Reee: How would bitcointalk community react to bitcointalk nfts

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I thought it was cool because its sort of an identity token that represents who you are on the forum and the blockchain. Alternatively, you have the option of minting multiple copies so you can trade them with others (this can be done in a trustless fashion using the Counterparty DEX).

OK, so my knee-jerk reaction would be something you don't want, nutildah, but the idea above isn't a bad one.  The problem is I've developed a bias against NFTs to the extent that bile starts defying gravity and makes its way from my gallbladder and nearly through my epiglottis whenever I see or hear anything about them.  And why?  It's because of all the videos I've watched about them and the irrational valuation put on 99.999% of them.  If these were treated like trading cards back in the 1950s like you said, with people trading them amongst themselves out of passion for the NFTs themselves and not like trading cards from the 1980s-now, then I'd support this.

But given my bias and everything I've learned about NFTs, I want no part of these or any other ones.  Speaking for myself, I don't need some sort of recognition on bitcoin's blockchain that will be forgotten about years if not months from now.  Yeah, it'll be there for all time, but if there aren't any eyeballs pointed at it, then it holds no value to me.  Hell, even if they were I still don't care.  These are just not something for me.

If you don't believe in any of this, then I have to ask, why do you believe in Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is a store of value, for one.  NFTs are retarded digital art being pumped and dumped by even more retarded retards, and I'm surprised the hype has been sustained for as long as it has.  For another thing, bitcoin and NFTs are just....different.  Fundamentally so.  In their purpose, their function, and their future prospects.

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[Pmalek]

I generally don't have a positive opinion of NFTs. At least not based on the things I have seen so far. A use case I find interesting is in gaming, but I am not drawn to any blockchain-based game. I can understand that people like digital collectibles. That's their interest and hobbies. If they want to trade physical or digital cards, fine by me. Why would that bother me? Personally, it's not for me.

Do I want a unique NFT of my profile? No.
Would I stop you in trying to get one yourself? No.
Do I think there is a great future for NFTs? No.   

I am open-minded and I welcome you to change my opinion. It's not going to be easy to convince me that I need a digital kitty or monkey in my life though. I can also live without buying custom Nike sneakers (something I saw recently).

Show us the benefits without calling those who don't like NFTs idiots in one way or the other.     

[LoyceV]

an identity token that represents who you are on the forum and the blockchain.

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't have nor need an identity on a blockchain.

NFTs are simply the digital representation of everything else.

I'm not buying it (pun intended).

why do you believe in Bitcoin?

Bitcoin solves a real world problem. NFTs, to me, are similar to altcoins, ICOs, DeFi, Forks and all other money grabbing things created to make the creator rich. Check some random ICOs from 2017, see how many are still around. I expect NFTs to have the same faith 5 years from now. And I expect to have seen at least a few new massive money grabbing schemes that promise they are going to disrupt something. Until they disappear with the money, of course.

I generally don't have a positive opinion of NFTs. At least not based on the things I have seen so far.

This is what I think of when someone mentions NFTs:

(source)

In general, I believe anything that can be done without a blockchain should be done without a blockchain. That includes digital items in games, and it includes forums.

[nutildah]

If these were treated like trading cards back in the 1950s like you said, with people trading them amongst themselves out of passion for the NFTs themselves and not like trading cards from the 1980s-now, then I'd support this.

Well, that's the thing, there is indeed a lot of this going on. A good example is the Rare Pepe community, along with some other classic bitcoin NFT collections. Its fun to collect Rare Pepes. It just is. A lot of them are massively expensive or hard to get, but every once in a while I score a decent buy. The best way to get them is through trades with other collectors. There is a booming, good-spirited community of NFT collectors -- like I said, they just don't make a lot of noise and they don't make for riveting content.

In general, I believe anything that can be done without a blockchain should be done without a blockchain. That includes digital items in games, and it includes forums.

Actually games was one of the great use cases I forgot about. There's some decent blockchain games in the works where in-game items owned by players are all NFTs. There's been a disconnect between videogame developer talent, blockchain talent, and marketing talent, where if one element is skewed too much the game fails. Most videogames fail, most altcoins fail, and most NFTs will fail as well, its just the nature of business and technological evolution. But that doesn't mean that someday a game won't get the balance right.

Decentraland, for instance, is shaping up to be really cool. I thoroughly enjoy wandering around in there, and they now have a VR-compatible build which is extra cool because it makes for a totally immersive experience.

I always thought Magic the Gathering would be ripe for blockchainization. Its just a matter of coding the game rules and making NFTs of all the cards... they would probably make a killing. I'd buy a pack for sure, so long as it wasn't ludicrously expensive.

There is some comfort in knowing that if you own a game item on-chain, it can never be taken away from you (unless you're hacked, of course) -- but more importantly, the developers can never remove it from your inventory.

Yeah sure, there's been a lot of bad NFT games made so far and some spectacular failures, but pointing to those instances as proof that the whole thing is dumb or useless is a self-serving exercise. Its akin to looking at early failures in solar power or electric vehicles as proof that the technology can never become viable. Bitcoin would have failed had it not been heavily worked upon by a dedicated group of individuals, all united by their passion to see it succeed.


BTW Loyce, not sure if you were aware of this, but everybody who gets married gets a marriage certificate...

[dkbit98]

Bitcoin solves a real world problem. NFTs, to me, are similar to altcoins, ICOs, DeFi, Forks and all other money grabbing things created to make the creator rich.

I have similar opinion like you about this, but this time NFT hype was much broader so you could even find NBA clubs and other sport teams introducing their won NFTs.
Problem I had was that most of this was build on crap ethereum blockchain, and we saw easy it was for this NFTs to be stolen, if hardware wallet was not used.
I am not sure if anything built on top of Bitcoin blockchain would have similar flaws or not, but let's not forget super high eth transaction fees that made any nft transaction almost impossible for regular people.

