[POLL] DT2 Status; how many net inclusions should it take?

[PrimeNumber7]

There is one thing you are leaving out -- the underlying reason why someone has this power is that many people have included the person in their trust list. Those who are on DT1 is (somewhat) random, and does rotate, however the people who are on DT1 are not arbitrary, they have effectively been chosen by the community to have this power.

Indeed, they have been chosen by a very small minority of the community:

I no longer have a database of forum posts, so I cannot answer these questions.

Of the 133 people who are eligible to be on DT1, how many people included them on their trust lists that have 10/100 merit (how many people actually played a role in selecting those eligible to be on DT1)? Of those who potentially can play a role in selecting who is on DT1, how many people have no one on their trust list who is eligible for DT1? How many people who are potentially able to play a role in selecting DT1 have a trust list, but no one on their trust list is eligible for DT1? How many accounts are actually active by various metrics (such as making a post in the last 60 days, logging in during the last 60 days, etc).

As I said, I don't know the answer to the above questions. But I do think the answers will give context to assertations that a "very small minority" of the community selects DT1. The headline number of users is obviously inflated due to spam bots, and inactive users.

[1714924958]

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[1714924958]

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[LoyceV]

There is one thing you are leaving out -- the underlying reason why someone has this power is that many people have included the person in their trust list. Those who are on DT1 is (somewhat) random, and does rotate, however the people who are on DT1 are not arbitrary, they have effectively been chosen by the community to have this power.

Indeed, they have been chosen by a very small minority of the community

Just 10 people (with some earned Merit) is enough to put someone on DT1, after which they can create as many DT2-members as they want, or downvote all other DT1-members.

Of the 133 people who are eligible to be on DT1, how many people included them on their trust lists that have 10/100 merit (how many people actually played a role in selecting those eligible to be on DT1)?

The requirements are 250 Merit for a "supervote", 100 isn't enough.

Of those who potentially can play a role in selecting who is on DT1, how many people have no one on their trust list who is eligible for DT1?

I never checked, but (using data from a week ago), there are 811 users who've earned at least 250 Merit, and 11,650 users who've earned 10 or more.

How many people who are potentially able to play a role in selecting DT1 have a trust list, but no one on their trust list is eligible for DT1? How many accounts are actually active by various metrics (such as making a post in the last 60 days, logging in during the last 60 days, etc).

I can't answer all your questions, but 3 years ago I made my DT1-election: Rank up pipeline: loyce.club/trust/ranking/ shows that 477 users are included by at least one user with 10 or more earned Merit. Those at the bottom of that list are very far from reaching DT1, but 219 users have enough inclusions from users with enough Merit to qualify for DT1.

[DireWolfM14]

There is one thing you are leaving out -- the underlying reason why someone has this power is that many people have included the person in their trust list. Those who are on DT1 is (somewhat) random, and does rotate, however the people who are on DT1 are not arbitrary, they have effectively been chosen by the community to have this power.

Indeed, they have been chosen by a very small minority of the community

Just 10 people (with some earned Merit) is enough to put someone on DT1, after which they can create as many DT2-members as they want, or downvote all other DT1-members.

The threshold to qualify for the lottery is also rather low, I agree.  One battle at a time, however. 

Of the 133 people who are eligible to be on DT1, how many people included them on their trust lists that have 10/100 merit (how many people actually played a role in selecting those eligible to be on DT1)?

The requirements are 250 Merit for a "supervote", 100 isn't enough.

I wouldn't mind seeing the "supervote" go away and have the merit threshold for voting raised to 100.  It's been four years since the introduction of the merit system and I think enough merits have been passed around by now to justify it.

there are 811 users who've earned at least 250 Merit, and 11,650 users who've earned 10 or more.

That's actually not as many earners of 250 merits as I would have thought.  Can I trouble you to scrape the number of users who've earned 100 or more?

How many people who are potentially able to play a role in selecting DT1 have a trust list, but no one on their trust list is eligible for DT1? How many accounts are actually active by various metrics (such as making a post in the last 60 days, logging in during the last 60 days, etc).

I can't answer all your questions, but 3 years ago I made my DT1-election: Rank up pipeline: loyce.club/trust/ranking/ shows that 477 users are included by at least one user with 10 or more earned Merit. Those at the bottom of that list are very far from reaching DT1, but 219 users have enough inclusions from users with enough Merit to qualify for DT1.

Since there were 133 members who were included in the lottery, is it safe to assume the remaining 86 haven't built their trust lists?

[LoyceV]

there are 811 users who've earned at least 250 Merit, and 11,650 users who've earned 10 or more.

That's actually not as many earners of 250 merits as I would have thought.  Can I trouble you to scrape the number of users who've earned 100 or more?

Click the link and scroll down: 1640 users earned 100 or more Merits.

Since there were 133 members who were included in the lottery, is it safe to assume the remaining 86 haven't built their trust lists?

No, I check for that. But I don't check if someone was online in the past 3 days, nor if they posted in the past 30 days. And votes are limited, so if for example one user with 500 earned Merits votes for 4 people, only 2 of them actually get a "supervote".
And a few users are blacklisted from DT1.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

How about inclusion or exclusion of no longer actively DT1 members?

Time can change and scam accusations can be handled or be proven as real scam. So if an exclusion is because of temporary scam accusation, then a DT1 member passed away, what will happen if that scam accusation later will be handled and it will be no longer a scam.

Like Zepher, TMAN, Lauda. Their trust list (inclusion or exclusion) will affect others.

Does theymos exclude inactive members from his trust list (DT1 list)?

[LoyceV]

How about inclusion or exclusion of no longer actively DT1 members?

