FTX comedy and might be another exchange that bites the dust?

[bbc.reporter]

I was very bullish on FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried and have also predicted that it might kill Binance and become the king of centralized exchanges. However, it appears I have another prediction wrong hehehe. This review by Coindesk on a private document says that much of FTX's equity is on their exchange token FTT and much of Alameda Research's equity is on illiquid tokens that they created and issued in Solana. The tokens are MAPS, OXY, SRM and FIDA.

They cannot sell them without dumping the market lower. Would it be correct for me to speculate that FTX might be insolvent or is this review on a private document which we are uncertain where it came from just another fud from Coindesk?



Billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried’s cryptocurrency empire is officially broken into two main parts: FTX (his exchange) and Alameda Research (his trading firm), both giants in their respective industries.

But even though they are two separate businesses, the division breaks down in a key place: on Alameda’s balance sheet, according to a private financial document reviewed by CoinDesk. (It is conceivable the document represents just part of Alameda.)

That balance sheet is full of FTX – specifically, the FTT token issued by the exchange that grants holders a discount on trading fees on its marketplace. While there is nothing per se untoward or wrong about that, it shows Bankman-Fried’s trading giant Alameda rests on a foundation largely made up of a coin that a sister company invented, not an independent asset like a fiat currency or another crypto. The situation adds to evidence that the ties between FTX and Alameda are unusually close.

Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/02/divisions-in-sam-bankman-frieds-crypto-empire-blur-on-his-trading-titan-alamedas-balance-sheet/

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[NotATether]

I don't think FTX is going down any time soon but the same cannot be said for Alameda Research should FTX decide that dumping those illiquid tokens are necessary to protect themselves.

Of course all shots will be called by SBF, and he will obviously make maneuvers that best protect his financial interests.

[mk4]

Huge emphasis on the part that the document contains incomplete data about Alameda. We can't know for sure unless we know the entire story, but I doubt FTX/Alameda is in trouble. Very unlikely that those 4 tokens(probably along with SOL) make up a huge pie of Alameda/FTX's assets.

[stompix]

I was very bullish on FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried and have also predicted that it might kill Binance and become the king of centralized exchanges.

And I was telling you he is a wannabe JP Morgan and from the looks of it might end like JT Heath (the guy was lynched).

No wonder he has become so eager to see everything regulated and which that much emphasis in his speech on stablecoins and tokens, he knows that with one wrong step, and FTX token is in trouble, and if that happens the rest goes like a house of cards without a money printing machine, nobody with a brain isn't aware of that after the latest series of fiascos, and he, with his involvements in voyager and celsius knows very well what happens.

That being said, FTX the exchange won't go down, the thing is just way too profitable, but the empire that he wants to create for our sake might not see the end of this bear season.

[dkbit98]

They cannot sell them without dumping the market lower. Would it be correct for me to speculate that FTX might be insolvent or is this review on a private document which we are uncertain where it came from just another fud from Coindesk?

Sam invested and donated lot of money to politician so I don't think he and his exchange will be in trouble any time soon, but he is also a shitcoiner who only cares about profit.
That is why I was not really surprised when I heard he want's to have more centralization and more regulations in cryptocurrency space.
On positive side, I have to give him small credits for still keeping Bitcoin withdrawals totally free without any fees charged on FTX exchange.
On negative side.... better watch short video posted below, and don't keep any coins on FTX.

Why I Think Sam Bankman-Fried is a Fake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D5PcagsgDQ

[NeuroticFish]

On positive side, I have to give him small credits for still keeping Bitcoin withdrawals totally free without any fees charged on FTX exchange.

This is just a business strategy to get a bigger number of customers. It can also be a strategy to gather as much KYC data as he can... and I don't want to think what he can use that for.

I agree he's fake. I agree that all he cares about is profit and jumping heavily into "crypto" may hurt his finances badly if bitcoin bull market doesn't come quick and save him.
I think that the only correct morale of the story is "never keep too much money and for too long in custodial accounts" (eg exchanges). Not only FTX.

[dkbit98]

This is just a business strategy to get a bigger number of customers. It can also be a strategy to gather as much KYC data as he can...

Maybe, but you can still use FTX exchange without passing any KYC verification (.com version), you will be very limited for withdrawal amount per day, but it will still be usable.
Now, that doesn't meant thex can't ask you for verification at any time, just like any other centralized exchange can do, so I am not really recommending them

[AB de Royse777]

Maybe this is off-topic, I don't know. I heard from a friend that Huobi was scamming their users by giving misleading information. Now they are denying their wrong part. It happened sometimes in the last 24 hours. It has something to do with "Gala" (token or something).

[buwaytress]

This is just a business strategy to get a bigger number of customers. It can also be a strategy to gather as much KYC data as he can...

Maybe, but you can still use FTX exchange without passing any KYC verification (.com version), you will be very limited for withdrawal amount per day, but it will still be usable.

Try signing up with a throwaway account. I guarantee in the future you'll suddenly be getting invites and spam from new crypto opportunities or ventures down the road from questionable startups. Shady begets shady. All exchanges do that, I feel, judging from how bloated my throwaways have become, and when the breadcrumbs lead to them, it's a simple: damn our data storage guys were compromised.

[o_e_l_e_o]

While there is nothing per se untoward or wrong about that, it shows Bankman-Fried’s trading giant Alameda rests on a foundation largely made up of a coin that a sister company invented, not an independent asset like a fiat currency or another crypto.

Their users won't care. Look at Bitfinex. They do exactly the same thing and worse with Tether. They even printed $800 billion USDT out of thin air and then loaned it to themselves to prevent Bitfinex from going bankrupt, and yet somehow both Bitfinex and Tether continue to grow and be ever more widely used. You can do pretty much any shady stuff you like in crypto and still attract morons to give you their money.

After seeing the incredibly shady stuff platforms like Celsius and Voyager were doing, then I have no doubt whatsoever that FTX are also doing similar things behind the scenes. This revelation is probably the least of it.

All exchanges do that, I feel, judging from how bloated my throwaways have become, and when the breadcrumbs lead to them, it's a simple: damn our data storage guys were compromised.

You should work on the assumption that any and all data you give to a centralized exchange, from an email address to a scan of your passport, will eventually be sold, shared, or leaked to a variety of third parties.

[dkbit98]

Maybe this is off-topic, I don't know. I heard from a friend that Huobi was scamming their users by giving misleading information. Now they are denying their wrong part. It happened sometimes in the last 24 hours. It has something to do with "Gala" (token or something).

I don't think they scamming but I heard they are delisting their own ''stable coin'' HUSD that crashed hard and it's now way below 1$ peg, so it could be something related with that.

Try signing up with a throwaway account. I guarantee in the future you'll suddenly be getting invites and spam from new crypto opportunities or ventures down the road from questionable startups. Shady begets shady. All exchanges do that, I feel, judging from how bloated my throwaways have become, and when the breadcrumbs lead to them, it's a simple: damn our data storage guys were compromised.

I am always using junk addresses for cases like this, and so far I didn't receive any spam emails from FTX exchange.
That means for each exchange I use dedicated email address that is (usually) not connected with any other service, so I am sure about source if something spam-like comes.
This is never connected with my real identity and I never send them any documents, this is just for testing purposes

You should work on the assumption that any and all data you give to a centralized exchange, from an email address to a scan of your passport, will eventually be sold, shared, or leaked to a variety of third parties.

Yeah, and that can happen to anything you register online, it doesn't have to be crypto related stuff.

[stompix]

You can do pretty much any shady stuff you like in crypto and still attract morons to give you their money.

And not only that, it's actually worse.
The same morons will defend this fiat coin to the death, arguing that money printing is not bad because is backed by the same printer, that the coins are secure because that's what some random guy on Twitter said, and most important, it can't fail because he has some, and this will lead to more and more falling for this "stable coin".

I am sure that despite the whole luna/terra fiasco, despite the fact that everyone is saying look what happened, you need to be careful, despite all the sob stories on Twitter from the victims, the same "investors" who put their money in just to keep them safe will again fall for the next scam or failure. And when that happens I'm willing to bet that at least a big portion of the ones screaming how they lost everything with tether are the ones that screamed they have lost everything with ust.

And it will keep on going like this forever, no coin can fix human nature, but human nature can destroy any coin.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The same morons will defend this fiat coin to the death, arguing that money printing is not bad because is backed by the same printer, that the coins are secure because that's what some random guy on Twitter said, and most important, it can't fail because he has some, and this will lead to more and more falling for this "stable coin".

USDT is the prime example of this. I cannot fathom why anyone stills trusts this absolute junk. First they said it was backed up 1-to-1 with USD. Then they said it was backed up 1-to-1 with USD and other assets. Then they dropped the 1-to-1 claim altogether, with court documents showing as little as 14% of USDT was actually backed up. Those same documents showed that Bitfinex transferred hundreds of millions of dollars to Tether on the day of their independent audits, and then transferred it all back out again the next day.

It later emerged that these "other assets" they claimed included uncollateralized loan repayments, including loan repayments to themselves from the $800 billion USDT they printed out of thin air and gave to themselves. They also included bitcoin they had purchased with the USDT they first printed. Print USDT out of thin air -> buy bitcoin with it -> claim USDT is now backed up with bitcoin. Unbelievable. And since all these revelations that USDT is an insolvent fractional reserve scam, its market cap has grown to $70 billion. The day it finally collapses a lot of people will lose a lot of money, but they can't say they weren't warned. The writing is on the wall.

And then look at centralized lending/staking platforms. Even after Celsius and Voyager collapse, people are still using such platforms. Even after BlockFi revealed they needed a bail out to the tune of $250 million, people are still depositing their coins there.

And throughout all these scams, Ponzis, insolvencies, bankruptcies, and more, I'm just sitting over here quietly using bitcoin peer to peer, as was intended in the first place, having never lost a single satoshi.

[stompix]

They also included bitcoin they had purchased with the USDT they first printed. Print USDT out of thin air -> buy bitcoin with it -> claim USDT is now backed up with bitcoin. Unbelievable.

That's what happens when you adopt a legit way of getting a loan to a money printing scheme, in a normal business procedure if a company would be offering you a special loan in which you would have to use a part of the funds for assets that can be collateralized and be part of your manufacturing or whatever your business type is, it would be legit, just as a stretch from issuing shares for expansion would come close to this.

What they are doing is just on a different level, I'm still surprised why the US is still letting them roam fee, but I'm pretty sure if one government agency will ask them to provide the proofs they are not operating like either a fractional reserve or a Ponzi scheme there will be thousands who is defended tether and blame everything on the evil gubbermint.

