Foundation Devices 'Passport Batch 2' hardware wallet review

[n0nce]

Regarding suppliers in general, we stick with the ones that do good work for us, and we look for new ones in areas where we are not satisfied. I think the only real way to evaluate a supplier is to run a batch of parts through them and see the output – and of course see how they respond to feedback and iterate.

I know you told us there are no plans for making new devices in near future, but one of my suggestions would be to consider making Passport waterproof or water resistant device.
This probably needs a lot of work in redesign of inside, but even cheaper solutions like waterproof cases for protection would be interesting, and you could sell them separately.
I already know several hardware wallets that started making waterproof devices, so better think about that on time.

I generally like and support the idea of Passport accessories. Consumers can 'freshen up' the look and feel of their device, can improve, better protect or even fix it (Spare parts? Replacement screen? Replacement Keypad? Is something like this an option? Would it be compatible with your security model? What about right to repair?), while the company can keep selling stuff, without pushing out a new hardware wallet every year, making last-gen owners feel left behind.

I've tried to see if it is hard to open the device (e.g. for repairs) and while there seems to be no glue, it fits together very tightly and I was worried about damaging it. But accessories could definitely be purely external; like back shells, screen protectors, silicone cases, carry cases, waterproof cases, ... Although that may demand much more effort than what we (I) expect.

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[Welsh]

better protect or even fix it (Spare parts? Replacement screen? Replacement Keypad? Is something like this an option? Would it be compatible with your security model? What about right to repair?), while the company can keep selling stuff, without pushing out a new hardware wallet every year, making last-gen owners feel left behind.

Yeah, I think replaceable parts is the priority. Especially, if they can be replaced with commonly found components, which I don't think any hardware wallet has managed to do. Obviously, the main software, and chip isn't likely going to be replaceable, but I'm thinking about buttons or screens, batteries, and things like that, which could potentially be made via common components found in other devices. I like that idea, hard to pull off though.

Repair, I'd like to leave to the end user, there's a element of trust needed to send your device in for repair, I have the attitude that physical attacks, are quite unpredictable.

[Pmalek]

I know you told us there are no plans for making new devices in near future, but one of my suggestions would be to consider making Passport waterproof or water resistant device.

It's not a bad idea. But the problem with that is that an already pretty expensive device will become even more expensive if it becomes waterproof.

This probably needs a lot of work in redesign of inside, but even cheaper solutions like waterproof cases for protection would be interesting, and you could sell them separately.

The question is how profitable will it be for the company to produce and brand their own waterproof cases if we can already get cheaper ones elsewhere? I personally wouldn't care about the make of the waterproof case as long as it protects whatever is inside, so I see no reason to go for a more expensive Foundation branded waterproof case.

[NotATether]

To be honest, I don't like that the hardware wallet is shaped like a mobile phone. That makes it more susceptible to theft, since there are a lot of cellphone thieves lurking about in many parts of the world. It doesn't help that it also looks flashy - the bronze look just serves to attract more eyeballs to it.

What's wrong with making it a paper shape or a bracket or even like the Trezor & Ledger - plain designs that do not bring any attention.

[SFR10]

To be honest, I don't like that the hardware wallet is shaped like a mobile phone. That makes it more susceptible to theft, since there are a lot of cellphone thieves lurking about in many parts of the world.

I agree, but I think there's always an option to improve or rather modify its overall look to our liking... @n0nce mentioned "3D-printable custom back cover" in the past and I think sooner or later, they're ^{[or someone else]} going to release STL files for the other parts ^{[e.g. "they released this for the FE"]}.

It doesn't help that it also looks flashy - the bronze look just serves to attract more eyeballs to it.

A service "like this one" might come in handy for getting a different skin for those parts.

[dkbit98]

To be honest, I don't like that the hardware wallet is shaped like a mobile phone. That makes it more susceptible to theft, since there are a lot of cellphone thieves lurking about in many parts of the world. It doesn't help that it also looks flashy - the bronze look just serves to attract more eyeballs to it.

I don't know any thieves who are hunting to steal old style devices looking like phones, and you certainly wont bring Passport device glued to your forehead, or put in on the coffee shop table for everyone to see.