If they're inactive, they won't reach DT1 anymore.
Exclusions don't matter for the DT1-election, only inclusions.

a DT1 member passed away, what will happen if that scam accusation later will be handled and it will be no longer a scam.

I think you mean DT2 members, those don't have an activity requirement.

Like Zepher, TMAN, Lauda. Their trust list (inclusion or exclusion) will affect others.

Their inclusions can still vote in the DT1-election, but their exclusions only matter to people who have them on their Trust list.

Does theymos exclude inactive members from his trust list (DT1 list)?

Being active in the past 30 days is a requirement to reach DT1.

400 years from now, thousands of dead people will include thousands of dead people on their Trust lists. And people on other planets will read back the posts from Bitcoin's early days. LoyceV says hi!

[Timelord2067]

Is it the case that a person has to "trust" ten UID's to included in the monthly raffle, or ten UID's that trust them (with 10/250 merit as the case may be) - (or a combination of both)? ^{(Not including the other things like online activity prior to the raffle etc)}

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I voted ‘3 or more DT1 inclusions’ simply because the harder it is to get on default trust, theoretically at least, it lessens the chances of abuse in the trust system.

Getting on default trust by having 1 DT1 inclusion is wide open to abuse & not good enough imo.

[Timelord2067]

Here's where we are at this month:

https://loyce.club/trust/2022-07-09_Sat_05.08h/54791.html (Week 182) - NOTE non DT1 UID's have been removed to enable context to be seen clearly.

Trust list for: Dabs (Trust: +30 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 890 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2022-07-09_Sat_05.08h)
Back to index

Dabs Trusts these users' judgement:
1. theymos (Trust: +28 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (57) 8708 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

38. SFR10 (Trust: +18 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1673 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

45. julerz12 (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 435 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)



Dabs's judgement is Trusted by:
1. Removed theymos (Trust: +28 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (57) 8708 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

20. NeuroticFish (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 3600 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

29. BitcoinGirl.Club (Trust: +1 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (0) 1082 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

44. GreatArkansas (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 1144 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
45. sheenshane (Trust: +4 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1021 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~Dabs's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. shitaifan2013 (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. nutildah (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 4310 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. tmfp (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (735 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. be.open (Trust: +0 / =2 / -5) (DT1 (-9) 478 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. Sancho18 (Trust: +0 / =1 / -3) (118 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. sne.su (Trust: +0 / =2 / -5) (4 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. NEW DireWolfM14 (Trust: +21 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (14) 2991 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Trust list: backscratchers: users agree, they trust or distrust each other.
Trust list: backstabbers: users disagree, one user trust the other, while the other distrust him.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

Such are the nuances of the DT system (such as it is) were @BitcoinGirl.Club to remove their DT trust in Dabs, Dabs would then be at DT1 (0) given theymos has seemingly become aware of this issue.

Dabs' only two users they trust that are on DT1 ( @SFR10 and @julerz12 ) are both Known Alts Investigators and it would be interesting to get their thoughts on the whole Dabs DT trusts the very users who then gave positive trust feedback for escrow related services up to the point Dabs seems to have no longer been an escrow in 2018.

The between a rock and a hard place for julerz12 would be that their only DT1 vote is from Dabs.  Should they "distrust" Dabs, then Dabs could (probably) then remove julerz12 from DT1 by removing their trust.

OP: Has anyone tried to reach out to @NeuroticFish, @GreatArkansas or @sheenshane for their thoughts given their trust of Dabs' judgement is why we are here in this thread?


Interesting also to see be.open ( DT1) and their known alt sne.su both distrust Dabs.   

...but why is Dabs staying silent?

[DireWolfM14]

~

I get the feeling you're missing one small factor; no DT1 inclusions are required for a member to remain on DT1, a net score of 0 is all that's needed.  A member could have the required number of votes and be selected through the lottery process without having a single DT1 inclusion (or exclusions, of course.)

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Such are the nuances of the DT system (such as it is) were @BitcoinGirl.Club to remove their DT trust in Dabs, Dabs would then be at DT1 (0) given theymos has seemingly become aware of this issue.

I should have done this few days ago when LoyceV was taking about inclusion from theymos but now it's done. Considering the overall situation I think for me right now a "~" for Dabs is appropriate.

400 years from now, thousands of dead people will include thousands of dead people on their Trust lists. And people on other planets will read back the posts from Bitcoin's early days. LoyceV says hi!

In 400 years there will be thousands or at-least millions? 🤣

[NeuroticFish]

Has anyone tried to reach out to @NeuroticFish

Posting my name usually does the job
I've removed him, for now, from my list. If I get to properly read that topic about him and properly check the info, I will consider ~, but not right now.

[DireWolfM14]

Has anyone tried to reach out to @NeuroticFish

Posting my name usually does the job
I've removed him, for now, from my list. If I get to properly read that topic about him and properly check the info, I will consider ~, but not right now.

Hopefully that won't be necessary.  If theymos is willing to modify the requirements for DT2 according to the recommendations with the most votes, then it's not going to be an issue in the near future.  I hated to have to exclude him myself, I don't know him well enough to specifically distrust his judgement, but his use of the trust system is obviously self-serving. 

[Timelord2067]

Hopefully that won't be necessary.  If theymos is willing to modify the requirements for DT2 according to the recommendations with the most votes, then it's not going to be an issue in the near future.  I hated to have to exclude him myself, I don't know him well enough to specifically distrust his judgement, but his use of the trust system is obviously self-serving. 

Accordingly, Dabs has dropped from 20^th to 37^th on BPIP's "most recognised" list.