[Updated] FTX

[Rikafip]

SBF has a huge hole of 8 billion bucks, and suddenly he is allowed to spend a quarter of a billion on his own comfort. Why was this money not seized immediately? What kind of crazy prioritization is this? And in general, a month ago he was lying that he only had 100k left, and now the money has suddenly appeared.

As a matter of fact he didn't have to spend a single dollar to get released from jail. At least not according to this article where its explained how this bond thing works.

The former FTX CEO arrived in New York from the Bahamas on Dec. 21 and appeared in court on Dec. 22, where he was released on bail via a “personal recognizance bond” — essentially a written promise from the defendant that they will show up for future court appearances and not engage in any illegal activity while out on bail.

According to the release agreement filed on Dec. 22, no cash was required to be deposited with the court, but the bond conditions see to it that Bankman-Fried’s parent’s five-bedroom home in Palo Alto will be used as collateral for the $250 million bond.

In the other news, more info from Caroline Ellison plea hearing has been released, in which she admitted that her and SBF were both involved in hiding billions of dollars worth of loans that FTX was giving to their buddies. So yeah, it looks like she is ratting him out and not the other way around.

In the transcript of her December 19th plea hearing, Caroline Ellison admitted to hiding Alameda Research’s billion-dollar loans from FTX. Ellison was the CEO of Alameda Research, and one of the three executives implicated in the fraud case against FTX. She pleaded guilty at the subsequent hearing and spoke on the extent of her, and Sam Bankman-Fried’s enterprise.

According to the transcript reported by Reuters, Ellison, Sam Bankman-Fried, and other executives would receive billion-dollar loans from Alameda Research. Furthermore, the hearing shows the crypto hedge fund was able to borrow unlimited assets from the exchange platform.

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[franky1]

As a matter of fact he didn't have to spend a single dollar to get released from jail. At least not according to his article where its explained how this bond thing works.

The former FTX CEO arrived in New York from the Bahamas on Dec. 21 and appeared in court on Dec. 22, where he was released on bail via a “personal recognizance bond” — essentially a written promise from the defendant that they will show up for future court appearances and not engage in any illegal activity while out on bail.

According to the release agreement filed on Dec. 22, no cash was required to be deposited with the court, but the bond conditions see to it that Bankman-Fried’s parent’s five-bedroom home in Palo Alto will be used as collateral for the $250 million bond.

only in 'e-murica'
a place where you can say a massive number but never need to have the money to back it up

[pixie85]

But what also surprises me is that it was worth the SBF being released on bail, as this was the reason ... for the FTT pump by 25%.

Who even buys this shit? This is almost as amazing as pumps on Tera Luna when there's an international warrant for Do Kwon.

As a matter of fact he didn't have to spend a single dollar to get released from jail. At least not according to this article where its explained how this bond thing works.

Also, If I understand it correctly there's a bond and a bail. A bail is the amount you have to pay and it's only 10% of the total bond or even less like 5% so they only needed to procure about 25 million dollars to get him out.

Also there were 4 people that added to the pile so I doubt that any of the money were customer funds. If that was proven he'd get destroyed in court even more than he's going to be.

[Rikafip]

Who even buys this shit? This is almost as amazing as pumps on Tera Luna when there's an international warrant for Do Kwon.

Manipulators and gamblers. If there's no lack of something in crypto, its those two things.

Also, If I understand it correctly there's a bond and a bail. A bail is the amount you have to pay and it's only 10% of the total bond or even less like 5% so they only needed to procure about 25 million dollars to get him out.

That's the thing, thanks to personal recognizance bond deal SBF didn't even need to have 25 million USD. All he needed is for his parents to offer their $4M worth house as a collateral and he was released and beside him and his parents, bond had to be signed by another person that is not part of the family. No cash involved whatsoever and its usually granted to those who are not perceived as a flight risk.

[NotATether]

But what also surprises me is that it was worth the SBF being released on bail, as this was the reason ... for the FTT pump by 25%.

