Tesla: "We have converted approximately 75% of our BTC into fiat currency"

[kryptqnick]

I wrote a thing initially on how not selling at $60k does not mean selling at a loss and that they could've still made profits from the deal, BUT then I realized it's not so simple.
So the news of Tesla purchasing a lot of BTC (the company itself rather than Elon individually) hit the media in early February 2021 (February 7-8), when the price was around $38k. If we assume they bought around that time, then the buying price is around $38k per coin.
Then there's a question of when Q2 starts. You might think it's in May, and in that case they either sold at the same price as they bought it (more or less) or they sold at a loss. But the financial Q2 actually started on April 1, so they could have hypothetically sold at around $46k at most, bringing them (very optimistically) up to 20% profit. While not much by Bitcoin investment standards, it's not bad when you invest a ton of money either.

[sbrys]

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

[lionheart78]

did they sell at a loss?

Purposely, so that they don't have to pay for their annual tax because losses outweigh the gain.  But I think they had sold earlier and just reported it late.

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

True, I also think the loss is somehow negligible if we weigh their global exposure benefits.   But I still think that there is something hidden in there, Elon is a scheming person and on top of that he is a talented businessman with top rank skill,  so declaring such things will have more than benefits than the assumed "loss" on that conversion.

[tbterryboy]

I’m not really all that surprised. I’m tired of Elon having such an influence when it comes to the cryptocurrency space. Truth is the guy completely talks out of his ass when it comes to bitcoin and cryptocurrency, so maybe this means he will talk less about it. Tired of that joker.

True. I expected this as well because I remember elon hated btc for not being an environment friendly but I wonder why they only sell 75 percent of their btc wealth? Even if they sell it all, they will still be in profit because they got involved in btc long time ago. I think that was before the last year's hype.

Elon is not that active anymore when it comes to crypto talks so don't worry because I think he will completely abandon crypto soon because there are more interesting things that he will be doing than posting stuffs about cryptos which aren't really that beneficial to the majority. I just hope that this news here won't affect the small improvement of btc.

[tabas]

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

Yeah, they're on the news, as in everywhere and the same time, their company name was on it. They get free advertising from almost every news agency, paper and in the mass media.
What a strategy for them, they just hope on to invest in a known cryptocurrency, they sell at profit and they get all the exposure that they want and needed for them to have more sale for their cars. A great strategy indeed.

[milewilda]

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

Yeah, they're on the news, as in everywhere and the same time, their company name was on it. They get free advertising from almost every news agency, paper and in the mass media.
What a strategy for them, they just hope on to invest in a known cryptocurrency, they sell at profit and they get all the exposure that they want and needed for them to have more sale for their cars. A great strategy indeed.

Thats how business works and the owner is indeed that not dumb not to make some steps which wont really be that relevant or not good for the business.All things had been planned from getting profit from their crypto investment and at the same time they are really indeed getting that attention or exposure.Win-win situation right? You wont really be making yourself a billionaire if you arent
really that good when it comes to these things. Properly planned indeed but since its their money and i dont know on why some people are really that in rage on why Tesla had sold out their
crypto holdings? Its their asset so they do have the full right on when they would be selling it out.We cant really just tell them to hold on like forever.There's always a tendency or chances for
them to sell off if they do see that it is indeed the right time.

[TimeTeller]

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

Yeah, they're on the news, as in everywhere and the same time, their company name was on it. They get free advertising from almost every news agency, paper and in the mass media.
What a strategy for them, they just hope on to invest in a known cryptocurrency, they sell at profit and they get all the exposure that they want and needed for them to have more sale for their cars. A great strategy indeed.

Any form of advertising is indeed good for a company.
They may be selling at a loss but hey, they got a very good advertisement with their Tesla company.
Anyway, it is up to the people how they view this. But at the end of the day, you are the one taking care of your funds.
So a good advertisement or not, it is on your hands how you you react on this situation.

[Abiky]

Source: https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-releases-second-quarter-2022-financial-results

did they sell at a loss?

This might be another failed attempt by Elon Musk's to try to manipulate the market for his own benefit. By selling BTC, prices could dump so he could buy more coins at a discount. Rinse and repeat. I don't think the company sold at a loss, since it still has a lot of money at its disposal. It really doesn't matter what Elon or his company does with their BTC holdings.

