This is the way a "bank loan" REALLY works.

[suchmoon]

Can you do this? Yes. But there might be early payment $penalties. They might be written right in the contract. But you can do it. According to the Uniform Commercial Code, the bank has to accept your payoff. If they don't, you are free from the loan, by law, because if the bank won't accept your payment, how can you pay them?

If you signed a contract that doesn't allow early repayment then it's your fault. If that's against the law in your jurisdiction then the contract is void but this doesn't mean you get free money... your side of the contract is void too, so you have to return the loan that you got.

The thing that you did in reality is to pre-pay-off your loan with the contract. How do we know? The bank ledger shows that they deposited your contract into an account, just like it was a check or money order. As far as the bank is concerned, it is money in (your contract), and money out (cash or bank check to you). It's a creation of new money. The FED even has pamphlets that say this in clever wording so that people don't easily figure it out. The bank doesn't lose anything in the deal.

Your contract is not money on its own. It has value only because of the promise to pay. It's an asset (not a "deposit" in an account) on the books of the bank and the value goes down as you repay the loan, eventually reaching zero and the end of the contract.

I am not present in any bank loan operations.

Then go get a loan and prove what you're saying. According to you it's free money so why wouldn't you do it?

But Tom Schauf was a bank CPA.

He was a "certified public accountant" in a bank? Which bank?

[BADecker]

Can you do this? Yes. But there might be early payment $penalties. They might be written right in the contract. But you can do it. According to the Uniform Commercial Code, the bank has to accept your payoff. If they don't, you are free from the loan, by law, because if the bank won't accept your payment, how can you pay them?

If you signed a contract that doesn't allow early repayment then it's your fault. If that's against the law in your jurisdiction then the contract is void but this doesn't mean you get free money... your side of the contract is void too, so you have to return the loan that you got.

'If' is a funny word. In the US, if the loan paperwork/contract is signed, that isn't what makes it mean something. The signed paperwork can sit there all century on the loan officer's desk, and it doesn't mean anything... except that the borrower HASN'T gotten his loan (yet). But that isn't why the loan officer wrote up the contract. He wrote it up because he wanted to give the borrower his loan.

If the paperwork/contract is accepted by the bank, what will they do, since the borrower prepaid his loan off with it? If he gets his loan money, that means they accepted his prepayment.

To keep from being illegal, many bank loans have a prepayment clause that states a penalty for paying the loan off early. So, simply pay the penalty and the borrower is free and clear... since he prepaid his loan with the loan paperwork.

The bank isn't going to take him to court for prepayment. And in the US, the loan falls into a private deal. So, government doesn't have anything to do with it until there is a complaint that the law was broken.

The thing that you did in reality is to pre-pay-off your loan with the contract. How do we know? The bank ledger shows that they deposited your contract into an account, just like it was a check or money order. As far as the bank is concerned, it is money in (your contract), and money out (cash or bank check to you). It's a creation of new money. The FED even has pamphlets that say this in clever wording so that people don't easily figure it out. The bank doesn't lose anything in the deal.

Your contract is not money on its own. It has value only because of the promise to pay. It's an asset (not a "deposit" in an account) on the books of the bank and the value goes down as you repay the loan, eventually reaching zero and the end of the contract.

Tom Schauf, a former bank CPA, shows that the bank treats the contract as a payment. Like I said, it can sit on the loan officer's desk all century, and it doesn't mean anything. It's when he deposits it that it becomes money. He can't do it alone - like if the borrower doesn't sign the contract - and the borrower can't do it alone, without the bank. But together, the bank and the borrower create new money.

HOWEVER, anybody can make new money if there are other people who accept it as money. Think of grocery store coupons. They are semi-private money. Any time something is traded among people, it approaches being money. If it is done the right way, it IS money, at least for them.

I am not present in any bank loan operations.

Then go get a loan and prove what you're saying. According to you it's free money so why wouldn't you do it?