What's wrong with making it a paper shape or a bracket or even like the Trezor & Ledger - plain designs that do not bring any attention.

There are so many wrong things with this tiny design, starting from entering words/numbers, to small screens that can display and verify the whole address, they are cheap and break easily, etc.
And why the heck would they have to copy what others are doing? Passport is unique, they are the first who made this design and now ColdCard is doing similar BlackBerry design.
You have the choice, so use what you like most.

...

I would certainly like to see skins and cases for Passport wallet, for protection from scratches, drops and maybe more.

[DireWolfM14]

To be honest, I don't like that the hardware wallet is shaped like a mobile phone. That makes it more susceptible to theft, since there are a lot of cellphone thieves lurking about in many parts of the world. It doesn't help that it also looks flashy - the bronze look just serves to attract more eyeballs to it.

What's wrong with making it a paper shape or a bracket or even like the Trezor & Ledger - plain designs that do not bring any attention.

I like the look and the feel of the Passport, but I agree it is a bit flashy.  I wasn't sure what to expect but I got an idea the other day; my daughter walked into my home office the other day and she noticed the passport right away.  I think she was kind of shocked that I had a candy-bar phone in 2023, and right away asked "What is that".

The idea that it looks like an old-school phone might make some ignore it, but then again it's rather odd in this day and age for someone to have a phone of that shape and size.  That alone might make some people more curious.  The device itself doesn't have any indication that it's a bitcoin wallet, and it would take some one who knew that "Foundation" is a wallet manufacturer to recognize it for what it is.

As for other devices, the Nano S and the ColdCard are probably the best designs from an "incognito" perspective.  I will say that the Passport is by far the best hardware wallet I've ever used.  The quality is second to none, and it's very easy to use for an air-gapped wallet.  My ColdCard Mk4 can also be used air-gapped, but it's more cumbersome to use, especially if you have long, complex passphrase wallets you like to access regularly.

[n0nce]

What's wrong with making it a paper shape or a bracket or even like the Trezor & Ledger - plain designs that do not bring any attention.

Paper shape? Electronics need some space..

I must say from my own usage that it is extremely comfortable to use with this shape. I've had wired hardware wallets with cables sticking out the side and bottom; neither was perfect, especially with short cables. If a device is too narrow or thin, it becomes awkward to hold. Some devices need to be held by the side, but have the buttons.. on the side. Others are too tiny to hold on to while pressing buttons, so you need to lay them on the table.
This device, you can use it one-handed, long passphrases, no issue whatsoever. It may even look less conspicuous, to be honest. I do agree that it would look less flashy in an all-black variant, for instance.

While they were obviously inspired by mobile phones when designing this, we should consider that mobile phones reached that shape over years of trial and error.

As for other devices, the Nano S and the ColdCard are probably the best designs from an "incognito" perspective.

I agree with the Ledger, but ColdCard looks pretty odd, even more than an old candybar phone, no? Especially when connecting a 9V battery with a dangling cable to power it on.

[DireWolfM14]

I must say from my own usage that it is extremely comfortable to use with this shape. I've had wired hardware wallets with cables sticking out the side and bottom; neither was perfect, especially with short cables. If a device is too narrow or thin, it becomes awkward to hold. Some devices need to be held by the side, but have the buttons.. on the side. Others are too tiny to hold on to while pressing buttons, so you need to lay them on the table.
This device, you can use it one-handed, long passphrases, no issue whatsoever. It may even look less conspicuous, to be honest. I do agree that it would look less flashy in an all-black variant, for instance.

While they were obviously inspired by mobile phones when designing this, we should consider that mobile phones reached that shape over years of trial and error.

Yeah, the Passport is very comfortable to use, and ergonomically superior to other brands.  It's worth noting the weight of the wallet as well; it comes off heavy at first, but it's heft feels good when using it with one hand.  Just something for the weight-conscious professional cyclists to consider. 

As for other devices, the Nano S and the ColdCard are probably the best designs from an "incognito" perspective.

I agree with the Ledger, but ColdCard looks pretty odd, even more than an old candybar phone, no? Especially when connecting a 9V battery with a dangling cable to power it on.

