To those who do not care about their privacy. Why?

[LoyceV]

You get to choose whether you want to have enhanced privacy or not.

For most people reading this, it's probably too late already. Since I started with Bitcoin, I kept my real identity away from my online identity. But still, I wish I would have been more thorough, such as using Tor by default. Once your privacy is compromised, you'll never get it back.

But we have all been pretty much brainwashed to believe having privacy is wrong.

In my experience, exercising your right to privacy in real life is generally considered to be a nuisance. It makes you the exception, while it should be the other way around. Most people are so used to it, they don't even understand how dumb it is to say "I have nothing to hide". If everyone would value their privacy, social media wouldn't exist.

1. Modern culture, everyone really want to flex their wealth in front of anyone, they want to get respect and get a lot friends that also rich.

That's not my experience. In many cases, "flexing their wealth" is more like faking their wealth.

You either have financial privacy and avoid taxes to an extent, or let them know your activity and pay them the respective amount.

That's actually a danger to crypto owners: I am required to report my finances to taxes, but the tax agency doesn't log which of their employees access what data.

[1713539916]

1713539916

[BlackHatCoiner]

Except there are a lot of people doing work for cash, largest tax evasions happen in the nucleus of politics and banking and the more you get to be monitored and questioned, the more we are moving towards a dystopian world nobody wants to live in.

I didn't say that the largest money laundering comes from cashless societies. It is well known that the largest commercial banks are the root causes of money laundering.

Your Government wakes up tomorrow with the intent to prevent domestic abuse.

The reason this hasn't happened yet is because my fellow citizens (who're eligible to elect) don't want it either, and the elected party ought to follow the voters' desires. I'm pretty sure that if we had no problem to have a spying drone outside our houses, like we live in China, the government would be the first to proceed to that implementation.

See the Switzerland banking scandal from last year when everyone was pretending nobody knew politicians and billionaires are using Switzerland as a gateway to tax evasion and money laundering.

Recent scandal: FTX. A private company was taking users assets, donating them to the democratic party which collects taxes to fund the war of Ukraine, the country which partners with FTX. Money laundering 101.

That's actually a danger to crypto owners: I am required to report my finances to taxes, but the tax agency doesn't log which of their employees access what data.

What does the tax agency knows about LoyceV?

[Welsh]

Well, that doesn't work in practice. If it's possible to avoid taxation, you will, and even if you choose to not avoid it, the government is definitely not going to be content with it. You either have financial privacy and avoid taxes to an extent, or let them know your activity and pay them the respective amount.

The "nothing to hide" argument might seem cunningly intrusive to personal freedom, but that's the treatment which backs taxation by; force. If you don't pay your taxes, you're going to eat breakfast with a police officer one morning. Therefore, anyone who wants some privacy is likely a suspect from a government's point of view. Criminals take innocent people with them.

Complete privacy is almost completely impossible in the internet age. However, I do think there's being responsible about your privacy, as well as being a law abiding citizen. I for one don't mind paying taxes, it's going to something I care about, the NHS, and various other things, but mostly the NHS. I understand that other countries don't have something like that, and therefore it's harder to justify it, but as long as taxes are spent well there really shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, they're mostly never spent well, and that's including the NHS funding.

That said, I don't avoid taxes for a reason, because I want to be a law abiding citizen, and don't mind compromising a certain amount of my privacy for something that is suppose to go to public funding. While you have to reveal how much you've earned in a year, you can still maintain certain levels of privacy outside of that. Basically, my rule of thumb is privacy against the government is virtually impossible, and most people probably accept that. However, Bitcoin does allow you to maintain your privacy from third parties like banks, exchanges, and what not. Those are the more likely to use your information maliciously. The government, are pretty much happy as long as you pay your taxes, which I'm personally okay about, however I will admit most people I talk to complain about it. I think that's the general consensus.

However, I wouldn't have the same confidence with trusting my sensitive information with third parties, and exchanges. That's where that level of trust vanishes. However, I can't, and won't advocate using cryptocurrency for avoiding taxation.  