When you take proportions into account, 25% jump is not a big deal. Because it did not recover 25% of its ATH at $78 or something like that, it jumped only from $0.90 to $1.10, so it's an increase by pennies

[JayJuanGee]

Who even buys this shit? This is almost as amazing as pumps on Tera Luna when there's an international warrant for Do Kwon.

Manipulators and gamblers. If there's no lack of something in crypto, its those two things.

Also, If I understand it correctly there's a bond and a bail. A bail is the amount you have to pay and it's only 10% of the total bond or even less like 5% so they only needed to procure about 25 million dollars to get him out.

That's the thing, thanks to personal recognizance bond deal SBF didn't even need to have 25 million USD. All he needed is for his parents to offer their $4M worth house as a collateral and he was released and beside him and his parents, bond had to be signed by another person that is not part of the family. No cash involved whatsoever and its usually granted to those who are not perceived as a flight risk.

What happens if the parents of SBF also become implicated more than they are already implicated on the level that we have already been hearing in public regarding their having had received properties and funding in connection with FTX/Alameda/SBF... and also that they might have been involved in some of the soliciting of endorsements, referring attorneys and maybe even going over some of the legal paperwork involved in structuring the company and various legal avoidance (aka fraud) strategies.

If they are all implicated.. at least SBF and his parents, then his parents would be worthy of jail time, too. and they might all figure out a plan in which they all avoid jail time... Really, if justice is going to be served, there may well be justice involved in setting up those fraud shell companies and the several practices of siphoning money off that we are finding out about.. and yeah, maybe his parents were not really involve and that shit is made up... but many folks consider that there may well have been some family involvements of SBF and also Caroline.. and I have not really heard too much about some of the possible nefarious nepotistic behaviors of Wang, so far...seems like the vast majority of profits were flowing through Sam.. and that some of the other were receiving pittances of pay-offs in comparison to Sam.. but still some of those connections and that information is still being fleshed out and allegations in complaints are left general and vague on purpose - and the actual evidence - to the extent that any of it might come publicly available can start to inform connections that may still be trying to be covered up. and that some folks do not want some of the connections to be made publicly.. because prosecutors might also be forced into directions that they do not want to go, either.

[freedomno1]

If you check Twitter and r/CryptoCurrency, you'll see a lot of warnings about FTX[1], especially now after CZ decided to liquidate FTT (FTX token).

I don't claim to know what's going on, as I'm just sharing some of the things I've read the last few hours, but just to be safe and even though FTX CEO denied the rumors[2], it may still be a good idea to withdraw your funds from the exchange, for now at least.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/yo4vf7/serious_ftx_rumors_securing_your_crypto/
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/yo6kxe/ftx_ceo_pretty_much_confirms_mass_exodus_from_the/

That was a good call when you wrote this now I am just following it on Altcoindaily man the bitcointalk days were fun times

[Rikafip]

SBF allegedly cashed out $684k from Seychelles exchange while being under house arrest. So much about having only $100K left lol (not that anyone believed it anyway). At first I thought he surely isn't that stupid but then I remembered all the stupid things he did lately so I wouldn't be surprised if he tried something like this.

According to BowTiedIguana’s analysis, SBF’s public address (0xD5758) on Dec. 28 sent all remaining Ether to a newly created address (0x7386d). BowTiedIguana noted that SBF took over the address that was originally owned by Sushiswap creator from Chef Nomi in August 2020.

Within hours, 0x7386d received transfers totaling $367,000 from 32 addresses identified as Alameda Research wallets, with an additional $322,000 coming from other wallets. All funds were sent to a centralized crypto exchange in Seychelles and to the crypto bridge RenBridge, according to the DeFi analyst.

Twitter thread with more info https://twitter.com/BowTiedIguana/status/1608653434387050496

[Rikafip]

After his closest buddies Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang pleaded guilty, SBF decided to go another route and pleaded not guilty on all charges. Bold move I must admit, after those two pleading guilty.

