How safe are offline wallets?

[Ultegra134]

~Snipped~

I actually meant Ledger Nano (S Plus), but I confused both names and combined them into one. I've seen both devices, and during the Black Friday sale, they were a great bargain. An approximate of 50–60 euros isn't a big deal when it comes to protecting your funds and is far safer and more economical than a completely independent computer that is guaranteed to eventually be used for something else too. I'm looking forward to a possible promotion during the Christmas holidays and seeing if there are any decent deals. If not, I'll just purchase it at full price; it isn't that expensive.

I've noticed that Trezor and Ledger are the most common ones; are there any others that can compete with them?

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[sheenshane]

I've noticed that Trezor and Ledger are the most common ones; are there any others that can compete with them?

Yes, there is and you can find it here.  [BIG LIST] Hardware wallets (80+)
You can see the price, supported currencies, and the review.

Always find a legitimate store or an official reseller online store,

• https://trezor.io/resellers
• https://www.ledger.com/reseller

[Pmalek]

I've noticed that Trezor and Ledger are the most common ones; are there any others that can compete with them?

There is a long list of hardware wallet manufacturers but Trezor and Ledger are surely the two most popular and most sold brands in this industry.

Ledger has had it's problems in recent years, particularly with the data leaks and battery issues with the Nano X. The Nano S Plus doesn't have an internal battery, so if that is your choice, you don't need to worry about that. You should know that all Nano HWs are closed-source due to the firmware and secure element chips found in them. That's a big no-go for many people, so take that into account when you make your decision. But all of that hasn't stopped Ledger to take 1st place as the world's most sold hardware wallet. They have superior marketing compared to the competition.

Trezor on the other hand is completely open-source. One reason for that is because they don't have a secure element component like Ledger. If they had, they wouldn't be. That makes the device a little more vulnerable to physical attacks if the culprit knows that they are doing. Trezor wallets have been hacked in the past where attackers have successfully gotten PIN codes and seeds extracted. Those vulnerabilities can't be resolved, but they can be mitigated. If you plan on buying a Trezor, it's recommended to extend your seed with a passphrase and use a secret code stored on a Micro SD card in case of the Trezor T. Trezor knows about this and they are working on a new type of hardware wallet that will be equipped with an almost open-source SE and be designed to once and for all get rid of the mentioned seed extraction vulnerability.

Yes, there is and you can find it here.  [BIG LIST] Hardware wallets (80+)

That list is too big and can be confusing. It also entails HWs that most people haven't even heard of. If you got rid of 90% of the names listed there, it would still be too much.

Here are 3 threads that are better in my opinion:
Open Source Hardware Wallets
AirGapped Hardware Wallets
*Will Hardware Wallet Manufacturers Leak Customer’s Email Data?

* The point of this one is something totally different. I am suggesting it because in the OP there is a list of some of the more popular and known brands.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Buying a new computer was already on the schedule, but honestly, completely isolating it isn't always possible, and in my case, it probably isn't, because a functioning laptop is always handy.

But if you are buying a new one because your old one is getting very slow as you said above, then surely your old one then becomes the perfect candidate for an airgapped wallet? You don't need it anymore once everything is transferred to your new one, and the fact that the hardware is outdated is irrelevant for running something as simple as an airgapped Electrum wallet. You can format it and load any lightweight Linux distro to keep hardware demands to an absolutely minimum, and then the only piece of software you need to install on top of that is Electrum itself. Plus if it's an old device you aren't going to use anyway, then there are no issues with you opening it up and removing the WiFi module.

[Ultegra134]

~Snipped~

Thank you for your extremely detailed response. It contains a great deal of information that I wouldn't find otherwise. Based on the information you've provided, I'd go for Trezor, as it sounds like a safer option. I'll look into others as well, but I'm mostly heading towards Trezor. It's interesting to notice how much hardware wallets have increased in price since the creation of that thread.

But if you are buying a new one because your old one is getting very slow as you said above, then surely your old one then becomes the perfect candidate for an airgapped wallet? You don't need it anymore once everything is transferred to your new one, and the fact that the hardware is outdated is irrelevant for running something as simple as an airgapped Electrum wallet. You can format it and load any lightweight Linux distro to keep hardware demands to an absolutely minimum, and then the only piece of software you need to install on top of that is Electrum itself. Plus if it's an old device you aren't going to use anyway, then there are no issues with you opening it up and removing the WiFi module.

My main concern is that it's not that slow to render it unused. It's a 2013 refurbished laptop, but it runs quite decently for its age. It really depends on what I do. If I end up buying a desktop, I'll still need the laptop when I'm away. On the other hand, if I end up buying another laptop, then it could be used as an airgapped device.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's interesting to notice how much hardware wallets have increased in price since the creation of that thread.

Hasn't the price of everything? Lol.

It really depends on what I do. If I end up buying a desktop, I'll still need the laptop when I'm away. On the other hand, if I end up buying another laptop, then it could be used as an airgapped device.

Fair enough. A good argument for a hardware wallet instead then. You could always wait another 9 years until your next new computer and then use your old old one as an airgapped wallet.