People should stop following Elon Musk and focus on what makes crypto best. Decentralization is what is truly about to bring banking to the unbanked. BTC is projected to reach $1m in the future, so Elon would be missing a huge profit opportunity if he gets out now. With or without Elon, I'm pretty confident Bitcoin will last for generations. Just my thoughts

[LogitechMouse]

I don't know if Elon is trying to get some hype again like what he did to DOGE or he just sold their Bitcoins because they wanted to and they just created a made-up reason for it.

The market reacted a bit on it when it went down but now it is starting to go up again and TBH, an institution or a whale or a large holder of Bitcoin selling their holdings is a good news for us because the Bitcoins will be spread out to everyone therefore, manipulation will be lessen. I wonder when will Microstrategy sell theirs . JK

Anyway, I don't care at all whether they will sell at a loss or Elon will buy again in the future blah blah blah. If this is some form of advertisement or exposure to the public because Tesla stocks are now plummeting then maybe they succeed because they are now in the news .

[shogun47]

This should be a lesson to those of you who want to invest in companies like Tesla. These moves show that they aren't run by geniuses but normal people who buy at the top and then panic sell at the bottom. They don't care about bitcoin, decentralization, changing the world. They also don't care about the environment. What Musk did pumping and dumping bitcoin and saying that it's bad for the environment was a low level scam you'd expect from a street peddler, not a CEO of a big company.

I mean, I think it's probably hard to argue that Elon is an exceptionally talented businessman, and definitely has some other very good qualities about him, in the intellectual field. So, I'm not going to take that away from him. However, the reason they likely sold was stakeholders, and public perception, rather than the issue of not believing in Bitcoin or wanting to say invested in Bitcoin.

These days, reputation is everything, and especially for a car company that's trying to appear to be the greener of the alternatives. Supporting a currency which has had some very public negative news about energy usage isn't exactly the greatest look for them, even if the claims aren't that valid.

This is definitely a good point, but I would argue that there are still two sides to the coin when it comes to Tesla getting involved with Bitcoin. Tesla doesn't only try to position itself as a "green" car brand. It is also strongly aiming at resonating with the digital generation. Fancy looking, highly technological cars. Everything is about connection and data, everything is automatic and digital. Tesla making a move into Bitcoin was about more than just acquiring a digital currency that Tesla believes to be of high temporary and future relevance and probably of speculative value

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/tesla-sold-936m-of-bitcoin-kept-its-dogecoin-reserves/

To me it was also a major marketing move towards a global movement that has been growing exponentially all around the globe for a decade now. Like, really, would a car company buy Bitcoin AND Dogecoin solely in hopes of making a net profit at some point in time in the future? That's not to be denied, but by no means is that the only reason in my opinion. Getting into crypto, and specifically into Bitcoin and Dogecoin, was well considered from a marketing perspective.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/business-news-doge-funded-elon-musk-moon-mission-creates-buzz-but-meme-coin-falls/400755

Obviously, Musk playing around with Dogecoin, sending satellites to the moon and whatever else he has/had planned was clearly ending up in massive media attention and marketing for Tesla.

After all, does anyone really know how many Bitcoin and Dogecoin Musk owns privately? Could anyone tell for sure that Musk is NOT one of the biggest Bitcoin or Dogecoin holders in the world? Or has been in the past and knew about his influence when distancing himself and Tesla from PoW right after he potentially sold as a private person?

I think this is a super difficult and complex topic. He might also clearly have underestimated the backfire from all the renewable energy stakeholders as you said. That definitely also played a role.

[franky1]

again
elon did not buy coin in feb 2021. .. he bought in-before december 2020(under $23k). its on his financial records of december 2020 that he acquired coins. thus the price was under $23k..
those financial records went viral, where media speculated it in feb 2021 to try and cause some speculation in feb 2021.. so dont base elons acquire coin price based on the media release date. base it on the date or before. where he actually filed a financial report acknowledging a purchase

the 2022 media viral speculation about the sell did not mean he sold in july 2022. the sell happened before that.
again the media are talking about it in july. but thats not when they were sold
suggestions are he sold at the $28k-$30k area

once you read it in media, your too late to speculate on it. public media are last to know.