And then look at centralized lending/staking platforms. Even after Celsius and Voyager collapse, people are still using such platforms. Even after BlockFi revealed they needed a bail out to the tune of $250 million, people are still depositing their coins there.

Remember what I was telling you about how some defend Tether or at least are gullible enough to repeat what others tell them till it ends all over the internet?

The Tether Business Model – How Does Tether Make Money

Loans
Tether, furthermore, makes money from issuing loans to other businesses and institutions that then pay interest on those loans. 
In October 2021, for instance, Tether loaned $1 billion to Celsius Network, which is a cryptocurrency lender.

I'm just sitting over here quietly using bitcoin peer to peer, as was intended in the first place, having never lost a single satoshi.

But, but, you're losing the opportunity to lose all your money 

[o_e_l_e_o]

What they are doing is just on a different level, I'm still surprised why the US is still letting them roam fee, but I'm pretty sure if one government agency will ask them to provide the proofs they are not operating like either a fractional reserve or a Ponzi scheme there will be thousands who is defended tether and blame everything on the evil gubbermint.

Stablecoin regulation is not far off, particularly because they directly compete with the CBDCs that most governments want to implement in the near future. And once Tether start getting audited properly, you better make sure you are not holding too much USDT (or any other stablecoin for that matter). And lets not even mention that just like CBDCs they are completely centralized and even coins in your own wallets can be remotely frozen or seized against your will.

This FTX nonsense is just the same. Shady stuff going on behind the scenes, entire ecosystem built on top of a token they can print out of thin air at will and then lend/give to themselves, questionable loans and acquisitions, and users with absolutely no idea what happens to any coins they deposit to the site. As with any other exchange or any other centralized shitcoin, the advice remains the same - get bitcoin, and get it in to your own wallet.

But, but, you're losing the opportunity to lose all your money  

And yet, I'm the toxic bitcoin maxi because I advise people not to lose their money on scams and shitcoins.

[buwaytress]

All exchanges do that, I feel, judging from how bloated my throwaways have become, and when the breadcrumbs lead to them, it's a simple: damn our data storage guys were compromised.

You should work on the assumption that any and all data you give to a centralized exchange, from an email address to a scan of your passport, will eventually be sold, shared, or leaked to a variety of third parties.

I do. I've also now added to my assumptions that the right to be forgotten (GDPR) will not be respected. And with financial institutions (exchanges fall under this category in the EU I believe), they actually have the right to retain information even should you request this because of AML laws which warrant them keeping it (I believe, for 7 years).

There needs to be a service that propagates misidentification to confuse all these bloody resellers. I'd pay to have a wrong profile of me stored and uploaded everywhere.

And yet, I'm the toxic bitcoin maxi because I advise people not to lose their money on scams and shitcoins.

Unsung heroes actually are sung about a lot, with shitty lyrics

[Lucius]

As soon as I see that some crypto exchange is launching its token, it is clear to me what their priority is. There is not much difference between all those CEOs who are at least hypocritical bastards who say one thing and do something completely different - and when someone attacks Bitcoin, then they offer help in the form of some shitcoins platforms or turn their heads the other way.

Unfortunately for the minority that tries to protect their privacy and promote decentralization, the majority is so blinded by these people as some kind of crypto leaders who do good for the community, and they will stab us in the back whenever they get the chance.

#More DEX less CEX

[Rikafip]

Earlier today I stumbled upon Twitter thread that speculated Binance moved 23 million FTT tokens worth $530 million to their exchange with the obvious intention to sell it all, and just now I saw CZ tweet in which he confirms that indeed they decided to get rid off all FTT. Could it be that rats are already leaving the ship?


https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1589283421704290306?s=20&t=aaBCRda_K6sA-0n5k2Dfbg

[Pmalek]

Maybe, but you can still use FTX exchange without passing any KYC verification (.com version), you will be very limited for withdrawal amount per day, but it will still be usable.

Are you sure that is still the case? I heard they introduced KYC a few months ago. This article from their help center confirms that. If you are unverified, it says all you can do is browse around and explore the site. To get a $2.000 per day withdrawal limit equivalent in crypto, you need to pass level 1 KYC. But they don't require the submission of scanned copies of identity documents. 

[dkbit98]

Earlier today I stumbled upon Twitter thread that speculated Binance moved 23 million FTT tokens worth $530 million to their exchange with the obvious intention to sell it all, and just now I saw CZ tweet in which he confirms that indeed they decided to get rid off all FTT. Could it be that rats are already leaving the ship?

Who knows what CZ is doing, and I never trust anything he is saying, but it's possible they are going to make some planned collapse soon.

Are you sure that is still the case? I heard they introduced KYC a few months ago. This article from their help center confirms that. If you are unverified, it says all you can do is browse around and explore the site. To get a $2.000 per day withdrawal limit equivalent in crypto, you need to pass level 1 KYC. But they don't require the submission of scanned copies of identity documents.  

I am sure, but you don't have to believe me.
Tier 1 is not really a kyc verification, and you can write there anything you want, but there is always a risk they can later ask you to send them documents, like any other centralized exchange.
I spoke about it before, I have the account and I know what I am saying, I am not talking in relative terms, in metaphors and in theories.


fresh screenshot

[bbc.reporter]

Earlier today I stumbled upon Twitter thread that speculated Binance moved 23 million FTT tokens worth $530 million to their exchange with the obvious intention to sell it all, and just now I saw CZ tweet in which he confirms that indeed they decided to get rid off all FTT. Could it be that rats are already leaving the ship?


https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1589283421704290306?s=20&t=aaBCRda_K6sA-0n5k2Dfbg

CZ and Sam have been sharing passive aggressive tweets against each other. CZ's intention is certainly to destroy Sam's kingdom. I am also quite certain that CZ knows Alameda Research has borrowings collaterized with FTT. If the price of this continues to dump, those loans might get liquidated and cause another spiral of market dumps because the money from those borrowings might be invested in the cryptospace market through leveraged positions and market making.

My speculation is if liquidated, will it cause another dump similar to Luna's failure and 3 Arrows Capital's liquidation. This would certainly cause bitcoin to dump lower than $20,000 again.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

Good to know it's still working without KYC. In that case, they are lying about the requirements in the official documentation. If you check the source I linked to, you will see that everything matches with what I said in the previous post. Maybe the exchange was under regulatory pressure (like most CEXs) to implement KYC and they just did it on paper, while in reality there is still no need for it.

[NeuroticFish]

CZ's intention is certainly to destroy Sam's kingdom.

While FTX is still rather small, they had aggressive advertising and many have foreseen FTX as the one that will soon replace Binance as pretty much the top CEX around.
Of course that now, with FTT in trouble, CZ has found the best moment to liquidate his stash and cause even more problems to the competitor.
Will this destroy FTX? I don't know. But it will most probably show that its place is not on top.

[stompix]

Earlier today I stumbled upon Twitter thread that speculated Binance moved 23 million FTT tokens worth $530 million to their exchange with the obvious intention to sell it all, and just now I saw CZ tweet in which he confirms that indeed they decided to get rid off all FTT. Could it be that rats are already leaving the ship?

Hmm, does anyone have an estimate on the speed of those rats or an ETA on their evacuation?
There are still 3 weeks left till Black Friday and I don't want to miss it but at the same time, I don't want to spend the full price for a 1l per-minute popcorn machine that should would be needed when this happens.

With every day that passes the whole Defi/Cex/Stable coins/whatever shitshow is just getting worse, I was telling some a few years ago that we're sliding with those to things that match the whole WS manipulation, but now it's more and more like it, the whole crypto industry is starting to look more and more like traditional markets and unfortunately, the first things that resemble each-other are the bad things.

While FTX is still rather small, they had aggressive advertising and many have foreseen FTX as the one that will soon replace Binance as pretty much the top CEX around.

It might be small if we trust Binance numbers, but remember that CZ was the architect behind that incredible volume at OKCoin when everyone knew the numbers are fake, so how much of what Binance claims is true?

[NeuroticFish]

While FTX is still rather small, they had aggressive advertising and many have foreseen FTX as the one that will soon replace Binance as pretty much the top CEX around.

It might be small if we trust Binance numbers, but remember that CZ was the architect behind that incredible volume at OKCoin when everyone knew the numbers are fake, so how much of what Binance claims is true?

This is correct. On the other hand, I hope that you realize that the chances are slim that it's only Binance faking their volumes (and FSX is not). So I'd take absolutely every exchanges' volumes with quite a pinch of salt.
And just the fact Binance's shitcoin does much better than FTX's shitcoin tells that CZ must be doing something better than SBF, even if that's only the playing the smokes and mirrors game.


Edit: fixed typo

[o_e_l_e_o]

Something's certainly going down at FTX: https://nitter.it/BITCOINALLCAPS/status/1589403113412497408

Withdrawals not being processed and being staggered due to excessive congestion. Bear in mind this is exactly how the collapse of platforms like Celsius and Voyager started, all while their CEOs endlessly tweeted "FuNdS aRe SaFu".

Meanwhile, their coin is hitting both year low prices and year low amounts in reserve: https://nitter.it/ki_young_ju/status/1589396703421272064

If you have any coins on FTX, withdraw them immediately before you potentially end up losing everything like users of Celsius and Voyager did. If you are holding any FTT, time to sell it before there isn't enough liquidity for everyone and a bank run happens.

[DaveF]

Start rumor that bank is insolvent.
People run to withdraw funds.
Bank becomes less stable as they move funds to cover withdraws.
People see withdrawal delays.
More people panic and try to withdraw funds.

Not quite the same here, but that is kind of the point.

I don't trust centralized exchanges and neither should you, but because a competitor (with their own centralized token) is just not good business.

Are they going to implode, don't know and don't care. Neither should you, since you should not have any funds there or on any exchnage.

As for the delays, could be lack of funds, could be they don't have enough in their hot wallet and they have enough security in place that they need X number of people to move funds from cold storage and then they can only move X at a time. That's just good security.

-Dave

[dkbit98]

Good to know it's still working without KYC. In that case, they are lying about the requirements in the official documentation. If you check the source I linked to, you will see that everything matches with what I said in the previous post. Maybe the exchange was under regulatory pressure (like most CEXs) to implement KYC and they just did it on paper, while in reality there is still no need for it.

They are not lying anything in page you posted and you are not reading it correctly... in Tier 1 you don't need to send them any documents. Period.

It might be small if we trust Binance numbers, but remember that CZ was the architect behind that incredible volume at OKCoin when everyone knew the numbers are fake, so how much of what Binance claims is true?

