to avoid putting more than fifty pounds of weight on each square foot", so they are not as fragile as glass. I think a lot depends on a hailstorm, if the hail is the size of a baseball, then it sure will take some damage.

[DrBeer]

The problem is not with solar panels, but with the battery to store the electricity. The main issue here is that solar panels generate power only during day time. And the peak electricity usage comes in the night time.

Are you trying to break a record on how many times can you be wrong on a forum?
In what galaxy is the peak electricity usage at night?



Every state despite being 3000 km north or south uses nearly the same pattern, and I don't think 6 PM means nighttime anywhere!

And batteries that are needed here can be expensive, needs constant maintenance and need to be replaced every 3-4 years. And during the last one or two years, the battery prices have gone over the roof, due to the rising prices of raw materials such as Lithium, Nickel and Cobalt.

Irrelevant, if you would have actually read the proposal it doesn't say at any point any of the buildings should be off-grid.

What about countries that dont have any state support programs ?

Simple, it will not be mandatory! We're talking about an EU program here!
It's like saying that Germany will ban ICE from 2050 and you come and ask what would Uganda do!

Not everyone has the goal of having a conceptual dialogue. Some want everyone to know that "solar panels are crap", and "expensive", that "wind stations prevent earthworms from sleeping", that tide stations ... tide stations .... Here's another propaganda of black slurry sellers, nothing came up with, but soon we will hear groans that "because of them, the Gulf Stream will break and everyone will freeze, so urgently buy gas only from us, and at $ 10,000,000 per cubic meter"

[stompix]

~

Not everyone has the goal of having a conceptual dialogue. Some want everyone to know that "solar panels are crap", and "expensive", that "wind stations prevent earthworms from sleeping", that tide stations ... tide stations .... Here's another propaganda of black slurry sellers, nothing came up with, but soon we will hear groans that "because of them, the Gulf Stream will break and everyone will freeze, so urgently buy gas only from us, and at $ 10,000,000 per cubic meter"

Well depends, and you know it because we had this discussion a few months ago
I'm on the same page, as I still believe that solar panels for the industry are crap, but when it comes to households things change dramatically as :


the energy consumption during the night is below 20% of the average. So if you have a 10kwh consumption per 24h, then you will need only 2kwh worth of storage for each night, or...even better, let the grid that is already showing downtrends take care of it and balance.
For the industry, for countries that can't get more than 4 hours of sun on average is still crap.

Wind stations tend to be more reliable as wind patterns are far clearer but still lack the uptime needed, so again I don't think that any of those two are solutions on their own, the only clean solution is to use pump storage facilities, but even those are limited by geographical reasons.

So while I do believe solar will manage to make a dent in peak consumption and they are offering a solution for stuff that works during the day, like public service buildings that open at 11:58 and close at 11:59  with an afternoon break between, nuclear is the only choice of reliable 24/7 energy that can be used anywhere, literally anywhere! So don't give the Chornobyl reply on this, nor the 8grade Mercalli earthquake and tsunami of Fukushima since Germany has experienced the last major earthquake in 1756.

Sun and wind without a backup solution are not going to fix anything at a national scale, they still need a reliable continuous source, and that is only nuclear.
Of course, this doesn't mean I'm ok with burning gas for electricity, this is the worse compromise that leads nowhere in my opinion.

[be.open]

..
Sun and wind without a backup solution are not going to fix anything at a national scale, they still need a reliable continuous source, and that is only nuclear.
..

Perhaps this is the first reasonable thought in your performance among the muddy streams of Russophobia and your usual nonsense. Congratulations, you are not hopeless.

[coupable]

A late step, but a good one anyway. The main problem, in my opinion, is the inability of these solar panels to meet the demand, and therefore power generators will not be completely dispensed with. In addition, the cost of installing these panels is relatively high compared to the benefit that will result from them. In my opinion, this decision is insufficient and requires a state support fund to be fully utilized.

[DrBeer]

Well depends, and you know it because we had this discussion a few months ago
I'm on the same page, as I still believe that solar panels for the industry are crap, but when it comes to households things change dramatically as :


the energy consumption during the night is below 20% of the average. So if you have a 10kwh consumption per 24h, then you will need only 2kwh worth of storage for each night, or...even better, let the grid that is already showing downtrends take care of it and balance.
For the industry, for countries that can't get more than 4 hours of sun on average is still crap.

Wind stations tend to be more reliable as wind patterns are far clearer but still lack the uptime needed, so again I don't think that any of those two are solutions on their own, the only clean solution is to use pump storage facilities, but even those are limited by geographical reasons.

So while I do believe solar will manage to make a dent in peak consumption and they are offering a solution for stuff that works during the day, like public service buildings that open at 11:58 and close at 11:59  with an afternoon break between, nuclear is the only choice of reliable 24/7 energy that can be used anywhere, literally anywhere! So don't give the Chornobyl reply on this, nor the 8grade Mercalli earthquake and tsunami of Fukushima since Germany has experienced the last major earthquake in 1756.

Sun and wind without a backup solution are not going to fix anything at a national scale, they still need a reliable continuous source, and that is only nuclear.
Of course, this doesn't mean I'm ok with burning gas for electricity, this is the worse compromise that leads nowhere in my opinion.

I absolutely agree that at this stage in the development of solar cell technology, for INDUSTRIAL use, this is not a suitable technology. Well, or for a very small range of tasks.

But they did not set a goal - to replace industrial nuclear power plants, which can generate a given amount of energy 24 * 7. But for households - the ideal solution for today. I hope to soon return to the construction of a country house, and yet I am implementing a model with a complete rejection of industrial electricity in it due to alternative energy sources.
Also, these solutions (solar energy) solve the issue of social needs quite well (for example, lighting of streets, houses, irrigation systems, etc.). There is also no need for 24 * 7 work, and energy consumption is not industrial scale. But all this together will give a fairly noticeable effect in terms of reducing the load on industrial stations, and reducing the cost of maintaining households.

[bakasabo]

This weekend I've visited company that offers solar panels installment and maintenance and asked several questions. It turned out (maybe this is applicable only to my country) I cant switch off from local electricity lined completely. I still have to pay things like "Transmission and distribution services" and "Mandatory procurement component" (I dont know to translate it correctly, but I have this in my bill).

Either I did not understand fully what they said, but from what I understand is that I cant put a box in my garage that will store electricity. All the generated and unused energy I must transmit (sell) to local company, they will sell and send me money, but the amount will be lower than monthly my "Transmission and distribution services", because they sell it on auction (or market by market price to others), and charge me market price for service.

So far my vision is that solar panels are less profitable than I have expected. The real payback point is even larger than I have expected.