6840 euros missing because of a mistake from Stake.com

[TheHonestMan]

Hello,
I am somewhat familiar with the forum but I never posted before.
I want to share this as an interesting story, especially for those who played on Stake before, and as a public opportunity for Stake to make a statement on this.

What happened:
1-I deposited 0.08925405 BTC on Stake on the 2nd of august 2022, first confirmation of the transaction at 9h30 am UTC
2-I saw my balance showing 1980 euros, so I bet on Hippodrome Live roulette, at 9h31:18 UTC on multiple numbers, about all of my balance, and I had 300 euros on number 32
3- Edit: 08-09-22 (to assess that the bets were not rejected immediately) I see my bet debited from my balance, the chips taken into account on the table after bets were closed, and the ball make a few rounds
4-I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"
5-I see the ball make about 2 to 3 rounds before landing on number 32 (this is probably why I didn't post this in the scam accusation section, as I thought they might not have cancelled my bet because of the result)
6-I make another 1980 euros bet at 9h33:03 UTC, and it also gets rejected, but this time the bet would have lost
7-I go to another live roulette, make the same bet, bets accepted, and lose.

If my bets were processed like they should have been, my balance as of now should be 10800-1980-1980=6840 euros.


How Stake technical team explained this problem:
-The bet I made in section 2 above was rejected because my deposit was credited at 9h31:33 UTC and the bet was made before that at 9h31:18 UTC
-There is no problem with this because, whatever the result was going to be, my bet would have still been refunded


The problem I see with this explanation:
-It would be impossible for me to see my balance at 1980 euros or even try to bet if my deposit was not credited.
-What he says is in contradiction with blockchain records. Stake requires one confirmation for the deposit to be credited. My transaction hash is b8f8fa7e9c7272c3791abc887740bed23a535441c193279a393c1d346da8b206 and the first confirmation took place at 9h30 UTC. For those of you who played on Stake before, you know it takes only seconds after confirmation for the deposit to be credited. This is stronger proof than his screenshots
-His explanation doesn't say why my 2nd bet was rejected, which gives doubts about why my first bet was rejected. I just don't buy it
-It is totally possible, with certain delays in the video, for them to know the result before I do. I am not accusing them of doing so, but this is possible, and it's a matter of trust of believing that they didn't cancel my bet because of the result. They might have cancelled my second losing bet as to not make it obvious about what is really happening. Their edge in this case would go from 2.7% to about 70%, 30x more return.
-I've always bet immediately after my deposit was credited on stake, and never had this problem, and I've done it many, many times.

In conclusion:
-I've made my bets after transaction was confirmed and won.
-I've been given some inaccurate explanations about as to why my bets were rejected
-It is possible that the bets were rejected because of a winning result. Also possible that bets were rejected no matter the result.
-I personally did not commit any mistake

So I appeal Stake to take on their responsibilities and consider all of the bets I placed.

Stake does not argue these facts, it's just about how to handle them, so I won't bother posting proof. And I'll just leave there.

In case some of you are interested in the conversation that took place, here's the video of the complete conversation: https://www.transfernow.net/dl/202208052GZCdH1R
 
You have the screenshots they sent me by the end of the conversation.

Hope you'll have a nice day! Cheers!

Edit 08-09-22: in the event that Stake wants to make a statement about this here, case number is: - SD-2546222

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[yahoo62278]

I seriously doubt that the employees of stake visit this section very often. You might reach out via pm to 1 of them and point them to this thread or post in their topic regarding your issue.

Stunna https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292

Symphonized https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1928906

Announcement thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2072589.0

[TheHonestMan]

I seriously doubt that the employees of stake visit this section very often. You might reach out via pm to 1 of them and point them to this thread or post in their topic regarding your issue.

Stunna https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292

Symphonized https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1928906

Announcement thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2072589.0

Thank you. I sent a message to Stunna.

[saxydev]

@Thehonestman try to address stake via casino guru, not askgamblers (they stopped replying there). You may be into something interesting, but they will deny it and just say it was a bug (and maybe it was a malfunction).