It's tempting. But there are two points why I probably won't:

1. Every time money is added to the system, it makes all the rest of the money to be worth less. In other words, borrowers are stealing from everybody. And those who are poorest and can't get a loan, are the ones who are hurt the most.

2. I like to be straight forward with what I do. So, if I told the loan officer that I was prepaying the loan with the promissory note, wouldn't the bank suddenly find some reason to not trade money with me?

But Tom Schauf was a bank CPA.

He was a "certified public accountant" in a bank? Which bank?

You can search for his information just like I can. Get his address and phone and contact him. Search on "Tom Schauf, bank freedom." His name is Thomsas D. Schauf. I don't know for sure how old he is, but I don't think that he is 70 yet.

[suchmoon]

He was a "certified public accountant" in a bank? Which bank?

You can search for his information just like I can. Get his address and phone and contact him. Search on "Tom Schauf, bank freedom." His name is Thomsas D. Schauf. I don't know for sure how old he is, but I don't think that he is 70 yet.

You're the one making the claim, you should at least try to substantiate it. As far as I can tell this "Schauf" dude never worked in a bank and either has no clue how banks function, or is a crook making a few bucks off some "how to get free money" e-book. You might be complicit in his fraud by promoting him here.

[BADecker]

He was a "certified public accountant" in a bank? Which bank?

You can search for his information just like I can. Get his address and phone and contact him. Search on "Tom Schauf, bank freedom." His name is Thomsas D. Schauf. I don't know for sure how old he is, but I don't think that he is 70 yet.

You're the one making the claim, you should at least try to substantiate it. As far as I can tell this "Schauf" dude never worked in a bank and either has no clue how banks function, or is a crook making a few bucks off some "how to get free money" e-book. You might be complicit in his fraud by promoting him here.

You apparently haven't done your homework. After all, you are making a claim about my claim, and I have shown you where you can find the info.

Take a look at the OP. The OP is a tiny part of what there is to read about this whole thing. Rather than checking it out through searches, you seem to want me to post hundreds (thousands?) of pages here in Bitcointalk.

However, if you sincerely want to see that it is true and why, I will help you a little by offering you a search link that really works - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tom+Shauf%2C+bank+freedom&ia=web.

Since you don't seem to want to accept what I say, why should I say more for you? You simply don't want to believe it. So, when (if) you get sincere about it, do your searches and learn the info. Most of Tom's info is online already.

Or is it that you are upset because you don't have good enough credit to borrow money from a bank? And you are simply jealous of those who do?



EDIT: Try http://quartzmoon.com/bankdebt/bankloan.html.

[suchmoon]

Or is it that you are upset because you don't have good enough credit to borrow money from a bank? And you are simply jealous of those who do?

I think you got it backwards. I can borrow and I know reasonably well how that works. You don't and you refuse to even try while claiming it's free money. Something's not right here, it's almost like you're full of shit.

EDIT: Try http://quartzmoon.com/bankdebt/bankloan.html.

It doesn't say anything about him being a "bank CPA", so that's probably false too.

[BADecker]

Or is it that you are upset because you don't have good enough credit to borrow money from a bank? And you are simply jealous of those who do?

I think you got it backwards. I can borrow and I know reasonably well how that works. You don't and you refuse to even try while claiming it's free money. Something's not right here, it's almost like you're full of shit.

EDIT: Try http://quartzmoon.com/bankdebt/bankloan.html.

It doesn't say anything about him being a "bank CPA", so that's probably false too.

You're kinda funny. Just because one site doesn't say anything about him being a CPA, doesn't mean that a whole lot of other sites that you looked at don't say it. But...

I'll prove that the loan paperwork has value like money. It's real simple. You can prove it to yourself by getting a bank loan. And remember, this is for the US and Euro... but it is probably similar for many other countries and currencies. Here's the proof...

The setting: You are at the bank, ready to sign the last piece of paper to get you your loan, the promissory note. If you don't sign the paperwork, will the banker give you the loan? NO! Because there isn't any value in the paperwork without your signature on it. It's a valueless piece of paperwork.