Probably nothing is true, and CZ is well known as master manipulator, something like Chinese version of Elon Musk.
You don't get rich and wealthy like him, owning multiple business operating worldwide by being honest, especially not in public tweets

Withdrawals not being processed and being staggered due to excessive congestion. Bear in mind this is exactly how the collapse of platforms like Celsius and Voyager started, all while their CEOs endlessly tweeted "FuNdS aRe SaFu".

Withdrawal worked for me just fine yesterday, but I didn't have big amount of coins there, and now I have nothing there, so I am ok in case they collapse.
Everything looks scripted to me, as if Scam Bankman got tired of his crypto ponzi schemes 

[bbc.reporter]

CZ's intention is certainly to destroy Sam's kingdom.

While FTX is still rather small, they had aggressive advertising and many have foreseen FTX as the one that will soon replace Binance as pretty much the top CEX around.
Of course that now, with FTT in trouble, CZ has found the best moment to liquidate his stash and cause even more problems to the competitor.
Will this destroy FTX? I don't know. But it will most probably show that its place is not on top.

FTX is not rather small. Their latest fundraise was $400 million collected from venture capitalists and has given the whole company with the exchange included a valuation of $32 billion. We should not underestimate the effect of their insolvency on the cryptospace market because their hedge fund and market maker Alameda Research has a large amount of borrowed liquidity in the market. Their insolvency might dump everything to the low of June.



FTX Trading Ltd. ("FTX" or "the Company"), owner and operator of FTX.COM, today announced the closing of a $400 million Series C fundraise, increasing the valuation of the Company to $32 billion. The round saw participation from Temasek, Paradigm, Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan Board, NEA, IVP, SoftBank Vision Fund 2, Lightspeed Venture Partners, Steadview Capital, Tiger Global, and Insight Partners, among others.

The Company also disclosed that all investors involved in the Series C raise simultaneously participated in the previously announced FTX US Series A funding round, which valued FTX US at $8 billion.

Source https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ftx-trading-ltd-closes-400m-series-c-round-301471084.html

[Pmalek]

They are not lying anything in page you posted and you are not reading it correctly... in Tier 1 you don't need to send them any documents. Period.

You are the one not reading my posts correctly. I never said you need to submit documents with level 1 KYC, did I? Here it is one more time in bold and bigger font:

To get a $2.000 per day withdrawal limit equivalent in crypto, you need to pass level 1 KYC. But they don't require the submission of scanned copies of identity documents.

You can argue that not submitting copies of personal documents and proof of address isn't proper KYC, and that's correct. Such documents are required for level 2 KYC. You can fill out fake info for level 1 KYC, and it will probably be accepted. But sooner or later, the need to submit copies of your real ID can become a thing for level 1 KYC as well. And when/if that happens, good luck explaining to the support why your initial data doesn't match with the info on your documents. All services hide behind their ToS agreements. Lying about who you are will certainly not go in your favor. 

[stompix]

Something's certainly going down at FTX: https://nitter.it/BITCOINALLCAPS/status/1589403113412497408
Withdrawals not being processed and being staggered due to excessive congestion.

One thing, if this kind of panic spread and everyone, like this guy:
https://twitter.com/dCliffb/status/1589416634934231040
goes back to his untouched 2 years old account to withdraw 5$ no company in the world will be able to process all those transactions and withdrawals in time.

Unfortunately seems that the consequences are the obvious ones, as panicked users that FTX might go down are dumping their coins to cash out in fiat, and then everyone will look at each other and say that wow, crypto is volatile when their headless chicken runs caused all this.

That being said, this fresh row of tweets isn't helping:
https://twitter.com/claire_FTX/status/1589384861777031169
https://twitter.com/FTX_Official/status/1589680515426443264
https://twitter.com/FTX_Official/status/1589689317034979329

If someone can explain the reason why they are posting these right now, I'm here to hear it!

FTX is not rather small. Their latest fundraise was $400 million collected from venture capitalists and has given the whole company with the exchange included a valuation of $32 billion.

When 400 million make your company worth 32 billion.
Nie, let me just go to Aldi buy a 40 euros carpet and raise my home value by 3200 euros.

[NeuroticFish]

FTX is not rather small. Their latest fundraise was $400 million collected from venture capitalists and has given the whole company with the exchange included a valuation of $32 billion. We should not underestimate the effect of their insolvency on the cryptospace market because their hedge fund and market maker Alameda Research has a large amount of borrowed liquidity in the market. Their insolvency might dump everything to the low of June.

It depends on what you compare. If you compare with .. I don't know, Gemini, FTX is BIG. If you compare with Binance, it's "rather small". This is how I see it. Of course, the reported volumes are fake, so it also depends on who is lying better.
Of course, FTX' fall can create quite some waves in crypto space, but I don't think that they'll fall. They may have some loses and difficulties, their shitcoin may become a bad dream, but, maybe with some help too, FTX will probably survive this.

I've read last evening something interesting: CZ has helped big time FTX in the past when it was a startup, that's where his FTT comes from. So the current move is a mix of getting rid of overly manipulated shitcoins and showing SBF where his place is in the order of things. FTX bankruptcy is not in the plans.

[Rikafip]

That being said, this fresh row of tweets isn't helping:
https://twitter.com/claire_FTX/status/1589384861777031169
https://twitter.com/FTX_Official/status/1589680515426443264
https://twitter.com/FTX_Official/status/1589689317034979329

If someone can explain the reason why they are posting these right now, I'm here to hear it!

I guess they want to show everyone that they are continuing with business as usual and that they have no issues whatsoever but looking at the comments under those tweets, I don't think that technique is working as people keep trolling them.

It depends on what you compare. If you compare with .. I don't know, Gemini, FTX is BIG. If you compare with Binance, it's "rather small". This is how I see it. Of course, the reported volumes are fake, so it also depends on who is lying better.

Since their volume is bigger than ~99% of the other exchanges, I would say that they are quite big and an important player on CEX market. After all, if they are so small there wouldn't be so much talk about them all over the place.

I've read last evening something interesting: CZ has helped big time FTX in the past when it was a startup, that's where his FTT comes from. So the current move is a mix of getting rid of overly manipulated shitcoins and showing SBF where his place is in the order of things. FTX bankruptcy is not in the plans.

Yeah, it is known fact that CZ invested in FTX in their early phase, but one thing is incorrect in that tweet: afaik, its not that Binance wanted to get out of FTX but instead Sam Bankman-Fried wanted Binance out of FTX.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Reports on Reddit that fiat withdrawals are also now being temporarily held on FTX.

So the current move is a mix of getting rid of overly manipulated shitcoins and showing SBF where his place is in the order of things. FTX bankruptcy is not in the plans.

More than a little concerning for everyone who uses centralized exchanges that another exchange can put your one on the verge of insolvency if they want to, though. Binance said they were going to sell over a 2 month period, so this dump isn't even from them selling yet. This all stems from a few tweets causing a bank run on FTX, because they are running a fractional reserve system, just like every other centralized exchange.

Imagine keeping your coins on an exchange and knowing that you could lose them all if some greedy billionaire tweets the wrong thing.

[NeuroticFish]

afaik, its not that Binance wanted to get out of FTX but instead Sam Bankman-Fried wanted Binance out of FTX.

That would make little sense (unless I'm missing something). This move from CZ sets quite a lot of pressure on both FTT and FTX. I see no reason SBF would want that now.

Imagine keeping your coins on an exchange and knowing that you could lose them all if some greedy billionaire tweets the wrong thing.

LOL, well said. There's never a dull month in the world of centralized crypto services

[Rikafip]

That would make little sense (unless I'm missing something). This move from CZ sets quite a lot of pressure on both FTT and FTX. I see no reason SBF would want that now.

Dunno, it kinda makes sense to buy out Binance if you plan to become one of their competitors, and I think that FTX certainly aims that. And its not that it happened recently, but almost year and a half ago. As for the reasons, this is what Sam Bankman-Fried said. Unless he is lying of course and it was the other way around.

We recently repurchased shares from Binance to buy them out of our cap table,” Bankman-Fried said. “I think it just makes sense given the role that our businesses are playing in the space. It can also give us more flexibility going forward.

Bankman-Fried says he and CZ “had a cordial conversation” about parting ways, and that both “had been expecting it would go in that direction for a little while, and now seems like a decent time to just go ahead and get it done. And obviously they did quite well on the investment as well, so I certainly think it's been a win for them

[o_e_l_e_o]

Does anyone want to explain to me exactly what these tweets mean:
https://nitter.it/FTX_Official/status/1589510761625554944#m
https://nitter.it/FTX_Official/status/1589790870290993152#m

Are they genuinely blaming their suspended BTC withdrawals on nodes not being able to keep up? With some mention of their node being "throughput limited"? So despite the network working is it always has, fees not being particularly high (and indeed the mempool being pretty much empty when they made that first tweet), this is all somehow nodes' fault and nothing to do with them? Am I missing something here or are they just throwing out nonsense jargon and hoping their users don't understand there is no such thing as making your node "process from both ends"?

Definitely nothing to do with the fact that they still have outstanding withdrawal requests to process, but their bitcoin wallets are already empty? https://cryptoslate.com/bitcoin-balance-on-ftx-exchange-goes-negative-coinglass/

[DaveF]

Does anyone want to explain to me exactly what these tweets mean:
https://nitter.it/FTX_Official/status/1589510761625554944#m
https://nitter.it/FTX_Official/status/1589790870290993152#m

Are they genuinely blaming their suspended BTC withdrawals on nodes not being able to keep up? With some mention of their node being "throughput limited"? So despite the network working is it always has, fees not being particularly high (and indeed the mempool being pretty much empty when they made that first tweet), this is all somehow nodes' fault and nothing to do with them? Am I missing something here or are they just throwing out nonsense jargon and hoping their users don't understand there is no such thing as making your node "process from both ends"?

Definitely nothing to do with the fact that they still have outstanding withdrawal requests to process, but their bitcoin wallets are already empty? https://cryptoslate.com/bitcoin-balance-on-ftx-exchange-goes-negative-coinglass/

*Not* defending them, but yes I can see they have some configuration settings in their node to prevent overrun.
The back end of their service talks to the node and they have a hard limit of how many pending TX it can have before the back end pauses, waits for a block and sends the next batch.

Once again, I could see someone pushing this in terms of security. YES, you can move everything in 1TX if you get access, but if you set a limit of 2 BTCthat you can send per TX now you have to create 50 of them to move 100BTC and add if the device that talks to the node only allows a certain number. It could in have prevented what has happened to services that have been compromised.

NOT saying that this is what is happening here, but looking at it from the oddball security point of view it's not that bad an idea. Not great mind you, just not bad.
And if the worst they ever had before was a few hours backlog sitting in the server nobody would have even noticed.

Never underestimate programmers doing odd things to see if they can get it done with less work.....