..
as for the drivel about 'elon consciously causing speculation'
no.. media is, using outdated info

the topic created here. is using a financial record.
this is not a tweet today from elon speculating or causing drama. its instead a link from a media source that found a company financial report/memo.

so its media trying to cause manipulation/speculation/drama, which is then inflated by other people like this topic creator then posting it to further the drama.

elon sold the coins ages ago now. its not 'news today' about an event that happened this week.. its outdated data from an event that happened last month/before.. where media is just slow and outdated trying to cause some emotional spark now

[pooya87]

so its media trying to cause manipulation/speculation/drama, which is then inflated by other people like this topic creator then posting it to further the drama.

Exactly this. Each time the shorts fail and the losses start to pile on we see this type of FUD come out trying to push the price lower so that the desperate speculators could recover a small amount of what they'd lost.

[KaliLinux]

Excellent news, although I would have preferred to have read that he sold 100% of all the Bitcoins he bought, because he has shown many times that he does not really understand what he has invested in, no matter how intelligent some people consider him to be. Regardless of whether he is at a loss or has made some money, the time he chose to sell is completely wrong from a profit perspective.

I only hope that Mr. Mars stays away from Bitcoin, and lets him stick to things he somewhat understands.

True that and it is obvious that Bitcoin doesn't need people like Elon Musk to continue to bring negative news to the system but the interesting thing is that, there are those that understand Bitcoin with the liquidity and are willing to buy them up. Elon is becoming bad news to himself even if it was just only the twitter deal, I thought he was a smart person and would have usually done his homework before investment.

[Lucius]

For me, the idolization of this person seems something completely incomprehensible and strange. Apparently, I am not influenced by his charms and the follower didn't work out of me. But we can't ignore the impact he and his company have on the entire crypto industry. Don't you think that attracting media attention in this way would be "expensive"? Judging by the financial statements, the losses are considerable. You can find cheaper ways to get media attention. I don't know the motives and goals of the tesla, but I can't believe in actions "at a loss", otherwise this company would cease to exist by going bankrupt.

For someone who has several hundred billion $, I think $1.5 billion is actually a very small amount to buy a place in the everyday Bitcoin discussions. What surprises me is that people equate the money that someone has invested with the fact that someone has knowledge or honorable intentions in all of this.

The average investor's need to have a leader seems to be stronger than the very idea represented by Bitcoin, which is clearly seen from how many millions follow every word that comes out of the mouth of their idol. It didn't work with any person who tried to impose himself as a person of special importance, and now it turns out that Musk is no crypto messiah either.

[stompix]

This might be another failed attempt by Elon Musk's to try to manipulate the market for his own benefit. By selling BTC, prices could dump so he could buy more coins at a discount. Rinse and repeat.

Oh yeah, the guy who made hundred of billions from other businesses is going to lie in a financial statement and buy more coins on his own to increase his wealth by, how much? Seriously, people should stop thinking that everything in this world revolves around crypto and that everyone is so keen to get his hand on it that it affords to risk throwing down the toilet a multibillion company.

Start differentiating from Twitter posts about "safu" moon" laser eyes" and an official document.
It's quite ironic that nobody has ever questioned if Salvador has indeed purchased the coins they claim they have since we don't have any proof of that but once it's about selling they will not trust even a signed document, which if forged comes with a sentence!

If Musk really wanted to crash the markets or spread "FUD", don't you think he would have gone to Twitter and said he has sold his coins? Yet he only mentions the sell in a usual conference about Tesla earnings, it also added that this is not an indicator or an 'a verdict on Bitcoin.'

People should stop following Elon Musk and focus on what makes crypto best.

And yet, just like a hundred others who "don't care" what Musk does you're here on this topic discussing him. Ironic, isn't it?
Nobody cares what Musk does but we have currently 7 topics about it and hundreds of replies. Really, really funny!

For someone who has several hundred billion $, I think $1.5 billion is actually a very small amount to buy a place in the everyday Bitcoin discussions. What surprises me is that people equate the money that someone has invested with the fact that someone has knowledge or honorable intentions in all of this.