At least taxes are for public funding. If people were really concerned about their privacy, they'd never leave their country, they'd never have a ID, and they wouldn't put fingerprints on their phone just to quicken the process. Most people are oblivious to privacy, and even the minority that advocate privacy, you find still compromise it for convenience. For example, people that want holidays, have to have their picture, and fingerprints taken at the airport. That's just something that people accept.

That's actually a danger to crypto owners: I am required to report my finances to taxes, but the tax agency doesn't log which of their employees access what data.

Isn't that a danger to all? Since, employees could effectively use your information for whatever reason they intend to use it. I don't think that's exclusively a cryptocurrency problem. There probably should be more scrutiny on who has access to the data, but then wouldn't we complain that more logging would be taking place to prevent that?

[franky1]

your identity information is out there. governments had it since you were born (birth certificates)

bitcoin does not ask for this information..

but how about instead of crying about businesses that have your information because you gave it to them when you signed up to their service. .. instead think about making a new way for people to verify their ID

EG your parents form a multisig address, where the address becomes "you"
much like how block9 coin reward address became "satoshi"

you then can signmessages to prove ID control. which then stops any ID fraud because those trying to use your address cant sign for it

EG asking CSW to prove 'satoshi' by signing an address. he cant so yep he is not satoshi

give the ID network some protocols and rules. such as if you give your ID to a business. you sign a messages allowing them usage. where they can validate their usage to your address without needing your seedkey
(they have a message giving authority+signature)

if others use your ID. but you do not authorise their use. simply asking for them to show the signature and message authorising them. and when they cant. boom sue them.

you can then monitise it by selling access to your signatured messages of authorisation

code can do wonderful things. use it make, it commonly used and break the cycle of ID abuse

note there a infinite ways of making a ID network that can allow/resrict other parties from using your public ID. i just gave a most basic of all example

[LoyceV]

What does the tax agency knows about LoyceV?

I don't know. Luckily, they're not very efficient, so chances are that stops them from collecting too much information.

Isn't that a danger to all? Since, employees could effectively use your information for whatever reason they intend to use it. I don't think that's exclusively a cryptocurrency problem.

"This guy has money on a Swiss bank account" makes him less of a target than "this guy has money that can't be frozen".

There probably should be more scrutiny on who has access to the data, but then wouldn't we complain that more logging would be taking place to prevent that?

The logging should be for their own employees, not the rest of the population.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I understand that other countries don't have something like that, and therefore it's harder to justify it, but as long as taxes are spent well there really shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, they're mostly never spent well, and that's including the NHS funding.

I don't have a right to change to what they're being spent to. I'm not at the state budget's office. I don't get to choose who's going to be at that position, I'm only presented some choices, and I get to vote for whom I believe is capable of choosing wisely who to hire.

However, I do know one thing; spending money that isn't yours is prone to be done recklessly. It requires less caution to spend somebody else's money for their own good, than it is to spend your money for your good, and is therefore more likely to act inefficiently and improperly for the others. Evading taxes, in that case, is reasonable, whenever possible with minimum risk.

That's just my perspective.

[coupable]

But I am very conscious there are a lot of you out here who simply do not give a damn.  Which begs the question for me, why is it that you do not give a single damn about your own privacy when using Bitcoin?  Why not protect yourself in front of all sorts of attacks if you have the chance to do so?  Also.  What do you think about us, who try their hardest to 'hide'?  Do you think we are suspicious or are you perfectly fine with our way of living?  Do you think the number of criminals is larger where there are more privacy enthusiasts?

People cannot get rid of the banking culture, where they always think that their personal data is in safe hands, or that they do not care about that data as long as their savings are safe. When the use is popular, do not expect to find everyone preferring Bitcoin because it gives more privacy, but only because it can be used instead of money and provides an available investment. These same people are the ones who save large amounts of crypto on trading platforms and do not have the courage to be responsible for their money in private wallets.

[Welsh]

I don't have a right to change to what they're being spent to. I'm not at the state budget's office. I don't get to choose who's going to be at that position, I'm only presented some choices, and I get to vote for whom I believe is capable of choosing wisely who to hire.