[TwitchySeal]

What happened:
1-I deposited 0.08925405 BTC on Stake on the 2nd of august 2022, first confirmation of the transaction at 9h30 am UTC
2-I saw my balance showing 1980 euros, so I bet on Hippodrome Live roulette, at 9h31:18 UTC on multiple numbers, about all of my balance, and I had 300 euros on number 32
3-I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"
4-I see the ball make about 2 to 3 rounds before landing on number 32 (this is probably why I didn't post this in the scam accusation section, as I thought they might not have cancelled my bet because of the result)
5-I make another 1980 euros bet at 9h33:03 UTC, and it also gets rejected, but this time the bet would have lost
6-I go to another live roulette, make the same bet, bets accepted, and lose.

If the bet is rejected then there's no action, it really doesn't matter why it was rejected.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

3-I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"

Obviously the bet was rejected before the result. Stake does not have any clue that it was supposed to be on the 32. Furthermore in live roulettes it's the game provider who decides win or lose, in other words everything related to the table you are in decided by the provider of the roulettes table. Stake or any other casino are just using their API and storing the data of their clients (in this case it's you) to pay your winnings or take money from your loss.

[TheHonestMan]

Obviously the bet was rejected before the result.

Alright, but it's only a matter of trust. I only play live games because I don't want to trust. I can see the video uninterrupted, and I can bet on any numbers I want. If they can decide what bets are accepted and what bets not, then I have to trust. That's the point I'm trying to make.
It's not that obvious to me, especially when they give bogus claims on why the bets were rejected.

[TwitchySeal]

Obviously the bet was rejected before the result.

Alright, but it's only a matter of trust. I only play live games because I don't want to trust. I can see the video uninterrupted, and I can bet on any numbers I want. If they can decide what bets are accepted and what bets not, then I have to trust. That's the point I'm trying to make.
It's not that obvious to me, especially when they give bogus claims on why the bets were rejected.

You said yourself the bet was rejected right away, before the outcome was determined.

What happened:
1-I deposited 0.08925405 BTC on Stake on the 2nd of august 2022, first confirmation of the transaction at 9h30 am UTC
2-I saw my balance showing 1980 euros, so I bet on Hippodrome Live roulette, at 9h31:18 UTC on multiple numbers, about all of my balance, and I had 300 euros on number 32
3-I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"

Your bet was rejected, nothing else matters after that - since you didn't have a bet on the outcome.

[yogg]

Too bad they won't reject the bet after you lost, right ?

[edgycorner]

I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"

Seems like an act of dishonest game provider since they know the result beforehand(before you i.e.) and can reject/accept bet as they will(what can you do, file a lawsuit? lol). Include the name of the provider, might add some context.

Edit: I checked the transaction and the confirmation indeed takes place at 0930 UTC in block #747632

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"

Seems like an act of dishonest game provider since they know the result beforehand(before you i.e.)

What am I missing? The bet was rejected before the result. So I do not see a problem. It worth discussing if the bet was rejected after the ball stopped in the number 32.

In live roulette there could be an argument that they delay the streaming and change the result but it will be unlikely and hardly possibly in the short period of time. When you chat with them on the table you will understand it's almost instant.

[edgycorner]

I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"

Seems like an act of dishonest game provider since they know the result beforehand(before you i.e.)

What am I missing? The bet was rejected before the result. So I do not see a problem. It worth discussing if the bet was rejected after the ball stopped in the number 32.

In live roulette there could be an argument that they delay the streaming and change the result but it will be unlikely and hardly possibly in the short period of time. When you chat with them on the table you will understand it's almost instant.

I went though OP's post again. A delay of 3~5 seconds would be sufficient to reject a winning bet in this case. It's not possible to observe a delay of this magnitude through operator's response to live chat. And it also depends on the game provider.

OP did mention the game provider in his post (Hippodrome Live roulette). Maybe someone can test this theory in a conclusive manner.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I went though OP's post again. A delay of 3~5 seconds would be sufficient to reject a winning bet in this case. It's not possible to observe a delay of this magnitude through operator's response to live chat. And it also depends on the game provider.

It could be a good debate. But without any supporting evidences it's just word and mouth between you, me and others. Without any supporting document it's impossible to prove.