-Dave

[o_e_l_e_o]

The back end of their service talks to the node and they have a hard limit of how many pending TX it can have before the back end pauses, waits for a block and sends the next batch.

Which is a problem with their back end, not with network nodes, and claiming that "nodes are catching up" is disingenuous at best.

And given the problems they are facing, and the rumors circulating that they are on the border of insolvency, if this was the case then why wouldn't they just temporarily tweak their back end to send all withdrawal transactions straight to the network? Doesn't matter if they sit in the mempool for a few hours before confirming - at least the end users can see that FTX actually have the necessary bitcoin holdings to honor their withdrawal requests.

Letting their back end sit with a huge back log of withdrawals transactions it isn't broadcasting is just adding fuel to the fire and isn't doing them any favors. Unless, of course, they don't actually have the funds to process all these withdrawals.

[DaveF]

The back end of their service talks to the node and they have a hard limit of how many pending TX it can have before the back end pauses, waits for a block and sends the next batch.

Which is a problem with their back end, not with network nodes, and claiming that "nodes are catching up" is disingenuous at best.

And given the problems they are facing, and the rumors circulating that they are on the border of insolvency, if this was the case then why wouldn't they just temporarily tweak their back end to send all withdrawal transactions straight to the network? Doesn't matter if they sit in the mempool for a few hours before confirming - at least the end users can see that FTX actually have the necessary bitcoin holdings to honor their withdrawal requests.

Letting their back end sit with a huge back log of withdrawals transactions it isn't broadcasting is just adding fuel to the fire and isn't doing them any favors. Unless, of course, they don't actually have the funds to process all these withdrawals.

Because....wait for it....they don't give a shit.
And they may be insolvent.
And if not and on the off chance what I posted is accurate or close to accurate, they don't want to tell people how they do things.
And....wait for it....they don't give a shit.  
And, if they have other controls in place like I said before only X coins in the hot wallet then they need to refill before sending and they will get to it when they get to it.
And they may be hoping that if people are forced to wait they cancel their withdraw and keep the coins on the exchange.
And....wait for it....they don't give a shit.

Could be 1000s of reasons some good, some bad. Could also be deliberate, i.e. they are close to but not insolvent. They CAN ride this out, but with the rumors swirling once they are on the other side they can come out and say, yes we had controls to make sure nothing bad happened, and look we are still here and functioning with no issues. All is good. And we have a lot of funds left for us to keep running. [So long as $85 is a lot of funds]

However, now and forever.....not your keys....not your coins.

-Dave

So I was both right and wrong. A bit of insolvency and a bit of they don't give a shit. At a guess this was going on for a while, CZ wanted control they would not give it so he forced the issue.

[Rikafip]

Dafuq, looks like Binance will buy FTX. I honestly didn't expect this drama to end this way, and probably no one else either. One exchange to rule them all...



https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1590013613586411520

[NeuroticFish]

Dafuq, looks like Binance will buy FTX.

Aaand it's confirmed by SBF: https://mobile.twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1590012124864348160

Interesting development and a big move by CZ?
I am overly surprised.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Well, here's hoping every member of this forum who used FTX took our advice and dumped their tokens and pulled their bitcoin out. The token has now crashed spectacularly and all withdrawals are suspended, to absolutely no one's surprise. What about all the "FuNdS aRe SaFu" nonsense that was being tweeted yesterday?

Now we get this tweet from FTX: https://nitter.it/SBF_FTX/status/1590012126701441025#m
They asked Binance to come in to cover their liquidity problem. Claiming "all assets will be covered" is very different to stating "all assets are covered". They are insolvent.

Pretty disgusting and borderline illegal behavior from Binance. (Although these are the people who sold customer information to the Russian government, so no strangers to disgusting unethical behavior.) Tweet shit about a rival to cause a bank run, force them in to a liquidity problem, and then swoop in and buy them out. The entire centralized exchange market is becoming centralized on Binance and CZ. Binance is rapidly turning in to the very reason bitcoin was created in the first place.

The entire centralized exchange ecosystem is turning in to something which is very bad for bitcoin.

[JeromeTash]

Interesting development and a big move by CZ?
I am overly surprised.

It's about time 


With the acquisitions they made in the past, I don't think I would be surprised at all. This is really very bad for the crypto industry as whole. CZ knew it that FTX was going to suffer due to panic from traders.


"Decentralized Global economy" my ass. And he had the audacity to say that. More like try to kneel down and suck Cz's dick, especially after saying that a competitor was going after them with false rumors just some hours ago

[bbc.reporter]

Dafuq, looks like Binance will buy FTX. I honestly didn't expect this drama to end this way, and probably no one else either. One exchange to rule them all...



https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1590013613586411520

This might be CZ's real agenda hehehe. He killed his greatest rival and closed the rivalry by owning them. He cannot take the risk of letting the rival survive and have revenge against him.

However, is Binance considered a Chinese company? America might block any venture from a Chinese company to buy an American company with this political tension happening between China and Russia vs. America.

[Darker45]

Although I was also bullish on FTX earlier, never did it occur to me that they would become a sort of a Binance killer. Binance's roots are way too deep in the crypto ecosystem. FTX was only a close competitor as far as Binance as exchange is concerned, but in terms of both of their empires, Bankman-Fried's was miniscule compared to CZ's. And we all know how CZ tends to monopolize everything. This is the obvious result. There were dirty tricks employed, of course.

[Little Mouse]

Interesting development and a big move by CZ?
I am overly surprised.

If it was someone else, I would definitely surprise but since it's CZ, there's nothing to surprise. It was expected that CZ wants to rule crypto world, he wants monopoly on the industry which he is getting eventually. There was a time when CZ said he wanted to charge back a BTC transaction which was hacked from Binance, it was something not possible, he knew that. But he wants to he something like that. So, yeah, it's nothing of surprising and it's a part of his monopoly.
If someone can't break this monopoly, there will be hard time ahead for cryptocurrency.

[bbc.reporter]

@Ratimov. I very much cannot comprehend how Alameda Research could lose in the casino if they control the casino. They have been making billions during the bull market but end agreeing to CZ for a possibility of a bail out. They had all of the advantages.

In any case, I have another speculation. Is CZ supported secretly by the communist party of China? He has become very powerful in the cryptospace only through hard work? I am very skeptical of this.

[malcovi2]

if anyone is interested here is coffeezilla's review on the story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3HfrRjWilQ

I'm a huge fan of his work because on how detailed on how he delivers the story.

[Darker45]

I very much cannot comprehend how Alameda Research could lose in the casino if they control the casino. They have been making billions during the bull market but end agreeing to CZ for a possibility of a bail out. They had all of the advantages.

This has always been my curious question every time a crypto exchange that earns suddenly lose solvency, except if it is hacked. And it's probably always about financial mismanagement. This is definitely what happened to SBF as well.

For one, it certainly didn't help that he acted as the industry's savior and redeemer during the crypto winter. It drained him of so much money.

This ambitious guy probably spent more than he should. He's obviously extravagant in his marketing decisions including renaming the Miami Heat's basketball arena as well as in his political commitments and probably many more others. A billion here, a billion there in the middle of a severe bear market is apparently over-commitment. He must have somehow lost his mind and wrongly estimated his capacity.

And he's caught off guard by this untimely conflict against CZ, who's always been a very measured businessman in and out. In the end, CZ's actions proved to be the final nail in the coffin.

In any case, I have another speculation. Is CZ supported secretly by the communist party of China? He has become very powerful in the cryptospace only through hard work? I am very skeptical of this.

I guess CZ has already lengthily answered this. Although Binance is originally made in China, he has dismissed that it is involved with the red party.

But I guess it wasn't just hard work; it was also smart work. And perhaps the timing was also a considerable factor.

[NeuroticFish]

Interesting development and a big move by CZ?
I am overly surprised.

If it was someone else, I would definitely surprise but since it's CZ, there's nothing to surprise. It was expected that CZ wants to rule crypto world, he wants monopoly on the industry which he is getting eventually. There was a time when CZ said he wanted to charge back a BTC transaction which was hacked from Binance, it was something not possible, he knew that. But he wants to he something like that. So, yeah, it's nothing of surprising and it's a part of his monopoly.
If someone can't break this monopoly, there will be hard time ahead for cryptocurrency.

While CZ breaking FTX is not a big surprise, buying it would be one. I tend to agree with some of the guys on Twitter expecting the drama be far from over and since it's not a binding agreement, CZ will actually not buy FTX.
I mean.. why would he need two exchanges when he already has a very big one? What would be the final benefit? With FTX out of business, the users would migrate to Binance anyway...

In general, Binance had big problems with regulators before. [~snip~]

Against the backdrop of these persistent problems, Binance could begin to transfer liquidity to another exchange that has a cleaner history and does not have such problems with regulators.

I will start by telling that I've been thinking on you with all this situation. I know you had high hopes related to FTX, I hope you haven't lost too much money with FTT; maybe you've even sold before all this started...
Now, your speculation looks interesting, but Binance is lately pretty active in getting regulatory approval over the world. So they're already clearing their name. I see FTX just a headache in all this story, one that has the potential of creating more problems than solving them on medium-long term. Of course, I could be wrong...

[o_e_l_e_o]

It was expected that CZ wants to rule crypto world, he wants monopoly on the industry which he is getting eventually. There was a time when CZ said he wanted to charge back a BTC transaction which was hacked from Binance

It should concern everyone that one person has the power to completely destroy a rival exchange with a few tweets. It should concern everyone more that this same person has previously wanted to 51% attack bitcoin in order to rewrite the history of the blockchain to suit his own personal desires. Binance and CZ, in addition to having fingers in every other pie, from lending to staking to rating sites to wallets (hardware and software) and even to web browsers, now has the ability to take down any exchange which challenges them. CZ is trying to centralize the entire bitcoin ecosystem on him. CZ has, however, essentially just put a large target on himself and Binance for regulators around the world. How ironic if they aid decentralization by stopping Binance's hostile takeovers.

People need to stop using centralized exchanges more than ever. Not only is it obviously better for your security and your privacy to use DEXs, but now it's good for the entire bitcoin ecosystem and helps to stop CZ consolidating even more power.

[stompix]

If it was someone else, I would definitely surprise but since it's CZ, there's nothing to surprise. It was expected that CZ wants to rule crypto world, he wants monopoly on the industry which he is getting eventually. There was a time when CZ said he wanted to charge back a BTC transaction which was hacked from Binance, it was something not possible, he knew that. But he wants to he something like that. So, yeah, it's nothing of surprising and it's a part of his monopoly.
If someone can't break this monopoly, there will be hard time ahead for cryptocurrency.

