Rumors of Bitcoin's libertarian death have been greatly exaggerated.

[amspir]

Somalia is an example of post-Gov chaos, NOT a libertarian experiment.

Ah, so it doesn't fit the philosophies of extremist libertarian manifestos.   In what ways has the failed state of Somalia differed in the practice of utopia-libertarianism?   I honestly want to know.

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[coincoin3]

Bitcoin does not rely on the government, a new invention and great money. I have always believed that.

[TheButterZone]

I love when people call a government that's gotten off to exactly the right foot for tyranny (throwing people in prison and/or killing them for mere possession of "illegal" arms) a failed state.

[xDan]

Bitcoin exists, therefore all is well with the world, and the libertarians and crypto anarchists can rest and watch with smug and knowing eyes from the distance as slowly, something amazing begins to happen...

Their once weak and needy offspring has now turned into a tough and resilient young adult, casting its eyes around for freakin' countries to conquer.

[timecoin]

Bitcoin does not rely on the government, a new invention and great money. I have always believed that.

Personally, I, as an urban dweller, see broadband internet as means for rural dweller to not remain backwards and ignorant, and get exposed to other views.   Instead, they are led by the nose by two of the richest oligarch brothers in America through shadowy "grass roots" organizations that they fund from their Upper West Side penthouse in Manhattan, and they get them to vote against their own self-interests.   They have an extreme hatred for heathcare.gov, even though they've never seen the website and objectively made up their minds.  But that's just me.

Without a subsidy to jump start the investment needed in infra-structure, rural dwellers are going to wait a long, long time until the free market solution finally allows them access.  Meanwhile, the urban dwellers have the advantage of the information economy, and they don't and society stratifies.

[cryptoanarchist]

Have you even been to Somalia? What are you basing your knowledge of its current condition on? "Captain Phillips" with Tom Hanks??

I refuse to see that movie, because it glorifies the mighty power of the US Navy brought to bear on a bunch of skinny teenagers.   I read a lot; but no, I have never been there, have you?

I've never been there, and so I don't use living conditions there as an argument for or against government. I'm fairly certain they are more primitive there, but as far as their freedom goes under different conditions and degrees of government, I think someone who actually lives there could give a better evaluation.

Bitcoin exists, therefore all is well with the world, and the libertarians and crypto anarchists can rest and watch with smug and knowing eyes from the distance as slowly, something amazing begins to happen...

Their once weak and needy offspring has now turned into a tough and resilient young adult, casting its eyes around for freakin' countries to conquer.

Yup.

Money is the root. It is called currency because it is like the electrical system of any body or machine: It controls everything else. If you have a hierarchical-pyramid system, like we have now, all other systems become hierarchical as well. If you have a decentralized system like cryptocoins, everything else will become decentralized.

Bitcoin will dissolve governments by simply being more efficient - no PR campaign or persuasion necessary.

[Peter R]

If you have a hierarchical-pyramid system, like we have now, all other systems become hierarchical as well. If you have a decentralized system like cryptocoins, everything else will become decentralized.

That is an interesting analogy and quite correct I believe.  Thank you for that. 

[Bit_Happy]

If you have a hierarchical-pyramid system, like we have now, all other systems become hierarchical as well. If you have a decentralized system like cryptocoins, everything else will become decentralized.

That is an interesting analogy and quite correct I believe.  Thank you for that. 

If you have a decentralized system like cryptocoins, everything else will become decentralized.
No way...
Gox...Bitcoin Foundation, etc.
We need to fight to support decentralized projects, and it doesn't "just happen."

[amspir]

I love when people call a government that's gotten off to exactly the right foot for tyranny (throwing people in prison and/or killing them for mere possession of "illegal" arms) a failed state.

You are talking about a government less than three year old, that barely holds on to Mogadishu.   If extreme libertarians wanted to support the libertarian paradise, then they would flock to Somalia and participate in assassination politics to keep a centralized government from forming that controls all of Somalia.  It shouldn't be hard to do at present, with enough guns.

[amspir]

If extreme libertarians wanted to support the libertarian paradise, then they would flock to Somalia and participate in assassination politics to keep a centralized government from forming that controls all of Somalia.

Wut?

Just to be clear, it is a hypothetical.   I'd like an extremist libertarian to explain how Somalia differs from a libertarian utopia, just like I'd ask an ideological communist why the Soviet Union didn't turn out to be the worker's paradise that Karl Marx envisioned.

So far the only answer presented is that a very young, internationally recognized government that has held the majority of the capital city for less than three years, is to blame.

[marcus_of_augustus]

If extreme libertarians wanted to support the libertarian paradise, then they would flock to Somalia and participate in assassination politics to keep a centralized government from forming that controls all of Somalia.

Wut?

Just to be clear, it is a hypothetical.   I'd like an extremist libertarian to explain how Somalia differs from a libertarian utopia, just like I'd ask an ideological communist why the Soviet Union didn't turn out to be the worker's paradise that Karl Marx envisioned.

So far the only answer presented is that a very young, internationally recognized government that has held the majority of the capital city for less than three years, is to blame.