However, I do know one thing; spending money that isn't yours is prone to be done recklessly. It requires less caution to spend somebody else's money for their own good, than it is to spend your money for your good, and is therefore more likely to act inefficiently and improperly for the others. Evading taxes, in that case, is reasonable, whenever possible with minimum risk.

That's just my perspective.

Yeah, I do understand I think it's been quite well documented in pretty much every country that taxes aren't always spent well. I've always suggested that people to get to choose where their taxes go. However, the problem you have then is more people will pick healthcare, and no one will pick bin collectors, so within a month everyone's bin will be overflowing. That's just an example. As much as I would like to see taxes being spent wisely, I think most people are to set in their ways to actually think about splitting up their taxes contribution, and picking the services that they don't deem as vital as others.

So, I would agree that taxation, and the way it's spent definitely has to be improved upon. I still personally don't think that's a reason to avoid it. Since, while it might be being mismanaged it's still contributing to society. I'm quite passionate about the National Health Service, and I've actually been called a communist for that funnily enough . The NHS is a socialist idea, and therefore requires everyone to contribute, taxation is similar. Now, I know the NHS is grossly mismanaged, and therefore my taxes are being horribly misspent (probably intentionally to move to private healthcare), but this doesn't prevent me wanting to contribute. I want it to be improved definitely, just like with taxation.

Would you be more comfortable with taxes if they were spent correctly? Or is it mainly a privacy thing? Since, I see those at separate issues. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for privacy, and I'm a big advocate for it. Especially, when it comes to not relying on third parties like banks, and all that which fiat basically forces you too. However, I do think compromises need to be made, and I'm not against compromising on certain things.

The thing is we don't live in a perfect world, so even if the government anonymised tax collection to an extent, people would just abuse it, and that's the sad reality of our lives these days. Socialist concepts are being labelled as communist, and people helping out others is practically vanished when it comes to finances. 

[Obari]

It took me so much time to read this topic and readying it twice was worth it.
Everyone truly wants privacy especially in a county like mine where every young and excelling youth is tag a criminal ad been molested by the security agency (police) who is supposed to be protecting it's citizens.
It now seems like almost a taboo for a young young to be rich or living comfortably without any physical source of income as everyone earning a living online is been tagged a criminal or a possible scammer.
I'm also a strong advocate and privacy enthusiast but most time I can't speak about this in my neighborhood because you'll seem suspicious and people might start tagging you with negativity and that's why most times we act as if we don't care about our privacy but deep down, we truly care about our privacy.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Since, while it might be being mismanaged it's still contributing to society. I'm quite passionate about the National Health Service

I haven't lived in a regime of completely free enterprise, and I don't know how would that work for stuff such as education and health care. Free enterprise is known to be working more effectively and efficiently than the state, because the "invisible hand", as Adam Smith had named, is always one step forward than a single entity, and it is impossible for that entity to know everything. I don't want poor people to not have access to those two, but studies have shown that what's keeping them poor is the bureaucracy that's supposed to do good to them.

It's always a matter of sincerity and result in the end. I don't question some left-wing politicians' sincerity, which is to thrive social equality, but that never happens! In fact, there isn't one time in history I've known that introduction of bureaucracy, which involved free market regulation, didn't result in social inequality overtime.

Would you be more comfortable with taxes if they were spent correctly?

Taxes are spent correctly according to one group, and incorrectly according to another. I'm not saying we shouldn't pay taxes at all, but the more the taxes each party introduces, the more the chances to be recklessly spent. I'd be comfortable if we lowered the government spending by a lot, for stuff such as energy, national defense, and basically everything that includes bureaucracy which rises operation costs, and makes things more opaque to work.

[aysg76]

I get that, and of course people are free to completely give up their privacy for some tiny convenience or so they can show their friends pictures of their Starbucks coffee or some other stupid reason if they choose. But it needs to be an informed choice. And it never is.