To me the ColdCards (Mk series) look like a small, cheap calculator that old people got for free when they started a bank account.  Notably, my kids have walked in on me with the ColdCard on my desk an never even noticed it.  They expect me to be an old fogy, but I guess a candy-bar phone is where they draw the line.

[JayJuanGee]

As for other devices, the Nano S and the ColdCard are probably the best designs from an "incognito" perspective.

I agree with the Ledger, but ColdCard looks pretty odd, even more than an old candybar phone, no? Especially when connecting a 9V battery with a dangling cable to power it on.

To me the ColdCards (Mk series) look like a small, cheap calculator that old people got for free when they started a bank account.  Notably, my kids have walked in on me with the ColdCard on my desk an never even noticed it.  They expect me to be an old fogy, but I guess a candy-bar phone is where they draw the line.

I understand the concept of NOT drawing attention.. and then having some kind of a quick explanation to just "shut them up" or to inspire anyone (including kids) NOT to inquire further.  The response surely does not need to be the truth, depending on the age/maturity & ways that you might be involving the kid in your "bitcoin related" business matters.  I already consider that kids are going to need to know some of these things, but surely there are times, places, and age-appropriateness (and even parental/relationship discretion) in terms of if, when and how much to introduce them to some of your own personal financial/security matters.

Your response:  "It's a communication device"

Kid: "For what?"

You:  "I use it for work"

Kid:  "Why not use a regular phone? My Iphone does everything.  blah blah blah"

You: "This one has some special features that need to be kept separate from the phone."

Now getting the attention of a security person or even someone who might be targeting certain kinds of devices, there may well be needs to tweak your answers, though maybe you can start out with similar responses, and if they continue to inquire, then you might need to provide them with additional information.... so in continuation with the same above questions, the security guard asks:

Security Guard:  "I never seen one of those.. It kind of looks like a phone but it seems like it is not a phone"

You:  " I like to think of it like a Yubikey card.  Have you ever heard about a Yubikey?"

Security Guard:  "It doesn't look like a Yubikey"

You:  " I was just told by my work people that Yubikey was not safe, so they moved to another system"

From my perspective, in any kind of inquiry, sometimes you still want to answer questions, and your level of rights to stay silent is going to vary from location to location.. and of course, many folks worry about how many rights to privacy are lost when crossing borders.. but that still might not mean that you need to continue to speak if there are too many questions that seem to be overly probing.. and of course, plausible deniability too.. and then if it is recognized as a certain kind of device that "is being targeted or not."

I don't want to get too far off topic because crossing borders may well be a question that is different from using such device in an office in which people might come in, or will the maid recognize it, or are you going to use it in public at a Starbucks or in the lobby of a hotel.. perhaps there might be some occasions in which you might engage in public use of the device or that you might have to show the device or it get's attention when you are going through security checks, which seem to be located in a lot more places these days... but maybe if the security folks are looking for a bomb, then they might wonder if your device might be a detonator...so if they recognize the device (as a bitcoin wallet/signing device), then that might be better in some circumstances... so maybe sometimes NOT having a device that has a removable battery might be better than having a device with removable batteries.. when crossing borders.

[dkbit98]

As for other devices, the Nano S and the ColdCard are probably the best designs from an "incognito" perspective.

If you want incognito hardware wallet, than I guess best option for you is credit card format hardware wallets (Tangem, Satochip, etc.) that don't have any screen, and they communicate with application on smartphone.
You can carry this card format wallets in your wallet, most of them are waterproof, and can last for decades... all other hardware wallets are not incognito at all, and I saw most of them.

I agree with the Ledger, but ColdCard looks pretty odd, even more than an old candybar phone, no? Especially when connecting a 9V battery with a dangling cable to power it on.

hahaha....imagine having all this stuff in your pocket as ''portable'' device
And for new gigantic ColdCard Q1 device you probably need to have some special kind of pockets.

Yeah, the Passport is very comfortable to use, and ergonomically superior to other brands.  It's worth noting the weight of the wallet as well; it comes off heavy at first, but it's heft feels good when using it with one hand.  Just something for the weight-conscious professional cyclists to consider.  