In a development that many expected, former CEO Sam Bankman-Fried officially pleads not guilty in the FTX fraud case. The Tuesday hearing has seen the disgraced founders’ official plea to criminal charges by United States prosecutors of fraud and conspiracy,

Bankman-Fried is accused of utilizing customer assets from his now-bankrupt crypto exchange platform to fund bets through hedge fund Alameda Research. Moreover, his not-guilty plea differs from the action taken by Alameda CEO Caroline Ellison, and fellow FTX founder Gary Wang.

[JayJuanGee]

After his closest buddies Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang pleaded guilty, SBF decided to go another route and pleaded not guilty on all charges. Bold move I must admit, after those two pleading guilty.

In a development that many expected, former CEO Sam Bankman-Fried officially pleads not guilty in the FTX fraud case. The Tuesday hearing has seen the disgraced founders’ official plea to criminal charges by United States prosecutors of fraud and conspiracy,
Bankman-Fried is accused of utilizing customer assets from his now-bankrupt crypto exchange platform to fund bets through hedge fund Alameda Research. Moreover, his not-guilty plea differs from the action taken by Alameda CEO Caroline Ellison, and fellow FTX founder Gary Wang.

There is absolutely nothing abnormal or unusual about a not guilty plea at the first arraignment, even if he plans to negotiate some kind of settlement in the coming days or weeks.

I am not even going to say that I have very many ideas about the likelihood that this kind of a matter would go to trial, but it does seem quite regular that a primary defendant is going to plea not guilty.

The early witnesses are in a different situation... they are like the whistle blowers and or the ones that helped to build the case against Sam and against FTX.. sure, they might have ended up getting prosecuted.. but it seems that they turned themselves in.. and chose to cooperate quite early on.

Whether the other two early witnesses get overly delicate treatment may or may not be the case.  The two of them surely seemed to have had plead to pretty severe charges already.. maybe more than they needed to plea to.. but who knows, this has already been a quite rapidly developing and even quite a BIG matter, too.

[Rikafip]

The early witnesses are in a different situation... they are like the whistle blowers and or the ones that helped to build the case against Sam and against FTX.. sure, they might have ended up getting prosecuted.. but it seems that they turned themselves in.. and chose to cooperate quite early on.

That's why I thought that SBF might plead guilty, seeing that chances of him being acquitted after those two pleading guilty are slim to none. You are right though, it may be a part of the tactic as I read that by pleading not guilty his case enters discovery process so his lawyers can take a look at all the evidence they have against him and then later try to get a deal.

Considering all the bullshit that he was publicly saying about not doing anything wrong + two (at least) witnesses against him, going for a trial would be a stupid move imho. Anyway, still plenty of time left until October 2nd when trial should start.

[bbc.reporter]

My prediction on the conclusion of Sam Bankrupt-Fried's case on October.

He will be fined and he will be freed. His mother's connections with those politicians in Democtratic party will make certain of this because if he is charged guilty, there are important people in FTX that might also be implicated. They will be protected. The case will also mention Binance and CZ's liquidity attack on FTT causing a cascade of dumps that triggered the destruction of FTX. The American government will certainly use this to start a campaign against Binance. They have always looked for a reason to crackdown the biggest exchange, however, CZ appears to play cat and mouse very well hehehe.

However, he cannot play cat and mouse forever against the American government. I will not hold any coin in Binance if the case begin mentioning CZ.

[macson]

My prediction on the conclusion of Sam Bankrupt-Fried's case on October.

He will be fined and he will be freed. His mother's connections with those politicians in Democtratic party will make certain of this because if he is charged guilty, there are important people in FTX that might also be implicated. They will be protected. The case will also mention Binance and CZ's liquidity attack on FTT causing a cascade of dumps that triggered the destruction of FTX. The American government will certainly use this to start a campaign against Binance. They have always looked for a reason to crackdown the biggest exchange, however, CZ appears to play cat and mouse very well hehehe.

