RedFlaged / Marked or "Dirty" BTC/USDT

[pandaBTC]

Hello to everyone. Need some advice from went over this and have solid solutionS.
How to make sure that coins (BTC and/or USDT) are not "dirty" before you receive them on your wallet?Not concidering Coinfirm,Chainalysis,ScoreChain etc.

 As I anderstand they wan't be locked until you send them to crypto-platform with KYC( like binance..). What about cold wallets?

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[Solosanz]

You only have one way, trace the coins came from. But most people can't distinguish between the coins came from mixers and normal transaction, it need a good understanding and learning to know that. What can I say is most mixer are easier to know the pattern, while Chipmixer is harder.

Usually the risk of such dirty coins are came from directly P2P trading without any platform as the third party and mixers. Although not all dirty coins will transferred to mixers, but coins from mixers will flagged as high illicit funds.

As long as you're not doing directly P2P trading, I think you're almost prevent to receive dirty coins.

[dansus021]

the answer is you cant because its kinda impossible to track one by one the transaction. the only one to knowing is from the sender if you receive it from exchange is pretty much safe but if you randomly send by someone else you need to worry

[pandaBTC]

You only have one way, trace the coins came from. But most people can't distinguish between the coins came from mixers and normal transaction, it need a good understanding and learning to know that. What can I say is most mixer are easier to know the pattern, while Chipmixer is harder.

Usually the risk of such dirty coins are came from directly P2P trading without any platform as the third party and mixers. Although not all dirty coins will transferred to mixers, but coins from mixers will flagged as high illicit funds.

As long as you're not doing directly P2P trading, I think you're almost prevent to receive dirty coins.

Thats the problem. im looking for solution for P2P trades. With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.


Need to eliminate that for P2P. my thoughts so far is:
 - make sure the funds are coming from exchange with KYC
 - move over to Monero and Zcash and conversation to btc. but If im not wrong ZEC has some issues with traceability.
 - other option is to receive small amount of BTC directly on  verified exchange wallet with 0 balance. if it not gets suspended - coins are clean and can be received with no worries. In this case question is - how soon your wallet gets suspended if you receive flagged coins and does it depend on amount (50 cents or over 100$).
 Please add your thoughts.

Decentralization slowly moving towards centralization . But that's another topic.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Z-tight]

With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then! Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

[pandaBTC]

With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then! Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

You are right about money. Also I would use mixers - but problem is that with all this AML ,exchanges can block your wallet just because it came from mixer and at some point coins been marked. Thats why im looking for who went over this problems and have something to share with all of us.
PS. don't want to try it myself and end up in bad position.

[Darker45]

With B2B its all fine but P2P - big problem aspecially lately. 100 trades could be fine but 1 can mess all of them.

Use mixers if you are worried about it then!

LOL! If you are worried that your coins could be flagged as tainted, using mixers is a suicide. That would only make your coin suspicious or even tainted.

Though in my opinion this is a non-issue, a currency, that bitcoin is changes hands very frequently, so if funds that have been marked as bad or stolen gets to you, i don't feel you can be in any trouble since your address wasn't the first one to receive the stolen funds. My local currency for example is stolen from people on the streets, in their houses every goddamn day, that same money circulates, but as long as i am not the thief who stole the money, i don't worry about the origin of the paper money in my purse, even if there is a high chance it was stolen at some point.

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Don't compare cash with Bitcoin. Restaurants, barber shops, grocery stores, hotels, markets, and almost all business establishments don't have mechanisms in tracking whether your money is dirty or not. That's different with a lot of duly licensed or registered crypto companies. Centralized and regulated crypto platforms such as exchanges, payment processors, lending, crypto banks, and so on are normally AML-compliant, which means they have AML bots and tracking software running 24/7 to guard against dirty coins.

The moment your coins are marked dirty, you'll be in trouble. Your coin might be rejected. You might not be allowed to do trading or conversion. You might get banned. Your account could be locked or your funds frozen or even confiscated. Your wallet could be blacklisted. You could be fined. You could even be prosecuted.

[NotATether]

Don't even mention USDT. Dirty USDT is locked USDT, because Tether can freeze your balance at any time.

I'm afraid you're wrong here. Don't compare cash with Bitcoin. Restaurants, barber shops, grocery stores, hotels, markets, and almost all business establishments don't have mechanisms in tracking whether your money is dirty or not. That's different with a lot of duly licensed or registered crypto companies. Centralized and regulated crypto platforms such as exchanges, payment processors, lending, crypto banks, and so on are normally AML-compliant, which means they have AML bots and tracking software running 24/7 to guard against dirty coins.

The moment your coins are marked dirty, you'll be in trouble. Your coin might be rejected. You might not be allowed to do trading or conversion. You might get banned. Your account could be locked or your funds frozen or even confiscated. Your wallet could be blacklisted. You could be fined. You could even be prosecuted.

There ain't no difference between so-called "dirty" coins and normal coins.

It can be argued, that every single coin is going to be tainted by the year 2147 - when the last block reward is mined. Think about that for a second.

Every coin you touch will either have traces of mixers, coinjoins, casinos or ponzi schemes (because scammers dump their coins on exchanges).

So, it is suicide to even worry about the issue of tainting in the first place. In chess we call this "zugzwang" - It's your turn to move, and all your moves are bad.

But since you are not obliged to move your coins, then by all means don't, unless you're trying to pay someone/thing.