If you sign the paperwork, then it has value. How much value? Value in the amount of the loan. Value that you are going to pay back the loan. It's written on the paperwork. What kinds of value does it have? Two value kinds in one:

1. It has value to the banker. We know it because he gives you your loan money... which he wouldn't do before it had value that you gave it by signing it.

2. Value in your promise to pay, because if you don't pay, he can get it out of you by taking you to court.


So, it's an even trade. Value for value. Your valuable promissory note, for his valuable cash or bank check. You did the terms on the promissory note by paying it off even before you got the loan. You didn't default on your loan... which you paid off even before you received the loan money.


Nobody needs Tom Schauf to understand this... except you. In your case, I probably messed with your thinking by throwing his name in there. Slow down a little, so that you can understand it. Take it one little step at a time, since you are having trouble understanding something so simple.

----------

The trick that is messing with your mind is like this little riddle story, which I have written before.

Back when hotel rooms were cheap, three strangers happened to meet at a hotel to get a room for the night.

The clerk said, "Sorry. We only have one room left. You three guys will have to decide amongst yourselves who will get the room. Or, if you want, you can all share the same room."

The guys talked it over, and decided to share the last room with each other.
The clerk charged them $10 each for the room, a total of $30.
The bellboy ran a couple of extra beds into the room.
The guys went up to their room.

Later, the clerk thought to himself, "$30 for that room was rather a lot." So he called the bellboy over, and gave him $5 to take up to the guys as a refund.

On his way up to the room in the elevator, the bellboy couldn't figure out how to divide $5 evenly among three guys. So, he decided to keep $2 as a tip.

When he got to the room, he gave each of the guys a dollar back. So, that means that the guys each paid $9. Three times $9 is $27... plus the $2 that the bellboy kept makes it $29. What happened to the thirtieth dollar?

----------

This whole riddle is based on a lie, as is the way the banking system loans money.

[suchmoon]

You're kinda funny. Just because one site doesn't say anything about him being a CPA, doesn't mean that a whole lot of other sites that you looked at don't say it.

Specifically "bank CPA". Was he ever employed at a bank? As a CPA? You keep repeating it as a fact so you must know the source, please share.

So, it's an even trade. Value for value. Your valuable promissory note, for his valuable cash or bank check. You did the terms on the promissory note by paying it off even before you got the loan. You didn't default on your loan... which you paid off even before you received the loan money.

Except you make the promissory note worthless if you don't intend to make the payments, so you'd be scamming the bank.

I don't believe you're too dumb to understand this so what's your point here? Can you get free money from the bank by taking a loan and not repaying it, or not? Legally. Without lawsuits/repossessions/collections. Yes or no?

When he got to the room, he gave each of the guys a dollar back. So, that means that the guys each paid $9. Three times $9 is $27... plus the $2 that the bellboy kept makes it $29. What happened to the thirtieth dollar?

PLUS? 27-2=25 any third-grader should be able to tell you that.

But if that's how you do math then I guess you could genuinely believe the "Schauf" BS.

[BADecker]

You're kinda funny. Just because one site doesn't say anything about him being a CPA, doesn't mean that a whole lot of other sites that you looked at don't say it.

Specifically "bank CPA". Was he ever employed at a bank? As a CPA? You keep repeating it as a fact so you must know the source, please share.

Ask him. You can search his contact info out.

So, it's an even trade. Value for value. Your valuable promissory note, for his valuable cash or bank check. You did the terms on the promissory note by paying it off even before you got the loan. You didn't default on your loan... which you paid off even before you received the loan money.

Except you make the promissory note worthless if you don't intend to make the payments, so you'd be scamming the bank.

I don't believe you're too dumb to understand this so what's your point here? Can you get free money from the bank by taking a loan and not repaying it, or not? Legally. Without lawsuits/repossessions/collections. Yes or no?

But that's the whole object. To make the promissory note to be worthless by paying it off. So, when you use the promissory note to pay off the loan before you even get the loan, the promissory note becomes worthless. And that's why the bank makes such a hassle for you if your don't make payments over the years. Because they sell your note like it has value. That's illegal.