However, he cannot play cat and mouse forever against the American government. I will not hold any coin in Binance if the case begin mentioning CZ.

so your prediction, SBF and the political figure behind it will attack CZ and Binance again, if this happens then the crypto market will be volatile again, withdrawing all assets from CEX, is a wise move.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTX

FTX Trading Ltd., commonly known as FTX (short for "Futures Exchange"),[5] is a bankrupt company that formerly operated a cryptocurrency exchange and crypto hedge fund.[6][7] The exchange was founded in 2019 and, at its peak in July 2021, had over one million users and was the third-largest cryptocurrency exchange by volume.

https://restructuring.ra.kroll.com/FTX/

[OmegaStarScream]

I guess everyone heard of what happened with the Celsius case yesterday[1]. Do you guys think we could see a different outcome for FTX?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-judge-says-celsius-network-owns-most-customer-crypto-deposits-2023-01-05/

[Rikafip]

He will be fined and he will be freed. His mother's connections with those politicians in Democtratic party will make certain of this because if he is charged guilty, there are important people in FTX that might also be implicated.

That was my initial thought as well, but after those two pleaded guilty I don't think that there's any chance of him getting away with fine only. I mean, both Caroline Ellison and that Yang guy pleaded guilty for some serious stuff (money laundering conspiracy, wire fraud, securities fraud etc) and probably involved him in all of that.

I don't expect him spending many years in prison either, but I don't think that he will walk away from it as easy as you may think. Don't be so pessimistic.  

[Edwardard]

I guess everyone heard of what happened with the Celsius case yesterday[1]. Do you guys think we could see a different outcome for FTX?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-judge-says-celsius-network-owns-most-customer-crypto-deposits-2023-01-05/

Nothing different. I think ppl should forget about getting their funds back from ftx too. I still haven't heard of a case yet about companies going bankrupt then coming back later again just to return customer funds. Mtgox case is still running (will be a decade soon) with no outcome.
However, these ceos who perform such big scams should be atleast sentenced to life imprisonment.
I know in certain countries, government doesnt even want to get involved in solving crypto related frauds.

[suzanne5223]

I guess everyone heard of what happened with the Celsius case yesterday[1]. Do you guys think we could see a different outcome for FTX?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-judge-says-celsius-network-owns-most-customer-crypto-deposits-2023-01-05/

Nothing different. I think ppl should forget about getting their funds back from ftx too. I still haven't heard of a case yet about companies going bankrupt then coming back later again just to return customer funds. Mtgox case is still running (will be a decade soon) with no outcome.
However, these ceos who perform such big scams should be atleast sentenced to life imprisonment.
I know in certain countries, government doesnt even want to get involved in solving crypto related frauds.

The issue of Mt Gox is different from what happened to FTX and the victim of Mt Gox should have to get back their fund but the people in charge of the funds are playing the institutional banking game. that's they want to make some profit from the fund before they release it to the victim and that why the repayment date was pushed to September 2023 when the bearish market will be over.
About the life imprisonment for the CEOs that performed big scams, that may happen later after SBF because there seems to be a lot of powerful people involved and I believe this is the reason why SBF pleaded not guilty to the fraud charges when he was the mastermind of FTX bankruptcy.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I guess everyone heard of what happened with the Celsius case yesterday[1]. Do you guys think we could see a different outcome for FTX?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-judge-says-celsius-network-owns-most-customer-crypto-deposits-2023-01-05/

Here is the ruling in question: https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/1174901042380000000067.pdf

And a few important quotes:

The Court concludes ... that when the cryptocurrency assets (including stablecoins, discussed in detail below) were deposited in Earn Accounts, the cryptocurrency assets became Celsius’s property

The Court finds, on the evidence before it, that the Terms of Use formed a valid, enforceable contract between the Debtors and Account Holders, and that the Terms unambiguously transfer title and ownership of Earn Assets deposited into Earn Accounts from Accounts Holders to the Debtors

So this has finally been addressed in court and confirms what some of us have been saying all along. As soon you send coins to a centralized exchange, you give up all ownership and all claim to those coins. They are 100% solely the property of the centralized exchange, that centralized exchange can do anything it wants with them, and if something goes wrong (as it has here), you will lose everything.