Maybe someone can test this theory in a conclusive manner.

Who have time to ring the bell?

[edgycorner]

I went though OP's post again. A delay of 3~5 seconds would be sufficient to reject a winning bet in this case. It's not possible to observe a delay of this magnitude through operator's response to live chat. And it also depends on the game provider.

It could be a good debate. But without any supporting evidences it's just word and mouth between you, me and others. Without any supporting document it's impossible to prove.

Yes, that's what OP is hinting at.

[JollyGood]

As much as I sympathise with the OP, unless I am missing something obvious it seems you captured the situation appropriately. If the bet was cancelled or rejected almost as soon as it was placed but it was definitely cancelled before the result was known, then the OP really does not have a case.

If the OP is alleging there was some sort of fraud on part of the game providers then that is a separate matter entirely and am not sure how he will be able to prove the game providers knew the result before the bet was placed.

Alright, but it's only a matter of trust. I only play live games because I don't want to trust. I can see the video uninterrupted, and I can bet on any numbers I want. If they can decide what bets are accepted and what bets not, then I have to trust. That's the point I'm trying to make.
It's not that obvious to me, especially when they give bogus claims on why the bets were rejected.

You said yourself the bet was rejected right away, before the outcome was determined.

What happened:
1-I deposited 0.08925405 BTC on Stake on the 2nd of august 2022, first confirmation of the transaction at 9h30 am UTC
2-I saw my balance showing 1980 euros, so I bet on Hippodrome Live roulette, at 9h31:18 UTC on multiple numbers, about all of my balance, and I had 300 euros on number 32
3-I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"

Your bet was rejected, nothing else matters after that - since you didn't have a bet on the outcome.

[TheHonestMan]

As much as I sympathise with the OP, unless I am missing something obvious it seems you captured the situation appropriately. If the bet was cancelled or rejected almost as soon as it was placed but it was definitely cancelled before the result was known, then the OP really does not have a case.

If the OP is alleging there was some sort of fraud on part of the game providers then that is a separate matter entirely and am not sure how he will be able to prove the game providers knew the result before the bet was placed.

If you think I don't have a case unless I get to prove that the provider knew the result before cancelling the bets, fine.
Although I disagree with this, and I got to prove that my bets were placed on time after deposit legitimately, that I have been given false reasons as to why they were rejected, and that there is some reasonable doubt that the bets could have been possibly rejected after result.

But what's for sure is I did not say the bet was cancelled as soon as it was placed. Someone else said it in the comments above. The chips were taken into account on the screen and debited from my balance. It is only after a few rounds of the ball that the bets were rejected. To avoid any confusion I am editing my first post to include this information.

[TwitchySeal]

As much as I sympathise with the OP, unless I am missing something obvious it seems you captured the situation appropriately. If the bet was cancelled or rejected almost as soon as it was placed but it was definitely cancelled before the result was known, then the OP really does not have a case.

If the OP is alleging there was some sort of fraud on part of the game providers then that is a separate matter entirely and am not sure how he will be able to prove the game providers knew the result before the bet was placed.

If you think I don't have a case unless I get to prove that the provider knew the result before cancelling the bets, fine.
Although I disagree with this, and I got to prove that my bets were placed on time after deposit legitimately, that I have been given false reasons as to why they were rejected, and that there is some reasonable doubt that the bets could have been possibly rejected after result.

But what's for sure is I did not say the bet was cancelled as soon as it was placed. Someone else said it in the comments above. The chips were taken into account on the screen and debited from my balance. It is only after a few rounds of the ball that the bets were rejected. To avoid any confusion I am editing my first post to include this information.

If the bet was rejected before "no more bets", nothing else matters.  Doesn't matter why they rejected it, doesn't matter if they tell you why it was rejected or not, doesn't matter what the outcome was, doesn't matter if you saw your balance go up and down, etc... You attempted to make a bet, the bet was rejected.  There was no bet.

[TheHonestMan]

As much as I sympathise with the OP, unless I am missing something obvious it seems you captured the situation appropriately. If the bet was cancelled or rejected almost as soon as it was placed but it was definitely cancelled before the result was known, then the OP really does not have a case.