But speaking of equating stuff, why do we equate Tesla's decision with Musk's beliefs?
I've seen people mentioning that he sold ~900 million to pay for the Twitter fine, but these are Tesla's assets, not Musk's money.

[darkv0rt3x]

Regarding the OP, I just have to say: better for the plebs. They have a chance of buying a bit more for them and make it a bit less centralised in terms of possession!

[Minecache]

did they sell at a loss?

Who cares about that. The important thing is that this is an excellent news. Every time a big whale sells their bitcoin or a large portion of it, that is an excellent news because market manipulation capability shrinks. Not to mention the risk of them panic selling when their businesses go under.
In other words it is always better to have 1000 people own 1 bitcoin each than to have 1 entity owning 1000 bitcoins.

No one knows because we don't have the exact time they bought in. In the past year, they made over $100 million selling bitcoin, but the average price may result in a loss this time.

Yes, it really does not matter. It might cause a bit of panic in the market, but we should thank them for selling their bitcoin. The market will be less manipulative and has created an opportunity for those who have just bought in during the last drop.

[Cookdata]

Too soon to say it. The recession can change your plan if you did not manage risk well at beginning. It is the same for small investor too. If you don't have money reserve to spend in bear market, what you bought in bull market must be sold in bear market at loss. You don't have choice, only one choice and must execute it.

Are you implying that Tesla founded in 2003 doesn't know what risk management was all about, they have been in the system right before the genesis block was mined, they knew what they did. It is not as if it was only bitcoin they had as an option to get fiat to stock more items due to recession but I feel they don't believe in bitcoin as a store of value otherwise they would have sorted out the fiat elsewhere.

We don't know why Tesla and Elon sold their Bitcoin.

It wouldn't be far from what franky1 discuss here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5407060.msg60604239#msg60604239

Every company can change plans but I don't protect Elon or Tesla. You must know that Elon speaks not based on plans. In many speech on behalf of Tesla team or SpaceX team, he made his teams shocked because they did not know anything about plan Elon said.

They had plans and that was what they just executed and surprises the public. It will be ridiculous that a company like Tesla doesn't have plans, plans are secretive to the mind and that was what they had in mind should in case things don't go as planned, they sold and left the remaining 15% as another plan we don't know yet.

[darkangel11]

They bought around February - March 2021 so 30-50k which means they sold at a loss adding power to the April - May crash.

no they didnt
elon bought his stash in-before december 2020. he reported it on the december 2020 tax filings..
.. those tax filings entered the media circus of speculation viral commenting about it in feb-march 2021

We aren't talking about Elon here but Tesla. Elon bought, like you said, in 2020 and sold his personal stash in 2021 claiming it was bad for the environment.
Tesla continued to hold until 2022 and sold during the crash somewhere in April or May.

Tesla holds 43,200 BTC and in its Q2 report (April to June) it announced that it sold 75%, about 32,400 BTC or $936 million. 936000000/32,400=~$28,888 . They sell for an average of $28.8k
At this average price, I don't think they sold at a loss.

Then you might be wrong. Just to be clear, you might also be right, but...

Coming into the quarter Tesla (ticker: TSLA) held roughly 42,000 coins it had purchased for about $30,000 apiece, on average
https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-sells-bitcoin-holdings-51658352021

As their initial earnings report suggests, the company has sold $936 million worth of Bitcoin at the price of $28,888, which coincides with the massive Bitcoin plunge we saw back in June when the cascade of liquidations sent BTC right to the $17,800 level.
https://u.today/heres-how-much-tesla-lost-by-selling-its-bitcoins-at-29000

[FanEagle]

Elon cannot really change the market as much as he thinks he could. Sure, it has been a "bad" market for the past 24 hours, but bitcoin has been 10%+ higher in the past week, and ETH has been 30%+ higher in the past week as well. So, just realize what you are doing and that would be something much better.

In the end, crypto is not in the hands of just one person, it's in the hands of many people and that is why there isn't any type of situation where people could end up selling or buying and creating a chaos in the market that would benefit them. Elon is doing that, he always says he bought it when he needs the price to go up, and says he sold it when he needs it to go down, and that manipulation stops eventually.