Remember when Brian Armstrong said he "believes" users wouldn't lose everything in such an event? Or whenever CZ says "FuNdS aRe SaFu"? You can point to this ruling to show that they are 100%, provably, full of shit.

If your bitcoin is on a centralized exchange, then you do not own any bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

I guess everyone heard of what happened with the Celsius case yesterday[1]. Do you guys think we could see a different outcome for FTX?
[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-judge-says-celsius-network-owns-most-customer-crypto-deposits-2023-01-05/

Here is the ruling in question: https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/1174901042380000000067.pdf

And a few important quotes:

The Court concludes ... that when the cryptocurrency assets (including stablecoins, discussed in detail below) were deposited in Earn Accounts, the cryptocurrency assets became Celsius’s property

The Court finds, on the evidence before it, that the Terms of Use formed a valid, enforceable contract between the Debtors and Account Holders, and that the Terms unambiguously transfer title and ownership of Earn Assets deposited into Earn Accounts from Accounts Holders to the Debtors

So this has finally been addressed in court and confirms what some of us have been saying all along. As soon you send coins to a centralized exchange, you give up all ownership and all claim to those coins. They are 100% solely the property of the centralized exchange, that centralized exchange can do anything it wants with them, and if something goes wrong (as it has here), you will lose everything.

Remember when Brian Armstrong said he "believes" users wouldn't lose everything in such an event? Or whenever CZ says "FuNdS aRe SaFu"? You can point to this ruling to show that they are 100%, provably, full of shit.

If your bitcoin is on a centralized exchange, then you do not own any bitcoin.

It is funny when you present the matter with that kind of "frank" talk o_e_l_e_o.

Hopefully, we are going to experience some kind of a real world (call it Streisand effect or whatever) in which the truth of the matter is the opposite.. and people should be doing the opposite - and stop relying on oral representations that do not stand up when the rubber hits the road, the ONLY way to be protected is to hold your own funds without relying on oral representations - and perhaps don't even rely on the written representations because no one really wants to side with the small dogs when they do not have enough money to go around, the small dog does not have anything close to adequate representation in the courts (or administrative systems).

From experiences, we are likely going to continue to witness a lot of folks who still overly rely upon proclamations that their funds are "safu"..... and surely, I am not even against using these kinds of services because there are some needs for price discovery and liquid markets and all of that, yet on an individual level, how much are any of us willing to lose when we find out that the exchange(s) in which we were holding some of our funds were engaging in degenerate gambling practices, and part of the reason that they had been engaging in such degenerate gambling practices was because they had seen that courts will end up siding with them when push comes to shove.. .and how well connected are you in order to get those kinds of favorable rulings? 

I suspect that there are some folks who are more well connected than others, and I doubt that any court (or administrator) in the west would have much if any sympathy towards CZ as compared with Armstrong.. and even that dicktwat SBF is still getting way more sympathies than he likely deserves.. based on connections, and likely many of us likely realize that SBF was a BIG ass fraud from the start (including several of his co-conspirators, it was not just him).. so it seems that he was not even trying to run a legitimate business.. so I am NOT so willing to go down the road of putting CZ in the same box.... there have been a lot of govt officials, TPTB, who would love to get CZ and also to get USD Tether.. and those guys have shown that they are way the fuck more backed than they are made out to be.. and they are not even as close as vacuous as SBF, and surely Terra/Luna bullshit or some of the affiliates.. and surely going down a big road when trying to figure out degrees of culpability and which ones should be in jail and which ones had been operating more legit than others.. including that we are seeing that some of the supposed straight-laced folks like Gemini, Grayscale, Genesis, etc are showing various degrees of fucking around too... and surely some of them had been trying more than others to engage in legitimate (acceptable) business practices, yet it becomes foggy regarding how degenerate they were or how culpable that they might have been when they find a $1.6 billion-ish hole in their balance sheets and trying to figure out how to cover it.. or who is going to get screwed when there are not enough funds to cover the balance sheets - even when trying to project out abilities to potentially recover over several years - there just might not be enough funds there.. so who is going to pay?  rich people or poor people or a combination.. and surely there are gradients of injustices - and also gradients to which any of us might decide to hold some of our funds with these various products (or even wrongly believe that it might be our only option - when the fact of the matter may well be that we have other options, but then we might be willing to gamble. .and end up getting fucked because we miscalculated the amount of "downside" risks that we thought were present).