I think mostly you'd just like to boost your post count .... all of your stupid questions (and straw arguments) are answered quite well elsewhere in numerous publications over many years already. Just get out there and research, if you are genuine, which I highly suspect not.

[cryptoanarchist]

If you have a hierarchical-pyramid system, like we have now, all other systems become hierarchical as well. If you have a decentralized system like cryptocoins, everything else will become decentralized.

That is an interesting analogy and quite correct I believe.  Thank you for that. 

If you have a decentralized system like cryptocoins, everything else will become decentralized.
No way...
Gox...Bitcoin Foundation, etc.
We need to fight to support decentralized projects, and it doesn't "just happen."

yeah, actually it does. Just creating a decentralized system doesn't erase hierarchical systems or beliefs overnight. 99.99% of the human population still have hierarchy-on-the-brain, mainly because the fiat-pyramid-hierarchical monetary system is STILL the main system by a vast margin.

The fact that Gox has died a relatively quick death, and that the foundation is following behind is actually proof of just how quick things are starting to change.

[amspir]

The fact that Gox has died a relatively quick death, and that the foundation is following behind is actually proof of just how quick things are starting to change.

Proof that a free market works, over a banking system that extorts the government and demands a socialization of losses rather than failure.

[Elwar]

So far the only answer presented is that a very young, internationally recognized government that has held the majority of the capital city for less than three years, is to blame.

While a young, internationally attacked non-government is supposed to represent the ideal libertarian utopia?

[Bit_Happy]

If extreme libertarians wanted to support the libertarian paradise, then they would flock to Somalia and participate in assassination politics to keep a centralized government from forming that controls all of Somalia. 

Wut?

Just to be clear, it is a hypothetical.   I'd like an extremist libertarian to explain how Somalia differs from a libertarian utopia, just like I'd ask an ideological communist why the Soviet Union didn't turn out to be the worker's paradise that Karl Marx envisioned.

Why are we comparing Somalia to a libertarian utopia in the first place?

Sadly it's a common smear of libertarianism these days.
Clearly a buy-product of rheally pour sckooling.

[amspir]

Sadly it's a common smear of libertarianism these days.
Clearly a buy-product of rheally pour sckooling.

I'm just asking what the difference is.  If you are unable to explain, then I don't think you have a firm understanding of your philosophy.  I honestly want to know.  It's not a smear.   

If you actually have a valid argument as to why Somalia doesn't represent a libertarian utopia, then I may use it myself to argue the other way in the future.

You really don't have to feel insulted when your way of thinking is challenged.

[cryptoanarchist]

Sadly it's a common smear of libertarianism these days.
Clearly a buy-product of rheally pour sckooling.

I'm just asking what the difference is.  If you are unable to explain, then I don't think you have a firm understanding of your philosophy.  I honestly want to know.  It's not a smear.   

If you actually have a valid argument as to why Somalia doesn't represent a libertarian utopia, then I may use it myself to argue the other way in the future.

You really don't have to feel insulted when your way of thinking is challenged.

The burden of proof is on you. You used Somalia as an example first, while admitting you never lived there and really don't know the situation. So why are you even bringing it up?

The idea of having a government isn't something that needs examples - its just logic and morality. Its a simple question: Should goods and services be provided at the barrel of a gun? If you think yes, you're an authoritarian and a psychopath. If you say no, you're an anarchist.

[amspir]

The burden of proof is on you. You used Somalia as an example first, while admitting you never lived there and really don't know the situation. So why are you even bringing it up?

From my understanding, through reading about the place, I understand Somalia to be:
1) Not to possess a centralized government.  There is an official government that occupies most of the capital, but it currently does not control the country.
2) No taxation that is enforced.
3) No regulations that are enforced.
4) Has no gun ownership restrictions that are enforced.

These qualities appear to be the qualities that an extreme libertarian desires in a theoretical libertarian utopia.  I simply want to know why an extreme libertarian does not consider Somalia to be a utopia.

The idea of having a government isn't something that needs examples - its just logic and morality. Its a simple question: Should goods and services be provided at the barrel of a gun? If you think yes, you're an authoritarian and a psychopath. If you say no, you're an anarchist.

That's the problem with extreme ideas, is that you do not consider any possibility between authoritarianism and anarchy.  And morality is subjective.  Ayn Rand believed it moral to be selfish, yet died while accepting social security in her final years.

[God]

That's the problem with extreme ideas, is that you do not consider any possibility between authoritarianism and anarchy.  And morality is subjective.  Ayn Rand believed it moral to be selfish, yet died while accepting social security in her final years.

Uhm, if you should act selfish, It's perfectly rational to get some of what you paid in taxes back later. So I see nothing wrong from Ayn Raind cashing her social security checks.

[cryptoanarchist]

That's the problem with extreme ideas, is that you do not consider any possibility between authoritarianism and anarchy.  And morality is subjective.  Ayn Rand believed it moral to be selfish, yet died while accepting social security in her final years.

You can answer the question, or be ignored - doesn't matter much either way to me:

Do you think it is ok for goods and services to be provided at the barrel of a gun?

Yes, or No.