Every centralized exchange buries somewhere in their Terms of Use that they know >99% don't read the small print in confusing legal language about your data being confidential and only disclosed with selected third parties under certain provisions. If these exchanges instead put in plain language on their sign up page "Your data will be shared with a bunch of complete strangers for regulatory reasons, sold to a bunch more third parties just because we can, and almost certainly leaked or hacked at some point in the future", then perhaps people would think twice about completing KYC. If all the people who bleat the nonsense "Well, I've got nothing to hide" were instead shown the results of people going bankrupt because of identity theft and having their lives ruined, they would think twice. People who give up their privacy freely are very rarely informed about the risks they are taking, precisely because large companies like Binance, Coinbase, Amazon, Facebook, etc. thrive on people not understanding these risks and handing over their data.

People are actually not serious about their privacy and have false belief that these exchange or centralised services just need to have your documents in order to compile with the AML policies and other nonsense they come up with in order to fool people.They submit their documents and get their funds and that's it they are happy without even realising the fact they have completely compromised their security with it.

You are right on the part that these exchanges have small points and breakpoint that users don't pay attention to while signing up there and also submit documents through KYC process but these data stores and then handed over to governments in order to keep track of your activity and on dark web to be utilised in illicit activities and is that fine with people? They are actually taking it on a very funny note that it's the process and you have to go through it without even realising how dangerous it could be for them.

The word privacy don't have any meaning for them because they are not even analysing the risk of taking their funds over these CEX so what else security we can expect from them and big data companies and government are taking advantage of it with their data.

[AicecreaME]

Most people do care about their privacy, but they don't know if they have some privacy if they are doing something on the internet or maybe some really doesn't care at all. Some people are too confident that they are safe as long as they are not doing any shady things in the internet, but that's not the case. All of us are not safe in the internet if we're not aware about possible things that could happen if we are not going to be careful, like randomly clicking links, deep diving in the dark web without proper knowledge and skills to stay anonymous, etc...

Fiat doesn't have any security at all, compare to cryptocurrency, that is why I love to store Bitcoin rather than fiat because it is more convenient and has a lot more value than fiat itself.

[franky1]

due to laws like the bank secrecies act*.
you have no privacy when using currency..

*which is what allows financial services/exchanges to gather information on customers and look for suspicious activity and report it to governments.

due to property laws*
your a slave to a businesses policy

* businesses are the property of the business owner. and the business owner has full rights over what they allow and disallow when it comes to their property. dont enter/use the business if you dont like the terms. but atleast know the terms to know what your getting into

what people need to do is learn these basic stuff that have existed far before we were all born. and instead of crying that its a fight.. instead USE the laws to OUR advantage

disrupt the norm
much like how Uber disrupted the taxi cab regulations

when bitcoin was lobbied to be classified as a currency in 2013-14 that "mainstreaming" promotion was actually the gate opening to allow the SEC in

yep before 2014 exchanges were not money transmitters. they were treated like merchants/auction houses/ retailers selling a good/product/property

we could lobby again to re classify bitcoin back to being a property. where we gain more control over the system and its utility and control.

as for the businesses that have policies that upon deposit the coins become theirs and its at business discretion what they allow users to do inside their service.. or not allow them to do.. set up new businesses that in policy treat customers fairly with easy to read terms which are in aid of the customer not against the customer

[BlackHatCoiner]

The word privacy don't have any meaning for them because they are not even analysing the risk of taking their funds over these CEX so what else security we can expect from them and big data companies and government are taking advantage of it with their data.

I think the reasons they don't care are two:

• They have already submitted KYC to some other financial service.
• They don't know that DEX exist.

But, think about it. If you've already handed over tons of personal documents and information to institutions like Revolut, Paypal, bank(s) etc., then what's so bad with adding another one in the list?

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Just as earlier said about many people coming into the crypto space without giving a damn about privacy, because to me, this could only be cause as a result of two main factors, that is, ignorance, wrong attitude and not knowing how it feels like living a private crypto life, because to most people, in as much as they are making a decent profit, they forget about the importance of privacy, which is what Bitcoin offers, especially to those who uses decentralized exchanges which required no KYC

[o_e_l_e_o]

But, think about it. If you've already handed over tons of personal documents and information to institutions like Revolut, Paypal, bank(s) etc., then what's so bad with adding another one in the list?