Nobody cares!

Microsoft destroying Netscape, the evil corporation, Bill Gates the Illuminati, it has set back development for years, damn corporation monopoly!
Binance is bankrupting FTX, CZ is a genius, Binance is a good exchange, a near monopoly is good for the economy, and this is good for bitcoin!

The world is upside down, as I see people cheering for this kind of manipulation and not who they are cheering for, the guy that continuously lied about volume, about legislation, that slapped x10 fees on BTC withdrawals to promote his own tokens and stablecoin, hope is starting to fade away!

It should concern everyone

It should! It's ....not! 

[Rikafip]

The plot thickens: according to Coindesk, Binance is considering to back down from FTX takeover. Seems like situation is far worse than initially thought if they are really thinking about not going through with it. I hope it isn't true, for the sake of all people who still have money there.

Cryptocurrency exchange giant Binance is highly unlikely to go through with its proposed acquisition of struggling rival FTX after less than a day of reviewing the company, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Binance’s non-binding letter of intent for the takeover – announced Tuesday as FTX’s financial position appeared to be spiraling out of control – hinged on Binance performing due diligence. Roughly half a day into that process of reviewing FTX’s internal data and loan commitments has led Binance to strongly lean against completing the transaction, the person said.

[dkbit98]

It should concern everyone that one person has the power to completely destroy a rival exchange with a few tweets. It should concern everyone more that this same person has previously wanted to 51% attack bitcoin in order to rewrite the history of the blockchain to suit his own personal desires.

This is certainly true, everyone should think more about it, and let's not forget that he created his own centralized blockchain so he can do whatever he wants there, even creating fake bitcoin for supposed ''lower fees''.
CZ is taking down any competition and he wants to have full control over Bitcoin trading, but I think there are forces behind the scenes who support him in his actions.
It's best to stop using all centralized exchanges, and developers should focus more on improving available dex exchanges or on making new better ones.

The plot thickens: according to Coindesk, Binance is considering to back down from FTX takeover. Seems like situation is far worse than initially thought if they are really thinking about not going through with it. I hope it isn't true, for the sake of all people who still have money there.

Isn't it weird that at the same time we are having twitter takeover by Musk?
It looks to me that world is going towards more centralization of power and money, biggest price of this will probably pay regular people and middle class.
Crazy thing to think that for some people CZ and Musk are now some kind of heroes.

[aoluain]

It should concern everyone that one person has the power to completely destroy a rival exchange with a few tweets. It should concern everyone more that this same person has previously wanted to 51% attack bitcoin in order to rewrite the history of the blockchain to suit his own personal desires.

This is certainly true, everyone should think more about it, and let's not forget that he created his own centralized blockchain so he can do whatever he wants there, even creating fake bitcoin for supposed ''lower fees''.
CZ is taking down any competition and he wants to have full control over Bitcoin trading, but I think there are forces behind the scenes who support him in his actions.
It's best to stop using all centralized exchanges, and developers should focus more on improving available dex exchanges or on making new better ones.

The plot thickens: according to Coindesk, Binance is considering to back down from FTX takeover. Seems like situation is far worse than initially thought if they are really thinking about not going through with it. I hope it isn't true, for the sake of all people who still have money there.

Isn't it weird that at the same time we are having twitter takeover by Musk?
It looks to me that world is going towards more centralization of power and money, biggest price of this will probably pay regular people and middle class.
Crazy thing to think that for some people CZ and Musk are now some kind of heroes.

They are not heroes of mine, that's for sure.
I agree that things are becoming more "centralised" and as always regular people will pick up the costs.

This is another lesson for sure on the dangers of using centralised exchanges and we all
should pursue the use of DEX's.

This thread is a real eye opener into the dealings and moves of both Binance and CZ.

[Rikafip]

Isn't it weird that at the same time we are having twitter takeover by Musk?

I am not so sure that those two things are connected as there's simply so much shit going on lately that some will overlap. Then again, nothing can surprise me anymore.  

It looks to me that world is going towards more centralization of power and money, biggest price of this will probably pay regular people and middle class.

That's unfortunately inevitable and I don't see what can happen to reverse centralization process. Maybe nuclear holocaust, but then nothing will matter anyway.

This is another lesson for sure on the dangers of using centralised exchanges and we all
should pursue the use of DEX's.

I honestly doubt that people will change the way they perceive centralized exchanges and they will still use them to store/buy their crypto. I mean, if Mt.Gox fiasco didn't teach people a lesson I don't think that FTX going down will neither and probably not even Binance.


It is confirmed now, Binance is out of FTX deal.


https://twitter.com/binance/status/1590449161069268992

[malcovi2]

It is confirmed now, Binance is out of FTX deal.


https://twitter.com/binance/status/1590449161069268992

I thought so because not only you are buying FTX but also Voyager, the buyer going to shoulder 2 bankrupt companies.

[bbc.reporter]

@Ratimov. I very much cannot comprehend how Alameda Research could lose in the casino if they control the casino. They have been making billions during the bull market but end agreeing to CZ for a possibility of a bail out. They had all of the advantages.

In any case, I have another speculation. Is CZ supported secretly by the communist party of China? He has become very powerful in the cryptospace only through hard work? I am very skeptical of this.

This can be discussed a lot, I have seen various hypotheses regarding the secret interaction of these two exchanges. In general, there is such a widespread belief that FTX has always been part of Binance. Suffice it to recall their close cooperation in terms of trading BULL / BEAR tokens. Then the hype began with these tokens and Binance made a rough delisting of these credit tokens from its platform.

In general, Binance had big problems with regulators before. If you remember, in 2021 there was a lot of news with restrictions for Binance. I once created a separate topic on these restrictions: July Regulatory War Against Binance...is CZ Ready to Surrender?.

Against the backdrop of these persistent problems, Binance could begin to transfer liquidity to another exchange that has a cleaner history and does not have such problems with regulators. At some point, plans to distribute the influence of the two exchanges could change and Binance again made the main bet as the main exchange of the entire crypto industry, and FTX was decided to absorb. Of course, this is just a hypothesis, and we won’t know the whole truth, but FTX really seemed to be the main contender for the most powerful exchange until recently.

I am talking about Sam who owns Alameda Research, his own quantfund-hedgefund-marketmaker, who also controls FTX as something similar to their own casino and Sam who also issued his own token through FTX, however, he lost everything? This is real life comedy.

It is confirmed now, Binance is out of FTX deal.


https://twitter.com/binance/status/1590449161069268992

I was skeptical of this. I reckon CZ only wanted to look at FTX's balance sheet and operation to collect data on what his enemy was doing hehehe.

I very much cannot comprehend how Alameda Research could lose in the casino if they control the casino. They have been making billions during the bull market but end agreeing to CZ for a possibility of a bail out. They had all of the advantages.

This has always been my curious question every time a crypto exchange that earns suddenly lose solvency, except if it is hacked. And it's probably always about financial mismanagement. This is definitely what happened to SBF as well.

For one, it certainly didn't help that he acted as the industry's savior and redeemer during the crypto winter. It drained him of so much money.

This ambitious guy probably spent more than he should. He's obviously extravagant in his marketing decisions including renaming the Miami Heat's basketball arena as well as in his political commitments and probably many more others. A billion here, a billion there in the middle of a severe bear market is apparently over-commitment. He must have somehow lost his mind and wrongly estimated his capacity.

And he's caught off guard by this untimely conflict against CZ, who's always been a very measured businessman in and out. In the end, CZ's actions proved to be the final nail in the coffin.

In any case, I have another speculation. Is CZ supported secretly by the communist party of China? He has become very powerful in the cryptospace only through hard work? I am very skeptical of this.

I guess CZ has already lengthily answered this. Although Binance is originally made in China, he has dismissed that it is involved with the red party.

But I guess it wasn't just hard work; it was also smart work. And perhaps the timing was also a considerable factor.

I do not trust CZ's words.

[malcovi2]

Oh no, Justin Sun entered the arena, I think its a bad news.



Everything Justin Suns touches is going to be fucked
wink, trondex, and Sun token - he abandoned these projects, I can't believe that there are people believing trusting this guy.

USDD - probably next year its going to be another crypto news because people are investing in this ponzi game

[NotATether]

Oh no, Justin Sun entered the arena, I think its a bad news.



Everything Justin Suns touches is going to be fucked
wink, trondex, and Sun token - he abandoned these projects, I can't believe that there are people believing trusting this guy.

USDD - probably next year its going to be another crypto news because people are investing in this ponzi game

Don't worry about it since he doesn't have any big liquidity to crash the market with. So we can afford having him start 100 projects and then abandoning them all after a short time  .

[Rikafip]

Looks like all those rumours from yesterday about some funds moving out of FTX were actually people from Bahamas being able to withdraw their money. I saw some reports of people trying to fake Bahamian IDs in order to go through KYC and get their money out of there.


https://twitter.com/FTX_Official/status/1590783569471115264

[stompix]

I saw some reports of people trying to fake Bahamian IDs in order to go through KYC and get their money out of there.

I seriously don't know why I'm smiling cause this is a serious thing and a lot of people will lose a ton of money, maybe their life savings or even worse but this whole situation right now is ridiculous.
Yesterday I was watching an interview with Sam and I was sure it was gold but I can't compete with the situation above

FTX still has $1 billion to deploy, says CEO Sam Bankman-Fried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZrZq6z-Ig

Around minute 3, where he brags about how much money he has and how is set on the side, he actually wanted to let people know that he could easily have the backing for another 1 billion on top of the one claimed.

This Mofo was in a congress hearing, and he was reciting his story knowingly that behind the scene he was doing exactly the opposite.

[Rikafip]

FTX still has $1 billion to deploy, says CEO Sam Bankman-Fried
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZrZq6z-Ig

Around minute 3, where he brags about how much money he has and how is set on the side, he actually wanted to let people know that he could easily have the backing for another 1 billion on top of the one claimed.

That video didn't age well, and it was made only a month ago. I like how he was described there : JPMorgan/MJ or crypto, saving other companies, billionaire that drives Toyota Corolla and lives in with 10 roomates. This fucker deserves to go to jail, which I doubt will happen. After all, he didn't donate all those millions to Democrats for no reason.

Another amusing video, Alameda CEO : "we tend not to have stop losses". And those were the people in charge of billions of dollars.  
https://twitter.com/SimonDixonTwitt/status/1591009619790663681


In other news, SBF resigned from CEO position and FTX filed for bankruptcy.

https://watcher.guru/news/ftx-files-for-bankruptcy-as-ceo-sam-bankman-fried-resigns

[bitmover]

In other news, SBF resigned from CEO position and FTX filed for bankruptcy.

https://watcher.guru/news/ftx-files-for-bankruptcy-as-ceo-sam-bankman-fried-resigns

Just like Celsius,  it is very likely they will now release a document with all the client's name of those who make kyc and lost any money in this fiasco, as chapter 11 obligations

Exposing their privacy and savings and reputation.