I don't believe you're too dumb to understand this so what's your point here? When you prepay the loan, you don't get free money. You get paid-off money. An even trade... except if there is a prepayment penalty. You can't do this with your neighbor next door, except if he loves the heck out of you. But you can do it with the bank because it is written up in banking laws. The banks even say it in their explanation pamphlets, but very carefully so you don't really understand what they said.

When he got to the room, he gave each of the guys a dollar back. So, that means that the guys each paid $9. Three times $9 is $27... plus the $2 that the bellboy kept makes it $29. What happened to the thirtieth dollar?

PLUS? 27-2=25 any third-grader should be able to tell you that.

But if that's how you do math then I guess you could genuinely believe the "Schauf" BS.

Well, now you are only playing dumb. But that's okay. At least you are being honest-like.

[franky1]

badecker has it all wrong

firstly:
previous bank depositers are not having their value given to a borrower.

secondly:
signing a loan agreement is not you making a payment. badecker is stuck in some lame "freeman" mantra where he does not understand real life

so here goes

when people deposit into banks their (total) $500b. that paper money is burned and depositors are given a digital bank balance.

however without deleting customers deposit account balances. the bank is allowed to "create" inflation rate new bank deposits. but only to be used for mortgage/credit agreement pay outs to borrowers

so lets say its 5% inflation meaning a bank has a "pot"/allowance to create 25billion when a borrower signs the paper work

yes a borrower creates the money they sign.. even though its property of the bank where the bank is giving it to the borrower

the borrower didnt pre-pay into the bank his own loan
meanwhile
if there was say a loan for $200k at a 3% interest rate for 20 years

that amount handed to the borrower is spent(enters circulation)
where real estate developers, agents or home seller get that cash and put it into their bank accounts.

meaning the bank has total deposits of now $500,000,200,000 for that one agreement plus previous bank deposits.
but now only has an allowance of $23,999,800,000 to offer to borrowers

now behind the scenes of the bank/insurance market

the bank sees that as a future combined ROI of $266k
meaning a 1in3 risk of default they still break even

the bank does not want to wait for 20 years of small amount to re accumulate its allotment to then offer more loans

so it sells the agreement behind the scenes to insurance companies

insurance companies buy these for 2 reasons
1. they can hedge/bet on the % chance of the borrower making payment in full or defaulting.
2. with most mortgages there are stipulations that the borrower also takes out property insurance to protect the home from loss due to damage.

so the insurance company is also getting a side payment from the borrower direct, which hedges the loss if there was a problem

these agreements then become more a tradable asset of their own.
now back to the borrower
he is now paying the bank $1.1k a month to meet the terms of the agreement
which till by year 20 mean he has paid $266k in mortgage agreement payments into the bank

meaning the bank after 20 years has now combined bank account deposits of $200k and a return of 266k to the 'pot of allowance

in short.
if a bank can do $25bill of loans on a inflation rate of deposits of $500b deposits
at the end that deposits would be $525b of customers funds
which converts 26.26 loanable allowance to create next round(if no loans default)
and
8.33bill of interest profit(if no loans default)
and ontop of this a smaller amount from the back door deals of the agreement trades

[suchmoon]

Specifically "bank CPA". Was he ever employed at a bank? As a CPA? You keep repeating it as a fact so you must know the source, please share.

Ask him. You can search his contact info out.

Ok. So you made it up.

So, it's an even trade. Value for value. Your valuable promissory note, for his valuable cash or bank check. You did the terms on the promissory note by paying it off even before you got the loan. You didn't default on your loan... which you paid off even before you received the loan money.

Except you make the promissory note worthless if you don't intend to make the payments, so you'd be scamming the bank.

I don't believe you're too dumb to understand this so what's your point here? Can you get free money from the bank by taking a loan and not repaying it, or not? Legally. Without lawsuits/repossessions/collections. Yes or no?