I think that Passport is lighter than most smartphones but it could be even lighter if they used cheaper materials.
My question is what happens with Passport if it falls on ground   because I have a bad habit of dropping things, phones, etc.
Did anyone conduct any testing, even accidental drop test?

so maybe sometimes NOT having a device that has a removable battery might be better than having a device with removable batteries.. when crossing borders.

Again, best option for this is credit card style hardware wallets, that is mixed with regular cards and paper bills in your leather wallet.

[DireWolfM14]

~

Lol, lucky for me I trust my kids.  They are all responsible adults, so the conversation about the Passport actually went like this:

Daughter: What's that?
Papa: The best hardware wallet I've ever used.
Daughter: Oh yeah, I can see that.  It looks cool.  It resembles an old phone, is it supposed to?

As for the security guard at the airport, he will never see the Passport.  I travel with the ColdCard which seems to attract no attention in my experience.

If you want incognito hardware wallet, than I guess best option for you is credit card format hardware wallets (Tangem, Satochip, etc.) that don't have any screen, and they communicate with application on smartphone.
You can carry this card format wallets in your wallet, most of them are waterproof, and can last for decades... all other hardware wallets are not incognito at all, and I saw most of them.

I don't know about all that.  First off, I refuse to load my hardware wallets into my phone.  I have a few hundred bucks in my hot wallet, and that's usually all I need. 

Second, if I travel for more than just a weekend (and potentially need more funds,) I'll need to have a computer with me for other reasons, and I prefer to have the ColdCard with me.  And realistically a "cheap calculator" is less likely to get stolen than a credit card.

Third, I don't know how you can say that NFC chips will last for decades.  They haven't even been around for decades, and mine start failing after keeping them in my wallet for a couple of years.

[n0nce]

I agree with the Ledger, but ColdCard looks pretty odd, even more than an old candybar phone, no? Especially when connecting a 9V battery with a dangling cable to power it on.

hahaha....imagine having all this stuff in your pocket as ''portable'' device
And for new gigantic ColdCard Q1 device you probably need to have some special kind of pockets.

Don't you worry. I just saw on their website, they now offer the perfect pants to carry it around.


It is a joke!

Did anyone conduct any testing, even accidental drop test?

Not yet! Now you gave me an idea.. I have thought about requesting hardware wallet 'review units' instead of always buying them from my pocket, but the dilemma would be that you're usually allowed to keep them. I could solve that by just performing a drop test / durability test until failure for each device. The flaw with this approach is that sample size N=1 is a bad idea to draw conclusions like that. You could be unlucky and be the 1 in 1,000,000 whose device is exceptionally strong or weak.

so maybe sometimes NOT having a device that has a removable battery might be better than having a device with removable batteries.. when crossing borders.

Again, best option for this is credit card style hardware wallets, that is mixed with regular cards and paper bills in your leather wallet.

Or just software wallets... But this is getting off-topic! Happy to discuss hardware wallets and border security in a dedicated thread, of course.

As for the security guard at the airport, he will never see the Passport.  I travel with the ColdCard which seems to attract no attention in my experience.

Interesting. As mentioned, I'd love to talk more about this in a dedicated thread and hopefully also collect people's experiences.
Now that I think about it, we may be totally overthinking it. Through the sheer number of electronics they pass through their scanners every day, they might have 'seen it all' and don't really care about a modern candybar-phone-looking device whatsoever.

[dkbit98]

I don't know about all that.  First off, I refuse to load my hardware wallets into my phone.  I have a few hundred bucks in my hot wallet, and that's usually all I need.

You are not ''loading'' anything on your phone, it's just interface and your keys/coins are still on hardware wallet.
Some cards work with laptop, so you can carry that with yourself, you can even carry your whole mobile office if you want along with ugly fake calculator.

And realistically a "cheap calculator" is less likely to get stolen than a credit card.

It's fake calculator that can't work without cable or some weird battery gadget, so only an idiot would think this is real calculator, but I could argue that you would be very much suspicious and draw attention because people don't use calculators anymore.

Third, I don't know how you can say that NFC chips will last for decades.  They haven't even been around for decades, and mine start failing after keeping them in my wallet for a couple of years.