[LoyceMobile]

There are no dirty Bitcoins, but there are currently many organisations that want you to believe "taint" exists. It's an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility. Don't believe it, and don't use exchanges that support this. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5401468.0

[hugeblack]

I am against the concept of dirty coins, but even these coins are returned to the financial system through auctions where millions of confiscated coins are resold and thus will again become legal and were acquired in legal auctions.
Therefore, the issue of tracking the source of the money is how to prove that you obtained this money in a legal way and from legal sources.

[Poker Player]

There are no dirty Bitcoins, but there are currently many organisations that want you to believe "taint" exists. It's an attack on Bitcoin's fungibility. Don't believe it, and don't use exchanges that support this. See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5401468.0

The problem is not so much that certain exchanges believe it or that the community believes it or not, but that the authorities believe it.

[Darker45]

~snip~

There ain't no difference between so-called "dirty" coins and normal coins.

I completely agree. And I am fully subscribed to Bitcoin's fungibility.

I was just responding to Z-tight's post. That reply of mine wasn't representative of my stand on this specific issue. I don't believe that one Bitcoin is purer than another. There's no single Bitcoin in the 21,000,000 total supply that is more Bitcoin or less Bitcoin than the rest.

While coins directly involved in crimes should be tracked, intercepted, confiscated, or returned to their rightful owners, it doesn't mean that those coins are dirty and aren't acceptable for circulation.

[LoyceMobile]

The problem is not so much that certain exchanges believe it or that the community believes it or not, but that the authorities believe it.

Which authorities from which country?

It's usually private organisations that try to sell their list of addresses. I haven't seen an official government approved list of tainted Bitcoin addresses yet.

[hatshepsut93]

First, you need to know from which address you will receive the coins. In many cases it's impossible, because your counterparty will refuse to tell you. Second, there's no objective taint. It's about to whom you will send your coins. Some services might not care about history of your coins at all. Others might hire chainanalysis companies or perform their own analysis. Some services don't want to receive coins linked to gambling. And so on. There's lots of possibilities.

[_BlackStar]

Hello to everyone. Need some advice from went over this and have solid solutionS.
How to make sure that coins (BTC and/or USDT) are not "dirty" before you receive them on your wallet?Not concidering Coinfirm,Chainalysis,ScoreChain etc.

 As I anderstand they wan't be locked until you send them to crypto-platform with KYC( like binance..). What about cold wallets?

Have you ever heard of a hacker wallet being specifically marked as a hacker wallet? If you've really heard of it then avoid accepting payments from those wallets or you'd better not make transactions with them ^{[but it's hard to track them down].} But since we can't tell which coin is called dirty coin, then I can say that it is clean. Every coin you buy on a centralized exchange seems safe from dirty trade lines, exchanges and governments can't catch you or freeze your assets just because of that, but maybe the exchange will freeze your assets if it's actually a deposit from a wallet marked as a hacker's wallet.

You have the option of clearing history transactions from your purchased coins by using a mixer, in this case you can increase your privacy in my opinion. I didn't expect to understand anything wrong.

[Poker Player]

The problem is not so much that certain exchanges believe it or that the community believes it or not, but that the authorities believe it.

Which authorities from which country?

It's usually private organisations that try to sell their list of addresses. I haven't seen an official government approved list of tainted Bitcoin addresses yet.

I haven't either. But I haven't seen any list of banned mixers either and there are already a few that have had problems with the authorities, the latest Crypto Mixer.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The correct response to an exchange such as Binance deciding that some bitcoin is somehow "unclean" and not good enough for them is not for you to bend over backwards and completely compromise your own privacy in order to only use coins which Binance deem acceptable; it is to stop using Binance! If other customers of your bank were depositing cash in to their accounts and your bank was then seizing not only that cash but all the money in all their accounts and leaving them financially screwed, would you keep using that bank or would you find another one which didn't do this?

I have traded exclusively peer to peer for the entire time I have used bitcoin. I extensively mix, coinjoin, swap to Monero, and otherwise obfuscate my coins. I have literally never once encountered a problem with taint or dirty coins because I do not use any centralized exchange or service which buys in to such nonsense and perpetuates this attack on the fundamentals of bitcoin.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The worst part of this taint nonsense is that they don't leave you another choice. You either hand them over everything they'll ask, stuff such as personal data, or you're just ripped off; yes, they confiscate your property otherwise.

When you deposit bitcoin to Binance, you should acknowledge this risk, because they ain't gonna warn you. They're deliberately quite on that part.

[jossiel]

Hello to everyone. Need some advice from went over this and have solid solutionS.
How to make sure that coins (BTC and/or USDT) are not "dirty" before you receive them on your wallet?Not concidering Coinfirm,Chainalysis,ScoreChain etc.

 As I anderstand they wan't be locked until you send them to crypto-platform with KYC( like binance..). What about cold wallets?

Ask a miner personally and buy those freshly mined bitcoins.

Other than that, I can't see any other way for you to have those clean bitcoins in the circulation because you'll never know where the origin of it really came from.

As been said by the others, it's likely that most of the coins have been touched by any of those worries you've got.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The worst part of this taint nonsense is that they don't leave you another choice.

Sure they do: Take your business elsewhere. If everyone stopped using Binance today because of arbitrary taint nonsense, you can guarantee they would have found some workaround/loophole by tomorrow.

Ask a miner personally and buy those freshly mined bitcoins.

Except they aren't all freshly mined, they include bitcoin which came from transaction fees from transaction linked to gambling, scams, North Korea, and more! And how do you know the miner which solved that block wasn't powered by coal and therefore contributing to global warming!? Those "freshly mined" coins should be tainted for sure!

Every coin in active circulation is tainted by somebody's made up metrics. The only logical conclusion is to stop using any platform or service which buys in to this made up fantasy.