Problem with Freebitco.in Provably Fair Engine

[seoincorporation]

There is a problem with this site provably fair engine and i would like to talk about it with the community.

The provably fair engine works fine, but the fact that they use a new server seed for each bet make the game kind of rigged. The right way to work it is to have a server secret seed and show the hash to the user, and when the user request a new server seed we should be able to see the past one to verify our rolls.

I know we can see the hashed seed from our next bet, but if we don't change the user seed the server will know the result before the roll and that way he could choose if we win or lose on the next rolls, we could get a 'bad streak' generated by the site.

And there is one thing we can do in our side to avoid this to happen, and that's to change the user seed on each bet. But this solution is a complex task for the user if he want to place a big amount of bets. Maybe a betting bot can do this magic.

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[NeuroticFish]

he said that freebitcoin is literally a money printing machine

Use your brain. If this would be for real, in how many days hours minutes would the owner get bankrupt?

He then proceeds to tell me that he wont tell me the seccrets to freebitco until I have one whole bitcoin on there because otherwise ill just loose my money

I have a feeling that you also joined under his ref link, so he was earning money from your every bet and so on. It's a much more reliable way to earn there than betting.

then he made the mistake of showing me a PORTION of his hilo session screen recording. I was like "haha im not supposed to see that its tempting!", then he says "im showing this to motivate you to get one bitcoin onto this platform.

Are you sure this "cousin" is part of the family and it's not just a random youtuber?
I'm asking because it looks like this guy had a very good strategy to get you hooked.

on loose increase bet by 96%

This looks like Martingale to me. A great strategy to make you think you cannot lose, until you get a long enough losing streak and you get burnt big time.

Thoughts? im down 0.12 btc so your feedback, insight, anything would help.

A Hi-Lo game is.. like any casino game. Now think, how many go out richer from a casino?
So you've got hooked to gamble under somebody's ref link. You were amongst the vast majority who's losing in this kind of games. You're amongst the hopefully few who failed to understand that a casino is not charity (and definitely not a money prinitng machine) and you should gamble for fun, not to earn money.

Now, if you'll try to recover those money, the chances are bigger you lose even more. So, if you don't plan to just play small amounts you afford, for having fun, you better give up "earning from hi-lo games" and find yourself more lucrative ways to earn money. Kinda expensive way to learn, you could have been asking first, you would have gotten this lesson for free...

[seoincorporation]

Thoughts? im down 0.12 btc so your feedback, insight, anything would help.

It's gambling mate, and bots can't always win. They will lose in the long run.

I have a feeling that you also joined under his ref link, so he was earning money from your every bet and so on. It's a much more reliable way to earn there than betting.

I have that feeling too...

And if you are under his ref, that means he is making money with your bets, while more you bet more he earns. That's why my advice is to stop chasing your loss, take it as a man, and stop making deposits to that site.

[16xypjnxlrew]

You are absolutely right, their provable fairness system needs to be changed to be similar to the one used on Stake.com. Every time I tell TheQuin that it needs to be changed, but he says that the system is so provably fair that it should never be changed. I suspect that the site has a special script that predicts the behavior of the player and is aimed at losing the player. I recently played with them using x10 multiplier i had over 600 losses in a row, and even after the first win appeared, the next line of losses was over 30 losses

[rhomelmabini]

The provably fair engine works fine, but the fact that they use a new server seed for each bet make the game kind of rigged. The right way to work it is to have a server secret seed and show the hash to the user, and when the user request a new server seed we should be able to see the past one to verify our rolls.

I'm not that familiar with the technicalities of these server seeds or something similar kind of stuff but you're saying it should be automatically  be changed on the player's side everytime for the next bet/s? If it's complex then for sure the alternative to do right now is just to change it on each bet.

Moreover, if used by bots you're at risk for being banned by most casino operators, it's prohibited.

[seoincorporation]

I recently played with them using x10 multiplier i had over 600 losses in a row, and even after the first win appeared, the next line of losses was over 30 losses

600 consecutive loses in x10 is madness... it's like loosing 6 consecutive times on a chance of 99.9% to win. Was you friend playing with random high and low?

I would recommend to play always high or always low.