I never said NFC chips will last decades, but they probably will last long time.
I was speaking about material cards are made off, same as credit cards... it's common fact they can last decades, and some of them are waterproof or made of metal.
Nothing can break and there are no mechanical parts, no screen and no buttons, so they are very durable.

Don't you worry. I just saw on their website, they now offer the perfect pants to carry it around.

Oh great, price matches new ColdBerry perfectly, so let's buy reserve one pair for DireWolf in camo color combination and super BIG pockets so he can blend in everywhere with his portable devices

[n0nce]

I don't know about all that.  First off, I refuse to load my hardware wallets into my phone.  I have a few hundred bucks in my hot wallet, and that's usually all I need.

You are not ''loading'' anything on your phone, it's just interface and your keys/coins are still on hardware wallet.

Well, I get what DireWolfM14 is saying. Many mobile apps don't have as many options that the big desktop wallets. Many are not open-source, or they're not reproducible, don't allow you to change the Electrum server, don't have Tor, ...
Since you do store the xpub in the software wallet and there is some risk (of compromised privacy) when losing it / someone getting a copy of it, I understand why someone wants to stay on the cautious side with mobile wallets.

Don't you worry. I just saw on their website, they now offer the perfect pants to carry it around.

Oh great, price matches new ColdBerry perfectly, so let's buy reserve one pair for DireWolf in camo color combination and super BIG pockets so he can blend in everywhere with his portable devices

To be honest, I still don't think it is huge, either.. T9 seems like an awfully good sweet spot between size and usability. The electronics of Q1 should be much more compact than what we're seeing here. Its size is mostly influenced by the keyboard, in my opinion.


Please let's stay on-topic (Foundation Passport)...

[DireWolfM14]

You are not ''loading'' anything on your phone, it's just interface and your keys/coins are still on hardware wallet.
Some cards work with laptop, so you can carry that with yourself, you can even carry your whole mobile office if you want along with ugly fake calculator.

You don't have to believe me, but I do know how hardware wallets work.

It's fake calculator that can't work without cable or some weird battery gadget, so only an idiot would think this is real calculator, but I could argue that you would be very much suspicious and draw attention because people don't use calculators anymore.

I'm a middle-aged mechanical engineer.  I don't go anywhere without my HP48.

I never said NFC chips will last decades, but they probably will last long time.
I was speaking about material cards are made off, same as credit cards... it's common fact they can last decades, and some of them are waterproof or made of metal.
Nothing can break and there are no mechanical parts, no screen and no buttons, so they are very durable.

Oh, I see what you were saying now; the functional part may fail, but the rest of it will last decades.

[JayJuanGee]

~

Lol, lucky for me I trust my kids.  They are all responsible adults, so the conversation about the Passport actually went like this:

Daughter: What's that?
Papa: The best hardware wallet I've ever used.
Daughter: Oh yeah, I can see that.  It looks cool.  It resembles an old phone, is it supposed to?

As for the security guard at the airport, he will never see the Passport.  I travel with the ColdCard which seems to attract no attention in my experience.

If you want incognito hardware wallet, than I guess best option for you is credit card format hardware wallets (Tangem, Satochip, etc.) that don't have any screen, and they communicate with application on smartphone.
You can carry this card format wallets in your wallet, most of them are waterproof, and can last for decades... all other hardware wallets are not incognito at all, and I saw most of them.

I don't know about all that.  First off, I refuse to load my hardware wallets into my phone.  I have a few hundred bucks in my hot wallet, and that's usually all I need. 

Second, if I travel for more than just a weekend (and potentially need more funds,) I'll need to have a computer with me for other reasons, and I prefer to have the ColdCard with me.  And realistically a "cheap calculator" is less likely to get stolen than a credit card.

Third, I don't know how you can say that NFC chips will last for decades.  They haven't even been around for decades, and mine start failing after keeping them in my wallet for a couple of years.