[Darker45]

Just like Celsius,  it is very likely they will now release a document with all the client's name of those who make kyc and lost any money in this fiasco, as chapter 11 obligations

Exposing their privacy and savings and reputation.

At least for now, here are some of the projects that have funds stuck in either FTX investment or Alameda investment.



There will be many more of them considering that the FTX Group included in their bankruptcy filing some 134 companies and affiliated companies. These are just two of them.

I noticed some popular names in here. I've seen Nas Academy, Paxos, Circle, BlockFI, Mina Protocol, Sky Mavis, 1inch, BitOasis, and many more.

The fall of FTX Group could also mean the fall of some of these projects. And since some of these projects are lending companies, trust companies, or platforms that accept investments or simply money from their respective customers, the domino effect of FTX Group crumbling down is definitely massive.

I got this from a post by dwminer1. I don't know where he/she grabbed this from but it's indicated it's made by @WuBlockchain.

[Rikafip]

At least for now, here are some of the projects that have funds stuck in either FTX investment or Alameda investment.

I don't think that's list of companies that have their money stuck in FTX but rather companies that FTX/Alameda investment invested in as I've seen it being shared around. Some of them probably have money stuck there though.

The fall of FTX Group could also mean the fall of some of these projects. And since some of these projects are lending companies, trust companies, or platforms that accept investments or simply money from their respective customers, the domino effect of FTX Group crumbling down is definitely massive.

Not just projects, but more exchanges could go down with them as Alameda did shit load of market making for many. I've seen names like Huobi, Kucoin and Crypto.com being mentioned around as the next ones in trouble. Might be just FUD, but people shouldn't have any money on exchanges anyway.


Drama at FTX continues as someone transferred more than $400M and users are reporting that they see their balance at 0. Looks like an inside job tbh, given what's been happening lately.

Crypto exchange FTX is seeing millions of dollars flow out of its exchange with early reports of some user account balances being completely empty.

So far, over $400 million has been transferred to a single wallet address. The wallet has acquired tens of millions of dollars worth of several types of tokens by draining FTX accounts, and began selling tokens that it received from FTX.

FTX's general counsel Ryne Miller claimed the exchange is "investigating abnormalities with wallet movements related to consolidation of FTX balances across exchanges – unclear facts as other movements not clear. Will share more info as soon as we have it. @FTX_Official."

[o_e_l_e_o]

At least for now, here are some of the projects that have funds stuck in either FTX investment or Alameda investment.

Look at all the so called DEXs, DeFi projects, decentralized protocols and networks and wallets and markets and other DeFi scams which are listed there. Why are so many "decentralized" projects investing funds with centralized exchanges or depending on centralized exchanges for their revenue/funding? This kind of thing just confirms what I've said for a long time - DeFi is in no way decentralized and the whole thing is just one massive scam waiting to collapse, just like ICOs were in 2017 and just like some other shit will be in 2025.

I've seen names like Huobi, Kucoin and Crypto.com being mentioned around as the next ones in trouble. Might be just FUD, but people shouldn't have any money on exchanges anyway.

It doesn't matter if you are using some tiny local exchange owned by some guy who lives down the road from you, or you are using one of the largest global players like Binance or Huobi. If you still have coins on a centralized exchange after the shitshow of the last few months, then I have no idea what to even tell you.

[stompix]

And the list of companies that will get screwed by this won't stop to the crypto ecosystem




And of course:

The Heat were to receive $2 million a year as part of the deal. Most of the rest — roughly $90 million over the lifetime of the agreement — was to be paid to the county, the vast majority of it earmarked toward fighting gun violence and poverty.
FTX entered into a number of sports-related deals, including with Mercedes for Formula One racing and a sponsorship deal with Major League Baseball — whose umpires wear the company’s logo. Earlier Friday, Mercedes said it would immediately remove FTX logos from its Formula One cars.

Not even mentioning the millions that kept a few NGOs and politicians afloat and sponsored their campaigns, tens for sure if not hundreds of millions when this whole fiasco will start to be deciphered.

The fall of FTX Group could also mean the fall of some of these projects. And since some of these projects are lending companies, trust companies, or platforms that accept investments or simply money from their respective customers, the domino effect of FTX Group crumbling down is definitely massive.

It's about time the average cex user learns one small thing, all these companies are making money out of crypto user's pockets, they are making money out of fees, out of the price of their crypto investments going up if they manage to sell to somebody, and that's it. There is no other magical money-generating business, but a lot of other expenses, like the sponsorship mentioned above, like the wages of the staff, rent, server cost, and so on and on.

And when the money flow from the average investor is cut as they don't feel like buying or trading, the whole charade falls like a house of cards since there is no money to pay the expenses and generate the virtual income with which you've entrapped a lot of your older customer. The bull run to 60k created too much money, too many hyenas waning a piece, and too many companies battling for the same source of revenue, now that this has dried up, we have this.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's about time the average cex user learns one small thing, all these companies are making money out of crypto user's pockets, they are making money out of fees, out of the price of their crypto investments going up if they manage to sell to somebody, and that's it.

You missed an important revenue stream. These companies are making money from lending out users' deposits without their knowledge or consent to a variety of shady, untrustworthy, and unreliable third parties, without proper (or indeed any!) guarantees or collateral. When one of these third parties exit scams, your coins are gone. When one of these third parties goes bankrupt, your coins are gone. When one of these third parties stop paying back their loan for any reason, your coins are gone. And of course, whenever a lot of people try to withdraw their coins at once, the exchange gets caught out in a fractional reserve bank run, has to freeze withdrawals, their token price tanks, and they end up insolvent.

If centralized exchanges actually only earned from trading and withdrawal fees, and otherwise just held user deposits in cold storage, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. But they are all far too greedy for that. Anything you deposit on a exchange could end up in the hands of any third party anywhere in the world, and you have no idea its even happening until you discover you've lost everything.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

As I have commented on our local forum, it seems that today's sharp drop is due to problems with the crypto.com token.

Apart from FTX, crypto.com, Gate.io and Huobi are in trouble. The most relevant is that yesterday they had to prove their liquidity and were making transfers of large amounts, which in some cases they attribute to an error.

CZ hinting at Crypto,com and Gate,io not being safe after weird transactions taking place.

➡️ I recommend taking your money out of these platforms. There is no reason whatsoever to keep your coins there, especially amidst all of this.

So we see that, over time, unfortunately, o_e_l_e_o's advice is confirmed as more and more correct.

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

I already predicted this exact thing happening with this proof of reserve bullshit which is starting to come out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5419710.msg61263655#msg61263655

And indeed, this exact thing has already happened in the past with proof of reserve for stablecoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5322147.msg56656992#msg56656992

The summary of that post is that on various occasions when Tether were being audited for their proof of reserves, they pulled a variety of scams to hide the fact that they were (and continue to be) insolvent. On the morning of one audit, they opened a brand new bank account and then immediately received $400 million from Bitfinex in to that bank account so they could pass their audit. On another occasion, the day after passing an audit they transferred almost $500 million out to Bitfinex.

Centralized exchanges will do the exact same thing, and indeed you've pointed out the fact that they are already doing this within the first few days. The difference now being that these movements can be traced using blockchain data. And don't forget of course that proof of reserves is meaningless when we don't know what their liabilities are.

Proof of reserves proves nothing other than exchanges' ability to continue to trick their users. Get your coins off all centralized exchanges ASAP.

[NotATether]

It appears that SBF and a few other FTX execs under watch in the Bahamas are trying to flee to the UAE.

I'm thinking this guy is going to get a ton of jail time once the latest black swan settles down.

[stompix]

~.

You missed an important revenue stream. These companies are making money from lending out users' deposits without their knowledge or consent to a variety of shady, untrustworthy, and unreliable third parties, without proper (or indeed any!) guarantees or collateral.

True, and normally I would have listed this as a perfectly legal way of running a business.
But after the Celsius fiasco, I understood nobody uses these lending features as it was supposed to, you pay interest 5% on the use coins you charge 10% when lending and the whole customer base is just as you say, no real business which needs real-life funds available, but just guys  playing with leverage and arbitrage or whatever, and these guys I bunched them together in the "investor" category as they too have started to pack bags once the market turned full bearish.

As I have commented on our local forum, it seems that today's sharp drop is due to problems with the crypto.com token.

Apart from FTX, crypto.com, Gate.io and Huobi are in trouble. The most relevant is that yesterday they had to prove their liquidity and were making transfers of large amounts, which in some cases they attribute to an error.

Oh lol, crypto.com, the other one spending left and right, another stadium, a formula one car, and the FIFA world cup losing a sponsor.
How much money have they printed out of thin air and how much of their user funds have they spent on all this crap?
Crypto com started pulling out of sponsorships between June and September, they claimed regulations, which is petty stupid, seems like knew once Terra Celsius collapsed that they don't have that money either.

I would empty all my accounts right now, no matter what the exchange is, no matter how SAFU they claimed to be.



 

[Arkyo]

F#ck FTX, my poor dep 
It's gonna be a long story to get my fudns back, MTGOX2

[o_e_l_e_o]

True, and normally I would have listed this as a perfectly legal way of running a business.

It can be, when it is done in a sensible and considered manner, with proper vetting of third parties and their ability to repay loans, proper guarantees and collateral, proper amounts of funds kept in reserve, and so on. But that's not what centralized exchanges and lending platforms have been doing, as we have seen repeatedly over the last few months. Rather, they essentially gamble users' money away with uncollateralized loans and risky investments. But they make billions of dollars in doing so and its the users who lose everything when it all goes to shit.

I would empty all my accounts right now, no matter what the exchange is, no matter how SAFU they claimed to be.

The writing has been on the wall for months. Everyone should have withdrawn all their coins back in June when the first dominoes started to fall. Still having funds on FTX when it went under was very naive. Still having funds on any centralized platform right now is just plain stupid; there's no other word for it.

[stompix]

If you want comedy, but really bad comedy, cringe stuff, just look at SBF tweets:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1591989554881658880



Yeah, he did a tweet with each letter of what h a p p e n e d!
I just wonder, the people that worked with him day and night as he had 20 roomies in his 40 million Bahamas home, or the ones observing all this, they didn't realize the guy is nuts?
When I see now how he is acting he seems like a child in kindergarten that thinks his pet giraffe has died and one bar of chocolate baked in his Barbie even will make it come to life!