For the exact reason you outlined in your earlier response: Separate identities.

As much as I preach about all things privacy and against ever completing KYC, I also admit I have a bank account. To have a bank account, I've completed KYC with the bank. It is entirely logical, as you point out, to want to keep my banking activities separate from my bitcoin activities, and just because I've completed KYC with a bank does not mean there is zero additional risk to completing KYC with a crypto exchange. On the contrary - go and do a quick web search to see how many major banks have leaked scans of their customers' passports or similar. Not that many. But when it comes to centralized exchange, there is a new leak or hack pretty much every week, if not more.

But even considering if you are already KYCed on one more CEXs - every time you complete KYC on another CEX you take on ever more risk. You expose your documents to more people, have them duplicated on more servers, and give them a bigger attack surface.

[buwaytress]

I hope this isn't unrelated (I almost want to say this could be one reason not to care, if this is a reverse play on the privacy game), but this is something I've been doing for a while. And I'm not sure it helps, I certainly know it makes me feel safer that in a world where I have to identify or verify myself, in some cases, I provide information that actually obscures, rather than exposes me.

e.g. several email identities, several birthdates, usernames, some never important, some location identities, all purposely fed to different browsers, different Google trackers.

And sometimes, it even helps me to see who's tracking what. An ad to my email that came from a VPN I used last week. Spam to my ethereum address that I entered on some list. Phishing taking on the guise of an online service. Even someone wishing me happy birthday on this forum recently (of course it's not the right date, or is it? haha).

Opens my eyes to who tracks me, what they track me for, and perhaps more importantly, multiple reminders of why my privacy is important and what's out there to identify and possibly harm me later.

I do care a lot about my privacy, so even when I'm forced to identify, I do all I can to satisfy the requirement without actually exposing what truly pins me down.

[The Cryptovator]

A few people are aware of privacy in crypto, a few people are forced to breach privacy, and a few people are simply unaware of what privacy in crypto is. We are sometimes forced to breach privacy, such as when using centralized exchange. You may say that you do not use centralized exchange, but there are many factors involved. We do not find all tokens in Dex, and there is a liquidity issue. I am aware that some people strictly protect their privacy. But it's also a matter of experience.

[BITCOIN4X]

Just as earlier said about many people coming into the crypto space without giving a damn about privacy, because to me, this could only be cause as a result of two main factors, that is, ignorance, wrong attitude and not knowing how it feels like living a private crypto life, because to most people, in as much as they are making a decent profit, they forget about the importance of privacy, which is what Bitcoin offers, especially to those who uses decentralized exchanges which required no KYC

Don't ever think that everyone who enters this crypto space is using bitcoin as a means of payment, investing or trading. Actually bitcoin is not the only reason why they are here, and the most popular reason is because they want to make profit by trading and investing in crypto.

Most of them will be offered to trade on centralized and reputable exchanges regardless if they are local or international exchanges. But when they are able to understand something right, then a decentralized exchange is recommended. KYC is unavoidable due to government regulations but I would never think it's the biggest mistake if actually they only do it in one centralized exchange. The worst thing about privacy failure is when users here are willing to give KYC on some failed bounty projects and do a lot of KYC on various other centralized service platforms non reputable.

[Ultegra134]

I honestly don't know how to explain my stand regarding privacy. As PrivacyG already mentioned in their initial post, I agree with all the points regarding our personal privacy stated in the second paragraph. However, for some reason, I'm not too bothered regarding the privacy of my cryptocurrency funds in general. I've never used a Bitcoin mixer and I'm not planning to anytime soon. Anyone can easily see how much BTC I own, and that address can easily be traced back to my BTT account.

On top of that, I've also submitted all necessary information in my Binance account, which holds a relatively decent sum of money. I later realized that this was a mistake, since any money can be easily traced back to me and be subject to questions on its acquisition. On the one hand, I acknowledge that it's probably not the best option, but on the other hand, I'm not bothered to change it. Perhaps I'm way too comfortable with that idea, thinking that nothing unfortunate will happen to me (identity theft, FTX incident, etc.).