But that's the whole object. To make the promissory note to be worthless by paying it off.

I'll take that as a "no".

[BADecker]

badecker has it all wrong

Coming from franky1, it's about as wrong as it can get.

firstly:
previous bank depositers are not having their value given to a borrower.

True. And BADecker never said that it was.

secondly:
signing a loan agreement is not you making a payment. badecker is stuck in some lame "freeman" mantra where he does not understand real life

Absolutely. Signing anything is not making a loan payment. Where do you get that idea from? Bank loan payments are not made until someone makes a payment AND the bank accepts the payment. If the bank doesn't accept the payment, it isn't a payment.

so here goes

when people deposit into banks their (total) $500b. that paper money is burned and depositors are given a digital bank balance.

however without deleting customers deposit account balances. the bank is allowed to "create" inflation rate new bank deposits. but only to be used for mortgage/credit agreement pay outs to borrowers

so lets say its 5% inflation meaning a bank has a "pot"/allowance to create 25billion when a borrower signs the paper work

yes a borrower creates the money they sign.. even though its property of the bank where the bank is giving it to the borrower

But all that stuff is or may be internal banking policy. It doesn't have anything to do with a borrower and his loan except that he is living in general society.

the borrower didnt pre-pay into the bank his own loan

But that isn't what the bank shows in its ledger.

When the bank accepts funds, it makes a notation of where the funds came from. Then, the funds are included in all banking funds for the bank in question. These funds are co-mingled with all the other funds that the bank receives.

It's the same in reverse when the bank removes funds - say, like for a loan. The funds are removed from the general funds in the bank, and a notation is made in the ledger what the funds are for.

The point is, when a borrower gets his loan, and then pays it off over the years, when is the bank ever going to return value to him for funding the loan in the first place, with his promissory note?

The whole bank process is like a bait and switch.

meanwhile
if there was say a loan for $200k at a 3% interest rate for 20 years

that amount handed to the borrower is spent(enters circulation)
where real estate developers, agents or home seller get that cash and put it into their bank accounts.

meaning the bank has total deposits of now $500,000,200,000 for that one agreement plus previous bank deposits.
but now only has an allowance of $23,999,800,000 to offer to borrowers

Except, in reality, since the bank ledger shows that the bank received funds in the amount of the loan from the borrower's promissory note, before the loan was ever made, there isn't any interest, because the loan was prepaid.

now behind the scenes of the bank/insurance market

the bank sees that as a future combined ROI of $266k
meaning a 1in3 risk of default they still break even

the bank does not want to wait for 20 years of small amount to re accumulate its allotment to then offer more loans

so it sells the agreement behind the scenes to insurance companies

insurance companies buy these for 2 reasons
1. they can hedge/bet on the % chance of the borrower making payment in full or defaulting.
2. with most mortgages there are stipulations that the borrower also takes out property insurance to protect the home from loss due to damage.

so the insurance company is also getting a side payment from the borrower direct, which hedges the loss if there was a problem

these agreements then become more a tradable asset of their own.

This is bank dealings, that they have been allowed to do by law and policy. It doesn't have anything to do with the borrower and his prepaid loan.

now back to the borrower
he is now paying the bank $1.1k a month to meet the terms of the agreement
which till by year 20 mean he has paid $266k in mortgage agreement payments into the bank

meaning the bank after 20 years has now combined bank account deposits of $200k and a return of 266k to the 'pot of allowance

in short.
if a bank can do $25bill of loans on a inflation rate of deposits of $500b deposits
at the end that deposits would be $525b of customers funds
which converts 26.26 loanable allowance to create next round(if no loans default)
and
8.33bill of interest profit(if no loans default)
and ontop of this a smaller amount from the back door deals of the agreement trades

Your major mistake in this is that the bank ledger shows that the borrower essentially funded his own loan with the promissory note.

The point is that the whole banking system is one of deceit, and is screwing the people out of a whole bunch of their labor... when they repay the loan over the years, rather than recognizing that they prepaid the loan in a creation of new money.

