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Author Topic: Bitcoin Credit Card Design  (Read 4506 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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January 16, 2012, 02:49:58 PM
 #21

More optimally, merchants would generate a unique per-transaction QR code.  This would enable correct pricing and easy verification of which transaction it was that had just processed.  Per-transaction QRs could be generated on receipt paper (pre-ceipts?  QR billing?) or perhaps even just generated on a screen to be scanned with the customer's mobile device.

This would be the end game.  Using either QR codes and/or NFC the payment terminal (same one you click credit or debit) would provide data on the entire transaction.

This requires acceptance of a standard format which would have at least amount, and payment address but could also provide optional information which could be used by more advanced wallets like transaction time, merchant name, products purchased, digital signature of entire receipt. 

Users receives data (either NFC or by scanning QR code) and then confirms outgoing transaction in smart phone.    Cashier's terminal indicates payment successful just like w/ credit card.

To be "green" potential no paper receipt is needed.  The data sent to wallet could be used as a receipt and provides advantages of security (receipt can't be faked for returns due to digital signature), integration into money management products (imagine Quickbooks for Bitcoin Smiley ), and the ability to make backups of receipts (no more lost receipts).
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Phinnaeus Gage
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January 16, 2012, 03:08:36 PM
 #22

Here's the card design of the future: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=58866.msg694794#msg694794 (by Timbo925)

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January 16, 2012, 10:47:43 PM
 #23

Bitcoin Magnetic Card Designs by DarK_St3alth is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Um, why such a restrictive license. This is an image for a credit card and all derivatives of it are not allowed to be used on a commercial product... so it cannot be used then? Credit cards are commercial products. Why not just say, "I own the copyright"

Please, if you want people to use your stuff, just use the WTFPL license. It is certainly less confusing than all that creative commons nonsense.

http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/

Code:
          DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE
                   Version 2, December 2004

Copyright (C) 2004 Sam Hocevar <sam@hocevar.net>

Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified
copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long
as the name is changed.

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 0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.

If you don't want people to use your stuff, then just say so.

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January 22, 2012, 07:48:57 PM
 #24


This would be the end game.  Using either QR codes and/or NFC the payment terminal (same one you click credit or debit) would provide data on the entire transaction.

This requires acceptance of a standard format which would have at least amount, and payment address but could also provide optional information which could be used by more advanced wallets like transaction time, merchant name, products purchased, digital signature of entire receipt.

For this verbose data, I would simply transmit a URL that would allow the customer to access the transaction online.  The transmitted URL would also be time-sensitive to allow for re-use of QR codes for subsequent transactions by the same merchant.  Ideally the client's app would load the temporary URL, access the transaction record to retrieve the verbose data, and then one of the fields would be a more permanent URL.

Many free URL shorteners can do this part easily, and there's even a QR generation module for Drupal.  No problem there.  Easy to Drupal up a site with the QR codes, loadable and displayable on the merchant's smart phone.

Acceptance of a standard format can be made easy through user adoption; attempting to get something like this established through the providers of those credit-or-debit payment systems may be difficult, and defeat BitCoin's free-as-in-beer strong point.  With just apps for mobile devices, one for customers and one for merchants, the public could and would adopt it easily; all they'd need would be the mobile devices they already have, and the app.  Result: Adoption of the above-mentioned standard format, and increasing abandonment of banks and credit card companies.  I consider this optimal.

Rather than attempt to persuade mainstream terminal providers to adopt an as-yet-unused protocol, it seems preferable to just let users adopt it freely out of convenience.  At that point, terminal providers would just look silly for as long as they refused to catch up.

We may be about ready to crowdsource funding to hire app coders for this open-source project.  Anything else?

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January 23, 2012, 01:33:28 AM
 #25

Are you this guy: http://taenaron.deviantart.com/

If not, how can you CC his wallpaper? lol

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January 23, 2012, 05:04:17 AM
 #26

Now, if you could make a Credit Card do this, you'll be onto something.


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January 23, 2012, 04:54:21 PM
 #27

People, the cell phone is the cc of the future. Credit cards will be moving to it, and bitcoins are already there. The apps need a little work to make them faster at accepting 0-confirm transactions, and maybe a little better for storefront accounting, but really, this is a solved problem.

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January 23, 2012, 05:20:33 PM
 #28

People, the cell phone is the cc of the future. Credit cards will be moving to it, and bitcoins are already there. The apps need a little work to make them faster at accepting 0-confirm transactions, and maybe a little better for storefront accounting, but really, this is a solved problem.
Until they invent a battery-free mobile, plastic will remain.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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Gerald Davis


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January 23, 2012, 05:23:22 PM
 #29

People, the cell phone is the cc of the future. Credit cards will be moving to it, and bitcoins are already there. The apps need a little work to make them faster at accepting 0-confirm transactions, and maybe a little better for storefront accounting, but really, this is a solved problem.
Until they invent a battery-free mobile, plastic will remain.