If the OP is alleging there was some sort of fraud on part of the game providers then that is a separate matter entirely and am not sure how he will be able to prove the game providers knew the result before the bet was placed.

If you think I don't have a case unless I get to prove that the provider knew the result before cancelling the bets, fine.
Although I disagree with this, and I got to prove that my bets were placed on time after deposit legitimately, that I have been given false reasons as to why they were rejected, and that there is some reasonable doubt that the bets could have been possibly rejected after result.

But what's for sure is I did not say the bet was cancelled as soon as it was placed. Someone else said it in the comments above. The chips were taken into account on the screen and debited from my balance. It is only after a few rounds of the ball that the bets were rejected. To avoid any confusion I am editing my first post to include this information.

If the bet was rejected before "no more bets", nothing else matters.  Doesn't matter why they rejected it, doesn't matter if they tell you why it was rejected or not, doesn't matter what the outcome was, doesn't matter if you saw your balance go up and down, etc... You attempted to make a bet, the bet was rejected.  There was no bet.

Precisely no, the bets were rejected after bets were closed, a few rounds of the ball after "no more bets". Just edited my original post to include this information.

[TwitchySeal]

As much as I sympathise with the OP, unless I am missing something obvious it seems you captured the situation appropriately. If the bet was cancelled or rejected almost as soon as it was placed but it was definitely cancelled before the result was known, then the OP really does not have a case.

If the OP is alleging there was some sort of fraud on part of the game providers then that is a separate matter entirely and am not sure how he will be able to prove the game providers knew the result before the bet was placed.

If you think I don't have a case unless I get to prove that the provider knew the result before cancelling the bets, fine.
Although I disagree with this, and I got to prove that my bets were placed on time after deposit legitimately, that I have been given false reasons as to why they were rejected, and that there is some reasonable doubt that the bets could have been possibly rejected after result.

But what's for sure is I did not say the bet was cancelled as soon as it was placed. Someone else said it in the comments above. The chips were taken into account on the screen and debited from my balance. It is only after a few rounds of the ball that the bets were rejected. To avoid any confusion I am editing my first post to include this information.

If the bet was rejected before "no more bets", nothing else matters.  Doesn't matter why they rejected it, doesn't matter if they tell you why it was rejected or not, doesn't matter what the outcome was, doesn't matter if you saw your balance go up and down, etc... You attempted to make a bet, the bet was rejected.  There was no bet.

Precisely no, the bets were rejected after bets were closed, a few rounds of the ball after "no more bets". Just edited my original post to include this information.

I guess you have a case sort of.  Im having a hard time buying your new story though.  You were pretty explicit in your first version of events:

What happened:
1-I deposited 0.08925405 BTC on Stake on the 2nd of august 2022, first confirmation of the transaction at 9h30 am UTC
2-I saw my balance showing 1980 euros, so I bet on Hippodrome Live roulette, at 9h31:18 UTC on multiple numbers, about all of my balance, and I had 300 euros on number 32
3-I see a message saying "your bet has been rejected"
4-I see the ball make about 2 to 3 rounds before landing on number 32 (this is probably why I didn't post this in the scam accusation section, as I thought they might not have cancelled my bet because of the result)
5-I make another 1980 euros bet at 9h33:03 UTC, and it also gets rejected, but this time the bet would have lost
6-I go to another live roulette, make the same bet, bets accepted, and lose.

[TheHonestMan2]

I've lost access to my first account due to incorrect email address.

I guess you have a case sort of.  Im having a hard time buying your new story though.  You were pretty explicit in your first version of events:

I just added one more precision to my story. The order of events presented was correct and hasn't changed, and I am not lying.


Since Stake did not want to address this issue, I am burning my Saturday boost bonuses into the genesis address. I have done so last week and this week and here are the transaction hashes:
d00eef8e87298a65d668ad2cfe0563f7304fd300ab790319e4694cd0929ed05e

abe2d3661649ca6fe5a75e1dabd1aab6145f9a59d149cf8d9d15b02b8c7f9b01

So they might want to close my account rather than waste this money.