...
I'm not that familiar with the technicalities of these server seeds or something similar kind of stuff but you're saying it should be automatically  be changed on the player's side everytime for the next bet/s? If it's complex then for sure the alternative to do right now is just to change it on each bet.

What i mean is they have a dynamic Server Seed while a true Provably fair engine has an static and let the users change it when they want.

[STT]

It wouldnt let me set 99% odds but 94% odds I lost twice in 3 attempts so yep my luck sucks I can confirm that much definitively :p


https://ibb.co/xDVTn9n


I would say if OP or similar theories are correct in that this particular site auto / micro  manages people's game luck and is outside of the stated game odds for a surreptitious gain it'd be quite massive.  It wouldn't be too hard to prove and then you have a fairly epic story on one of the biggest gamble, crypto just generally largest internet sites.   Surely we have investigative journalist types looking for a story who would have attempted as much over the years that FBC has been running.
   The industry itself has some interest in making sure the largest players arent swindling people like this, if nothing else if bad behavior is proven and regular then you report and gain that competitors customers.

[rhomelmabini]

What i mean is they have a dynamic Server Seed while a true Provably fair engine has an static and let the users change it when they want.

Thanks for sharing that @seoincorporation. I've been like curious on how a dynamic server works and how provably fair matters: I stumble upon this article here: https://medium.com/@f5.works/introduction-to-provably-fair-f039e241aa2a and more likely it explains here how provably fair really should work, I really like the example here more like ELI5 kind of stuff. A good read.

[Daltonik]

I observe something similar in other online casinos, especially where there is a free spin of the wheel of fortune, as soon as you started spinning, the server already knows what you got and even before the end of the spin, this conditional win is credited to your account, at first I thought it was all about a big ping, but it turned out that it was not so.

[fullhdpixel]

You are absolutely right, their provable fairness system needs to be changed to be similar to the one used on Stake.com. Every time I tell TheQuin that it needs to be changed, but he says that the system is so provably fair that it should never be changed. I suspect that the site has a special script that predicts the behavior of the player and is aimed at losing the player. I recently played with them using x10 multiplier i had over 600 losses in a row, and even after the first win appeared, the next line of losses was over 30 losses

600 losses in a row at 10x multiplier sounds impossible to me already but over 30 losses was still possible as long as it won't cross over 100. You are surprised about the losses that you are getting but you didn't feel the same when your first roll wins?  Maybe not since it was only 10x anyway, not 100x or more multiplier. It's been a long time since my last win on this site and also on stake.

I know that both sites are legit but sometimes I can't help it and think that maybe their fairness have changed. Oh well, maybe it's only just my imagination. I am also gambling rarely now, maybe that's the cause on why I can't win anymore but maybe if I gamble more actively, my chance will greatly increase.

[FatFork]

I observe something similar in other online casinos, especially where there is a free spin of the wheel of fortune, as soon as you started spinning, the server already knows what you got and even before the end of the spin, this conditional win is credited to your account, at first I thought it was all about a big ping, but it turned out that it was not so.

All calculations are done in a fraction of a second when you place your bet or start a spin. Everything else is just a visual representation for a better user experience. The same applies to online roulette games, or for example, crash or plinko games. There's nothing to worry about, that's how it should be. This does not mean that the games are being rigged.

[Saint-loup]

There is a problem with this site provably fair engine and i would like to talk about it with the community.

The provably fair engine works fine, but the fact that they use a new server seed for each bet make the game kind of rigged. The right way to work it is to have a server secret seed and show the hash to the user, and when the user request a new server seed we should be able to see the past one to verify our rolls.

I know we can see the hashed seed from our next bet, but if we don't change the user seed the server will know the result before the roll and that way he could choose if we win or lose on the next rolls, we could get a 'bad streak' generated by the site.

And there is one thing we can do in our side to avoid this to happen, and that's to change the user seed on each bet. But this solution is a complex task for the user if he want to place a big amount of bets. Maybe a betting bot can do this magic.

You can't do big amounts of bets on the free rolls game, you need to wait one hour between each rolls.
And for the hi-lo game what you say can't work because the house can't know if you will choose HI or LO at your next roll.

[khaled0111]

Was you friend playing with random high and low?

I would recommend to play always high or always low.

As long as the multiplier remains the same,  your odds of winning/losing remain the same. It doesn't matter if you bet always on high or low or change it randomly.