[BADecker]

Specifically "bank CPA". Was he ever employed at a bank? As a CPA? You keep repeating it as a fact so you must know the source, please share.

Ask him. You can search his contact info out.

Ok. So you made it up.

So, it's an even trade. Value for value. Your valuable promissory note, for his valuable cash or bank check. You did the terms on the promissory note by paying it off even before you got the loan. You didn't default on your loan... which you paid off even before you received the loan money.

Except you make the promissory note worthless if you don't intend to make the payments, so you'd be scamming the bank.

I don't believe you're too dumb to understand this so what's your point here? Can you get free money from the bank by taking a loan and not repaying it, or not? Legally. Without lawsuits/repossessions/collections. Yes or no?

But that's the whole object. To make the promissory note to be worthless by paying it off.

I'll take that as a "no".

I know, I know. Just because you stick your head in a hole in the sand, doesn't mean that you haven't poked it out of a different hole.

[BADecker]

But why would Biden want to defund the American Dollar? Because of what this thread is all about. The banks have been stealing money from common people since the formation of the Federal Reserve Bank. And the government has backed them in this process.

Even if this were not true, there are bank publications that explain it this way, along with websites that do the same. The people are finding out, and the banks need to change to slip out from under their liability or potential liability to the people. The Reset is a way to confuse the whole thing so that it will be more difficult than ever for the people to get their money back from the banks.


BREAKING: Global Banks Support Biden's Move to "Defund the Dollar"

Sponsored by the New York Federal Reserve, participants in this plan include banking giants like Wells Fargo, Citigroup, HSBC and Mastercard, just to name a few.

The pilot program – dubbed "Project Cedar" – would convert regular U.S. dollars into a brand-new type of dollar, which could have massive implications for all American citizens.

But "Project Cedar" is just the second step in a complete overhaul of the U.S. banking system.

The first step was announced on March 9, 2022, when President Biden signed Executive Order 14067.

This Executive Order gave legal provisions for this new U.S. dollar, and could give the U.S. government unprecedented control over your money and freedom.

In fact, it could even pave the way for things like:

Legal government surveillance of all U.S. citizens

Total control over your bank accounts and purchases

And the ability to silence all dissenting voices for good

 
"I've been warning about this for months," says renowned macroeconomist Jim Rickards.

"Now with the launch of 'Project Cedar', the wheels are fully in motion – and I don't believe anything can stop it."

Mr. Rickards is one of the world's foremost financial experts, and has been a respected advisor to the CIA, the Pentagon and multiple U.S. presidents.

...

[mvdheuvel1983]

And that is why banks hate bitcoin.

Because if everyone transacts with it, nobody will take fiat loans from the bank, so the bank will have no more "deposits" to lend, no interest to collect and their revenue would go to zero.

Many countries, not just banks, despise bitcoin.
Can you imagine, for example, how bad it would be for America if many countries abruptly ceased to accept the USD or declared that it was worth 70% less than it had been a month earlier? We are aware that the outcome would be a complete and total collapse of the American economy.
And without any other options available to America, this could result in a significant increase in prices everywhere.

[BADecker]

And that is why banks hate bitcoin.

Because if everyone transacts with it, nobody will take fiat loans from the bank, so the bank will have no more "deposits" to lend, no interest to collect and their revenue would go to zero.

Many countries, not just banks, despise bitcoin.
Can you imagine, for example, how bad it would be for America if many countries abruptly ceased to accept the USD or declared that it was worth 70% less than it had been a month earlier? We are aware that the outcome would be a complete and total collapse of the American economy.
And without any other options available to America, this could result in a significant increase in prices everywhere.

But this is the exact thing that is happening to America. The banks are creating more money to give to Ukraine to destroy Russia with. And as that money filters back into the US, we have massive inflation. Other countries don't like this, so they are gradually going where it is a bit more stable... BRICS.

So, it is the US banking system destroying itself by US greed... to steal Russian and Siberia from the current owners.