Just look at the plan:

15) A few weeks ago, FTX was handling ~$10b/day of volume and billions of transfers.
But there was too much leverage--more than I realized.  A run on the bank and market crash exhausted liquidity.
So what can I try to do?  Raise liquidity, make customers whole, and restart.

So he will raise 8 billion from investor money and pay back the defrauded customers, doesn't he realize what he is actually proposing? He is asking for investors' money to patch a Ponzi scheme?

[NeuroticFish]

If you want comedy, but really bad comedy, cringe stuff, just look at SBF tweets:

I didn't give it a second thought. My cat ends up on my keyboard too now and then.

So he will raise 8 billion from investor money and pay back the defrauded customers, doesn't he realize what he is actually proposing? He is asking for investors' money to patch a Ponzi scheme?

They've done this until now too, isn't it? They did it probably without knowing it, but probably this kind of "tiny details" don't matter for SBF.

[bbc.reporter]

If you want comedy, but really bad comedy, cringe stuff, just look at SBF tweets:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1591989554881658880

This might be if Sam is taken to court he can plead insanity hehehe. There are other rumors that are spreading in social that Sam used stimulants and encouraged his employees  also to use them to be more productive. There would be a lecture about different stimulants and he let his employees choose which one they like.

There are others who also say that Sam is in a romantic relationship with Caroline Ellison the cofounder and CEO of Alameda Research.

[stompix]

~

I didn't give it a second thought. My cat ends up on my keyboard too now and then.

If you see it jumping the fence with a USB drive in its mouth then trust me, your keys are gone!  

There would be a lecture about different stimulants and he let his employees choose which one they like.

Oh god, when you said stimulants I thought we were talking about paychecks, he would give them bonuses and let them invest to asses their abilities, not this stimulus.

There are others who also say that Sam is in a romantic relationship with Caroline Ellison the cofounder and CEO of Alameda Research.

Ok, I'm not going to judge everything about a person, if they are into this, they are, that's their business and their choice but that's for your personal life, when you combine those two and this kind of thing happens:

According to a bombshell report by CoinDesk, Ms Ellison and Mr Bankman-Fried were part of a “cabal of roommates” who ran the crypto empire and “dated” each other, while living in a $US40 million penthouse in the Bahamas’ exclusive Albany resort.
Also living in the house were FTX co-founder and chief technology officer Gary Wang and director of engineering Nishad Singh. “All 10 are, or used to be, paired up in romantic relationships with each other,” CoinDesk reported.

this is beyond anything I've heard lately.
I'm the first one to call bs when one employee starts throwing sexual harassment lawsuits because a male employee looked at her in a way she didn't like, but this is going the other way beyond any limit.
So these guys were doing trading and loaning, founding and funding companies while gangbanging and smoking mushrooms.

[bbc.reporter]

@stompix. It is very much not okay if the CEO of the exchange and the CEO of the quantfund that uses the exchange are dating. It might be $10 billion of FTX's funds that Sam transferred under the control of Caroline in Alameda. Much of this is depositors' money.

In any case, I thought the rumors of drugs and orgies were not true. However, this picture was leaked. But I cannot confirm if this is real.



There was also a rumor of a sex tape with Sam and Caroline.

[o_e_l_e_o]

All the personal rumors aside, every new piece of information which comes out shows that FTX was possibly the most amateurish company which ever existed.

Their accounts show they were only holding $659,000, rather than the $5.5 billion SBF claimed. That's 0.01%. That has to be the smallest fractional reserve ever seen.

John Ray, the person who was appointed oversee the bankruptcy proceedings, filed a statement with the court on Thursday. Let's take a look at some of the best quotes: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23310507-ftx-bankruptcy-filing-john-j-ray-iii

I have over 40 years of legal and restructuring experience. I have been the Chief Restructuring Officer or Chief Executive Officer in several of the largest corporate failures in history.
...
Never in my career have I seen such a complete failure of corporate controls and such a complete absence of trustworthy financial information as occurred here.

The worst run company in history. Incredible.

Cash management procedural failures included the absence of an accurate list of bank accounts and account signatories, as well as insufficient attention to the creditworthiness of bank partners around the world.

Not only did FTX not know how much cash it had, but it didn't even know which bank accounts it had, who opened those accounts, or who those accounts were with.

At this time, the Debtors have been unable to prepare a complete list of whoworked for the FT Group as of the Petition Date, of the terms of their employment

So not only did they have no idea about what money they actually had, they didn't even know who worked for them?

I understand that corporate funds of the FTX Group were used to purchase homes and other personal items for employees and advisors.

Amazing. Your coins were literally being spent by individual employees on any old shit they liked. This is outright theft.

Unacceptable management practices included the use of an unsecured group email account as the root user to access confidential private keys and critical sensitive data

This is wild. For everyone who thinks that leaving coins on an exchange is more secure than in your own wallet, or completing KYC at an exchange is safe because they surely must have good security practices, read this sentence again. Then one more time. All your coins and data were protected by an unsecured group email account.

Absolutely incredible. This is a company which was reportedly the second biggest crypto exchange in the world. I would expect better management from a group of elementary school kids. If this is what is going on behind the scenes at FTX, then there is no telling what manner of things are going on behind that scenes are every other centralized exchange or platform out there.

Just to recap - they didn't keep track of any assets, they didn't even keep track of who worked for them, and anything you deposited was simply being spent by employees on personal items. This isn't a failed exchange - this is an outright scam.

If you keep anything on any centralized exchange after these revelations, then sorry, but you are a moron.

[bbc.reporter]

@o_e_l_e_o. Sam is a scammer, there are other information being discovered that Sam took money from the investors and used them somewhere else. This is misappropriation use of funds and there are laws that can be used to charge Sam and Caroline and send them to prison.

I am beginning to think that FTX was never created to be an exchange. It was created to be a scheme to be used by some very big players in politics.



Also, watch this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Hedgeye/status/1591240664779743232

[NotATether]

And while doing all this they out the strictest KYC controls on people like us and they have the audacity to confiscate user funds to enrich themselves? Hypocrisy!  

All the personal rumors aside, every new piece of information which comes out shows that FTX was possibly the most amateurish company which ever existed.

Their accounts show they were only holding $659,000, rather than the $5.5 billion SBF claimed. That's 0.01%. That has to be the smallest fractional reserve ever seen.

These exchange scammers had better bunk up with Do Kwon, wherever he is hiding, before they all (rightfully) get jailed.

[o_e_l_e_o]

And while doing all this they out the strictest KYC controls on people like us and they have the audacity to confiscate user funds to enrich themselves? Hypocrisy!  

Considering that FTX employees were able to simple help themselves to customers' funds in order by themselves houses and other personal items, you can only assume that their security surrounding KYC documents was similarly lax. As I pointed out above, it seems that "sensitive data" was being held in a "unsecured group email account". Given that, then anyone who completed KYC on FTX should assume that all their personal data and whatever documents they uploaded are at the very least in the hands of some of their scamming employees, if not out in the wild altogether.

If you have completed KYC on any exchange ever then (given the number of database hacks/leaks) you should, at the very least, regularly check your credit report to make sure that no scammer is using your identity to open fraudulent accounts or take out loans. But in the case of a proven scam like this one, I would suggest that you both place a credit freeze on yourself so no one can open new accounts with additional checks and authorizations, and also log the issue with your local law enforcement so you have some recourse if you do suddenly end up on the hook for $100,000 in debt you didn't take out.

[bbc.reporter]

A thread from someone on Twitter that lists all questionable actions by Sam and FTX for those who have not been following this news. These are not rumors anymore but confirmed information found in FTX's bankruptcy filing and they are very head shaking.

There were those people who said that this man cannot be trusted when I posted this picture. I thought they were only being stupid, however, I should have listened to them hehehehehe.





FTX FILLED ITS BANKRUPTCY FILLING TODAY

IT IS EVEN WORSE THAN ANYONE IMAGINED AN OVERVIEW

1) FTX LENT SAM BANKMAN OVER $1 BILLION DOLLARS FOR PERSONAL USE

2) FTX USED CUSTOMER FUNDS TO BUY HOUSES FOR EMPLOYEES

3) FTX DIDNT HAVE A LIST OF EMPLOYESS AND WHAT ALL THEY DID

4) FTX DID NOT KEEP ANY BOOKS OR RECORDS OF ITS DIGITAL ASSETS

5) ALAMEDA RESEARCH WAS EXEMPTED FROM AUTO LIQUIDATION ON FTX

6) FTX BUILT A SOFTWARE TO HIDE THE MISUSE OF CUSTOMER FUNDS

7) FTX HAD $400 MILLION IN UNAUTHORIZED TRANSFERS THE DAY THEY FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY

 FTX HAD BILLIONS IN INVESTMENTS OTHER THAN CRYPTO BUT THERE ARE NO BOOKS OR RECORDS OF ANY OF IT.

9) SAM BANKMAN MADE ALL BUSINESS DECISIONS ON APPS THAT AUTO DELETED EVERYTHING AFTER SOME TIME

HE ENCOURAGED ALL EMPLOYEES TO DO THE SAME

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/gurgavin/status/1593292792582635520

[JeromeTash]

5) ALAMEDA RESEARCH WAS EXEMPTED FROM AUTO LIQUIDATION ON FTX

This particular one got me shaking my head. With all the data they had about the different position traders make when trading features, they even went far by exempting their positions from the auto-liquidation Engine. I remember  an interview where she claimed that stop losses were kind of stupid 

Watch and laugh 



This just goes to show the kind of manipulation that happens in exchanges. Who knows what Binance or gate.io does behind the scenes, for example

[bbc.reporter]

5) ALAMEDA RESEARCH WAS EXEMPTED FROM AUTO LIQUIDATION ON FTX

This particular one got me shaking my head. With all the data they had about the different position traders make when trading features, they even went far by exempting their positions from the auto-liquidation Engine. I remember  an interview where she claimed that stop losses were kind of stupid  

Watch and laugh  



This just goes to show the kind of manipulation that happens in exchanges. Who knows what Binance or gate.io does behind the scenes, for example

I watched that interview. The interviewers appear to have made it like it was her first couch interview for a porn video hehehee.

What was very head shaking was how they operated their business. They had all the advantages and the gaming cheats given to them, however, they ended their business with losing billions of dollars.

[o_e_l_e_o]

They had all the advantages and the gaming cheats given to them, however, they ended their business with losing billions of dollars.

It's a question I previously posed when Celsius collapsed - what was their exit strategy here?