And for the hi-lo game what you say can't work because the house can't know if you will choose HI or LO at your next roll.

Am not sure about this! Some gamblers follow predictable patterns when placing bets or use well known strategies (martingale). Am not saying freebitcoin.in are doing this, but analysing the user's gameplay may give the casino an idea on what's the player's next bet is going to be.
What I don't get is why they need to change the server seed for each new bet! Given the reputation of freebitcoin.in, am sure there is a good reason for this.

[alegotardo]

There is a problem with this site provably fair engine and i would like to talk about it with the community.

~snip~

I don't understand much about these technical issues either, but I would ask you if a betting site as traditional and old as Freebitco.in would really put its reputation at risk or attract the distrust of users and could ruin years of hard work, would it?

I'm not trying to defend Freebitco.in, and I believe their technical claims make sense, but I doubt that Freebitco.in could be exploiting this flaw to gain some advantage.

[Saint-loup]

And for the hi-lo game what you say can't work because the house can't know if you will choose HI or LO at your next roll.

Am not sure about this! Some gamblers follow predictable patterns when placing bets or use well known strategies (martingale). Am not saying freebitcoin.in are doing this, but analysing the user's gameplay may give the casino an idea on what's the player's next bet is going to be.
What I don't get is why they need to change the server seed for each new bet! Given the reputation of freebitcoin.in, am sure there is a good reason for this.

The number of players is huge on Freebitco.in, it's way above most of casinos, so I think it would need a big amount of computing resources to assign a specific server seed to each player and letting them changing it whenever they want. Moreover if a player manages to guess his server seed by chance, he will be able to win all his rolls until the next server seed rotation.

[16xypjnxlrew]

600 consecutive loses in x10 is madness... it's like loosing 6 consecutive times on a chance of 99.9% to win. Was you friend playing with random high and low?

I would recommend to play always high or always low.

I would show this whole losing streak, but freebitco.in only keeps a 10-day history of rolls. Why do you think they don't store the entire history of rolls, like stake.com does?

[TheQuin]

And there is one thing we can do in our side to avoid this to happen, and that's to change the user seed on each bet. But this solution is a complex task for the user if he want to place a big amount of bets. Maybe a betting bot can do this magic.

It isn't complex at all. There's a checkbox on the multiply BTC page to randomise the client seed on every roll or if you are playing manually you can simply reload the page.

And for the hi-lo game what you say can't work because the house can't know if you will choose HI or LO at your next roll.

Am not sure about this! Some gamblers follow predictable patterns when placing bets or use well known strategies (martingale). Am not saying freebitcoin.in are doing this, but analysing the user's gameplay may give the casino an idea on what's the player's next bet is going to be.
What I don't get is why they need to change the server seed for each new bet! Given the reputation of freebitcoin.in, am sure there is a good reason for this.

The number of players is huge on Freebitco.in, it's way above most of casinos, so I think it would need a big amount of computing resources to assign a specific server seed to each player and letting them changing it whenever they want. Moreover if a player manages to guess his server seed by chance, he will be able to win all his rolls until the next server seed rotation.

You are spot on with the point that we don't know if you are going to bet hi or lo. We also don't know if you are going to change the client seed or not. Both of those things mean that if we tried to anticipate then someone would work out when we would do it and they'd be guaranteed to win.

Some small sites use a static server seed but you're right that it would be impossible on a site this large. The "computing resources" more specifically disk space required would be astronomical and make the site financially unviable. Most people won't even know what it is and will never reveal their server seed at all meaning would have to store all their rolls for eternity. With over 135 billion rolls so far that would be infeasible.
It's also completely pointless. Both systems perform the function of being provable fair meaning that every player has the opportunity to prove if we cheated or not to themselves. Changing the system just because a handful of customers have a preference isn't a good idea.

I observe something similar in other online casinos, especially where there is a free spin of the wheel of fortune, as soon as you started spinning, the server already knows what you got and even before the end of the spin, this conditional win is credited to your account, at first I thought it was all about a big ping, but it turned out that it was not so.

The server knows the result as soon as it receives your client seed and bet details. On most sites, there's some sort of animation going on to keep you amused while you wait for that information to come back over the internet to you.