By the way, I had not invested in any of the earn (or yield products) in recent times, though in 2017 I was earning some interest on bitfinex lending contracts before they kicked all of the USA peeps off of their platform..  but anyhow, what I am wanting to say is that there was a time prior to 2017 in which I had not realized how much exposure I had to various 3rd parties because I did not understand various ways that I was holding my bitcoin and the extent to which I may have had back up keys or whether my keys were being held by someone else, and prior to 2017, it seems that I had more than 50% of my keys held with third parties in various ways (likely higher than I want to concede at this point), and then after I had suffered some losses, I got my exposure to 3rd parties down to less than 20% in 2017/2018 and more recently, in the last year or two, I was likely in the 12%-13% arena, and in the past 6 months, I moved my exposure down to about 8%-ish... I had seen some ways in which I could probably get my 3rd party exposure to down to less than 5%.. but I have been somewhat lazy and reluctant to do it.. so in some sense, I can relate towards keeping some exposure with various 3rd parties... .. and of course, these are calculated risks - and also some desires to support aspects of the BTC infrastructure.. even though I do share realizations that shenanigans continue to exist, in the space..... .. yet in reality.. how much could it even be feasible to completely move into a system in which bitcoiners have a circular economy and we do not even need to rely on the various vulnerabilities of using/supporting third party services for liquidation or going back and forth between the bitcoin world and the fiat world?

Newbies coming into the bitcoin space still seem to have some reliance upon going through various third parties - unless we can figure out how to sell them our coins directly.. so there is a lot of infrastructure (and networking effects) still being built and developing.. and sometimes there are steps forward and other times steps back.  I used to really like getting connected with people through local bitcoins, and then being able to develop direct connections from that.. and surely there can be some advantages to bitcoin meet ups, but still.. there does seem to be needs to have a variety of options, including that there are geographical differences, in terms of options available to people - and countries seem to not quite going as far as El Salvador, yet.. so it does seem to take time for the progress (and options) to spread.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Hopefully, we are going to experience some kind of a real world (call it Streisand effect or whatever) in which the truth of the matter is the opposite.. and people should be doing the opposite - and stop relying on oral representations that do not stand up when the rubber hits the road, the ONLY way to be protected is to hold your own funds without relying on oral representations - and perhaps don't even rely on the written representations because no one really wants to side with the small dogs when they do not have enough money to go around, the small dog does not have anything close to adequate representation in the courts (or administrative systems).

I can't understand why people do this. It is spelt out in every CEX's Terms of Use/Service, which have been carefully written and re-written by a team of lawyers specifically to work in the exchange's favor in every possibly scenario, that any coins you deposit are not yours. In the case of Coinbase, it is spelt out in legally binding contracts mandated by and filed with the SEC (a government agency), that you are an unsecured creditor with essentially no claim to your deposits. And now that has all been tested in court and, completely unsurprisingly, been held up and ruled in the favor of the exchange, confirming that users do not own anything they deposit. And yet people will continue to believe a tweet from a serial liar like Armstrong or CZ over the literal word of the law. It's unbelievable.

how much could it even be feasible to completely move into a system in which bitcoiners have a circular economy and we do not even need to rely on the various vulnerabilities of using/supporting third party services for liquidation or going back and forth between the bitcoin world and the fiat world?

That dream is a long way away yet, but it is still entirely possible (and getting easier every month with new platforms and technologies) to go back and forth between bitcoin and the fiat world without ever needing to hand over your data or your coins to these centralized exchange scams. You just need to have the desire to do so and not just settle for handing your life over to Binance because you saw their ad somewhere.