SBF is clearly doxxed and well known, as is Caroline Ellison. As the court documents show, they kept no records of deposits, they didn't even know what bank accounts they had, and they simply helped themselves to customers' money for their own personal use. They must have realized that at some point people were going to try to withdraw funds which they had already spent and the whole thing was going to come crashing down? Surely they must have realized they were going to get found out eventually, no? The only other possibility is that they hoped that they could continue to attract enough new users to run it as a Ponzi for 50+ years until after they were both dead, which is just hilariously naive.

Imagine being in crypto and still trusting people like this with your coins instead of having them in your own wallet. It beggars belief.

[stompix]

Surely they must have realized they were going to get found out eventually, no? The only other possibility is that they hoped that they could continue to attract enough new users to run it as a Ponzi for 50+ years until after they were both dead, which is just hilariously naive.

I think their plan was simple, keep this up with investors pouring money into it, print more tokens, both in number and multiple types of tokens, and dig in till the bull season comes and be the first to take advantage, then with the money printed out of thin air cover the past loses.

And speaking of being dead before that, I'm pretty sure exchanges take advantage of coins left there for more than a few years and help themselves from the stash, thinking there are enough chances the guy will never come back, and if he does he won't be able to make a proof of funds to recovers his coins. Starbucks had $ 1.2 billion in their cards and apps, probably a ton of that balance was forgotten and will never be used again, for sure all the exchanges know that will happen to some of the customer's funds too, this is why some scammy ones decide to close down when in trouble and leave you only 1-2 months to reclaim the funds, hoping not everyone will get the message on time and will get all of it "legally".

[aysg76]

SBF is clearly doxxed and well known, as is Caroline Ellison. As the court documents show, they kept no records of deposits, they didn't even know what bank accounts they had, and they simply helped themselves to customers' money for their own personal use. They must have realized that at some point people were going to try to withdraw funds which they had already spent and the whole thing was going to come crashing down? Surely they must have realized they were going to get found out eventually, no? The only other possibility is that they hoped that they could continue to attract enough new users to run it as a Ponzi for 50+ years until after they were both dead, which is just hilariously naive.

Imagine being in crypto and still trusting people like this with your coins instead of having them in your own wallet. It beggars belief.

Exactly they were not expecting this reality to be out soon and keep on the same way till the time CZ decided to dump the FTT token and whole balance sheet got leaked causing the crash of the FTX and another scam which involved $600 million of funds stolen is great way to cover up your story and gain funds in your custody.At this time SBF is under government supervision but yes they were trying to scam people as much possible through the exchange working.They had in mind that they can use your funds as not whole people are coming up for withdrawal and even if they show up they will be imposed with restrictions but the whole scenario got worst when cover for Sam was blown and now he is on the run.

People keeping up their coins with these exchange have learnt their another lesson that what it seems might not be the case and there is lot of scam here until you take custody of your funds with yourself because others will try to scam you always.

[dkbit98]

SBF is clearly doxxed and well known, as is Caroline Ellison. As the court documents show, they kept no records of deposits, they didn't even know what bank accounts they had, and they simply helped themselves to customers' money for their own personal use.

I think it's very obvious that Sam and Caroline are just puppets in this game controlled by bigger players, they both came out from nowhere and made exchange with top volume in just few months.
This is not even possible in Disneyland and fantasy cartoons, especially when we know their connection with various politicians, and supporting creation of other shitcoins.
Either this, or both of them are plain stupid if they thought they can continue doing stuff like this, it's like combination of Theranos and cult like Nexivm, but in crypto style

I think their plan was simple, keep this up with investors pouring money into it, print more tokens, both in number and multiple types of tokens, and dig in till the bull season comes and be the first to take advantage, then with the money printed out of thin air cover the past loses.

Problem is that nobody knows exactly when bull and bear run is going to start and finish.
People also though Theranos and Nexivm were great, heck some people still think they are great.



All scammers in Forbes  

[bbc.reporter]

They had all the advantages and the gaming cheats given to them, however, they ended their business with losing billions of dollars.

It's a question I previously posed when Celsius collapsed - what was their exit strategy here?

SBF is clearly doxxed and well known, as is Caroline Ellison. As the court documents show, they kept no records of deposits, they didn't even know what bank accounts they had, and they simply helped themselves to customers' money for their own personal use. They must have realized that at some point people were going to try to withdraw funds which they had already spent and the whole thing was going to come crashing down? Surely they must have realized they were going to get found out eventually, no? The only other possibility is that they hoped that they could continue to attract enough new users to run it as a Ponzi for 50+ years until after they were both dead, which is just hilariously naive.

Imagine being in crypto and still trusting people like this with your coins instead of having them in your own wallet. It beggars belief.

All of the information about Sam and Caroline is making FTX and Alameda Research appear to be a scam and a ponzi scheme that was created to launder money for some of the biggest political groups within the Democratic party. Read everything about Sam Bankman-Fried's mother and Caroline Ellison's father. All of them have connections to the the government and the Biden administration.

Also, watch the interview in this tweet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Hedgeye/status/1591240664779743232

[o_e_l_e_o]

I think their plan was simple, keep this up with investors pouring money into it, print more tokens, both in number and multiple types of tokens, and dig in till the bull season comes and be the first to take advantage, then with the money printed out of thin air cover the past loses.

Which as I said is just hilariously naive. All Ponzi's collapse eventually, and when you are a publicly doxxed head of one, you won't be able to escape that.

I'm pretty sure exchanges take advantage of coins left there for more than a few years and help themselves from the stash

Sure, but that's never going to be enough to cover the billions of dollars worth of customers' crypto they simply helped themselves to.

Either this, or both of them are plain stupid if they thought they can continue doing stuff like this

Before this FTX debacle I hadn't watched interviews with either of them because I simply didn't care, but having watched some now they certainly both come across very amateurish and not particularly well thought out in their opinions or positions. I wonder if many FTX users bothered to investigate them before depositing coins to their scam.

[dkbit98]

Before this FTX debacle I hadn't watched interviews with either them because I simply didn't care, but having watched some now they certainly both come across very amateurish and not particularly well thought out in their opinions or positions. I wonder if many FTX users bothered to investigate them before depositing coins to their scam.

Well I have to admit and say that I used them few times for small amount of coins, only because they didn't have any fees for withdrawing Bitcoin, and I didn't have to pass any kyc verificatrion.
I withdraw my few sats in last moments, and I think that few hours after that all withdrawals got halted and stopped, so I didn't lost any coins in this fiasco
This was just my risky experiment and testing, and I don't suggest anyone to hold coins in centralized exchanges at all.

[bbc.reporter]

News update. The FTX comedy show continues.

I cannot understand what the lawyers are doing. Alameda Research wants to sue and receive $445 million from Voyager for funding Alameda when Caroline Ellison needed more liquidity for her gambling addiction?This is head scratching. There should be a hidden agenda there somewhere unless I misunderstood everything.



FTX-linked Alameda Research sues Voyager Digital for over $445M

Lawyers are seeking to recover funds that Alameda Research paid to Voyager after the crypto lender filed for bankruptcy protection in July and before Alameda Research filed for bankruptcy protection.

“Largely lost in the (justified) attention paid to the alleged misconduct of Alameda and its now-indicted former leadership has been the role played by Voyager and other cryptocurrency ‘lenders’ who funded Alameda and fueled that alleged misconduct, either knowingly or recklessly,” lawyers for FTX and Alameda wrote in the filing.

Source https://www.theblock.co/post/206907/ftx-linked-alameda-research-sues-voyager-digital-for-over-445m

[virasog]

News update. The FTX comedy show continues.

I cannot understand what the lawyers are doing. Alameda Research wants to sue and receive $445 million from Voyager for funding Alameda when Caroline Ellison needed more liquidity for her gambling addiction?This is head scratching. There should be a hidden agenda there somewhere unless I misunderstood everything.

Sometimes i feel that all these firms including FTX, Alameda Research, Voyager etc are playing with people's emotions and showing that how strong they are and how weak we are.
They can bring any bullS**t news which have no common sense. They think they have all the rights to fool the retailers and those who showed trust in these firms.

We opted for bitcoin over fiat, we believed in decentralization, but all these centralized platforms are playing dirty games with us.  

[bbc.reporter]

FTX will unbite the dust?

It appears that FTX might return and it might be operational before the end of 2024. It is rumored that among the creditors are the whales of the cryptospace who have an interest to witness it come back from death. I speculate those whales have hundreds of millions of their own money that they cannot withdrawn unless FTX is back to profitability.

However, will the community consider the return of FTX a bullish occurrence or a bearish one?

Also, a news update. FTX is suing Sam heehehhehe.



Failed crypto exchange FTX is suing co-founder and former Chief Executive Sam Bankman-Fried and others, seeking to claw back about $240 million related to the company’s acquisition of stock-trading platform Embed.

In a filing Wednesday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Delaware, FTX claimed Bankman-Fried and others — including FTX co-founders Zixiao Wang and Nishad Singh — conducted little to no due diligence and rushed the $240 million acquisition ahead of FTX’s collapse last November.

The lawsuit claimed money for the Embed acquisition came from Alameda Research, FTX’s affiliated hedge fund, which had illegally diverted assets belonging to FTX — constituting fraud.

Source https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ftx-sues-sam-bankman-fried-and-others-seeking-to-claw-back-240-million-from-embed-deal-26ee5565

[bbc.reporter]

News update.

Temasek Holdings, an investment company from Singapore will reduce the compensations of the team that recommended the company to invest in FTX hehe. It clearly was a disappointment. Everyone thought that Sam would change how the cryptospace game is played with their sponsorships on sports teams, sports stars and sports stadiums. FTX was everywhere from Formula 1 to NFL and the NBA. I reckon if only Sam played by the rules and with Binance running from the regulators, FTX might have become the biggest exchange in the cryptospace by 2026.



Temasek, as an investor-owner, seeks to deliver sustainable returns over the long term. While there are inherent risks whenever we invest, we believe that we have to invest in new sectors and emerging technologies to understand how these areas may impact the business and financial models of our existing portfolio, and whether they would be drivers of future value in an ever-changing world. This is why we invest into early stage companies.

With FTX, as alleged by prosecutors and as admitted by key executives at FTX and its affiliates, there was fraudulent conduct intentionally hidden from investors, including Temasek. Nevertheless, we are disappointed with the outcome of our investment, and the negative impact on our reputation.

An independent team has conducted an internal review of the investment and the findings were directly presented to the Board Risk & Sustainability Committee and to our Board. Although there was no misconduct by the investment team in reaching their investment recommendation, the investment team and senior management, who are ultimately responsible for investment decisions made, took collective accountability and had their compensation reduced.

Source https://www.temasek.com.sg/en/news-and-resources/news-room/statements/2023/our-chairman-statement-on-ftx-internal-review