Except a "debit/credit" bitcoin card won't be magnetic.  At a minimum it likely will need to be a smartcard and preferably one with a display, keypad, and yes battery.
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January 23, 2012, 05:42:56 PM
 #30

People, the cell phone is the cc of the future. Credit cards will be moving to it, and bitcoins are already there. The apps need a little work to make them faster at accepting 0-confirm transactions, and maybe a little better for storefront accounting, but really, this is a solved problem.
Until they invent a battery-free mobile, plastic will remain.

Except a "debit/credit" bitcoin card won't be magnetic.  At a minimum it likely will need to be a smartcard and preferably one with a display, keypad, and yes battery.
So what do you do if on some dark stormy night in the country you run out of gas and your battery goes dead? The unmanned gas station takes credit cards, but you only have a dead Bitcoin Card battery. Will you spend the night in that cabin in the woods while your batter charges?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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January 23, 2012, 05:49:01 PM
 #31

People, the cell phone is the cc of the future. Credit cards will be moving to it, and bitcoins are already there. The apps need a little work to make them faster at accepting 0-confirm transactions, and maybe a little better for storefront accounting, but really, this is a solved problem.
Until they invent a battery-free mobile, plastic will remain.

Except a "debit/credit" bitcoin card won't be magnetic.  At a minimum it likely will need to be a smartcard and preferably one with a display, keypad, and yes battery.
So what do you do if on some dark stormy night in the country you run out of gas and your battery goes dead? The unmanned gas station takes credit cards, but you only have a dead Bitcoin Card battery. Will you spend the night in that cabin in the woods while your batter charges?

What rechargeable battery?  Batteries in smartcards aren't rechargable or replaceable.  They are simply designed to last the life of the card.  I am just pointing out the way that Bitcoin works (private keys) means a Bitcoin card you can swipe is a non-starter.  Maybe systems built on TOP of Bitcoin but not Bitcoin itself.  I mean what exactly are you going to put on the swipe?  Your private key?  So all your wallet funds can be stolen by anyone you purchase something from?

The reality is a BITCOIN mangentic swiped card will never happen.  Now some private network built on top of Bitcoin (think VISA Bitcoin)?  Sure but not Bitcoin itself.  Not unless you think the world will work based on trust and unicorns.

The only SECURELY way to have a Bitcoin POS system is where your device (phone or smartcard) does the SIGNING and the only thing the merchant gets is the signed transaction.

So something like:
1) you owe 1.25 BTC
2) you insert smartcard
3) using a standardized protcol the POS system gives the smartcard the amount and address to pay
4) your smartcard uses its onboard display to show the amount being paid
5) as a security precaution you now enter your PIN on the keypad on the smartcard.
6) the smartcard signs a transactions for the amount and address provided and gives it to the POS system
7) the chashier thanks you, gives you a receipt and you go on your way.

Yes the technology does exist.


Any system where you give the private keys to untrusted parties is worthless.  It will never be adopted because it is trivial to rob someone of all of their assets.
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January 23, 2012, 06:00:11 PM
 #32

People, the cell phone is the cc of the future. Credit cards will be moving to it, and bitcoins are already there. The apps need a little work to make them faster at accepting 0-confirm transactions, and maybe a little better for storefront accounting, but really, this is a solved problem.
Until they invent a battery-free mobile, plastic will remain.

Except a "debit/credit" bitcoin card won't be magnetic.  At a minimum it likely will need to be a smartcard and preferably one with a display, keypad, and yes battery.
So what do you do if on some dark stormy night in the country you run out of gas and your battery goes dead? The unmanned gas station takes credit cards, but you only have a dead Bitcoin Card battery. Will you spend the night in that cabin in the woods while your batter charges?

What rechargeable battery?  Batteries in smartcards aren't rechargable or replaceable.  They are simply designed to last the life of the card.  I am just pointing out the way that Bitcoin works (private keys) means a Bitcoin card you can swipe is a non-starter.  Maybe systems built on TOP of Bitcoin but not Bitcoin itself.  I mean what exactly are you going to put on the swipe?  Your private key?  So all your wallet funds can be stolen by anyone you purchase something from?

The reality is a BITCOIN mangentic swiped card will never happen.  Now some private network built on top of Bitcoin (think VISA Bitcoin)?  Sure but not Bitcoin itself.  Not unless you think the world will work based on trust and unicorns.

The only SECURELY way to have a Bitcoin POS system is where your device (phone or smartcard) does the SIGNING and the only thing the merchant gets is the signed transaction.