BTW Loyce, not sure if you were aware of this, but everybody who gets married gets a marriage certificate...

That is just modern legal stuff, and I am sure not going to use NFT for that.
Not long ago you didn't need to have any special certificate to prove you are married.
Than again you didn't need a license to ride a horse, or to own a gun, now you almost need a license for breathing and walking.
I don't think that NFT is some revolutionary new thing that will change world in any way, and I sure wont compare with with electric vehicles that is probably causing more harm than people think.
But hey, let's wait few years and will see how many people will actually drive (electric) cars and use NFTs. 

[Out of PATIENCE]

Speaking on NFT's in general, what's wrong with the physical representation of everything else?   There is something wrong with the physical representation of how the financial system existed, or still exists, so the digital representation of it through Bitcoin serves a great purpose.

With NFTs, I see more problems with theft and the mis-representation of physical or digital things being taken by others, simply in the name of some form of digital representation, by using NFTs, which is not Bitcoin. It can use it, sure, but it's not Bitcoin.

For this forum's profiles and users -- a digital representation already exists here. Why need to put it on the blockchain? Simply so we say it is on the blockchain?

What problems do most NFTs solve?  There could potentially be some use cases here where a digital representation of something might be useful, IF it can be trusted (maybe a form of voting?) but for the most part everything I've seen comes off as a gimmick.

That said, plenty of people around here fall for gimmicks, support gimmicks, and some of the gimmicks around here have sadly been going on for many years. I won't mention any names, lest I be labelled for libel or something, but you've done a good job on the site. I do wish you the best, I'm just not liking the majority of ideas behind NFTs.

[nutildah]

We've veered pretty far off from the main topic and its resulted in me attempting to defend the entirety of the NFT space, which is not really what I intended to do.

To get back to the basics:

My implementation of forum NFTs is designed to be a series of personalized collectibles, nothing more or less. I think they are pretty cool because unlike most NFTs, the image is dynamic and changes each time you update your avatar. At the same time their metadata is wholly immutable, and most importantly, tailored to your individual specifications.

At first I thought limiting the total supply to 1 would be a good idea, as that makes them truly non-fungible, but eddie13 pointed out it would be more fun to have higher supplies so that way peeps could trade them with each other (which is achievable in a trustless fashion using the Counterparty DEX). As I mention in the thread, you can even sell them for BTC via Dispenser or wrap them using Emblem Vault and sell them on OpenSea.

Now if your response is "so what, I don't care," that's fine. I guess what I take offense to the most is the idea that "all NFTs are worthless," which is clearly not true as people spend big bucks on them on a daily basis, even in the depths of a bear market.

It's a bit tiring hearing the same takes on collectible tokens since 2014 -- not a whole lot has changed in that regard. It just should be obvious by this point that a serious collector market has emerged for some of these things (some, mind you, not all), and its not going away. It will only get bigger as more people enter the crypto space during the next bull market, and accelerate as the world continues its transformation from physical to digital.

[Pmalek]

I have similar opinion like you about this, but this time NFT hype was much broader so you could even find NBA clubs and other sport teams introducing their won NFTs.

If it will bring them profit, they will take part in it. I don't look at sports and NFTs any more differently than selling club merchandise, VIP experiences, club museum tours, etc. It's additional revenue.

I guess what I take offense to the most is the idea that "all NFTs are worthless," which is clearly not true as people spend big bucks on them on a daily basis, even in the depths of a bear market.

That's not really an argument. People spend big money on heroin as well but it doesn't do them any good.
When a piece of unique physical artwork gets sold, you become the sole owner of it (assuming there are no other copies out there). If you hang it in your living room, that's the only place it can be enjoyed. When an NFT gets sold, everyone can still access it, look at it, download it, listen to it...
There is surely a lot of fake trading on these NFT marketplaces meant to give importance to certain pieces and try to trigger a higher price. Sell it to yourself a few times before you find a real buyer who decides to purchase it.

But I wish you luck with your project! If you are sure that what you are doing has some value, just go for it no matter what other people say. 

[nutildah]

OK, guess I'm going back to defending NFTs in their entirety.

I guess what I take offense to the most is the idea that "all NFTs are worthless," which is clearly not true as people spend big bucks on them on a daily basis, even in the depths of a bear market.

That's not really an argument. People spend big money on heroin as well but it doesn't do them any good.

Heroin has value to its users and is actually quite expensive compared to most other things by weight. I'm ignoring the moral and other implications of comparing NFTs to heroin, but if people pay money for things it means they see value in them. This does not have to match your personal assessments to be true.

When a piece of unique physical artwork gets sold, you become the sole owner of it (assuming there are no other copies out there). If you hang it in your living room, that's the only place it can be enjoyed. When an NFT gets sold, everyone can still access it, look at it, download it, listen to it...

You're describing all art on all mediums: it can be reproduced, photocopied, digitally transferred, counterfeited, forged. I can visit the Louvre and take a picture of the Mona Lisa, or hire a master forger to recreate it for me on canvas. I can make a photocopy of a Mickey Mantle rookie card. I can download Metallica's entire catalog from The Pirate Bay. With a lot of NFTs, the token is the art, and the token itself cannot be duplicated because it is accounted for by the blockchain.

There is surely a lot of fake trading on these NFT marketplaces meant to give importance to certain pieces and try to trigger a higher price. Sell it to yourself a few times before you find a real buyer who decides to purchase it.

This was already brought up. Yes, wash trading happens, just as it happens with every major cryptocurrency, including bitcoin.