Of course when crossing borders or otherwise put in a position in which someone might violate their authority over you or infringe upon your rights, including possibly your various sovereignty rights that you do not even need to disclose or argue that you have, there are a variety of ways in which your devices do not need to be loaded with visible funds.. but of course, they might need to be loaded with some funds and some recent transactions in order to potentially cause an attacker, whether state authorized or a private attacker from potentially believing that you are NOT disclosing what they might conclude (falsely or otherwise) what they believe that you "should disclose."

So for example, even if your devices are confiscated because perhaps there is a perception that you are carrying value on that device (even though we know the value is not really carried on the device  - even though access to the value could be facilitated by such device), there may well need to be a back up plan in which numbers and letters could be put together and reloaded on the other side of that event and to get access to funds - if there is a desire to have access to value in some location in which it might be presumed that you do not have much if any value to transact for your own personal purposes.

In the past, I have gotten confused about derivation paths and trying to figure out how to access some funds if using a different device and sometimes I have had trouble not being able to load funds or there is some level of incompatibility that I cannot figure out in a short period of time in which all of the accounts are not shown when I reload the device - and I don't claim to be sophisticated enough to always figure out what might be the solution - and surely depending on if matters might be timely, or even if matters might be sufficiently backed up, then there could be some vulnerabilities in terms of losing access to funds with the passage of time if there might be questions of how to regain access to funds or were they "only accessible" through one kind of a device.. so sometimes, I become a bit concerned that folks, including myself, might end up putting ourselves into a position in which it becomes difficult to recover funds or that we might end up leaking data that we don't want to have leaked - and whether or not carrying multiple devices solves the problem or not (or even if we might be comfortable to change the kind of devices that we use), might be questionable because maybe some of us might feel that we need the same kind of device in order to load our funds on the other end of going from one point to another point in which we might be searched.... and maybe question if we have enough information to load the replacement device, or if we are able to get the same kind of a device that we had in the new jurisdiction (or if we need to have the same kind of a device on the other end), or even question if our own security might have become too good in which we lock ourselves out of our own funds or we are trying to accomplish transactions that are beyond our own technical capabilities.. which also can be scary in terms of how much we might feel that we want to or have time to "experiment" carrying one kind of a device versus another kind of a device.

Please let's stay on-topic (Foundation Passport)...

I may well need to shut up then, even though personally, I consider that weighing the various features of various wallets and/or devices can help a person to decide if it might be worth the potential time invested to actually purchase one device or another and if s/he finds a possible current use case for such device, over other ways that s/he might be currently carrying and transmitting value in one place versus another.. including when traveling there sometimes can be some uncertainties regarding how to get from one location to another (and if opsec might be questioned) and then when getting on the other end whether access to such device might be available or even needed to access funds... ..for example, I am pretty sure that this will work on the other end, and if it will not work, then am I going to need to go back (am I able to go back) to the earlier location.

[Welsh]

To be fair, most hardware wallets somewhat resemble either those metal wallets you put your credit cards in or PDA devices. So, it shouldn't draw too much attention. However, I'm not one for carrying hardware wallets out in the open, so I guess it's not much of an issue. At least, not the main one. I guess having a hot wallet in a hardware wallet could potentially work, and draw attention.

Although, I step out every day with a wallet, debit card, and all that. So, I'm just as at risk. As long as you aren't carrying your hardware wallet with all your Bitcoin in it, and you take one that's got a small amount meant for spending or emergencies, it's the same as carrying fiat with you. Every day people see you carry fiat, and for the most part it remains safe.

[Pmalek]

My question is what happens with Passport if it falls on ground   because I have a bad habit of dropping things, phones, etc.
Did anyone conduct any testing, even accidental drop test?

You could be the first one to do it. Get a sponsor who will purchase you the test models that you will drop in exchange for your signature space. Then conduct a fair and controlled experiment.

Although, I don't see the Passport or ColdCard as the favorites to win here. The bigger and heavier the device, the less chance it will have to survive. Trezor and Ledger would probably win here. Ledger's metal cap would maybe fall off but I think the wallet would remain functional. I don't think the credit card-looking gadgets should be part of the experiment.   

[foundationdvcs]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to let you know that we've created an official Foundation account and topic for Batch 2 here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5441422.0

Thank you so much for the detailed and in-depth review, n0nce, and for driving such high-signal discussion in this thread!