So something like:
1) you owe 1.25 BTC
2) you insert smartcard
3) using a standardized protcol the POS system gives the smartcard the amount and address to pay
4) your smartcard uses its onboard display to show the amount being paid
5) as a security precaution you now enter your PIN on the keypad on the smartcard.
6) the smartcard signs a transactions for the amount and address provided and gives it to the POS system
7) the chashier thanks you, gives you a receipt and you go on your way.

Any system where you give the private keys to untrusted parties is worthless.  It will never be adopted because it is trivial to rob someone of all of their assets.

I live in the USA. We don't have these advanced systems yet, though wikipedia explains that every other nation does. Fascinating.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 23, 2012, 07:10:11 PM
 #33

I think for this to work with a minimum of security you would need a trusted third party to also sign the transaction. The third party would only give its signature when the buyer gives his PIN via a terminal. Also the buyer could set daily withdrawal limits via the third party so that in the event the PIN was stolen not everything would be lost.

Also remember, that if the PIN was stolen then the buyer could likely retrace the store the PIN was stolen from, especially if the third party kept a record of locations from where the PIN was entered for a transaction.

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January 23, 2012, 08:46:44 PM
 #34

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1ngldh


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January 23, 2012, 09:01:49 PM
 #35


Wait what? I am confus. Is this for real?

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January 23, 2012, 09:18:31 PM
 #36

Shopped. The box art gives it away.

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January 23, 2012, 09:40:12 PM
 #37

Still an interesting topic of discussion - even if shopped at this point.

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January 24, 2012, 12:11:58 AM
 #38

A card that can do the signing of a transaction could be powered by the POS device. Here is the flow:

*Plug card into pos device
*Send public address to pos
*pos assembles all the parts of the transaction and sends the transaction to the card
*card displays transaction on mini screen and has a button to accept
*transaction is signed and sent back to pos

I think something like this could be built on a usb powered Arduino nano device with some clever coding.
http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/ArduinoNano


----

Actually, ignore all of the above.

"So what do you do if on some dark stormy night in the country you run out of gas and your battery goes dead? "

*Do all transactions need internet access - YES
*Does your POS most likely have a usb port to charge your phone from - YES

Then you don't need anything but your phone still. If the merchant needs power himself, as well as internet access, then you don't have a power problem for your phone (most likely).

The only thing that works in offline mode is physical bitcoins.

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January 24, 2012, 02:28:05 AM
 #39

A card that can do the signing of a transaction could be powered by the POS device. Here is the flow:

*Plug card into pos device
*Send public address to pos
*pos assembles all the parts of the transaction and sends the transaction to the card
*card displays transaction on mini screen and has a button to accept
*transaction is signed and sent back to pos

I think something like this could be built on a usb powered Arduino nano device with some clever coding.
http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/ArduinoNano


----

Actually, ignore all of the above.

"So what do you do if on some dark stormy night in the country you run out of gas and your battery goes dead? "

*Do all transactions need internet access - YES
*Does your POS most likely have a usb port to charge your phone from - YES

Then you don't need anything but your phone still. If the merchant needs power himself, as well as internet access, then you don't have a power problem for your phone (most likely).

The only thing that works in offline mode is physical bitcoins.


Actually physical bitcoins dont work either.  The only way they could work is if it cost more to produce a fake one than it was worth... Which means anyone manufacturibg such a thing could never make profit.

Offline transactions are possible with highly encrypted hardware and escrow accounts locked for 24 hours etc on a central authority
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February 02, 2012, 03:18:19 PM
 #40

Frickin' nice! Very nice! Personally, I'm having trouble getting my head wrapped around the term 'Credit Card'. Perhaps a different word or term for what you have here is in order. Hopefully the community can help me (us) out with this issue I'm having.

I've been referring to these as "Pay Me" cards, since they basically perform the exact opposite duty of a credit card.  (Probably not the best term, but I sort of copied that from a sci-fi TV show I was watching that referred to ID as a Show Me card.)

Instead of being used to give money, you use them to receive a payment.  Hand your card to someone, he scans it with a mobile device, and then transfers coins to your account.  You could do the same with a cell phone generated QR code, but a card eliminates the need to hand a potential stranger your valuable and rather personal mobile device.

The concept of pulling funds from an account, as is done with basically all modern banking and credit cards, is one of the most fundamental ways the entire banking system is flawed.  It will take a little change in thinking to get used to this reversal in how funds are transferred, but we'll all be much better off in the end.

By the way, I can have your card printed for you at www.paymyaddress.com.  I do also offer a 20% commission on sales from contributed designs.  So far, the best sellers have been my original design and design #5 (the one with the Casascius coin background).


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I also cover the bitcoin economy for Forbes, American Banker, PaymentsSource, and CoinDesk.
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