[Pmalek]

Thank you for your extremely detailed response. It contains a great deal of information that I wouldn't find otherwise. Based on the information you've provided, I'd go for Trezor, as it sounds like a safer option. I'll look into others as well, but I'm mostly heading towards Trezor. It's interesting to notice how much hardware wallets have increased in price since the creation of that thread.

Good choice. Trezor has been around for ages and their Trezor One is the first ever hardware wallet. Putting aside the design fault I talked about previously, it's still a great keeper of your private keys if you spend some more time to secure it. If you are only thinking of keeping BTC on it, you can install the Bitcoin-only firmware. You don't even have to go for the more expensive T model. Model T supports Shamir's Secret Sharing, more altcoins, and some more modern features. 

I personally like what Foundation Devices is doing with their Passport HW, but for me, it's still a relatively new device. I think they only sold a few thousand devices in total compared to Trezor that sold 2 millions or Ledger with 5. Ledger and Trezor have surely been scrutinized much more and have had more eyes checking up on them than Passport has. That alone is enough for me to wait a little bit before storing any serious coins onto a Passport.

Before I get attacked with the Foundation is open-source and you can check everything responses, no I can't. I can't check the code, and neither can many of those who use that argument. I am not talking about verifying the builds and ensuring the codebase is identical to what is publicly available, or using Wallet Scrutiny for the job. Everyone can do that by following a set of instructions. I am talking about sitting down and going through the code and understanding what it does. Since many can't do that, we rely on others who can. We hope and trust they did a good job.

I recently posted an article where researchers claimed that it takes on average a year to fix vulnerabilities in open-source software. Some previous examples have shown that faulty code was public for 800-1000 days before someone found out there were vulnerabilities and had them fixed. So If I have a choice of using a Trezor, released in 2013/2014, or a Passport, which came out in 2021 (I think), It's clear to me who the favorite is. And it's clear to me which one has been out there longer, has been used more by the community, and has had all sorts of attack attempted against it.   

[Ultegra134]

~Snipped~

Thanks again for your detailed responses. I'm only interested in Bitcoin, thus the basic version of Trezor is more than enough, and quite affordable at the same time. I don't think there's any reason to look anywhere else, since Ledger and Trezor are the leading competitors. By the way, is it hard to set them up?

It's interesting to notice how much hardware wallets have increased in price since the creation of that thread.

Hasn't the price of everything? Lol.

It really depends on what I do. If I end up buying a desktop, I'll still need the laptop when I'm away. On the other hand, if I end up buying another laptop, then it could be used as an airgapped device.

Fair enough. A good argument for a hardware wallet instead then. You could always wait another 9 years until your next new computer and then use your old old one as an airgapped wallet.

Of course it has, it just surprised me how cheap they actually were back then. I actually bought my laptop two years ago, but it's a refurbished machine dating back to 2013, bought it dirt cheap during Covid. 

[Pmalek]

By the way, is it hard to set them up?

No. Keep in mind that hardware wallets are intended to be a good combination of convenience and security, so everything is quite self-explanatory and created for beginners to understand. I don't have a Trezor, but the onboarding process shouldn't be that different from that of Ledger.

You generate a seed, make backups of it, enter the words into the device to test if you wrote them down correctly, and that part is done. Trezor One generates 12-word seeds by default, Ledger generates 24-word seeds for its HWs. One thing that is interesting is that with the Trezor One, the seed words are entered into the software application and not the hardware device itself. With Trezor T and all Ledger wallets, that's not the case. I am not particularly fond of that process, but what can you do.

After that, you need to select a PIN and confirm it. The PIN is used every time you connect the device to your PC to unlock it.
The Trezor Suite should then give you an option to create a standard or a hidden account. The hidden account requires a passphrase. If you remember my post above, I suggested it's recommended to set up at least one passphrase for your Trezor to increase your security.

Before you send any money to your Trezor, make sure you wrote down your seed words correctly. Generate a BTC address and save it somewhere. Then reset your device, recover it from seed, and check if you still get the same address in the same account that you saved earlier. They must match. Alternatively, you can send some pocket change to it and then send it back to a wallet outside of Trezor just to check everything is working as it should. Once that is done, you move the bigger bags of your BTC to your HW.   

[dkbit98]

I've noticed that Trezor and Ledger are the most common ones; are there any others that can compete with them?

There are many other hardware wallets and I would say they more advantage compared to this two devices.
If you want true offline wallet than you should go for airgapped options like Passport and Keystone, they are open source and they don't have any cable connection with computers.
I believe that Keystone still have big discounts around 30% to 40%, and that is one of the best deals for hardware wallets I ever saw.
I created topic Open Source Hardware Wallets and you can find more information there.

Thanks again for your detailed responses. I'm only interested in Bitcoin, thus the basic version of Trezor is more than enough, and quite affordable at the same time.

Passport is Bitcoin only hardware wallet, and Kestone have the option to choose Bitcoin only firmware or multi.coin firmware.
I think that Trezor also added option to use it only for storing Bitcoin, and ledger will never do this because they live from shitcoins.